Best Rod Blank for Ulua Shorefishing

[CapeFish]

Cor, my first impression was that everything you say is correct.  I just need to devote the time to it.  Can't cast left handed either.

Jeri, that sounds like a business opportunity for someone.

-steve

Consider adding mags to your reel till you get the hang of the left hand on the bottom and slowly adjust them as you get better. You really don't need to be a 6ft tall ball of muscle to be able to cast a long, stiff rod and 7-8 oz sinker with reel at the bottom and the correct technique. Start with an off the ground cast till you get the hang of it. A longer sinker drop does a lot to tame a fast rod.

[cbar45]

steelfish,

I'm curious as to what type of fish you plan on targeting via slide-bait?

The reason I ask is because slide-baiting--when used to fish for shark or GT--is usually reserved for heavy tackle using very large baits of 2-3lbs. or more that can't otherwise be cast.

well in my case its just as to try a new technique that has its advantages over the normal surfcasting rig.

after asking in other Surf fishing forum we agree that you will never reach the same distance if casting ONLY a 6oz / 8oz lead like when you go training powercast, OTG, etc, against a real fishing day when casting a 6oz lead + 4oz fishhead or chunk, the aerodinamic law hit you there and lower your distance considerably.

considering that I normally fish from rocks (not high riffs or high rocks like some places in hawaii) I have on my list to try casting 6oz lead and slide a big chunk of meat and see how it works or try live bait too.

my go to rod its a fenwick 10ft 3oz lure, with that rod I can get any of the fish that you can catch on the surf here, not shark or big rays, tho.
the RS rod was bought to go after roosterfish on summer but they not always come to this zones on the north of Baja, the nearest sure zone to go after roosterfish is at 12hrs drive south at La Paz, Baja sur so, not much action for the RS rod lately, I want to try new techniques to keep it busy.

Thanks for your reply steelfish. It's good to see people interested in trying out--and perhaps adapting--new techniques to suit their fishing styles/locale, while remaining humble of their own.

[Jeri]

Cor, my first impression was that everything you say is correct.  I just need to devote the time to it.  Can't cast left handed either.

Jeri, that sounds like a business opportunity for someone.

-steve

There are a number of our rods in the uSA as we speak, one in California, one in Texas and another on the way to New Jersey. Discussions on going for one to another corner. The concept of using 'reel down' with either spinner or convensional reels just makes senxe when looking for distance. Just today, testing a new blank and design system, dropping 3oz sinkers to about 130-140 metres over sand. That is just with a short rod, only 12' long, when I get the long rod out for heavier stuff, 6oz and 7oz sinkers are dropping beyong 150-160 metres, and it is basically all down to the designs of the rods and technique, nothing to do with power or body strength, as I'm over 60, and not exactly big built - 140lbs WET!

The point is that during the cast process, the weight of the reel is being pulled down by left arm power and gravity - rather than 'reel up' position, where the caster is wasting power - pushing the reel up through the cast. Small changes make big differences.

Cheers from sunny Africa

Jeri

[cbar45]

quote author=Jeri link=topic=9734.msg190442#msg190442 date=1463674478]


There are a number of our rods in the uSA as we speak, one in California, one in Texas and another on the way to New Jersey. Discussions on going for one to another corner. The concept of using 'reel down' with either spinner or convensional reels just makes senxe when looking for distance. Just today, testing a new blank and design system, dropping 3oz sinkers to about 130-140 metres over sand. That is just with a short rod, only 12' long, when I get the long rod out for heavier stuff, 6oz and 7oz sinkers are dropping beyong 150-160 metres, and it is basically all down to the designs of the rods and technique, nothing to do with power or body strength, as I'm over 60, and not exactly big built - 140lbs WET!

The point is that during the cast process, the weight of the reel is being pulled down by left arm power and gravity - rather than 'reel up' position, where the caster is wasting power - pushing the reel up through the cast. Small changes make big differences.

Cheers from sunny Africa

Jeri

I understand how some might find it advantageous to cast low-reel while fishing.

I've even built a pair of low-reel rods, (not ulua rods but light surf rods), for my own use, as I was curious and found I could appreciate their benefits.

