Warning...Warning... Leave now! ;D
This may get me in some trouble, but I am going to speak up here... This is not aimed at any one company, but the many that are popping up selling the same reel!
It is really frustrating to see so many companies (mainly on the east coast) jump on this copy bandwagon. All these reels come from essentially the same place and have the same design. I used to work extensively in the golf club manufacturing industry and once all the manufacturing moved over to China, this exact thing started to happen. The only difference is that we actually still make reels in the USA..in the golf club world, the entire industry got moved overseas..machines, engineers and all!! :'( So now you have all these new golf club companies coming out that all use the exact same designed clubhead, from the same factory, just put a different name on it and spend a bunch on the marketing side. No one will ever admit to it and they will have a million reasons around it, but it is the truth.
This exact thing is happening in fishing reels. All these companies will say whatever they need or have to say to get things sold. Designed in the US...made from parts all over the world...our own design after many years of development...The only designing that happened in the USA was when Avet designed the SX. Just call it like it is!!! Please!! This is an Avet copy made overseas...pure and simple! It's ok! Just say so and let the reel do the talking! If it fishes well and is dependable, it won't matter! And please, please, please don't say it has 20-50lbs of drag if the handle binds at 6-8lbs and the only AR you have on the reel is a single AR bearing!!!
I am/was looking at being a rep in SoCal for one of these overseas reel companies as a entry-level, startup reel in an upcoming line of reels would be made entirely in the USA. The difference is that I would only be selling them for around $125! And I would probably not sell a single reel without a complete service first, which would be included in the price! If you are paying over $200 for any reel that looks like these.. believe me, you are making someone a rich man!
In fact, if you guys want these reels, I just need a group order of around 50 reels and I will get them and sell them for $125 fully serviced all day! Throw in $5 if you want the thrust bearing upgrade discussed in my previous handle binding article.
I could go on & on.. but to sum it up, these little import copies aren't bad..they are very light(good), cast well once serviced(good), and are made from solid stock(good). I just feel it is ridiculous that all these new companies are getting hooked up with these overseas manufacturers and just slapping their name on the reel and then saying it is their own design and that it is the best because _____... and then charging these prices. They are all working off the same design and none of them warrant a $200 price tag! I will single out and applaud Omoto for having a different design and fixing some glaring flaws with most of these imports (no AR dogs, brass gears and no bait & strike position on the drag lever) and charging $179 (see VS12). But you still only have an SX essentially..
When you show me a lever drag reel completely made in the USA for $200 or less that has SS Gears, CF drags, AR Bearing & Silent Dogs, Fully Greased non-spool bearings & lightly oiled spool bearings,a solid Aluminum frame, Thrust bearings to prevent handle binding, at least Type III Anodizing, then I will be impressed! Oh wait, that is what I plan to release! PM me if you are interested in a reel like that! ;D
-Aaron
Just to clarify here, I am specifically talking about the small one & two speed jigging reels that are being imported by many different companies under many different names. They are all about the size of an SX. This is why I singled out Omoto, I am not grouping them in the same category as the reels that I am talking about as they have their own design and specs.
thats thrown the cat amongst the pidgeons.whoopee!
I always enjoy your expressions Wallace! "thown the cat among the pigeons"! Priceless! ;D ;D ;D Don't think I have heard that one!
Aaron: I'd hate to hear a maxi-rant. Good job. Said without trashing any one company. Wallace always come up with those Fair Dinkums. Dominick
I'm confused. Who is making knock offs and where are they sold?
Beber, I prefer not to name names here. I am sure if you do a google search for "jigging reels" there are bound to be some that pop up. You will know by the fact that although there are many different companies, the reels will all look almost identical.
Quote from: beber on March 29, 2011, 07:58:46 PM
I'm confused. Who is making knock offs and where are they sold?
The Chinese are making them for sale in the USA.
Quote from: Irish Jigger on March 29, 2011, 09:00:15 PM
Quote from: beber on March 29, 2011, 07:58:46 PM
I'm confused. Who is making knock offs and where are they sold?
The Chinese are making them for sale in the USA.
Oh, I guess I have never seen any of these. I have noticed a lot of store brands reels with a close resemblence to Okuma reels.
RANT ALL YOU WANT! I understand, too many knockoffs out there. Now, when is your reels going to be ready? I need a true 25LB line reel, just go local YT fishing. Let me know Aaron. Yea, this is Nacho
I guess chinese junk is more than just a boat!!
It's probably worth remembering that any factory can produce good or bad products, anywhere in the world.
Van Staals are manufactured in China, but the tolerances and quality are among the best in the market.
So 'caveat emptor' is perhaps truer now than ever before...
Good luck to us all! ;) ;D
Cheers, Justin
Quote from: Fishead on June 11, 2012, 05:10:42 PM
I guess chinese junk is more than just a boat!!
