I every one, hope your all keeping virus free, I brought a Shakespear Beaulite trout reel, made in England, I started stripping it, I see on the inside of the back plate, SFM1, & on the inside of the spool it has GERMAN DAM DT5F, would anyone have the schematics for this reel, as I took the cap of the front of it, there was a spring clip & a lever dropped out, not sure how they fit back in, also the trout line on it is about 3/64th thick any idea what wt line that could be, cheers Don.
Snagged this pic off Ebay; does it help?
Frank
"DT5F" may mean The line: Double Taper, 5 weight, Floating. Most fly line is 90 ft. Double taper is good for more delicate presentations mostly with floating flies or for use in shallow waters to keep the fly off the bottom. If memory serves me, there'ed be 30 feet of taper on one end, then the same thing on the other end. After you wear out one end you can reverse to the other. Never heard of German DAM line, though.
Interested, I hadda check Don. Found "DAM Forester" flyline from Germany on ebay.
Good thanks Frank, thats the one, still trying to work out how the small spring & the lever match.
Thanks Greg, that explains the trout line.
Any idea when it was made, & the value in AM $s, cheers Don.
It also had a 8 foot 2 inch rod with it, if that helps, I paid AU $30, rod & reel plus line & braid under lay, I have managed to get it cleaned up good, & spinning freely including handle,
until I work out how the lever & spring fit, the spool is working its way out, cheers Don.
there were several versions of the beaulite, many were made by JW Young. There are at least two configurations of the spool retaining latch - can you post a pic of your reel ?
The one is like the attached schematic, this is for an older reel but the latch mechanism is the same - a release lever that turns on a little pin under the cap, with an release lever elbow spring behind it.
The other is like that seen at http://www.jwyoungs.co.uk/reflex.htm
This will have a cylinder spring like that in a retractable ballpoint pen. The latch itself should have a little nub to hold the spring. Assemble the latch and spring in the latch cap then screw the cap back on. It's a bit tricky to get these back together sometimes. I use a dab of grease in the latch cap to hold things in place..
Made in the late 80s after Shakespeare bought out JW Young, not particularly valuable, $30-50 US. But they are great reels, I have several of the JW Young branded versions and like them a lot..
Ay Thanks Doug, it is the reel with the elbow spring, not the ball point pen spring, I just need to know how that spring fits in, I am under the impression, that you screw the lever & spring onto the spool before, you would fit the spool to the reel, I could get Mike or Wayne to post some pic, cheers Don.
Don's photo's of his beaulite;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/7995_29_03_20_2_30_25_32362787.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/7995_29_03_20_2_30_23_323582332.jpeg)
Mike
Thanks million Mike, see the black cap next to the spool it has the lever in place, & I think the spring is correct now, for a start I was trying to place the lever over the screw hole, & the spring around the black button, that the lever is now mounted on, I now have the cap on & the lever is moving correctly, it also looks like the clicker is in the wrong way, I think it needs turning over, although it is clicking okay, but is still clicking when it is in the off position, so all good & thank you to everone that has tried to help, & thanks again Mike for posting the pics, cheers Don.
That's a cool old reel. JW Young made some nice old fly reels. I have inadvertently started somewhat of a collection of vintage English made click & pawl fly reels, mostly Hardys or made by Hardy for other companies, along with one or two Orvis reels made by BFR, but so far none made by JW Young. I need to start looking further into those!
Yes they are a solid reels, I have it all back together now, working great, as I took the floating line off, I ran it through a sponge, with plenty of detergent in it, then through a damp cloth a couple of times, it came up really clean, almost like new.
special thank to Chris Rush, for the info he gave me, & a estimate of the value before, I brought it, I wont bother posting a pic of it now, as I have to get Mike or Wayne to post them for me, pain in the but.
I see the varnish is starting to crack on the rod, I will use the heat gun to remove the old varnish, should come up well, cheers Don.
Does the rod have a weight rating on it? To best cast that line it should be a 5wt or 6wt.
Thanks Greg, cant see anything on the rod, cheers Don.
