My neighbor gave me this today. Name plate is gone. Haven't opened it up yet but the anti reverse seems to work and freespool is surprisingly good.
How do I identify it?
You NAILED it Garcia Mitchell
Made in France . Those are good alright but a little weak on Bridge Plate Shafts,plus the Rubberish Material used on the Side Plates seem to start checking around the centers. Still quite usable but aesthetically a Boo Boo .
Not reel sure the dates (1960 -1980 ?)but they made them in these model numbers I know of and probanly More
600, 600P, 600A, 600AP, 602, 602P, 602A, 602AP, 604, 604P, 604A, 604AP, 606, 606P, 606A, 606AP, 620, 622, or 624
Next in that series were the GK models ,made in JAPAN.
The Gk series had odd and even numbers and some had level winds/
Ok the Material was DERLIN and here is an excerpt from an owners manual in the Day .They were Garcias idea of Salt Water Reels then .
They tend to break handle side sideplates.
Yep it`s a 624 . I still fish with one on occasions..
If you want to fish it, replace the drag washers with Penn 006 060 (Squidder) drag washers.
Yes be very careful not to screw the spool adjustment in on the tail plate to hard or you will blow the centre of the face plate out, also, make sure you place the mono on the spool in cold weather, if you do it in the summer when the mono can stretch more, then it gets cold & shrinks, that will crush the spool, dont ask me how I know, cheers Don.
I'd clean it up and add it to the collection of old reels that are shelf queens not to be fished.
Yours still has good color. Mine turned yellow and the label fell off. I think the round knob is rosewood or ebony, though. Never seen a cracked off knob on one. I don't know if that discoloring can be reversed.
I guess they learned cause the GK's are stainless.
Would one of you kind folks who have this reel be willing to do me a favor? Can you take a closeup decent resolution pic of the decal I'm missing, ideally with a tape measure or something similar in the pic, so I can scale and print it on decal paper. I figure i can take a stab at a restoration job.
This is Copied off the INTERWEB .Hope it works . Make several if you can .
My good sir, it's the measuring tape in the picture that makes it so i can print it to the original size, though I suppose I could get out the caliper and scale it.
While we are at it, what size line should I put on this guy, and how heavy a rod should I plan for it?
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on August 18, 2022, 06:14:13 PMMy good sir, it's the measuring tape in the picture that makes it so i can print it to the original size, though I suppose I could get out the caliper and scale it.
While we are at it, what size line should I put on this guy, and how heavy a rod should I plan for it?
Oh!
I thought you could Crop the Photo to fit the Measurement you have in the Detent on the reel you have ?
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on August 18, 2022, 06:14:13 PMMy good sir, it's the measuring tape in the picture that makes it so i can print it to the original size, though I suppose I could get out the caliper and scale it.
While we are at it, what size line should I put on this guy, and how heavy a rod should I plan for it?
20-30 mono like a jiggy. No idea if there are carbon drags available and the original drags are prolly questionable shape. If you dont hav a measurement before I return home I will mic mine for you.
Was told to use penn 6-113 size drags. Available locally for a buck a disk thats what I did and its thicker but diameter is correct. Probably balanced out a bit by how much I had to polish the metal disks, they were quite corroded. Seems quite smooth now. I kept the original delrin under the main gear, the boss says smoother startup.
I reassembled without a schematic and incorrectly put the one belville between the star and the handle, and put the freespool lever on backwards. So I'll be revisiting tonight. Do we know the thread size of the small screws? It seems I got something wrong somewhere, and can't properly reach the threads of the foot. But none of the screws into the posts seemed overly long, in fact I had to use the long ones I had for those to even reach. So that leads me to think I need longer screws to use to attach the foot.
Gotta say though I was blown away by the 30 freaking seconds of freespool from an incorrectly assembled reel with zero bearings. That was not what I expected. I'm gonna fish this thing forget the shelf.
Get some more of those for spare parts. Not picking at the reel, just sayin' it's old-er-ish and used so parts might get scarce. Especially if you like the reel and it performs well for you.
Catch fish, post pictures, repeat!
I think you'll find this one is a 622 - slightly narrower than the more common 624. I had a 624 as my first 'boat' reel over 50 years ago. It is still in good working condition but indeed the handle sideplate does show cracks around the bearing screw. They all do this sooner or later.
The white Delrin material also stains brown with grease eventually too. The handle is surprisingly comfortable and is black plastic. I've never seen the handle break and many of these Mitchell reels were found on UK charter boats, some still in action in spite of the beating they received.
When new, the clutch engagement lever always came unscrewed! Simple fix, but best check it is tight to begin with. Also, the drag was terrible - fine when dry but sticky and grabby when wet, and reels get wet on a boat.
I have a 622 as well that I use for my mackerel/bait catching rod - being narrow it doesn't need too much line spreading when working the feather lures (sabiki) up and down.
Will clean up but not worth a fortune so use it.
Interesting for me to see this reel. Was the first "propper" reel I bought from a school time holiday job earnings around 1966 I guess.
I don't know what happened to it.
Quote from: UKChris1 on August 23, 2022, 09:43:49 AMThe white Delrin material also stains brown with grease eventually too.
Probably should have guessed this on my own. Mine was very very clean. I thought about doing a clearcoat but didn't. Then I assembled it using cals grease and thought nothing of the grease all over my fingers. Then I flipped it over and was very sad.
The before/after pic looks like a goth went on a beach vacation.