I have a PRC built Penn that is well built, you can't say all PRC built reels are junk.
Any more news on your reels?
The majority of us on here spend most of our down fishing time tinkering with reels, whether it is hotrodding them or repairing them, and so forth. I purchase my reels on that auction site and repair them for friends and myself to use. I am almost entirely a P-nn reel person and where and what I fish for these reels perform great. Any of the older reels in my opinion are better than the cheap made new stuff. We all know why things are no longer produced in this great country. Everyone wants to save a buck and now our American workers are no longer able to produce things they use to build by their hands. I am 65 yoa and if a tackle company opened up here in the USA and showed that they could build a quality product, I would rather spend a hundred bucks more for it and know that Bubba down the street made it with his hands and his family can have a good meal from his earnings. Those days will never return. As for me I will keep buying old stuff that is fun to work on and give to someone or a kid a reel to show him how we use to make things in the old days. Okay my soapbox is started to cave in so tight lines to all.
You have that. It's called Accurate and Avet.
Hi Bryan I was aware of the two reels you mentioned. I want get into a debate over this reel versus this reel. It would be like chevy vs ford. I am glad to see that these two companies are US made. They dont fit my specs and I dont want to list my specs. It is only my likes and dislikes that I base this on, and I know alot of people can give me all the pros as to why I should own one or the other. I have fished with both brands and they were owned by friends of mine. Tight lines my friend.
Buahahahaha, I forgot Penn still makes reels here in the US.
yes sireeee, and that is over 98% of my fishing arsenal. Go Penn and hopefully they will bring all the penns back home.
I would love to get one at the estimated price for my 5' daugther who had a hard time with the large reels used for Alaska halibut.
Quote from: Bryan Young on August 03, 2012, 04:57:29 PM
Buahahahaha, I forgot Penn still makes reels here in the US.
You forgot Penn???? What have you been drinking, and what kind of meds are you on? Can't be you're getting "long of tooth" and "short of recall".
That's like saying you don't know a guy named Sal who modifies reels (maybe even worse). :)
Makule, that's because I cannot afford any of the USA made reels Penn makes.
Quote from: ReelSpeed on March 26, 2011, 06:44:38 PM
I am/was looking at being a rep in SoCal for one of these overseas reel companies as a entry-level, startup reel in an upcoming line of reels would be made entirely in the USA. The difference is that I would only be selling them for around $125! And I would probably not sell a single reel without a complete service first, which would be included in the price! If you are paying over $200 for any reel that looks like these.. believe me, you are making someone a rich man!
When you show me a lever drag reel completely made in the USA for $200 or less that has SS Gears, CF drags, AR Bearing & Silent Dogs, Fully Greased non-spool bearings & lightly oiled spool bearings,a solid Aluminum frame, Thrust bearings to prevent handle binding, at least Type III Anodizing, then I will be impressed! Oh wait, that is what I plan to release! PM me if you are interested in a reel like that! ;D
-Aaron
So, whatever happened about these reels you were talking about ???
Quote from: ez2cdave on December 19, 2013, 02:34:41 AM
Quote from: ReelSpeed on March 26, 2011, 06:44:38 PM
I am/was looking at being a rep in SoCal for one of these overseas reel companies as a entry-level, startup reel in an upcoming line of reels would be made entirely in the USA. The difference is that I would only be selling them for around $125! And I would probably not sell a single reel without a complete service first, which would be included in the price! If you are paying over $200 for any reel that looks like these.. believe me, you are making someone a rich man!
When you show me a lever drag reel completely made in the USA for $200 or less that has SS Gears, CF drags, AR Bearing & Silent Dogs, Fully Greased non-spool bearings & lightly oiled spool bearings,a solid Aluminum frame, Thrust bearings to prevent handle binding, at least Type III Anodizing, then I will be impressed! Oh wait, that is what I plan to release! PM me if you are interested in a reel like that! ;D
-Aaron
So, whatever happened about these reels you were talking about ???
Thats what I'm wondering!
Quote from: ez2cdave on December 19, 2013, 02:34:41 AM
Quote from: ReelSpeed on March 26, 2011, 06:44:38 PM
I am/was looking at being a rep in SoCal for one of these overseas reel companies as a entry-level, startup reel in an upcoming line of reels would be made entirely in the USA. The difference is that I would only be selling them for around $125! And I would probably not sell a single reel without a complete service first, which would be included in the price! If you are paying over $200 for any reel that looks like these.. believe me, you are making someone a rich man!
