I've got a 501 where the drag star backs itself off from lighter drag settings. What are the things to check? Thanks.
(There was a similar discussion recently, but I have not been able to find it. Apologies.)
--Mike
Hi Mike,
Could be washers missing or out of order under the reel handle or the drag stack. Did you have the reel apart lately?
Frank
Make sure the eared metal drag washer is NOT on the top of the drag stack.
aside from those things, I learned a good way to prevent stress on a drag stack is to add a Deleon washer to the top of the stack. You can omit the bell vile washer and get a smoother drag......................Joe
Isn't there a wavey washer that goes between the handle and Star to prevent the drag backing off?
Quote from: akfish on October 31, 2018, 07:11:07 PM
Make sure the eared metal drag washer is NOT on the top of the drag stack.
No wavy washer between the crank and the star...although some guys put one in there. There is a wavy spring washer between the top keyed metal drag washer and the spacer however. Sometimes these get mixed up.
Bill is correct. Make sure the top metal drag washer is a keyed (not eared) one — with a wavy spring washer on top of that.
Also make sure that all of the eared washers are in their proper gear grooves.
Either on a 3X3 stack, or a 5X5 stack — the top metal washer needs to be keyed, not eared.
Let us know if this is the issue, or not.
Best,
Fred
Thanks for all the replies. The reel has Brian's 5 stack, and the washers are in the right order. Instead of the wavy "tension spring," I've got one of those white plastic ones that some folks use (Delrin or acetyl - can't remember which).
Don't mean to thread jack but I have one question.....
What's the difference between a "keyed" washer verses a "eared" washer????
The hole in the keyed washer has a slot that fits the bridge post. The eared washer has 2 tits on the outside circumference that keep it from spinning in the gear.
Quote from: Frank on October 31, 2018, 09:20:58 PM
The hole in the keyed washer has a slot that fits the bridge post. The keyed washer has 2 tits on the outside circumference that keep it from spinning in the gear.
Did you mean eared?
The Top of the stack 8-60 Tension Spring Is there to allow cushion for the adjustment of drag tension, It can be omitted to allow more direct tension to the drag by adding a delron washer makes it smother. That's the concept anyway. There is all kinds of combinations to the top of the drag to accomplish that.
I have a feeling with the problem with the star backing off. It's in the drag stack, since it is a five stack there is a good chance the the stack is not fitting in the gear properly, protruding over ride in the drag. (To Tall)
Joe
Quote from: pjstevko on October 31, 2018, 09:26:59 PM
Quote from: Frank on October 31, 2018, 09:20:58 PM
The hole in the keyed washer has a slot that fits the bridge post. The keyed washer has 2 tits on the outside circumference that keep it from spinning in the gear.
Did you mean eared?
Yes, sorry about that.
;D ;D ;D :o oops!...................Joe
Quote from: Frank on October 31, 2018, 09:49:54 PM
Quote from: pjstevko on October 31, 2018, 09:26:59 PM
Quote from: Frank on October 31, 2018, 09:20:58 PM
The hole in the keyed washer has a slot that fits the bridge post. The keyed washer has 2 tits on the outside circumference that keep it from spinning in the gear.
Did you mean eared?
Yes, sorry about that.
I don't care about the wording I was just verifying that you meant the earned washer not keyed...
Eared washer holds the gear — keyed washer holds the sleeve.
Eared on left — keyed on right.
Bryan's 5X5 thin stack should have (3) keyed and (2) eared.
If you still have an issue — Bryan will be along shortly.
Tolerances may need adjustment if a little out of free adjustment.
Best,
Fred
When assembling & installing the bridge assembly do this. Assemble the gear,correct order of washers, wavy or delrin washer, & spacer sleeve. Then install the star & snug it down to make sure everything is compressed & in the correct location. Then remove the star and install a twisted rubber band or snug fitting o ring onto the gear sleeve against the spacer sleeve. Install the assembly into the plate & snug down the bridge screws. Next remove the band or o ring while holding the spacer sleeve against the drag assembly & install the star. Everything should now have been held in place & drag should now work correctly. This is what I learned from Sal some years ago & it works every time. Rudy
Yep! The man is correct. Works every time. Dominick
Quote from: Reel 224 on October 31, 2018, 09:51:30 PM
;D ;D ;D :o oops!...................Joe
Yes, I have to watch that. Must learn to read what I wrote before posting. Good thing it wasn't a loaded gun - I would have pulled the trigger. lol
The drag stack was installed properly. I think the problem may have been that the acetal "wave washer"/spacer tube combination was too short. When fully backed off, the star was out of contact with the top of the spacer. So when the star was only lightly tightened down, a little bit of creep would let the star back off fully. Of course another question is why there was any creep at all, but I wonder if the acetal washer promotes the problem, compared to the stock, metal wave washer. The acetal has less "give," so on light drag settings, the star is fewer turns from disengaged. I cobbled together a taller wave washer/spacer combo, will know more after fishing the reel, and will report back.
