Reel Repair by Alan Tani

very nice work!!!!

When I was a kid my dad's hands would swell up from bits of shrapnel that would work their way out. Leftovers from being shot down a couple times.

Fred,

Sorry haven't been here in a bit.
 I was able to use a different spool.
I just needed the chrome escutcheon and   this part is the same for multiple reels.
 Repaired mine.
Thanks for your help!!
 Steven

Hey all!

Just thought I'd drop a post with the progress on my 1935 Edward Broadfoot Hardy Altex no.1 mk.IV mechanical bail spin reel.
She was rough when I got her. No original finish left and old repair of handle and knob replacement.
I have a new handle and knob en route, so that's no issue, even though repair looks solid and knob, period correct.
I had to fabricate collet removal tool and a tiny punch for brass check carrier pin removal.
For others: I purchased a split ring plier set from auto store and used the small straight jaw attachment. Filed the tips to fit the collet removal holes and used small vice grips to hold the jaws tight and at correct distance. Worked like a charm!
I am going to paint body and flier dust cover and leave flier polished aluminum.
Lots of parts to this old girl, but I'm always up for a challenge.
Now, on to the next step. Paint and reassembly.
Cheers!!

Quote from: oldmanjoe on April 27, 2024, 02:28:28 AMLet me try again , with a simple test.   Tie YOUR arbor knot on a bolt , make two additional wraps  and see if you can pull the line around the arbor "slip "
Like this .  I can not get it to slip.

Quote from: oldmanjoe on April 27, 2024, 04:05:56 AM  There is a method to my madness , I want you to try to duplicate my little test ,pull two wraps off the bolt .

1-9292327464

Quote from: oldmanjoe on April 28, 2024, 04:43:43 AM

Quote from: oc1 on April 27, 2024, 06:47:29 AMA clove hitch with four wraps will not slip if the wraps are going in the correct direction.  The more you pull the tighter it gets. 

I agree with you ,not sure about clove hitch knot .

    

Quote from: boon on April 29, 2024, 10:24:10 PM

Quote from: happyhooker on April 19, 2024, 09:41:16 PMNever got thru to Shimano on 1st call after 40 + min.  Tried again the next day; got thru after short wait, only to find out they have no parts of any kind for the reel (Shimano MLX 300) I have.  Will try to make a needed bail spring for the "never fail bail" with the "unbreakable" bail spring.

Frank

I mean that model is, give or take, 43 years old. How long is reasonable for a brand to keep parts for?

I dunno.  They advertised it as having a "never fail bail", so the obvious answer is as long as there is any demand.

Frank

Quote from: Midway Tommy on April 29, 2024, 02:42:11 AMFirst off let me say that most people here are well aware that I know very little and could care less regarding conventional reels. Over 50 years ago I took a 5 gallon bucket full of level winds and dumped them in the middle of Woman Lake in north central MN. The few I now have left are hand-me-down heirlooms from my granddad and father. 

Quote from: jurelometer on April 26, 2024, 11:10:32 PMI also disagree (respectfully) with Tommy, but  not as strongly......... If he has concerns about nylon busting plastic spools it is worth listening to, even if the exact mechanism for failure might be debatable.

Knowing Tommy a little. I would guess that he probably doesn't mind you challenging him (respectfully) about not using mono, but he is probably not happy with the implication that he is a Californian

-J

It doesn't really bother me that much, Dave. Some Left Coast & Central Plains ideology may differ a little but I have an awful lot of CA friends and acquaintances that are really nice people, and overall, we all have a lot in common.   

It bothers me a bit.  I like that a bunch of folk from all over the world with all kinds of life experiences get along well here! 

