Hi guys,
This is a first for me and I'm hoping for some suggestions on how best to approach this issue ???
Upon removal the head of the handle nut has sheared off. It didn't take much torque so I assuming the person who last buttoned it up got a little heavy handed thus causing metal fatigue:
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc146/Chriscpb/Feature/1%20FTH-15.jpg)
There is a considerable length of post remaining inside the drive shaft I'm left to work with:
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc146/Chriscpb/Feature/2%20FTH-15.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc146/Chriscpb/Feature/3%20FTH-15.jpg)
I am limited in skills and tooling so drilling out and re tapping is beyond my capabilities. I have thought about drilling a hole in the center of the post, gluing an alan key inside and use the 90 degree bend in the alan key as leverage to try and screw the post out? It's one idea I have at the moment but I will wait and see what you experts would do in the same situation? ;)
Steve
Hi Steve --
No use making it over complicated --
The right approach would be to make a small drill hole in the snapped off center piece -- then just use an easy-out extractor to back it out with a T handle for steady torque and leverage.
Plenty of room to accomplish this -- with no damage to the post/sleeve -- no rethreading should be required.
If you do not want to do this yourself -- just find a small local machine shop or appliance repair shop -- they will likely have the tools, and charge you around 5 bucks, or free?
Then just get another handle nut.
Or send it to someone close to you on this Board -- and they could help out, I am sure.
I can't recall offhand if that is right or left threaded? Maybe that is why it snapped off?
I think it is right hand on a typical reel. With the crank on the right side -- and left hand with the crank on the left.
Best,
Fred
Does anyone have a source for smaller diameter, quality scew extractors?
I have been using the larger ones with some sucess, but have not been able to find ones that work on smaller screws (like those holding the ratchet or drag plates). I usually have to drill them out, sometimes with a slightly larger diameter, and retap. Any advice here would be appreciated. Don't mean to threadjack.
A left hand drill bit will sometimes grab the broken screw, if it's a RH thread.
If all else fails a new 98-FTH20LW Main Gear Shaft is only $6.85 and you will need to order a 23-FTH20LW Handel Screw anyway ($4.15). Grease the threads when you put the new handle screw on.
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/98-FTH20LW.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/98-FTH20LW.aspx)
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Thanks for the advice so far. The easy out extractor seems to be the solution I'm favouring. I just need an extractor kit, hopefully a friend may have what I need.
The handle nuts threads are right handed (righty tighty). I've already serviced 3 fathom 15's, but it had to be the last one of the four which had to give me a headache. :-\
Most good hobby shops have mini screw extractors, as do electronics stores like Fry's.
Plenty on the internet also.
No need to spend too much -- just get decent such as Irwin, Kawasaki, etc..
I use a set that were probably very old when I acquired them used 20 years ago -- never broke one yet.
A nearly straight, not very tapered works the best for me on the small screws. 5/64" or smaller. Anything less than that just gets drilled out and retapped. Or just stick a smaller diameter screw in the hole you drilled -- after tapping the metal. Lots of ways to skin a cat.
Best,
Fred
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx130/foakes1/100_3305_zpsmbmay8hv.jpg) (http://s748.photobucket.com/user/foakes1/media/100_3305_zpsmbmay8hv.jpg.html)
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx130/foakes1/100_3304_zpskwlonpnh.jpg) (http://s748.photobucket.com/user/foakes1/media/100_3304_zpskwlonpnh.jpg.html)
Wow Fred..that was quick. Straighter tapered extractors seem the way to go on these smaller screws. Thanks for the advice!
That set you have looks to almost be a collectors item.
While we are on the topic of extractors and taps...
Any advice on how to remove a broken tap from a smaller hole? I've heard the correct/quslity punch can help to shatter the frabile reminants of broken tap, but have had some trouble here..ocassiinally mind you.
I should have maybe started a different thread.
Quote from: Tightlines666 on May 22, 2015, 10:06:23 PM
Wow Fred..that was quick. Staighter tapered extractors seem the way to go on these smaller screws. Thanks for the advice!