When you show me a lever drag reel completely made in the USA for $200 or less that has SS Gears, CF drags, AR Bearing & Silent Dogs, Fully Greased non-spool bearings & lightly oiled spool bearings,a solid Aluminum frame, Thrust bearings to prevent handle binding, at least Type III Anodizing, then I will be impressed! Oh wait, that is what I plan to release! PM me if you are interested in a reel like that! ;D
-Aaron
So, whatever happened about these reels you were talking about ???
I think they found the error in the maths on the business plan and set up manufacture in china.
I, too, am a classicist: I love buying and upgrading the old USA-made Penn reels, because they have never let me down. In over five decades of fishing, I've lost plenty of fish, but never once because of a reel malfunction. As the saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Nothing like an oldie but goodie! (I mean the reels, not me.) ;D
~A~
Quote from: Aiala on April 01, 2014, 04:29:02 PM
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
just modify/better/improve it... :)
I'm not an economist (nor would I like to be) but I can understand that it's a difficult market if you want to produce something with little compromise when it comes to quality and materials. There is already a lot of those reels out there for sale and most of us owns many. They were made sometimes decades ago but will continue to serve their master with a little love and attention. And for the most part they are, in relation to their quality, dirt cheap. For instance, here in Sweden, since the collector's value is quite low for old fishing reels, you can buy an 70's Ambassadeur 7000 for 80-90$. Superb quality. As a manufacturer you haven't got a chance to compete with that with a new reel.
It's like toothbrushes and razors. They reached their technical peak a long time ago and all companies can do now is to come up with new, made up, improvements and sell it by massive PR.
Quote from: Mel B on April 01, 2014, 08:58:27 PM
Quote from: Aiala on April 01, 2014, 04:29:02 PM
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
just modify/better/improve it... :)
A-yuh... and the possibilities are almost limitless! :D
~
A~
The Chinese also make some very good and expensive reels. They can manufacture to a low or high budget.
Quote from: basto on April 02, 2014, 04:48:46 AM
The Chinese also make some very good and expensive reels. They can manufacture to a low or high budget.
like the JMs...
I am constantly amazed by the new rhetoric they come up with to hock off toothbrushes & razors. Technology has given us major advances in bearings, lubricants, machining tolerances, braid, mono, composite materials & alloys. These have real features and benefits when it comes to fishing reel production for function, cost & reliability. The newest reel I have is a Shimano Stradic 4000FJ it is superbly balanced & smooth better than the Shimano bait-runner series reels I own. This due to a newer design & materials. Technology is good when advances products for the end user, not so good when it is used for hype or to cut corners for the for sheer economics. I would be surprised if anyone is still fishing with horse hair or cat gut. Even die hard fly fishermen no longer use silk lines. I'm sure anglers like Isaac Walton & Zane Grey fished with the best materials & technology they had available at the time.
Rgds
Mark
Now that you mention it Mark, I have a bone to pick... ;D
I have to fish a Stradic 4000FJ now since my 4000FL (2011-12) took a dive overboard. >:(
I'm not a fan of the newer models "bling", added features, redesign, or pearly finish.
The older model was much better. Equally as smooth, but better built..with interchangeable spools... AND a free extra.
;)
Shimano made us all bend over and accept the FJ as a better reel... hogwash.
Hi Erik,
Having not had any Stradic models before I am not really qualified to comment. I completely agree with you on the spare spool issue a miserly cost saving measure by an accountant who in all likelihood has never seen the sea. I thought some of the original Stradic's were white? & Erik a Kiwi would have no hesitation in diving over the side in a heroic effort to save a beloved rod or reel. ;D
Rgds
Mark
Quote from: MFB on April 02, 2014, 07:51:33 AM
I am constantly amazed by the new rhetoric they come up with to hock off toothbrushes & razors. Technology has given us major advances in bearings, lubricants, machining tolerances, braid, mono, composite materials & alloys. These have real features and benefits when it comes to fishing reel production for function, cost & reliability. The newest reel I have is a Shimano Stradic 4000FJ it is superbly balanced & smooth better than the Shimano bait-runner series reels I own. This due to a newer design & materials. Technology is good when advances products for the end user, not so good when it is used for hype or to cut corners for the for sheer economics. I would be surprised if anyone is still fishing with horse hair or cat gut. Even die hard fly fishermen no longer use silk lines. I'm sure anglers like Isaac Walton & Zane Grey fished with the best materials & technology they had available at the time.
Rgds
Mark
Mark,
I'm very aware that the technological progress hasn't stood still and I'm glad for it! But in a lot of products you don't notice that. They use inferior materials, lesser tolerances, etc, etc. We have the technology to build superior products but they would be too expensive so we don't. As a general rule.
And we (the customers) have a part of the responsibility. We WANT new models and new inventions, but we don't want to pay a fortune.
A lot of them are throw away reels having no spares as a back up :(
Its all economic and made to price points.