Just trying to keep it light regarding the California stuff. I'd be honored to take you out for a tofu dog the next time you are out on the West coast

QuoteMost people that have extensively serviced, repaired and/or collected older/vintage open faced spinning reels over the years are well aware that monofilament line can play havoc on certain types of plastic and graphite spools. Some can with withstand the stress and some won't. The main problem is you never know which spool has been overly stressed or has had a little too much UV degradation until it breaks while in use under the stress & pressure. The main culprit is the expansion and contraction of the mono, especially a full spool of it. For those that live in climates that see hot and cold extremes the contraction is exacerbated when the person goes fishing in late fall and the mono soaks up a bunch of water. If he/she lives where it gets extremely cold and then stores their rod/reel in the garage or leaves it in their unconditioned boat over the winter the exposure to extreme freezing temperatures makes the mono contract even more. I've known a few people who have done this that went to use their outfit in the spring only to find the front flange of the spool had popped off with line unraveled out the front of the reel/spool. The best way to combat this problem is, if the fishing you do doesn't require a full spool of line and you use mono, is to use a cork or plastic filler/arbor or use Dacron backing. I don't use the newer type braids but I suppose that would work as backing, too. 

The way that nylon works is that it fairly quickly adjust to ambient humidity.  I 3D print the stuff, and you have to pre-dry it so that it is not spewing off steam as you melt it to lay down the layers of plastic. If you are doing a 3D print that takes several hours, the spool of nylon filament has to be to encased in a humidity controlled container so that it does not reabsorb moisture in the air to equalize with ambient humidity and screw up the print.

While I am 100% on board in terms of spools getting blown out by nylon line, I suspect that it is more a factor of time (and maybe temperature).  To much pressure for too long and kablooey. Nylon just equalizes to ambient humidity too fast, and I also don't see a way that getting wet actually causes the stretched nylon to store more energy than dry.

When you say "contraction", not sure whether you are referring to expansion or compression.

The problem is going to be expansion, and not compression  as mentioned in the recent threads on this topic. As the stretched nylon tries to return to its original length, the diameter is trying to expand.  This puts load on the spool walls, pushing them apart from each other.  Your photos of failed spools are consistent with this type of failure.  If the failure was based on compression, the arbor portion of the spool would have collapsed.


BTW, graphite reel parts are plastic too.  Nylon to be exact- Nylon filled with ground or chopped carbon fibers (up to 20%, I think) is marketed as "graphite".  The fibers make the nylon stiffer and more dimensionally accurate.  But instead of stretching under load like pure nylon, it is more prone to fracture.  No free lunch.  I also 3D print this stuff.  Pretty interesting material.
 
-J

 

Quote from: boon on April 29, 2024, 10:09:33 PMI think "braid slipping on the spool" is a misnomer. As you have found, it's quite hard to make braid slip on the spool arbor. When it's spooled too loosely, the line is able to pull up tighter on the spool, which gives the effect of line coming off the reel without the spool turning.

Covered earlier in the thread:

Quote from: jurelometer on April 28, 2024, 09:46:07 PM

QuoteI don't believe that the tests as you are doing them will work as I don't believe that the braid actually slips on the spool but rather slips on itself when not spooled tightly. The effect is the same. You don't have enough line on the spool.

I was thinking about this too, but went with the theory that this is unlikely.  For this to happen, the top of the spool has to be all bound up, and as you remove line, you are tightening up loose  coils deeper in the spool.  This part seems somewhat plausible, but the effect should be short lived.  It seems unlikely that you could successfully tighten up a large amount of coils deep in the spool by pulling on the end of the line. 

Easy enough to test- if the slippage continues indefinitely and somewhat evenly- then the whole fill is slipping -all the way through the arbor knot.  If it slips for awhile and then completely stops slipping, your theory provides a better fit. 

But  easy enough to prove one way or the other if you run into one.

-J

Quote from: boon on April 29, 2024, 10:24:10 PM

Quote from: happyhooker on April 19, 2024, 09:41:16 PMNever got thru to Shimano on 1st call after 40 + min.  Tried again the next day; got thru after short wait, only to find out they have no parts of any kind for the reel (Shimano MLX 300) I have.  Will try to make a needed bail spring for the "never fail bail" with the "unbreakable" bail spring.

Frank

I mean that model is, give or take, 43 years old. How long is reasonable for a brand to keep parts for?

How about a 2 year old Shimano Twin Power 8000 - parts discontinued!

I'm just not convinced that it's braid loosening on a spool. That would eventually stop. The trick if you wanna see braid slip is to tie a bad knot. I've had it happen twice when I was just spooling line on to peel it off for guide spacing testing. Tied a crap knot. Line slipped at like 2# of drag. It was a pain to reel it in.