That set you have looks to almost be a collectors item.
While we are on the topic of extractors and taps...
Any advice on how to remove a broken tap from a smaller hole? I've heard the correct/quslity punch can help to shatter the frabile reminants of broken tap, but have had some trouble here..ocassiinally mind you.
I should have maybe started a different thread.
John lightly tap some headless nails down each side of the tap and remove by turning it out with a small set of pliers or vice grips. Dominick
Quote from: Dominick on May 22, 2015, 10:43:32 PM
Quote from: Tightlines666 on May 22, 2015, 10:06:23 PM
Wow Fred..that was quick. Staighter tapered extractors seem the way to go on these smaller screws. Thanks for the advice!
That set you have looks to almost be a collectors item.
While we are on the topic of extractors and taps...
Any advice on how to remove a broken tap from a smaller hole? I've heard the correct/quslity punch can help to shatter the frabile reminants of broken tap, but have had some trouble here..ocassiinally mind you.
I should have maybe started a different thread.
John lightly tap some headless nails down each side of the tap and remove by turning it out with a small set of pliers or vice grips. Dominick
Good advice for extracting most typical broken taps, but I don't think I can find pins small/strong enough for a much smaller tap...maybe just stuck drilling it out. I was just thinking the correct punch might aid in the process. I really need a drill press for drilling out hardened material from surrounding soft materials. I feel like I am pretty good with hand tools, but the bit really wants to wander in these instances.
John
My sense of things is that Penn would be happy to take care of this under warranty. ;)
Quote from: foakes on May 22, 2015, 09:32:57 PM
Most good hobby shops have mini screw extractors, as do electronics stores like Fry's.
Plenty on the internet also.
No need to spend too much -- just get decent such as Irwin, Kawasaki, etc..
I use a set that were probably very old when I acquired them used 20 years ago -- never broke one yet.
A nearly straight, not very tapered works the best for me on the small screws. 5/64" or smaller. Anything less than that just gets drilled out and retapped. Or just stick a smaller diameter screw in the hole you drilled -- after tapping the metal. Lots of ways to skin a cat.
Best,
Fred
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx130/foakes1/100_3305_zpsmbmay8hv.jpg) (http://s748.photobucket.com/user/foakes1/media/100_3305_zpsmbmay8hv.jpg.html)
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx130/foakes1/100_3304_zpskwlonpnh.jpg) (http://s748.photobucket.com/user/foakes1/media/100_3304_zpskwlonpnh.jpg.html)
Fred, when I do come over to visit, I'm going to need a couple of days, one day will not be enough to see all of your cool stuff. ;D
Looking forward to that, Sal -- got a couple more sets like this -- along with some imported ones.
This came from an older gentleman who repaired reels and tied flies since 1940.
Bought all of his shop inventory and tools from the family many years ago.
You should see my collection of English and Early American carving tools from around 1900.
Plus a good set of nearly every type of metal engraving tool.
Best,
Fred
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx130/foakes1/100_3306_zpsrbfaemno.jpg) (http://s748.photobucket.com/user/foakes1/media/100_3306_zpsrbfaemno.jpg.html)
Quote from: Keta on May 22, 2015, 08:05:58 PM
A left hand drill bit will sometimes grab the broken screw, if it's a RH thread.
If all else fails a new 98-FTH20LW Main Gear Shaft is only $6.85 and you will need to order a 23-FTH20LW Handel Screw anyway ($4.15). Grease the threads when you put the new handle screw on.
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/98-FTH20LW.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/98-FTH20LW.aspx)
That's what I have used on many of them that break like this. Drill a hole with a regular but then use the LH bit to screw it right out. It's not tight b/c it's straight threads.
I just remembered I had to deal with a similar problem, here is what worked for me:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=8753.msg77697#msg77697
Sal
Thanks for the added contributions. The bolts post is still stuck in place as I haven't managed to get the correct tools to get the job done. I will update this thread when possible. Thanks again!