But, can you explain why both high and low-reel styles are represented in the tournament casting circuit--where pure distance is all that matters?

Are there instances when it's practical to switch to a high-reel style and vice versa? Or should anglers the world over convert to low-reel for all their casting needs, since it works so well for some locales?

This thread was about choosing a blank to slide bait for ulua in Hawaii. It would make sense that such a blank and methods discussed be centered aound that pupose. I would hate for someone to fork over $450 for a custom low-mount slide bait rod--because they read on the internet it was a superior choice--then arrive in the islands and find their new setup is a misery to use on the high rocks.

[cbar45]

What I find interesting is that US fly rods in all the big brands are cutting edge technology and usually lightning fast, especially the saltwater fly rods which are paired with ultra modern large arbor fly reels, but it seems others facets of shore based angling still prefer to use floppy rods with not the best casting reels and would even still consider using fiber glass rods instead of carbon? Why is this? Or do the folks on AT just generally prefer older tackle and I am getting a warped view?

No idea where the heck you are going with this.

Last I checked this thread was titled "Best Rod Blank for Ulua Shorefishing".

Specifically slide-baiting in Hawaii.

[Cor]

My last word on this and purely a quick opinion.

To cast well you need the following, in order of importance:-
1.   Skill, this involves more then just the ability to load the rod and release the weight properly.    The caster needs to obtain the maximum out of the various components.  Even a certain shape casting weight makes a difference.
2.   Rod, suited to your casting style, strength, & casting weight.
3.   Reel, with fairly light mono and strong leader.   I'll go with a magged reel, but I think a reel without any cast control device is probably better.  (a spinning reel would use braid)

I am not a competition dry caster, but note that there is a huge difference between standing on an open field with your feet properly planted and making a deliberate cast, against standing on an uneven surface, with slippery rocks or upward sloping ground behind you while keeping your one eye on approaching waves.

I think that "skill" is probably the most important component, therefore perhaps other factors including reel position, have a somewhat lesser impact.

I have never been able to cast more then 135 mt. without bait, regardless of what I tried but have seen some rather large guys in Namibia making longer casts, with bait!

For sliding they use a very stiff strong long rod that can cast a heavy grapnel weight a long way, again I am not a bait fisherman and have never tried it.

[cbar45]

Cor, thanks for your input.

I realize my last few posts may have sounded harsh, but god forbid someone reading this forum for advice show up on the cliffs with a full-on harness strapped to a low-mount 6/0. Will the persons who recommended that setup for ulua fishing take responsibility should the angler get pulled in?

For safety reasons, high reel positions on a slide-bait rod allow one to fight a large fish with the rod in the holder if needed. It also gives the angler opportunity to plant the rod butt in a crevice in the rocks for more leverage, or to rest during the fight while still maintaining control of the reel. Don't think there's a reducer made that's sturdy enough to take that kind of pressure.

There are other reasons that fall more under personal preference, but those two are the main ones why low-reel isn't as widely used here to slide-bait as it is elsewhere.

Chad

[Tightlines667]

That makes sense to me.

I have seen exceptions to the rod type, and setup for guys using kites, floats  (i.e. air filled trash bags), kayak, and drones to deploy their baits, when casting isn't the primary method used to deploy baits from shore.. but now I am digressing.

Although there has been some swaying here from the origional post topic, I think there is some good info here.  It's interesting to hear perspectives from different locals, and, and the styles of fishing, and associated gear used.

Good stuff, I say.

[Jeri]

Hi All,

The original posting was for information about blanks in the 13' range for casting for GTs. Later, it was added that sliding was the main method for use of the rod. Those were the only criteria by the original poster. Hawaii and rock platforms, and the need for accessories to facilitate 'tea breaks' were added by others.

What I have offered has been how we best effect sliding in a surf casting situation here in southern Africa, and to catch sharks and GT, depending on location. It does not mention full body harnesses for the angler, it does not mention that the angler needs to take 'tea breaks' during the fight, nor the need for a 6/0 reel, nor that low reel is the only way to go.

