I just bought my second 114-H Black plate Special Senator. Now I have a pair of 10 out of 10 condition 114-H Blackies. ;D ;D ;D ;D RUDY
Let's see some pics of those beauties
No camera & wouldn't know how to send them if I did. The second one will be in transit to me tomorrow morning. The first one is shown in the Photo Gallery dated Jan. 29,2015 around page 16 under Rowdy's new reel & this one was on ebay for a month and a half. Finally nibbled the price down. Photos of the second one are under Penn Tutorials page 1 number 7 (picture plates)
QuoteI just bought my second 114-H Black plate Special Senator. Now I have a pair of 10 out of 10 condition 114-H Blackies.
I am going to take up a bit of space here, because I am trying to find out some of the history of these reels and why they exist at all. I just found one of these at a show last weekend. I had to buy it, it is about a 7 or 8 in cosmetic condition and a 10 mechanically.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Speial%20Senaor--High%20Speed%20Reels--Balck/1964%20Penn%20Senator%20114H%20011%20676%20x%20507_zps2isefia6.jpg)
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Speial%20Senaor--High%20Speed%20Reels--Balck/1964%20Penn%20Senator%20114H%20015%20676%20x%20507_zpsyvsdmxlz.jpg)
These reels were introduced in the Penn 1964 catalog to the public:
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Speial%20Senaor--High%20Speed%20Reels--Balck/1964%20Catalog%20Scan%20of%20Penn%20Senator%20114H%20812%20x%20612_zpszfnfqa48.jpg)
In 1963 this reel was introduced at the Trade Shows with a single page brochure.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Speial%20Senaor--High%20Speed%20Reels--Balck/1963%20Penn%20Brochure%20114H-Estate%20of%20Martha%20Henze%20Egly%20474%20x%20993_zpsihdg1eke.jpg)
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Speial%20Senaor--High%20Speed%20Reels--Balck/1963%20Penn%20Brochure--Martha%20Henze%20Egly%20estate--pg.%202%20amp%203%20705%20x%20576_zpswxwge9jt.jpg)
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Speial%20Senaor--High%20Speed%20Reels--Balck/1963%20Penn%20Brochure%20114H--%20%20Martha%20Henze%20Egly%20estate--pg.%204%20462%20x%20758_zpsrz8v3xmb.jpg)
The 1963 brochure is presenting this reel with Red side plates as is the 1964 catalog. The brochure I have was purchased at the 2003 Penn auction of the Martha Henze Egly estate. It is, what I believe to be a first printing (lower right corner of the last page of the brochure has a date code). When I look at this brochure, it seems to me that the red side plate color was added to the front page of the brochure post-printing. Not 100% about that. These 114H models had Red side plates from Day One of their introduction, yet it seems Black ones do pop up from time to time.
Does anyone have any idea why they exist in the first place or when they were made?
I saw that on eBay for sale for quite a while, good on you for getting his price down!
Ebay has been fun this past month! Lots of success stories as well as nail biters! I did manage to get a 9500ss for $69, but that is for another thread ;D
Quote from: coastal_dan on February 02, 2016, 03:13:41 PM
I saw that on eBay for sale for quite a while, good on you for getting his price down!
Ebay has been fun this past month! Lots of success stories as well as nail biters! I did manage to get a 9500ss for $69, but that is for another thread ;D
SCORE......
A black plate 114H in mint condition just sold for $131.50 on Ebay. I wondered why so much, until I did the research on here as to their limited production.
What was the last year they made the external drag access?
QuoteInsert Quote
What was the last year they made the external drag access?
In terms of conventional Penn Senators, they never stopped making external drag access. The Senator series is still available in the 2010 catalog, with external drag access.
Mike, I think that Bill's question was when did they stop making the 114H-style Senators with external drag access.
I realize that the line drawings in the catalogs continued to show the 114HL group with external drag access, at least up to pocket catalog 89B, but in actual production, those reel have not had the external drag access for many years, dating back to well before the design change to the new-style side plates (see photos below - photo credit and thank you to Fishgrain) with the eccentric lever recess and the graphite and aluminum frames, or even before. The older reels with external drag access used part number 136-114H, which is the collar that covers the drag. It would be interesting to know when the design was changed.
Randy
Exactly Randy! I was referring to the 114H model.
QuoteMike, I think that Bill's question was when did they stop making the 114H-style Senators with external drag access.
I realize that the line drawings in the catalogs continued to show the 114HL group with external drag access, at least up to pocket catalog 89B, but in actual production, those reel have not had the external drag access for many years, dating back to well before the design change to the new-style side plates (see photos below - photo credit and thank you to Fishgrain) with the eccentric lever recess and the graphite and aluminum frames, or even before. The older reels with external drag access used part number 136-114H, which is the collar that covers the drag. It would be interesting to know when the design was changed.