This happen to me. On the same day i got it. I just returned. :(
If this happened to you as well, there is definitely a problem with the design.
Quote from: Alto Mare on May 24, 2015, 04:32:02 PM
If this happened to you as well, there is definitely a problem with the design.
Yep, sounds like the Part wasn't hardened properly. :(
Seems like a fair number of the modern Penn parts are not as good as we used to be able to count on -- unfortunately.
Likely has to do with the lowest bidder -- when it comes to suppliers -- particularly with some of the Asian offerings.
Just my opinion based on what comes across the bench nowadays.
Best,
Fred
Quote from: foakes on May 24, 2015, 05:13:31 PM
Seems like a fair number of the modern Penn parts are not as good as we used to be able to count on -- unfortunately.
Likely has to do with the lowest bidder -- when it comes to suppliers -- particularly with some of the Asian offerings.
Just my opinion based on what comes across the bench nowadays.
Best,
Fred
To be fair, everyone that sources parts in China runs up against the same problems, particularly with a new series of reel.
When they first come out we can only look at the overall design intent and speculate as to how things should hold up...then we have to wait and see when production models get field tested to see how they actually executed the design and manufacturing of the parts.
This sort of issue with the handle nut is only possible due to a supplier either skipping the hardening step (too soft) or making them too hard (and too brittle so they crack).
Standard "teething issues" in a newly manufactured part from people trying to maximize their profit. There is only so much you can do to quality control final production before people start finding the small problems on their own.
Yep,
I agree, John.
Best,
Fred
Quote from: Alto Mare on May 24, 2015, 04:32:02 PM
If this happened to you as well, there is definitely a problem with the design.
this is why i hate when buying made in china penn imho.
Could be as simple as tapped too tight. :-\
It boils down to the company and their standards -- there are many thousands of good companies and millions of good products coming out of Asia.
In many cases, some of the products are actually better.
Problems occur when companies try to cut corners to save a few cents -- a part may look the same as what we are used to seeing -- but under actual usage, failure rates go off the chart. This is generally due to a poor alloy recipe, softer materials, not enough hardening -- or too much, poor fit, cheaper chroming, and other things -- all relating to saving $$$.
Anyone who has done manufacturing in China recently, will attest to the fact that corruption, under the table pay-offs, and outright deception -- is not only rampant -- but is expected, and the government turns a blind eye as long as all is going well.
No manufacturer can make every part required for a particular product -- items must be sourced out to smaller suppliers.
In many cases, it is cheaper for American companies to source parts from China -- for products manufactured in the US.
So, we just have to base our buying decisions on experience and ratings. And then hope for the best.
And some of it is our own fault -- we are not willing to pay what it costs for US made comparable products.
We go for the less expensive options -- sometimes it is OK, sometimes not so much.
Check the labeling on your clothes, shoes, TVs, appliances, basically everything we buy -- most will be from Asia.
Just another opinion.
Best,
Fred
Quote from: bestout on May 24, 2015, 07:21:34 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on May 24, 2015, 04:32:02 PM
If this happened to you as well, there is definitely a problem with the design.
this is why i hate when buying made in china penn imho.
I think you will find Penn is very responsive to these issues.
Bear in mind that this sort of thing is simple to fix and you are looking at a relatively new to the market reel with probably new suppliers now that Penn is owned by Pure Fishing.
Point being, the older Penn reels made in China were very bad, but that is to be expected when you have lesser resources and are working with factories that have little interest in your long term business. Now Penn has real muscle to get this sorted out and for such a simple issue it won't take long.
Talk to Tony in the Penn Service Center. He will have a new part in the mail to you on Monday with no questions asked. Probably a batch issue that the factory screwed up on (pun alert ;) )...but they probably have another batch of parts in stock that don't have the issue.
ps. If you can't remove it then Penn will do it for you I am quite sure as well. But you will have to send the reel to them.