What I have suggested is that the composition of the blank needs to be very specific, with a softer tip to best effect sliding, stiff blanks pull out the sinker/grapnel during the sliding out of the bait. Longer rods have been found to be best in our locale for this method - some special designs even go up to 16' just for the sliding out of the bait, and then reduced to a more manageble 14' once the bait is set.

I will admit I haven't fished this style of fishing in Hawaii, but have offered a potential different perspective - "thinking outside the traditional box", so to speak, for comparable species. In our style of fishing from the shore, we don't take 'tea breaks' to rest, we continuously fight the fish, so there is no need to develop such accessories on the rod.

A point worth considering might be that if you don't ever look at how other folks have solved a similar problem, you might never evolve. Just saying that there is only one solution to a problem, will never advance our sport

I wasn't suggesting that the original poster should even think about a custom rod from Africa to fish in Hawaii, nor the price.

So, I would take a little exception to the tone of some replies. The style of rock platform fishing that has evolved in Hawaii, has obviously come about from local needs, but then I fish where the local phrase is "Africa is not for Sissies" - tough it out and hold the rod for the full duration of the fight!!!! Stand and fight the fish, with just a simple rod belt, no harness or monster reels.

In conclusion to the original posters requirements, I would suggest a Blue Marlin T/Flex 400/6  blank as first choice, with a Purglas 400/4 as second choice - in the scheme of the poll, they would be marked down as 'Other'.

Just my humble opinion to the original posters' request.

Cheers from sunny Africa.

Jeri

[CapeFish]

What I find interesting is that US fly rods in all the big brands are cutting edge technology and usually lightning fast, especially the saltwater fly rods which are paired with ultra modern large arbor fly reels, but it seems others facets of shore based angling still prefer to use floppy rods with not the best casting reels and would even still consider using fiber glass rods instead of carbon? Why is this? Or do the folks on AT just generally prefer older tackle and I am getting a warped view?

No idea where the heck you are going with this.

Last I checked this thread was titled "Best Rod Blank for Ulua Shorefishing".

Specifically slide-baiting in Hawaii.

Hi CBAR
Out of interest and just asking a question, it actually does have a lot of relevance to slide baiting in Hawaii and the similar point comes up time and time again on AT, so I have been intrigued why people are still suggesting fiber glass rods for slide fishing shore casting that's all. I have fished both and for many years and a carbon rod is vastly superior on both sand and rocks for slide fishing. Carbon out performance fiber glass in ease of casting, distance, weight, shaking out the slide etc. It wasn't meant to offend you. Cheers,

Leon

[cbar45]

Hi All,

The original posting was for information about blanks in the 13' range for casting for GTs. Later, it was added that sliding was the main method for use of the rod. Those were the only criteria by the original poster. Hawaii and rock platforms, and the need for accessories to facilitate 'tea breaks' were added by others.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the original poster--Tightlines666--IS LOCATED IN HAWAII where high cliffs and rock platforms are the norm for the Big Island. Those geographical features are encountered in select spots as well on all four other major islands--including the one on which Tightines666 resides. How then can you get on your high horse and call the method I described that works for fighting ulua here to be a "tea break"--if you don't even take the time to understand the style of fishing done, the challenges faced, and where, in fact, the original poster resides?


What I have offered has been how we best effect sliding in a surf casting situation here in southern Africa, and to catch sharks and GT, depending on location. It does not mention full body harnesses for the angler, it does not mention that the angler needs to take 'tea breaks' during the fight, nor the need for a 6/0 reel, nor that low reel is the only way to go.

I have no problem with you sharing your experiences fishing for sharks and ulua in Southern Africa. All fine and good, until you use those experiences to define the advice and recommendations you give--to someone who is fishing in an area markedly different than the beaches of South Africa. If you claim to call yourself a professional, then it is your responsibility to know when to dole out advice and when to keep it in check. Like I said, if someone new to Hawaii gets themselves or their loved ones hurt heeding your recommendations of using a low reel for slide-baiting here--then that is wholly on you. Tightlines666 has the experience and common sense to understand when an otherwise well-meant recommendation is probably not the best course of action to follow; a 13 year old child stoked on catching his first ulua in Hawaii may not have that depth of knowledge to draw from--and again if they get themselves hurt heeding what you've written, that again is on YOU.