What is the diameter of the spool? That would give a good idea of what line weights would work best on it. I think the SFM1 was a Salmon reel, somewhere around 3 7/8" to 4 1/4" diameter for 7 to 8 weight lines, maybe a 9. The diameter of the trout version would probably be in the 3" to 3 1/2" range for 4 to 5 wt lines.
Add enough backing to cover just the 1st row of holes in the spool face for a DT line. Fill the backing up into the vicinity of the 2nd row of holes for a weight forward floating line. Don't know about Young, but I think some of those English makers tended to over estimate the backing/line capacity for some reels.
Thanks for your info WFgord, I measured the narrowest part of the spool, or inside of the spool, just under 3", if that helps, cheers Don.
Sounds like a 3 to 5 wt reel. I have an old Battenkill II (somewhere?) click and pawl reel of a similar size fitted with a 4wt DT line. I used to love using it for small stream fishing - Until, one day, a grilse grabbed the fly and was hell bent on reaching the sea. I did stop it eventually but my hand was very sore and the split cane 8ft rod had a 'set' in it afterwards :(. Nowdays I only use disc braked reels - better protection for my hands, rod and tippet ;)
It sounds like you measured the diameter of the backside of the spool. Slightly less than 3", a 4wt line would be perfect for it. A double taper line, being thicker overall, takes up more space than a weight forward line and can get crowded, necessarily reducing the amount of backing capacity --not that backing on a 4wt trout reel does much more than build up the arbor a bit.
As trout reels go, with my 4 and 5 weight setups I have my DT lines on reels that have slightly larger spool diameters than the reels I use with WF lines.
JW Young made Orvis' first Battenkill reels. I have a Battenkill 5/6 made by BFR (British Fly Reels) and a Battenkill Mark III that was made by Hardy, but none made by Young.
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on March 30, 2020, 01:53:27 PM
Sounds like a 3 to 5 wt reel. I have an old Battenkill II (somewhere?) click and pawl reel of a similar size fitted with a 4wt DT line. I used to love using it for small stream fishing - Until, one day, a grilse grabbed the fly and was hell bent on reaching the sea. I did stop it eventually but my hand was very sore and the split cane 8ft rod had a 'set' in it afterwards :(. Nowdays I ony use disc braked reels - better protection for my hands, rod and tippet ;)
I know what you mean. I have (probably too many) click & pawl reels from 3 up to 7/8 weight size, and I do prefer them in 3 to 5wt for trout fishing just because I feel they offer better protection for the tippet --but that's just my preference. I also have disk drag reels from 5wt up to 9wt for heavier stuff. I definitely prefer a palming rim on both click-pawl and disk drag reels.
Thanks for all your info Men, I am learning all the time, I must admit, the spool looks a bit to full, I will make some adjustments with the underlay, many thank ever one, you have all been very helpful. I will try & use it soon, then report back, as the dams are getting very low here this time of the year, maybe the water temp maybe to hot for the trout, the fisheries did restock the dam last year trout, but I think if the water temp gets higher than 13 C, they die, there is a few red fin, in the Harvey weir, they are not native to Western Australia, so it is illegal to place them back in the water, we can catch as many as we wish, cheers Don.
Best of luck with the Beaulite!
One thing I did with two or three fly lines long ago was to shorten the fly line a bit --snip a few yards off the rear. I never cast an entire fly line while trout fishing so it's really no big deal and gives a little more room to build up the arbor with extra backing and a more relaxed fly line fit. Only down side is if it's a double taper you loose one of them, but if you keep a permanent loop connection on the business end it can last as long as a good WF line. Mine have lasted decades, but I keep all my lines stored indoors when not in use.
I think it would be great if they added a fly reel board to the alantani.com forums! :) :) :) :-X
Thanks wFJord, yes a trout reel & line section on the forum could be handy, also cover knot tying, what is the best knot to join the under lay to the trout lines, cheers Don.
You're welcome Don.
To connect the backing to the fly line a nail knot is pretty standard on trout gear up to 5 weight. I've used it on lines up to 8 wt, too, without a problem, but feel much more confident using a standard Albright knot to connect backing with lines 7 wt and up for targeting larger fish like stripers or in saltwater.
