I have two of these and haviong done the search nothing came up, so is there any information I should know. After about 15 years I feel I should perhaps strip them, rather than just wash and oil them! My other Ambassadeurs I have done, this will be the first time either of these has been apart. One is a 16oo and the other a 5600. I use them in the sea and freshwater, if that makes a difference. Thanks for any help anyone can provide.
Simon,
Yes it does make a difference if you use them in the ocean or fresh water. Were you able to find a tutorial that is close to the reels that you have. Alot of the information is transferable across platforms if you cant find the specific reel. For ocean fishing we use a thin coat of grease on all surfaces for corrosion protection, whereas for fresh water we still coat with grease but oils come more into play due to the lack of salt water. Check out the section on tools and lubrication (some very long discussions on this particular topic) and start out following Alans suggestions then customize to your particular needs LATER as you gain more knowledge/experience.
Cheers mate,
Leo
Thanks Leo. I have found a schematic of the parts, for ordering, but I haven't found anything to give hints about putting them back together. Are they near enough the same as a Black Max? Not ever having seen a Black max I don't know. Taking the side plate off the immediate difference to me is the spool spindle coming out with the gears! ??? That was a surprise the first time I did it. I haven't taken either of them apart further than this - in 20 years of use! They are still on the original bearings and everything too. The grease is getting very hard now though and they are getting stiff.
The handles have bearings in the paddles, but I can't work out how to get them - or do you just yank the paddles off on an interference fit?
Hey Simon,
the abu black max and pro max are almost exact copies of each other. however the pro max had two bearings on the levelwind as opposed to plastic bushing in the black max, and 1 bearing per knob in the handle and a bearing supporting the pinion gear. they are pretty easy servicing I took one apart and put one back together no problem with, just be careful with all the e-clips as well as the plastic bit in the cast control knob that holds that spindle in place i broke that piece before, but good thing abu maintains these reels for life and have pretty much all the parts in stock to repair these reels.
As for the handle knob bearings, the knobs are riveted on, so there is no removing the handle knobs to get at the bearings unless you feel like drilling out the posts and installing new posts. You are better off getting a new handle, some folks suggest the handle off the abu c3,s same grayish knobs but with bushings so they won't rust and bind. however if your knobs still spin freely you can just add a few drops of oil and make sure to take extra care and wash out the knobs and lube them after a trip to the salt. I did this to one of my reels and the knobs are fine so far.
I can try to do a tutorial, however I do not have a really quality camera, let me know if you have any questions, I will do my best to help.
I fish with these reels. 1 pro max 1600, 2 black max 3600, 1 each black max 5600 and 6600. They are very solid reels and great casters. I upgraded to carbontex drags, loaded some with braid (they were meant specifically for braid with their cross x line laying system) and use them for steelhead. The 3600 is my fav size. The 1600 is amazing with light lures. All sit low, so are kind of early low profile reels, but fit my hands better.
I learned a lot from This article.
http://www.realsreels.com/servicing/servicingtuningABUBlackMax.html
Cheers
Bassnwhaler
Hi chaps. Sorry for the lay off from joining in but I have been travelling all over the place and not getting the chance to do any fishing or reel maintenance! :o
I took my 1600 Pro Max apart today and gave it a good clean, relube and started to put it back together. I got it all back inside, but whilst the handle turns the gears around and they drive the spool - I cannot get the freespool thumbar to do anything. It is moving up and down but not making contact with the release lever in the gear housing. I have had apart and back together about a dozen times now, and I still haven't got it working...I am missing some minor little technique or placement somehere, but I am darned if I can recognise the mistake I am making - no parts left over and no parts missing. Everything is in good order, there was no salt build up inside and all it needed was the dried out grease being removed and relubing...I was hoping to use it this weekend in a fishing comp too! It is the Runswick kayak fishing tournament in North Yorkshire, Engalnd. If I can't get it working I will have to use my old 5500c which is working fine!
I am sure it merely the way I have got the freespool release arm lined up. I have had the 5600 apart to use as a pattern, it does look right but something isn't meshing. What have I done wrong please? ;D
make sure the thumb bar is in the up position when you install the right side assembly, this should do it.