What I have suggested is that the composition of the blank needs to be very specific, with a softer tip to best effect sliding, stiff blanks pull out the sinker/grapnel during the sliding out of the bait. Longer rods have been found to be best in our locale for this method - some special designs even go up to 16' just for the sliding out of the bait, and then reduced to a more manageble 14' once the bait is set.

In South Africa yes; but in Hawaii where the original poster resides, no. The wire bank sinkers we use to slide-bait here very rarely pull out since the bottom terrain at such spots--even on islands like Oahu and Maui--is not all sand, but a mixture of reef, rocks, and pockets of sand.

I will admit I haven't fished this style of fishing in Hawaii, but have offered a potential different perspective - "thinking outside the traditional box", so to speak, for comparable species. In our style of fishing from the shore, we don't take 'tea breaks' to rest, we continuously fight the fish, so there is no need to develop such accessories on the rod.

Great. So tell me again how does all that have bearing on the fishing challenges encountered in Hawaii, where the original poster resides? Are you just sharing your perspectives to flaunt your wisdom of what you believe is the best solution to challenges you don't even take the time to understand?


A point worth considering might be that if you don't ever look at how other folks have solved a similar problem, you might never evolve. Just saying that there is only one solution to a problem, will never advance our sport.

Where do you infer I said there was only one solution? And where in HI are the "similar problems" you speak of? No one here has need of wading far out in order to cast to the horizon for sharks, as do the anglers in SA. I mentioned I've built and fished a pair of light surf rods in the low-reel style, so I can understand the benefits they give in some situations--but not all--and definitely not for slide-baiting from the cliffs or rocks where the original poster resides. You, on the other hand, didn't even bother to answer the two questions I posed to you:

1. Are there any instances where it is practical to switch to a high-reel style and vice versa?
2. Can you explain why both high and low-reel styles are both represented in tournament casting--where only pure distance matters?

Blatantly disregarding the unique considerations of slide-baiting in Hawaii where Tightlines666 resides--and where others plan to visit--in order to push what seems to be your agenda on using long rods and low-reels, not only sets the sport back to the dark ages, but utterly destroys any trust someone just starting out fishing may have had for a so-called professional. Who the hell wants to evolve into that.

I wasn't suggesting that the original poster should even think about a custom rod from Africa to fish in Hawaii, nor the price.

So, I would take a little exception to the tone of some replies. The style of rock platform fishing that has evolved in Hawaii, has obviously come about from local needs, but then I fish where the local phrase is "Africa is not for Sissies" - tough it out and hold the rod for the full duration of the fight!!!! Stand and fight the fish, with just a simple rod belt, no harness or monster reels.



In conclusion to the original posters requirements, I would suggest a Blue Marlin T/Flex 400/6  blank as first choice, with a Purglas 400/4 as second choice - in the scheme of the poll, they would be marked down as 'Other'.

Just my humble opinion to the original posters' request.

Cheers from sunny Africa.

Jeri

[cbar45]

Hi CBAR
Out of interest and just asking a question, it actually does have a lot of relevance to slide baiting in Hawaii and the similar point comes up time and time again on AT, so I have been intrigued why people are still suggesting fiber glass rods for slide fishing shore casting that's all. I have fished both and for many years and a carbon rod is vastly superior on both sand and rocks for slide fishing. Carbon out performance fiber glass in ease of casting, distance, weight, shaking out the slide etc. It wasn't meant to offend you. Cheers,

Leon

Leon,

The Talon and IRW blanks I spoke of elsewhere in this thread are all graphite (carbon), both intermediate and high-modulus.

I really don't want to put words into the mouth of whoever it is you are saying is suggesting fiberglass. All I'll touch on is this:

1. The old 540 Sabre mentioned in the very beginning of this thread is far from "floppy", but really a powerful rod.

2. Some who prefer glass like its durability when fishing on lava and other rough terrain.

3. Some who prefer glass have a slower casting stroke, and thus appreciate its forgiveness.

4. Some do find it easier for them to fish a graphite blank--for all the reasons you described.

Hope it helps.