I prefer tying my own knots over using welded loops and braided loops on fly lines; I use a monofilament loop to loop connection with the leader.
For fly line backing I've mostly used 20 & 30lb Cortland Micron (dacron) for nearly 40 yrs and keep going back to it .
Good luck with the the fly fishing Don ,wfjord it would be a good idea for a section on fly fishing and maybe nottingham and Alvey reels as well.
Kim
Don,
For flyline backing I now only use hollow core braid, typically 50lb (anything thinner will tend to cut through welded loops). If the flyline is equipped with loops I blind splice a 'large' loop in the hollow core for a loop to loop connection. If no loop I sometimes splice the flyline directly into the hollow core and serve with ca. I have also taught myself to weld my own loops in flylines - with a decent controllable heat gun it isn't difficult.
wFjord, thanks again, for you info, all very interesting.
Kim thanks for chiming in, you are becoming a good contributor to the forum.
Hi Chris, yes I can understand your preferance to thicker braid, not that we could cast that far, but the braid tends to float as well.
My brother used to balloon fish @ Quoba, he would not use braid, as it would float to easy, with a sleight side wind, he would finish up with a big bow in the line, I will try your welding trick, I love a challenge, cheers Don.
Don, there's plenty of vids on youtube for welding loops - Rio do a pretty good video - a decent heatgun is the secret - oh and practice ;)
This is the one I use:
https://www.toolstation.com/wagner-furno-750-heat-gun/p68563
I also use it for shrink wrap, plastic welding (not just flylines ::)), any thing that requires a well controlled heat source, and the Wagner is very well controlled with spot on temperature.
Thanks again Chris, I have an Ozito heat gun, 2,000 watt, Bunnings is Australia sell them, they are @ the lower end of the price range, but most Ozito gear is quite good, it has a few attachments with it, must check them out, I have only used it for heat sink, & removing old varnish from rods, & also heating some reels to remove screws, ozito cordless drills I find the chuck is good, for spinning post when pollishing them, know marks left in the post, like the drill I have now, also they grip the thinest of bits, I will check youtube for the line welding, cheers Don.
Don, a 'normal' heat gun ain't no good for welding plastic/fly lines - it has to be controlled heat in the 200 - 250 degrees C range. Check out the vids on youtube.
Interesting. Sounds like fly reels have become much more of "a thing" since I last looked into them. Most of the emphasis(mine anyway) used to be on the rod. I remember line tech. seemed to take a few leaps forward in the 90's.
G - you won't believe some of the changes to fly reels - along with the cost :o
Have a look at this little beauty from Orvis:
https://www.orvis.co.uk/p/mirage-lt/2mts
Gee chris, your persistent, thanks for sticking with me, I checked out your orvis thing O, I think I will stick with the reel i have, weld with controlled heat, dont worry, I have oxy acetylene hear, I will control it, yes I did check the you tube on welding, very interesting, cheers Don.
As Fred would say "Patience, Preparation, Persistence"
Or my alternative - Proper Planning Prevents a P**s Poor Performance :D
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on April 01, 2020, 09:13:12 AM
G - you won't believe some of the changes to fly reels - along with the cost :o
Have a look at this little beauty from Orvis:
https://www.orvis.co.uk/p/mirage-lt/2mts
That's a sharp looking reel. I've read very good things about them, but only seen them on the internet; no Orvis store in town here anymore. I've read the first Mirages were originally made in Korea. According to Orvis the Mirage line of reels are now made in the USA, in Vermont. I don't know if it was manufactured in Vermont or just assembled there. Orvis is not a manufacturer and has always had their reels made by various other makers --their classic CFO reels, presently out of production I believe, were manufactured by Abel a few years ago.
I've devolved back to the vintage click & pawl roots for at least a good part of my fly fishing, but I greatly appreciate high quality modern fly reels of any kind.
The aesthetics of these Abel Vayas are over-the-top. Their prices are way over the top!