I've played a lot of computer games earlier and my son plays a lot now. And it's really interesting to see that many of the more popular games that live on for a long time are games that are possible for end users to write mods for and come up with new characters, maps, gadgets and stuff. Basically improve the game or at least make it a different experience than it had from the start. And I sometimes think of my passion for reels in the same way. I want them to be a good basic reel from the start but with a possibility to hot rod it with after market parts or DIY stuff. That's what I love with Penn and Ambassadeur.
Most things can be improved, but you can't turn lead into gold. It's easier to make a good product excellent, much harder to make a below average product good. It's about using the best information and materials that you can afford & have available to you at the time. I'm not against modifications, even Appletons Rum can be improved with the addition of ice. :)
Rgds
Mark
Quote from: MFB on April 02, 2014, 06:36:29 PM
Most things can be improved, but you can't turn lead into gold. It's easier to make a good product excellent, much harder to make a below average product good. It's about using the best information and materials that you can afford & have available to you at the time. I'm not against modifications, even Appletons Rum can be improved with the addition of ice. :)
Rgds
Mark
X2
But rum is best served without ice! ;) Maybe with a pinch of black powder like Blackbeard used to take with his, but please no ice...
:)
Karl
I only add ice during summer, In winter I usually add 1 part Stone's green ginger wine to 2 parts Appleton's. This is for medicinal purposes only as it prevents scurvy, leprosy, & the black plague. :)
Rgds
Mark
The only thing to have with a rum is another one!! ;D
Mike.
Quote from: Aiala on April 01, 2014, 04:29:02 PMNothing like an oldie but goodie! (I mean the reels, not me.) ;D
Ooh, I love it when you talk "old school", Aiala . . . LOL !!!
Quote from: ReelSpeed on March 26, 2011, 06:44:38 PMWhen you show me a lever drag reel completely made in the USA for $200 or less that has SS Gears, CF drags, AR Bearing & Silent Dogs, Fully Greased non-spool bearings & lightly oiled spool bearings,a solid Aluminum frame, Thrust bearings to prevent handle binding, at least Type III Anodizing, then I will be impressed! Oh wait, that is what I plan to release! PM me if you are interested in a reel like that! ;D
-Aaron
OK . . . Where are your reels ???
Quote from: ez2cdave on June 06, 2015, 11:13:22 PM
Quote from: ReelSpeed on March 26, 2011, 06:44:38 PMWhen you show me a lever drag reel completely made in the USA for $200 or less that has SS Gears, CF drags, AR Bearing & Silent Dogs, Fully Greased non-spool bearings & lightly oiled spool bearings,a solid Aluminum frame, Thrust bearings to prevent handle binding, at least Type III Anodizing, then I will be impressed! Oh wait, that is what I plan to release! PM me if you are interested in a reel like that! ;D
-Aaron
OK . . . Where are your reels ???
Yeah? I wondered that about 1-1/2yrs ago and figured someone messed up the maths and later realised it wasn't going to happen.
Right on Karl, a pinch of black powder makes all alcohol better, especially moonshine :o "made by Bubba down the street with his own hands" ;D
Quote from: OldSchool on June 25, 2015, 04:08:15 AM
Quote from: ez2cdave on June 06, 2015, 11:13:22 PM
Quote from: ReelSpeed on March 26, 2011, 06:44:38 PMWhen you show me a lever drag reel completely made in the USA for $200 or less that has SS Gears, CF drags, AR Bearing & Silent Dogs, Fully Greased non-spool bearings & lightly oiled spool bearings,a solid Aluminum frame, Thrust bearings to prevent handle binding, at least Type III Anodizing, then I will be impressed! Oh wait, that is what I plan to release! PM me if you are interested in a reel like that! ;D
-Aaron
OK . . . Where are your reels ???
Yeah? I wondered that about 1-1/2yrs ago and figured someone messed up the maths and later realised it wasn't going to happen.
Last active May 19, 2013, 09:27:56 PM
I am old school and use my Old well serviced and upgraded Penn reels. My oldest reel that I purchase is a Penn 500 JigMaster 1953 when I was 12. My last trip I landed 2 nice yellowfin tuna on it, fun using old stuff.
The new stuff is cool and I am not putting it down but I just don't have time to wear them out :).
Beware CANYON REELS . . .
http://www.canyonreels.com/ (http://www.canyonreels.com/)
http://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/cny65.html (http://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/cny65.html)
http://www.alanhawk.com/blog/rebdd.html (http://www.alanhawk.com/blog/rebdd.html)
http://www.alanhawk.com/blog/scams.html (http://www.alanhawk.com/blog/scams.html)
Tight Lines !
An interesting read . . . From 2007.
http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/topic/167693-reel-talk-whos-making-what-for-who/ (http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/topic/167693-reel-talk-whos-making-what-for-who/)
Tight Lines !