Thanks MLB - I will take it apart and have another go! ::)
How do I position the lever arm that connects to the anti reverse ratchet under the main gear? Should that be engaged, or disengaged position? It all fell apart and I didn't have a chance to see how it fitted before I took it to pieces! So I don't know what it should look like when putting it back together.
All this familiarisation with the inside workings is going to be useful when I come to do the 5600! I will get some Yamaha blue grease and some yellow rocket fuel oil I think, while I am at it. New handles are going to be ordered, before I trash the originals - I'll keep the original bearing handles and use the non-bearing ones suggested from the C3 series.
All good stuff.Here is a picture of me using the 1600 in the sea for some big pollack - OK not big by USA standards, but my best on this trip went 12lbs, and they do give a good account of themselves when they dive for the kelp. The Pro Max is ideal for the job though and provides fabulous sport.
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c118/simoneverett/Fishing/Cherbourg003_zpsb52c019a.jpg) (http://s26.photobucket.com/user/simoneverett/media/Fishing/Cherbourg003_zpsb52c019a.jpg.html)
The stamp of fish we were catching - this is Denis, my friend and guide who has one of my kayaks.
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c118/simoneverett/Fishing/vlcsnap-2014-04-10-21h38m29s12_zps0277d8ce.png) (http://s26.photobucket.com/user/simoneverett/media/Fishing/vlcsnap-2014-04-10-21h38m29s12_zps0277d8ce.png.html)
If my memory serves me correctly my black max 1600 does not have an anti-reverse pawl and these 2 reels are basically the same. If you're are referring to this part #22044, this lever is that engages to give you free spool when you press the thumb bar. The upper part of this lever should be in the left position looking from above. No part should be touching/engage to the anti-reverse ratchet. hope this helps!
BTW here's a link to the schematics; http://www.abugarcia.com/sites/default/files/schematics/PROMAX1600%200201.pdf
tight lines!
I still have one of the wide ones and was just playing with it the other day. Wish I had one of the narrow ones. Really the precursor to all of the Saltwater baitcast reels and tougher than most with their heavy duty frames.
:)
The 1600 does not have an anti reverse pawl. The bearing in the side plate is an anti reverse needle bearing. The 1600 and 3600 drive trains (pro and black max) are exactly the same, though there are two different versions.
I see bassnwhaler posted a link to my disassembly/assembly instructions at realsreels. At Wayne's request, I made the page about 10 years ago.
I hate to say it, but I don't actually understand the exploded diagram - for finding part numbers, yes, but as a clue to how things go together it is meaningless to me. I have had the reel apart six more times and each time I cannot get the freespool mechanism to work or engage. I am obviously doing something simple wrong, that is putting one piece out of whack...but I am blowed if I can see what it is. I have been servicing my own Abu reels since 1973 too......but then I have troube with my 7700CL too, the auto engagement doesn't work on that, but the lever does so I still use it. It will be a similar kind of thing, one piece in the wrong place.
Any hints as to how to reassemble the 1600 would be very gratefully received, before I have ot post it off somewhere - but then I still won't learn what I did wrong. It is only the freespool /engagement of the thumb bar that isn't correct. The drag works fine and it cranks at full power with the collett engaging properly. Strange. I was supposed ot be fishing a comp this weekend too...I won't be if I can't get this little reel working. My big boat reels are way to big for casting lures!
have you look at this tutorial; http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1512.0
It's very similar except the pro max has 2 additional parts in the shaft. Can you zoom/amplify the diagram so it's easier to identify parts with their corresponding #?
Literally just a few days before your post I had mine apart to do some basic lubing. I'll see if I can post some photos to help.
This was definitely one of those things where I did not remove every part as the mechanism arrangement is not remotely demonstrated by the schematic (like a "bait runner" feature, total mystery how it goes together from the schematic) and I would not want to get in the same trouble myself.
But, let me see if I can sort this one for you. Will put up pics later.
Ok, these are the promised photos:
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii261/haugusnord/4a90b528-faba-4f4b-bbc4-881c5aa20281_zps10d2a45e.jpg) (http://s266.photobucket.com/user/haugusnord/media/4a90b528-faba-4f4b-bbc4-881c5aa20281_zps10d2a45e.jpg.html)
"A" above is the pin coming through the frame from the thumb lever that puts the reel in free spool.