OK, lets try this. In the mid 1980's, a transition was made. Here is the 114H in the 1984 catalog. photo, not line drawing.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Senators/1984%20Penn%20Senator%20114H--6-0_zpswru0ukpr.jpg)
Now, moving to the 1985 catalog, here is a photo of the 114H again.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Senators/1985%20Penn%20Senator%20114H_zps4o2miibx.jpg)
In 1985, Penn is still using the heavy spool; but, the external drags are gone. Your head plate with the recessed area for the free spool lever is not being used yet. And, of course, the screw pattern on your later side plate is totally different, which would indicate the solid frame rather than individual cross bars.
Randy,
I found it. The newer side plate you have pictured was introduced in 2001.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Senators/2001%20Penn%20Senator%20114H--6-0%20801%20x%20602_zpssrm17chk.jpg)
Thanks for doing the research Mike. Now we know! It looks like that was a big year for changes, with the new full frame and the change to five mounting screws per side from eight, but I think that the newer style side plate might go back to an earlier date than 2001 because I have new in the box reels with the newer style side plate with the earlier graphite and aluminum half-frames.
QuoteThanks for doing the research Mike. Now we know! It looks like that was a big year for changes, with the new full frame and the change to five mounting screws per side from eight, but I think that the newer style side plate might go back to an earlier date than 2001 because I have new in the box reels with the newer style side plate with the earlier graphite and aluminum half-frames.
The side plate with the hole pattern you have shown is a 2001 origins plate, IMHO. Half frames for the 114H were the old hole pattern. The design style of the side plate is pre-2001; but, the plate you have shown is a 2001 or newer plate because of the hole pattern.
The side plate design goes back to 1994 for the 114H only, with the introduction of the half frame. The name of the half frame model was the Senator II. The older high speed 114H models were named the Special Senator. In 1993 and 94, the Senator II models were made with chrome stands with straight flat black double cross bars or half frames depending on the reel size. It was all a kind of confusing transition. I expect the info coming back to Penn from whoever was field testing these reels was causing these changes for a couple of years.
Quote from: Long Enuff on February 12, 2016, 04:43:21 PM
A black plate 114H in mint condition just sold for $131.50 on Ebay. I wondered why so much, until I did the research on here as to their limited production.
That would be me. ;D
It is mint, that is the only reason I paid that much, and I didn't have one.
Quote from: Shark Hunter on February 13, 2016, 04:28:15 AM
Quote from: Long Enuff on February 12, 2016, 04:43:21 PM
A black plate 114H in mint condition just sold for $131.50 on Ebay. I wondered why so much, until I did the research on here as to their limited production.
That would be me. ;D
It is mint, that is the only reason I paid that much, and I didn't have one.
Nice score!
;)
Shark Hunter, are you going to need a shim under the gear sleeve of that one? ;)
Probably not. ;D
Off topic but with the spinners Penn made an all black 712 before the green ones came out.
Here is my prize. In another thread, Ted said these were made in late 1963 and early 64. Only a few months.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/ddyer2/IMG_3230_zpseyinu28h.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/ddyer2/media/IMG_3230_zpseyinu28h.jpg.html)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/ddyer2/IMG_3231_zpsmkcrx3vx.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/ddyer2/media/IMG_3231_zpsmkcrx3vx.jpg.html)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/ddyer2/IMG_3232_zps12qadw0i.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/ddyer2/media/IMG_3232_zps12qadw0i.jpg.html)
Nice one Daron!
It looks like it came straight from a time capsule left at the Penn factory in '64.
Those oversized butterscotch handles are my favorite.
Chad
I got it from a couple in Wyoming. They bought it at an estate sale. It had a nice Fenwick on it.
All that is missing is the clamp. I'm sure I have one somewhere.
QuoteI got it from a couple in Wyoming. They bought it at an estate sale. It had a nice Fenwick on it.
All that is missing is the clamp. I'm sure I have one somewhere.
Great find Daron! I love the light colored handles, mine has a dark brown handle on it with the same shape. I feel Ted is correct about the production run. The decision to make the reel in red was made in 1963, so I feel early production of these reels was only a month or so. They are not rare; but, if you are looking for one, you sort of have to look hard to find one. Mine came to me through a friend that deals Penn reels for the flea market shows. He sees hundreds, maybe more, of Penn reels all the time and he does not see these too often.
So, congrats on the find, this is a shelfie in my humble opinion.
Thank You Mike,
I need to take a peek inside before I make it a shelfie. ;)
QuoteI need to take a peek inside before I make it a shelfie.
Please share your findings...
I was afraid it would be a regular 6/0 inside, but it is definitely a 114H.
It looks just as nice on the inside.
(http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag93/darondyer/new%20camera%20008_zpsjohh3z5c.jpg)
(http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag93/darondyer/new%20camera%20009_zpss0mzzpl6.jpg)
Complete disassembly and regreasing. Nice steel gears.
(http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag93/darondyer/new%20camera%20010_zpsquvl9kkx.jpg)
It has an original asbestos stack. Everything will be kept original, with the exception of a shim on the sleeve.
I've purchased a new camera, and the detail of the photos are showing.
I also bought a new laptop I will pick up on Monday.
Its been a five year run on this one. It is time to upgrade.
Nice score Shark!
i think its a good call on keeping it original since its gonna be a shelfie.
That shot of the inner handle side plate looks amazing, photo-of-the-month worthy to me.