(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/17264_01_04_20_8_46_14_32382263.jpeg)(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/17264_01_04_20_4_13_39_323812283.jpeg)
As far as I know, not a lot :-\, the Mirage and Mirage LT (my personal favourites) are now designed and made in the US (perhaps by Abel??)
I have a pair of the Mirage LT and I luv em - you just know when something feels so right in your hand. Their worth, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder ;)
Thanks for those references guys. Man, they've gone waaay out there, especially with the cosmetics. I remember back in the day, the flyfishing tutorial I read when I's trying to get into it described the fly reel as ; "a storage unit for the line". I own't know, but I'm thinkin a lightweight disc drag would be nice for bigger fish. Either that, or just a well designed rim on the spool for "palming-drag".
I am getting a lot from u tube, welding, casting, flies & so on, rerapping the rod now, tried to remove old varnish, was burning the thread, should come up good, was crap before, cheers Don.
Don, sometimes it is easier to remove old varnish by scraping a scraper or dull knife. It will chip the varnish away clean and leave a decent finish ready for the next step. Heat and solvents will make it gummy and difficult to remove completely.
-steve
Yes I agree steve, some of the thread was faded, so a re wrap I think is the best, not that I am much good @ it, I would never send a pic of my wrapping ay, cheers Don.
Wanna see some photos when you get'er done Don!
Orvis has some great & expensive stuff made for 'em. But they have some lower end stuff too. Years ago I arrived at the Bighorn River, Montana, tailwater fishery after about a 120 mile trip. As the "crow" flies, my place down in Wyoming was only about 30 miles from the dam, but the straight through trip was off limits: Crow Nation reservation land. When I got there, "Aw maaaan, I forgot my reels!" So I bought this'n at the local fly shop.
Notice it says "British made"(maybe Hardy co.?). Nice aluminium spools and body, but plastic composite click pawls, same with the drag system which barely works. It fits the description of "a line storage unit". Got the job done, but will never last...
Quote from: Gfish on April 02, 2020, 05:30:42 PM
Wanna see some photos when you get'er done Don!
Orvis has some great & expensive stuff made for 'em. But they have some lower end stuff too. Years ago I arrived at the Bighorn River, Montana, tailwater fishery after about a 120 mile trip. As the "crow" flies, my place down in Wyoming was only about 30 miles from the dam, but the straight through trip was off limits: Crow Nation reservation land. When I got there, "Aw maaaan, I forgot my reels!" So I bought this'n at the local fly shop.
Notice it says "British made"(maybe Hardy co.?). Nice aluminium spools and body, but plastic composite click pawls, same with the drag system which barely works. It fits the description of "a line storage unit". Got the job done, but will never last...
Greg,
Just a guess, but I doubt your reel was made by Hardy. I would first guess Young, then maybe BFR, as they are the only other British makers I know of. Young usually puts "British Made" on their reels, whereas all Hardys and at least the BFR reels I've seen say "Made in England." Orvis acquired BFR (British Fly Reels) in 1993, but that doesn't mean yours wasn't made by Young. Could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure all the Hardy made reels and the BFR made Battenkill I own are alloy, not aluminum --or at least certainly not machining quality aluminum. I think Hardy is now machining at least a lot of their reels out of high grade aluminum, if not all.
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on April 01, 2020, 05:28:44 PM
As far as I know, not a lot :-\, the Mirage and Mirage LT (my personal favourites) are now designed and made in the US (perhaps by Abel??)
I have a pair of the Mirage LT and I luv em - you just know when something feels so right in your hand. Their worth, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder ;)
Abel reels used to be made in California. Manufacturing moved to Colorado after Ross and Abel were gobbled up by the the same conglomerate / VC group. The Orvis page says that the Mirage LT is made in New Hampshire. So unless Abel changed it's manufacturing location recently, the Mirage LT is probably made by a different company.
I am generaly not a sealed reel fan. But to credit Orvis, they provide a wrench to get at the one way bearing in the LT. Some sealed fly reels require special factory tools to open, and/or will void the warranty if you open them up yourself.