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii261/haugusnord/f39613dd-c9f5-4b9b-9e65-f6fce12c71c3_zps2d96306a.jpg) (http://s266.photobucket.com/user/haugusnord/media/f39613dd-c9f5-4b9b-9e65-f6fce12c71c3_zps2d96306a.jpg.html)
"A" (the pin) goes into the crook of that arm which moves the eccentric jack. It slides in easily in the center of the > formed by the arm. When you depress the thumb lever, the pin moves down and forces the arm to pivot.
Hope this helps.
I have found the problem - it works perfectly until I tighten the two screws that hold the side cover in place. If I back them off just half a turn it frees up, tighten them so the side cover doesn't slop about and the freespool lever is jammed solid. Something inside is binding, the trouble is my black face plate covers much more of the inside than in the picture above, there is no cut away section like in the picture, or at least ony a small section about 1/2" that's all and it is the opposite side to the chromed lever.
I have taken everything apart yet again, but I still cannot work out which part I have in the wrong place...possibly the plastic spring collet on the end of the spool spindle - I have this on the outside of the plastic yolk the small gear is supported by.
I have been trying to get both the gears to mesh and the freespool to work for over 3 hours this afternoon now...I get the gears to mesh - the freespool doesn't work. If I get it back together so the thumbar works, the gears don't mesh.....I have chucked it in a box in disgust! I will leave it a few days, because I won't have a chance to look at it agin before Monday now...anyone know a guy in the UK who could just put this thing back together so it works please? It needs no parts, no grease, no oil, just the screws putting in the right holes. :-[
Quote from: johndtuttle on July 03, 2014, 03:22:15 AM
Ok, these are the promised photos:
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii261/haugusnord/4a90b528-faba-4f4b-bbc4-881c5aa20281_zps10d2a45e.jpg) (http://s266.photobucket.com/user/haugusnord/media/4a90b528-faba-4f4b-bbc4-881c5aa20281_zps10d2a45e.jpg.html)
"A" above is the pin coming through the frame from the thumb lever that puts the reel in free spool.
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii261/haugusnord/f39613dd-c9f5-4b9b-9e65-f6fce12c71c3_zps2d96306a.jpg) (http://s266.photobucket.com/user/haugusnord/media/f39613dd-c9f5-4b9b-9e65-f6fce12c71c3_zps2d96306a.jpg.html)
"A" (the pin) goes into the crook of that arm which moves the eccentric jack. It slides in easily in the center of the > formed by the arm. When you depress the thumb lever, the pin moves down and forces the arm to pivot.
Hope this helps.
John,
thanks for those pictures. My reel is slightly different inside. The black base plate is larger and only has a cut away for the level wind gear. The chromed, angled lever you point to actually extends over the black base plate on mine and the plate goes round that side of the reel.
When I put the assembly together and hold it all in place, the gears mesh and the thumb bar works to take it out of gear. If I put the side cover on and LOOSELY do up the screws that hold the side cover on, it all still works - BUT when I tighten the two screws (finger nail as a screwdriver only, so very little torque being applied) the thumbar becomes too tight to operate and the handle will not engage the gears so it stays in gear and won't go into freespool - or the gears will not engage again.
Strange, because if I just back the screws out a touch, it all works again. So something is binding when the side cover is fully in place. I have had an engineer and long time fisherman look at this weekend - he couldn't get it to work either! The only thing I have done is unscrewed it and oiled/greased it lightly. Before it was working perfectly and I was fishing it with it.
Hopefully you have resolved your issue, but if you have not, is it possible the brake blocks are not seated correctly? Make sure they are inside the drum on the brake plate when you tighten the side plate screws.
If they are not seated on the spool washer correctly when you install the drive side plate, the brake blocks will actually get wedged between the washer and the brake plate, and lock up the drive train.