[Jeri]

Hi cbar45,

You have based a lot of what you have stated repeatedly on:

"Correct me if I'm wrong, but the original poster--Tightlines666--IS LOCATED IN HAWAII"

Which is not readily obvious from any posts until quite late in this discussion, and certainly not on 'Tightlines666' posting profile. High rock platforms, are not actually mentioned again until very late, by you. You perhaps need to read before you type, and check what information is available to the responders - as this is a global forum - the last time I checked???

You have criticised me for lack of local knowledge of this very specific fishery, but used generalisations about surf fishing in southern Africa to highlight your points. Which for your information and future benefit, are not just clean sandy beaches, but rock platforms as well, and not all fishing is done by wading, nor casting to the horizon, we also casting into rough terrain with frequency, as well as sand. Perhaps the better option to the 'shoot first, ask questions later' attitude; is to share the very specialist knowledge that you no doubt  have of this fishery, you might earn more respect.

The rest of your reply is just more of the same, and rather than engage in a protracted arguement, I will just answer the two specific questions that you have asked, out of politeness:

1. Are there any instances where it is practical to switch to a high-reel style and vice versa?

Plenty, though it is becoming more acceptable with long rod surf fishing, that control of the bottom end of the rod, while fighting larger fish, is safer on the angler to use 'reel down' combined with a simple rod belt. This manner of low reel fishing is becoming more widely accepted globally in surf circles, though some folks do prefer to stick with older traditional styles. Obviously in the very singular and unique situation of GT fishing in Hawaii, there is a case to answer. But, answer the question of how to realistically control a big fish on a rod built reel up and a long handle - without sticking the end in rock creavases, while still exerting up to 25lbs of drag through the long surf rod? Perhaps the answer is to control the bottom end with a simple rod belt?

2. Can you explain why both high and low-reel styles are both represented in tournament casting--where only pure distance matters?

Probably a case of proficiency, while the very upper level tournament casters as a rule achieve better results with low reel designs. It takes a mastery of slightly different skill set to cast with reel down, to those that the majority of casters first learn, which is reel up. Look to the vast majority of pictures and video of the likes of Danny Moeskops, and you will see your answer. Are you going to challenge his achievements of distance casting with the reel down? Let me answer that for you - NO, as he holds just about every distance record for tournament casting. There are also some very sound arguements based in physics which favour reel down as the more likely to induce more power into a long rod cast.

In closing, this has gone more than far enough, so please no need to reply to any of the above. I bow to your infinitely more intimate knowledge of surf fishing in Hawaii!

As it is getting late in Hawaii, might I suggest a small African tradition - of taking a sundowner. A long cool beverage of your choice to enjoy and relax, while watching the sun go down - to forget the stresses of the day.

Cheers from sunny Africa.

[cbar45]

Jeri, that long cool beverage was nice. I have nothing more to say save for this:

I am not the one from South Africa posting replies to a thread started elsewhere about the "Best Rod Blank for Ulua Shorefishing"

You are, and thus it is your duty to make sure you're on point--fully understanding and mentally acknowledging where each member is coming from with their questions and advice.

There were more than a few context clues early on which hinted at the thread being in reference to HI; I hope it's not the denseness of petty arrogance that led you to just go about typing what you wish--without first recognizing them.

I've been a member here for only a short while--but if you actually took some time--instead of assuming I'm shooting first/asking questions later--you would see that I have gladly shared information on the very topic this thread is based on, multiple times, elsewhere on the forum.

[Jeri]

Hi,

I've got a few hours before my 'sundowner'!!!

You talk of 'duty' to reply 'on point'. Sure later in the post there were direct references to Hawaii. I have often suggested in posts that it be near compulsory for people to put their location in their published profile - so as to avoid this sort of specific problem - unique locations or anything else.

To that end, please do me the honour of not referring to me as being from South Africa, I live and reside in Namibia, a completely different sovereign country - as stated in my profile. It is with great pride that i have in the past and do so in the future represent Namibia in International surf competitions. Shame we never see teams from America or even Hawaii come across for the events - we might learn something new as well.

Cheers from sunny Africa.

Jeri