This may make you reconsider fishing that "hot bite" that tends to occur just before a storm.
Have your sound on.
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=929579627467262&id=100012457002743
NICE!!! was expecting standard carbon rod turned into broom/wig
I've been in the lightning protection industry for over forty years. We got real excited when we first saw this but it was quickly debunked by others. They insist that this was an underwater explosives detonation.
With that said; be very careful on (or even near) the water during electric storms. In the flat topography a fisherman with a rod is a very likely target for lightning. I knew a woman in New Mexico who was killed near a small pond. Her rod was likely the trigger mechanism.
Every lightning event is a competition and you want to limit your exposure.
Stay safe
-Mike
Quote from: PacRat on July 08, 2021, 05:53:37 PM
I've been in the lightning protection industry for over forty years. We got real excited when we first saw this but it was quickly debunked by others. They insist that this was an underwater explosives detonation.
With that said; be very careful on (or even near) the water during electric storms. In the flat topography a fisherman with a rod is a very likely target for lightning. I knew a woman in New Mexico who was killed near a small pond. Her rod was likely the trigger mechanism.
Every lightning event is a competition and you want to limit your exposure.
Stay safe
-Mike
If I hear thunder, even in the distance, I'm off the lake. It doesn't take a brainiac to realize when you're in a boat on water you're the highest thing for probably a few miles. ;) I fish in aluminum, a great conductor. ::)
Ever have your rods start to make a crackling sound as a storm approaches? I did, and I grabbed all my gear and ran like hell! Another time my braid line started to shock my fingers as a storm approached. Again, RUN!
Btw, yeah, that vid looks like it was caused by explosives.
Being struck by lightening while fishing is an honorable way to die.
Quote from: oc1 on July 08, 2021, 08:27:47 PM
Being struck by lightening while fishing is an honorable way to die.
It would certainly make a SHOCKING NEWS STORY !
Quote from: oc1 on July 08, 2021, 08:27:47 PM
Being struck by lightening while fishing is an honorable way to die.
what -- interrupt a day of fishing ??? where's the honor? ...shoulda' been DUCKING ;D
I'd rather die peeing in a comfy bed, when I KNOW I CAN FISH NO MORE
Nelz, You did the right thing by running. The philosophy is with only one foot on the ground you are less susceptible to ground surges. As you've noticed with your rods; you don't need to be struck directly to suffer the affects of lightning. All soil and all humans have various levels of conductivity. If you happen to be more conductive than the surface you're standing on, you will become part of the electrical path. There are lots of variables and there's anecdotal evidence that even body electrolytes can play a roll on how much a lightning strike will affect you.
If you get caught in the open it is best to run to the nearest vehicle or dwelling. The conundrum is that topography has a lot to do with your potential to participate. Some people say to lay on the ground but the experts say don't do it as you will have too much direct contact with the soil. I like Tommie's approach about getting off the lake ASAP. If caught in the open with nowhere to run to; one strategy is to crouch as low as you can with one foot atop the other...but it ain't easy. The best advice is to be aware and know where your shelter is.
-Mike
A few years back while staying in my Redneck Condo (a 30' trailer ;D) in Sacramento, Ca, a lighting storm started approaching from the north. Now being a suburban SoCal native, lightning is a rare occurrence for me, and always fascinating. So I grabbed a beer and a lawn chair and sat outside to watch the show.....then in a moment of clarity I figured out sitting in a lawn chair, in a trailer park, watching the lighting storm was not a very good idea 8). So I abandoned the chair for the safer ??? confines of my metal Redneck Condo......oh did I mention the tornado that came with the storm? ::) Well at least I'm here to tell the tail....Bill
And for all of us rod geeks out there - that graphite rod...well,,,graphite...kind of a really good conductor...- john
I think when talking about lightning, people assume that if you get struck, you're dead, end of story. But a large portion of those struck in fact do not die, though some wish they had.
Lingering permanent nerve pain, nerve damage including loss of sensation in extremities, brain damage, organ damage, impotence, 3rd degree burns, and calm people suddenly developing an uncontrollable and permanent anger problem have all been reported.
There's a lot of risks you can be a tough guy about ignoring, and some people really do make a big deal about the risks of some fairly innocuous things. but if you act like nearby lightning is no big deal, to me you sound foolish 100% of the time.
Besides I can't check out just yet. I got more fish to catch first.
Totally agree Jason. I've seen the damage lightning can do to houses and trees, and have been near a strike too.
Once, while driving in a storm, all windows closed, it struck somewhere around my car and the blast sounded like someone smashing a beer bottle against my window. It was super-loud and freaked me out! I was convinced it had hit my car, but I found no signs of any damage. Can't even imagine what would have happened if it actually had hit it.
1.21 Gigawatts!
The Man
Quote from: Ron Jones on July 09, 2021, 05:08:39 PM1.21 Gigawatts!
I've heard it's hotter than the surface of the sun too. :o
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on July 09, 2021, 02:38:11 PMI think when talking about lightning, people assume that if you get struck, you're dead, end of story. But a large portion of those struck in fact do not die, though some wish they had.