If I was still doing lighter freshwater fishing, a click/pawl setup with a palming rim is what would light my fire, but you are right, all in the eye of the beholder.
-J
Thanks again men, Greg the opened reel you presented, the clicker, on the left in the pic, looks to be facing the wrong way, or is there a reason for that.
the reel I started this post on, some one said it could be a Young reel, it has made in England on the front of it, not British made, so maybe it was not made by Young, maybe Greg I may send you some pics of the rod before & after, cheers Don.
Quote from: Donnyboat on April 02, 2020, 11:49:32 PM
Thanks again men, Greg the opened reel you presented, the clicker, on the left in the pic, looks to be facing the wrong way, or is there a reason for that.
the reel I started this post on, some one said it could be a Young reel, it has made in England on the front of it, not British made, so maybe it was not made by Young, maybe Greg I may send you some pics of the rod before & after, cheers Don.
Don,
I'm still learning, too, but let's see if I can get clearer on this --at least for myself, anyway!
It was Greg's Orvis Madison reel that has "British Made" printed on it --I was merely speculating about his reel. Orvis changed manufacturers on their various reel models so often that it gives me a headache trying to understand it. A search on ebay brings up examples of Orvis Madisons, some of which have either "British Made" or "Made in England" printed on them. Even Pflueger made 'em, too, for a while during the '70s, but those looked more similar to Pflueger Medalists. If in doubt, look on ebay!
An ebay search will bring up quite a few Shakespeare Beaulites made by JW Young. The printing on them varies and includes "Made in England," "British Made," "Made in Redditch England," and "Shakespeare Redditch England." Most all of them look like pretty good reels, but those Beaulites with the green spool face are particularly attractive.
The partial paragraph below was taken from a page about JW Young & Co. from The Fishing Museum Online:
"In 1966 Jim Young was instrumental in introducing a magnesium alloy multiplying fly reel which was later called the Fish Hawk, and other 'Young' lines were designed, including the Beaulite, the Condex, the Speedex, and three reels marketed by Orvis and known as the Battenkill Ultra-light' range."
Source --- http://www.fishingmuseum.org.uk/youngs_history.html
:) :) :)
Wfjord, your really doing your home work, thanks for that, very interesting, cheers Don.
A couple of before and after photos of the rod that came with Don's Beaulite.
Before:
(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/7995_06_04_20_2_24_34_324731448.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/7995_06_04_20_2_24_45_324742123.jpeg)
and after;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/7995_06_04_20_2_25_19_324751705.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/7995_06_04_20_2_25_29_324761413.jpeg)
Nice work Don, it looks like a different rod.
Mike
PS: I just noticed the newspaper 'drop sheets' under the rod to catch any varnish drops - you're flirting with danger there Don! Was Pat away for the day? ;D ;D
Ay thanks a million for posting these pics Mike, it was two pack epoxy I was trying to keep of the floor, although it was almost dry when I moved it into the house, I snuck it in after Pat was in bed, but she went for a walk through the night, woke me up & gave me a roasting, I told her I just, got into bed, so go to sleep, still getting the cold shoulder this morning.
I am quite happy the way the rod came up, although I only showed the best parts of it.
I only placed the metalic thread on the bace of the rod, was going to have some on the tip, but thought maybe it would give to much reflection on the tip, & spook the fish, or am I getting to technical, cheers Don.
Really nice job on the rod, Don! I'm sure it'll be well worth the roasting & cold shoulder.
Only just noticed your reply woody, its been a month now, she just started taulking to me after Tuesday, when I came home, from the ocean, with two Dhu fish, minimum legal length is 50 Cm, one was 59 Cm about 3.5 to 4 Kg, the other 54 Cm, not large by any means, but still a few good feeds, I still have not caught anything with the trout rod & reel, went up to the local dam, just trying to cast with out a fly or lure, the dam is very low, they are catching a few red fin perch, there not native to Western Australia, so you get a fine, if your caught returning them to the water, the water is very warm, so the trout must be, in the deepest water, were it is cooler, a man here told me he caught a trout over 6Kg through the winter, so maybe later I will buy a license and have a go at them, cheers Don.