I also had a sideplate that went green :P
I had loaded the reel with a bright green Terylene line once available in the UK called SeaRanger. It was a tough line but lost its colour after some use. In this case, the colour migrated to the white sideplates that took on an eerie green tinge.
I have never previously thought about trying to bleach the plates white again. I think I have an old spare plate somewhere that I might try...
Is this the same Delrin material now used for drags?
A bit if googling suggests acetone is safe on delrin. And a bit of acetone and a lot of elbow grease did substantially lighten the test spot. I'm considering an overnight soak. I'm also considering a paint job.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on August 23, 2022, 03:32:00 PMA bit if googling suggests acetone is safe on delrin. And a bit of acetone and a lot of elbow grease did substantially lighten the test spot. I'm considering an overnight soak. I'm also considering a paint job.
Be sure and paint it Rojo 8)
Quote from: Wompus Cat on August 23, 2022, 03:38:25 PMBe sure and paint it Rojo 8)
Now hold on a second. It's a French reel. I believe they'd call it
rouge
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on August 23, 2022, 04:52:58 PMQuote from: Wompus Cat on August 23, 2022, 03:38:25 PMBe sure and paint it Rojo 8)
Now hold on a second. It's a French reel. I believe they'd call it rouge
Put some German Made Drags in it and paint it ROT
Quote from: Wompus Cat on August 23, 2022, 06:09:15 PMQuote from: JasonGotaProblem on August 23, 2022, 04:52:58 PMQuote from: Wompus Cat on August 23, 2022, 03:38:25 PMBe sure and paint it Rojo 8)
Now hold on a second. It's a French reel. I believe they'd call it rouge
Put some German Made Drags in it and paint it ROT
Are you cutting brake pad and clutch friction from the benz to make drags ?
Quote from: oldmanjoe on August 23, 2022, 10:29:56 PMQuote from: Wompus Cat on August 23, 2022, 06:09:15 PMQuote from: JasonGotaProblem on August 23, 2022, 04:52:58 PMQuote from: Wompus Cat on August 23, 2022, 03:38:25 PMBe sure and paint it Rojo 8)
Now hold on a second. It's a French reel. I believe they'd call it rouge
Put some German Made Drags in it and paint it ROT
Are you cutting brake pad and clutch friction from the benz to make drags ?
Just Shrinking down the Reverse clutch disks in a K4C-025
Ah wet clutch material good choice .
Quote from: Shellbelly on August 23, 2022, 03:26:19 PMIs this the same Delrin material now used for drags?
I believe so, though it comes in different colours.
Here's a head scratcher. The gear side plate was super grease stained. I... Left it in my car a few days. And somehow now it's clean white again. Not complaining but I'm stumped. Nothing else has ever exited my car cleaner than it entered.
Put it back in the car when the Moon is Full and see if it ges stained again . You may be on to something Here. :d
Seriously ,the chemicals you used in cleaning have most likely reacted with the Ultra Violet light and Bleached out the Derlin .
Kind of shocking that they used Delrin. A more exotic material back then and required better controls for injection molding. Bad UV exposure characteristics, so white (degrades fastest) was an awful choice. Mebbe they figured that the UV degraded surface would be less visible on white ... Blech.
If you can get your hands on a copy of Dupont's old Delrin Design Guide,you will find some interesting stuff, like that it doesn't absorb hydrocarbon based oils, and that acetone will penetrate it. Maybe some stress relief microcracks from the injection molding let some oil in, and the acetone leached it out? Heat from being the car probably helped.
Dyeing white delrin is more common than painting. I think that they even use plain old RIT dye. It is mentioned in the design guide. The stuff is paintable, but requires flaming the surface and specific primers and paints. I never tried painting or dyeing. On something that old with stress cracks, dyeing may not result in even coloration.
Delrin is one of my favorite materials to work with. It is a dream to machine as long as you are not looking for a mirror finish or crazy-accurate dimensions...
-J
Maybe ease of machining is why they did it?
Does epoxy stick to it? A light coat with some white tint mixed in (or some other color craziness) seems ideal if it'll stay.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on August 31, 2022, 09:50:06 PMMaybe ease of machining is why they did it?
Does epoxy stick to it? A light coat with some white tint mixed in (or some other color craziness) seems ideal if it'll stay.
Probably just differentiating with a new premium material. Bakelite was not so sexy anymore.
The Garcia sideplates were undoubtedly injection molded. Too expensive to machine and polish from Delrin stock. But the gate design for the molds has to be spot on, you can only keep the melted Delrin at injection ready temperature for a short time, etc., etc.
Bad mold design/processes result in introduced stresses in the part from uneven shrinkage during cooling, which eventually manifest in stress cracks, which apparently is common on these reels. A wide, disk shape with varying thickness, like a reel sideplate is a tougher part to pull off. A few decades of experience now, so there are lots of molded Delrin mechanical parts like valves out there, but plastic reel sideplates are pretty much all fiber filled nylon for a reason.
Regarding painting: Plastics like polyethylene don't have enough surface tension to allow the creation of a a nice even surface film of paint or adhesive for painting or gluing. Flaming with a torch or similar creates an superficial oxidized layer giving the liquid something to grab onto instead of forming into little pools. Haven't tried this on Delrin, but assume that the same reasons apply. I think that they recommend the nastier lacquers for painting Delrin, but I could be misremembering. It should be covered in the design guide.
I personally wouldn't paint or dye an old Delrin sideplate for purposes other than satisfying my curiosity. Probably pretty long odds in ending up with something that looks better than a somewhat faded or discolored original. An honest patina ain't so bad.