I know a guy who got struck and survived. However, he claims it gave him super powers, like he's a super he-man stud after that. No, seriously, not kidding. ::) ::) ::)
Two days in a row, while fishing off the Kau coast of the Big Island of Hawaii, there were thunder clouds that moved from the mountains towards the ocean and they passed immediately overhead of us. Wanting to take advantage of the winds blowing offshore, I rigged up a line with a kite and flew it as the clouds were moving above us. Brilliant guy that I am, I totally forgot the Ben Franklin experiment even after I started feeling a little tingling. Only realized what I did (twice) after I got home. Fortunately, there weren't any lightning flashes that came down the line. God was certainly looking after me on those two days.
Quote from: nelz on July 09, 2021, 05:20:00 PM
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on July 09, 2021, 02:38:11 PMI think when talking about lightning, people assume that if you get struck, you're dead, end of story. But a large portion of those struck in fact do not die, though some wish they had.
I know a guy who got struck and survived. However, he claims it gave him super powers, like he's a super he-man stud after that. No, seriously, not kidding. ::) ::) ::)
HA! Sounds like a story someone like me would try on the ladies to maybe get them interested.
Now don't y'all go out lookin' to git struck hopin' to git dem ;) super powers ;) now, ya heah? ;D ;D ;D
oh, just send out RC boat w/ lightning rod, then go scoop up poached fish (after storm, of course)
Quote from: Gfish on July 09, 2021, 07:10:12 PM
Quote from: nelz on July 09, 2021, 05:20:00 PM
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on July 09, 2021, 02:38:11 PMI think when talking about lightning, people assume that if you get struck, you're dead, end of story. But a large portion of those struck in fact do not die, though some wish they had.
I know a guy who got struck and survived. However, he claims it gave him super powers, like he's a super he-man stud after that. No, seriously, not kidding. ::) ::) ::)
HA! Sounds like a story someone like me would try on the ladies to maybe get them interested.
don't do it -- they're more likely to think there's a lodged, battery-powered device involved :o >:( :'(
And while it was mentioned that even if you are struck, many survive (you lost me at "impotence"!) what is more insidious is that electricity being the predictably capricious critter she is, can strike strike at a distance and still have horiffic consequences. For example leaning on/working on/touching a wire fence that gets hit on the other side of the farm or pasture. Conductor city! - john
Bill, be careful even in So CA. I was stationed at March AFB in Riverside when 4 airmen were working on a plane wing during a thunderstorm. Unfortunately, they were struck by lightning - 1 died. He had a burn on the upper body and his shoe had a large burn hole. We couldn't get his heart re-started. The others had burn injuries and nerve/muscle problems. I'll never forget that night.
Airports are notorious for lightning activity. Our biggest client is FedEx (mostly their Memphis hub). We also protect UPS at their Louisville hub. We don't recommend lightning rods (even though they are the accepted standard).
-Mike
Hey Mike what do you Recommend for a House with a Metal Roof.
House is Brick /Wood Framing . Just installed a Metal last year about 30 sq.
Got LOTS of Trees To Hit first before it hits house BUT I did get hit a few years back apparently as I noticed a Hole Burnt through the overhang Composite Shingles right beside the Electric Meter Pole . Got Lucky didn't burn the ol Shack down
A lightning event is a complicated competition with a lot variables. Typically lightning is expected to strike the tallest topographical feature but that is not always the case. The assumption in a residential neighborhood is that all the dwellings share a fairly equal risk and that lightning will randomly strike any home in the vicinity. There's an old saying that says "Lightning doesn't strike twice." which is pretty bogus and I can fully understand your concern. There are steps you can take to minimize your damage should lightning strike again. These are the steps I would take for a residential dwelling:
1) Put a quality surge protector at your entry panel. This should stop anything from coming in from the utility. I would also put Class A devices (plug-in) at you most important appliances (refrigerator, TVs, computers). A little secret when purchasing Class A devices is to look at the manufacturer's warranty and replacement policy. Some brand will replace damaged appliances. This is all marketing but worth looking into. Check reviews and see if the manufacturer has made good on their claims.
2) Improve you ground system. Residential code is fairly weak. I believe it calls for 25 ohms to earth and that if one ground rod doesn't achieve that you can simply drive another rod and walk away. Grounding is a 'black-art' that falls somewhere between voodoo and witch-craft but it is very important. It's can be difficult to measure this so you can just do the best you can within budget. If your soil will allow drive 20' of ground rod (do this by coupling 8' or 10' rods) this will give you pretty good results. A big roto-hammer or small jack-hammer with a ground rod tool works good but you'll have to start it from a ladder, then add a section once it's driven. If you decide to drive multiple 8' or 10' rods; you should separate them by 2.5 times their length. 8' rods at 20' apart or 19' rods at 25' apart. This maximizes efficiency. Those are the cheapest way to assure a good ground but there are ways to get much better ground if you need it but the cost is excessive for residential.