Thanks for all your help folks, but despite looking after my Abu reels myself for 30 odd years, I am stumped with this one. I am going to have to take it to the Abu Performance Centre and get it fixed. I cannot find what is wrong at all - I have stripped it completely, down to total individual parts, put it back together again carefully, but I still have the same problem. It will not release the spool, but the gears engage properly.....I cannot fathom what I am doing wrong. I am beginning to think I have lost something someehwre along the line, taking it apart and putting it back together again.
Bloody nuisance. It has put me right off the reel too. ??? Once it is back together again, I am sure I will ove it once more. At the moment it has been sent to sit on the naughty step!
Before you take it to have someone else fix, be sure the e clip is installed on the bar that actuates the clutch. It just came to me that might be the problem. There are two steel bars in the thumb bar mechanism. One is thicker, and one thinner. The thinner bar is the lower one. It passes all the way through the frame. On the port side it is spring loaded. Beneath the thumb bar, also on the inside port side, there is a very small e clip on the thinner bar. This is the clip that keeps the thinner bar located so it will actuate the clutch. Without the e clip, the actuator bar will slide too far to port, and not function correctly.
Did you get your reel working?
I sent it to Performance Abu here in the UK. I had put the small, black plastic axle spacer the wrong side and so it had crushed when I put it all back together....I think I got distracted when I was servicing it. Bloody silly mistake after all these years. Cost me £1.39! It is now perfect again and catching fish and casting a 3/4oz lure 50 yards with ease.
So glad to hear that!
We ALL have had the same frustration, and fighting that and getting a solution is part of the game. ;)
Quote from: bassnwhaler on May 08, 2014, 05:05:45 AM
I fish with these reels. 1 pro max 1600, 2 black max 3600, 1 each black max 5600 and 6600. They are very solid reels and great casters. I upgraded to carbontex drags, loaded some with braid (they were meant specifically for braid with their cross x line laying system) and use them for steelhead. The 3600 is my fav size. The 1600 is amazing with light lures. All sit low, so are kind of early low profile reels, but fit my hands better.
I learned a lot from This article.
http://www.realsreels.com/servicing/servicingtuningABUBlackMax.html
Cheers
Bassnwhaler
That is a brilliant link - thanks a lot. I have done the other reel (5600 Pro Max) and acquired a BRAND NEW, never been spooled, 3600 in its velvet cloth bag the other day. :D I shall load it with 20lb braid on top of a suitable bedding of mono and use it for pike and bass in the sea - it looks identical to the 1600 and putting them side by side they seem the same. Is it just spool capacity that is different? I can't see any other difference.
Simon,
Thanx for the encouraging words. I created that web page at Mr. Real's request. I wrote it years ago, but the reels have not changed, and my procedure has changed only slightly.
I just finished modifying the main drive shaft on one reel. I have never been completely happy with the metal to metal fit between the drive shaft and drive shaft spindle. I have agonized about it for years. I finally decided to make a change.
I machined out 30mm of the drive shaft to a diameter of 4.8mm so it only touches at the very top near the handle. Then I machined the bottom of the shaft to a diameter of 7.0mm, and installed a 4x7x2.5mm bearing. The only metal to metal contact is the top 5 or 6mm. The bottom end of the drive shaft (near the gears) is supported by, and turns on a bearing. The difference is striking. The handle turns through even easier, if that is possible. I have not fished with it yet, however. That will be the real test. I guess it is now a 9 bearing ProMax vs. the original 8.
I am preparing to work on a spool to make it as light as possible. I am not expecting it to help a lot, but I will not know until I try it.
Good luck with your reels. If you have a problem with one, I am happy to help.
Unutt,
I read somewhere that there is a replacement part to engage the clutch that is less mushy and has a better feel. I believe it changed a year after the reels were introduced. Something involving a spring or lever swap. Does this ring a bell and if so what parts do I need to make the change? One of my reels feels drastically different than the others (mushy) and one recently stopped engaging all together so I thought I would check on this "improved" option.
Thanks again for your article and deep knowledge about these pro and black max reels.
Bassnwhaler
Thanks Mel. And indeed the revo did have an issue with the pot metal part that quickly wore down. I've replaced that part on my revo:)
I'll service it and let you know what I find on these 2 reels. Kind of like Easter egg or mushroom hunting!
Bassnwhaler