Thanks again to all who helped.
--Mike
Can someone please tell me or post a pic of the correct order for a jigmaster 3 stack?????
Thanks
The post Fred has shows you the correct way 6&7 ..............................Joe
By the way that tip Rudy gave about the "O" ring on the top of the gear sleeve when the assembly is done with the spacer sleeve installed is a good tip.
Joe
Quote from: pjstevko on November 01, 2018, 08:17:59 PM
Can someone please tell me or post a pic of the correct order for a jigmaster 3 stack?????
Thanks
pj, the order is CF, KEYED, CF, EARED, CF, KEYED, WAVE WASHER, SPACER SLEEVE, STAR WHEEL, HANDLE. Rudy
I was thinking of the newell arrangement With the thin wavey washer between the star and handle. Might be an option if the drag stack is high and not enough space for the thick wavey washer under the spacer
I don't ever remember a thick wavy washer being used in a jigmaster. In a 113h or 114h, yes. Rudy
Quote from: RowdyW on November 01, 2018, 09:57:38 PM
Quote from: pjstevko on November 01, 2018, 08:17:59 PM
Can someone please tell me or post a pic of the correct order for a jigmaster 3 stack?????
Thanks
pj, the order is CF, KEYED, CF, EARED, CF, KEYED, WAVE WASHER, SPACER SLEEVE, STAR WHEEL, HANDLE. Rudy
Thank you very much!!!!!
Can the wave washer be replaced by the plastic washer???
If it's a delrin washer, yes. All others it's better to use the wave washer. But you may have to use the wave washer if you need more height or a longer spacer sleeve.
Mike, is there a chance the star rubs on the outside of side plate or the collar rubs on the inside of side plate hole? That could make the star back off when the handle is cranked.
-steve
Hi, Steve. The star is not rubbing the plate, but the spacer is tight in the plate hole, which is not uncommon with Black Pearl's oversize spacers. I will investigate to see if that is a contributor. Thanks.
BTW, the tightness is partly explained by the fact that the gear post is not truly perpendicular to the bridge. I've seen this on some other reels. One of these days I will have to try straightening one, though I suspect it will destroy the peen.
--Mike
That might do it.
-steve
You can always install a thinner walled spacer, Mike —
To see if that is the issue.
Some of the thick-walled spacers have this issue — particularly if installing custom sideplates with a slightly offset post and sleeve. The tolerances are tight.
I have some, if you don't — just need the height measurement you need.
Best,
Fred
Thanks, Fred, for that offer. I've already increased the "tension spring"/spacer height. Let me see if that addresses the issue before introducing another variable. With luck, the wind here in the NE will lie down a little, and I will fish the reel in the next few days.
Mike
Some day I may learn not to shoot from the hip. The more I think about it, the more it seems that Steve's theory (tight spacer tube) best explains all known aspects of the problem. I have enough parts to put try the corresponding fix, and will post results to the thread after I've fished the reel. Thanks again, everybody.
--Mike
Mike; I make my own out on SS high corrosion resultant material for that very same reason. those custom plates will not except the larger spacers without altering the OD. I found .500-OD works good.
Joe
Hi Mike,
Sorry to hear you are having some problems and not joining the thread earlier. I had my yearly flu shot and this latest one took to me like a storm.
I think most of the trouble shooting has been addressed. If your Star is backing off then it's something above the last keyed washer that is binding with the side plate. Either the Delrin washer or the spacer tube. Pictures would help by the way.
The first place I would look is the Delrin washer outside diameter and the inside of the side plate machining step towards the hole where the gear sleeve goes through. My initial drag kits had larger outside diameter Belleville spring washers that used to rub on the side plate loosening the star. Check that out first.
Good luck.
Hi, Bryan. Sorry your flu shot hammered you. Thanks for the clues, but the Delrin washer in my reel is one that I made, and I *think* it's dimensions are okay. Let me check out the narrower spacer first (already in the reel as of today). If that doesn't work, I will take another look at the washer.
--Mike
It seems like the tight spacer was the problem. Good call, Steve. Thanks all, for your help debugging this.
--Mike