3) At the very least bond (connect) your metal roof to the ground system. If you want to really do it right, you could run a heavy braided conductor up one corner of your house then across the peak (or peaks) then down another corner. You should have ground rods at each of these drops. It's better to use aluminum for the heavy braided ground conductor. This is to prevent corrosion of your roof metal (copper tends to rust your roof metal and flashing). I don't recommend lightning rods. They do offer some level of protection but in a powerful storm their function will reverse and trigger a strike. I always recommend running the conductor but omit the lightning rods. This will basically leave you with a Faraday cage.
If you google 'NFPA780' or 'UL96A' you will be able to see the standards for industry.
That's a very basic version of what to do. The problem with residential lightning protection is that you can very easily spend more than the value of what you're trying to protect. Our industrial clients can lose hundreds of thousands of dollars in a single event so cost isn't much of a factor. If I lived in a lightning prone area, I would do no more than what I recommended.
If you want to PM me your GoogleEarth coordinates I could make some more detailed recommendations.
-Mike
Well that is certainly enlightening.Sorry for the pun ::)
Is there a formula to go by that one arrives at a 20' depth for Grounding or can you Drill a few feet down and then Traverse out away from structure 20 feet or so ?
Thank you very much for your info and offer .Will P/M my coordinates .
Yes, you can go shallow. I gave the 20' based on experience. I had a utility for a client and they had a 10 ohm spec. They drove several 10' rods and tested them, then screwed on extensions and drove another 10' and re-measured. I believe it took 30' to make the spec. Your soil resistivity is the variable and it changes with depth most of the time. This is likely because the soil has more moisture down there but it can also be a mineral layer.
What are your soil conditions like there?
Here's some old school advice: Back in the old days we use to take a bundle of 1/2" x 8' copperclad ground rods. I would cut the bundle in half and get twice as many rods. I would dig a trench all the way around the structure then drive the 4' rods at a minimum of 10' all the way around. You can daisy-chain all the rods together with #6 solid ground wire. You can braze or sil-phos the connections and you won't have to worry about connectors getting all crusty from being buried.
The ground rods we use now are 2 1/2" copper pipe filled with salt. We get 3 ohms from an 8' rod. We make horizontal rods for situations where there's shallow bed-rock or no access for an auger. The horizontal rods go down about 30".
There's an interesting book you might find online for free. It's called "Getting Down to Earth" by the Biddle Institute.
-Mike
So Mike, do you measure resistance with a regular VOM? If you drive one of those copper rods down to shallow ground water at five feet will that pretty much guarantee low resistance?
This is all very good and interesting information, Mike —
Thanks for your expertise and sharing your experience regarding lightning safety.
Best, Fred
Quote from: oc1 on July 11, 2021, 07:06:09 AM
So Mike, do you measure resistance with a regular VOM? If you drive one of those copper rods down to shallow ground water at five feet will that pretty much guarantee low resistance?
Not exactly a VOM. It's a megger that injects a current into the earth. I like the old Biddle analog units but most people are using the AEMC digital meters. You can do a "Fall of Potential" test to see the resistance to earth of a ground rod and you can also do "Soil Resistivity" to know either how deep you'l need to go and also to prospect for the best locations for ground rods. There are also some clamp-on testers but they are somewhat limited and often misused. They can be quicker and easier but will only test one electrode at a time. With Fall of Potential you can test the entire ground grid at smaller sites.
If you're in ground water, you typically have good earth...sea water is the best.
Here's a good source of information on the instruments and grounding, it's old but the principles are the same: https://archive.org/details/GettingDownToEarthBiddleInstrumentsApril1981/page/n23/mode/2up
QuoteYour soil resistivity is the variable and it changes with depth most of the time. This is likely because the soil has more moisture down there but it can also be a mineral layer.
What are your soil conditions like there?
I use to have a Beltec Rock Drill on my old 65HP Kubota and drilled holes for a local Marina here and the strata is just NUTS near the Lake it is 1 inch of dust then one foot or more of solid limestone then Gravel at 18 inches then 26" to 34 "where my standard bit would bottom out you would get River Rock (old smooth rounded rock )
I live about a block from the Lake and have pretty much black gumbo mostly .Have not dug below about don't 10 foot or so but think I am in a wash from millions of years of sediment. All the neighboring properties here are pretty much solid rock below a foot or less .
Check out this link. 16 people killed in one lightening strike. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-57801398 Dominick
Rob, (José Cuervo). And I had one of our best days salmon fishing during a lightning storm last year. Northern California was already ablaze and the sky to the north and east was glowing red. I figured we had the numbers on our side, there were at least 50 other boats out there along with us that day and I made sure to keep 20 of them between us and the storm at all times. It was a strangely beautiful day with periods of on again off again rains, thunder and lightning, periods of no wind, light wind and 30mph gusts. The weirdest part of the whole day was only Rob could get a bite? Every bite, every hookup and every fish landed. When we were done he gave his gear to the other boat.