Here is the deal...
Spent 2 hours last night removing a crank handle keeper pin on a DAM Quick Super — plus a tapered stand keeper screw on the same reel.
Typically, they are seldom so hard — but when these are used in salt, or not serviced properly, the combination of aluminum alloy cranks and steel pins causes some sort of a chemical welding bond.
Soaked in Kroil for a couple of hours, then ended up saving the unreplaceable aluminum alloy crank by drilling out the screw and pin.
Still was touch and go...
In 40+ years, I have never lost a patient or gave up on any reel. This came the closest though...
Broke a 1/16" punch, and (2) drill bits.
I have about (35) Supers, (17) 265 Microlites, and possibly (50) Finessa 280/285 that have these types of aluminum alloy cranks — and I am intending to restore them to original for clients and AT members. Not going to hang onto them — but they need to be as perfect as possible with new parts and restoration.
So it looks like a better pin removal system is in order —
What would you suggest/recommend? Bearing press, vise jig, some other tool?
Appreciate your advice, and will need to purchase something right away. Got a lot lined up on the runway.
Thanks!
Fred
even if it's not big/sturdy enough, YOU could make something based on the same principle:
https://www.hedgehog-studio.co.jp/product/2
Those type pin tools would not even come close to removing these pins. I think a machined item for the vise would be the way to go. A steady press is the way to go. I doubt pin pliers would do it but they will help with the easy ones.
Keith
I will get that reel mailed to you..
From an industrial perspective, my go-to for steel and stainless stuck in an aluminum part is heat. The aluminum will expand more than the steel when you heat it up, giving some extra clearance. A heat gun should be adequate for most reel parts, and get it as hot as you reasonably can (200+ if the finish will be ok). Sometimes heat cycling it a few times will loosen it more than just working it the first time you heat it.
Something like a bench block used in gunsmithing to support the piece while you tap the pin out may help too. Just make sure it can withstand the heat used above.
Agree with Adam on both his idea's. I have an old D550 Weller soldering gun that I've been using for years for frozen screws. It 550 watts and if you use it for any length of time, you can barely hang onto it.
The better you can nest the part, keep it straight and rigid, the better it will be.
Use a short of a punch tip as possible, even if you have to have several in incremental lengths to get the pin out. You'll get a better impact with the short tip.
Lastly, if that doesn't work, consider a block to nest the part with 2 locating pins in it. A top plate that will slide up and down on the pins and a hole in the top plate to hold and locate the punch over the pin.
Not and expert by any means, just in and out of trouble on more than one occasion.
By the way, Kroil is old school and absolutely the best stuff around!
Let us know how you make out and have a great evening.
............Lou
I agree with the heat. Sometimes melting some candle wax on it once it's heated up will help a lot as well.
Maybe a tool could be made that can be used in an arbor press?
Fred I know my brother Jeff could make some kind of jig for you.
He is at the tail end of moving his shop so I would need to make sure his Mill is up and running.
He is great at knocking out this kind of one off stuff , let me know if you want me to check.
He is located in Fresno.
Best ,
Jonathan
Thanks for everyone's advice so far —
All good!
And thanks for the reel, Keith. PM me what I owe for it, or what you could use in trade —and it will be done.
Leaning towards some kind of a hydraulic bearing press with a Jacob's chuck attached so that it would accept various punches. Then I would use a cradle made from Oak to rest the crank, gears, axles into.
This may be overkill, and only needed a few times —but that sucker last night took 20 blows with a 16 oz. hammer — no movement in the slightest — just like trying to pound a punch through a 1/2" chunk of flat steel. I think heat, Kroil, and a press with a custom jig may be the way to go.
Thanks for the idea with your brother, Jonathan. Sounds good. Please check with him.
Tonight we are having the last of the fish you brought over. I am making fish tacos with Louisiana Spicy batter.
The fish was fantastic every time — Thanks again!
Been splitting wood since 8:00 this morning, taking a bath — then , making dinner.
Best,
Fred
:o I know i have and believe Sal has also been down that road , were that pin was not leaving .
It did bruise the ego , as a mechanic with all the tools and the ability to heat the aluminum and cool the steel pin ,short punch and big hammer it laugh at me .
I am no slouch with a hammer either .
I have two drill press that i have tried to use as pin press with no luck .
After drilling through the pin it still did not give up.
IF i ever come up against this again i will make an adapter for a bottle jack press.
Things happen in 3s Hopefully nobody else has to deal with the death grip pin.
Ahh yes...the handle pin struggle...this struggle is real. Wish I had advise to offer Fred, but you've covered all the bases better than the rest of us when it comes to this reel servicing anomaly. 8)
I'm with Mo Fred,
If anyone can figure it out. Its you.
I'm all about the BFH, when I need it.
A Hydraulic press is in order here.
I have access to this kind of equipment at my work.
I use it when I need it.
No expert here, but I did have the pleasure of running into this situation as well.
I've noticed 4 kinds of pins on these reels, not sure if it is so, someone might have placed a different one in at some point.
Those were straight pins, tapered, spline and the most common roll/spring pin.
The roll pin will usually fold with pressure and lock itself in more than it was when started, no choice but a drill at this point.
For the hard to deal with, I will usually use penetrating oil and some heat, it works, but not always.
I have a 1 ton press that does wonders on these reels, but hasn't been able to get all the pins out.
I have a piece of Azek that I rest my handle on, it doesn't rest nicely on the press, but some shims and a hot glue gun would help making it easier. The Azek gets pressed and takes the shape of the handle.
I will then use a hex bit of the same size as the pin, I wouldn't mind if it was a hair larger.
The bit is usually 2" length and yes I have broken those as well on occasions, but they are a little tougher than a punch.
On a used reel that has been beat up, it might be hard to see, but on the 270, the head of the pin is larger on one side, I place the punch on the smaller head.
When all fails, I grab my drill and drill it out.
A new cobalt drill bit and some cutting oil will help, just go nice and slow.
My one ton press does a lot for me, I would think the hydraulic press might be a bit much, but as we say in our world...whatever floats your boat :).
Good luck Fred!
Sal
Stubborns are definitely frustrating. Most Dam pins I've encountered were splined so I try to back them out. Rolled take an exact diameter punch otherwise they spread. Those are a couple of basics that finally sunk in for me.
I'll tap them and if they don't move a little I'll always try to prep them with vinegar first & penetrating oil second. Vinegar usually works best due to galvanic, or other corrosion, not rust. I do have one little trick, though. Finish carpenters' nail sets have an indentation on the end until they've been worn out and become mushroomed. A newer nail set will stay centered on the pin better than a punch so I always have a high quality 1/32, 1/16 & 3/32 nail set available to start pin movement. Once the pin moves a little I'll go to the correct diameter punch, reground short punch first & longer versions as needed. A good hardwood base like oak, etc., is a must to protect the part. Works great for me and if I happen to bugger a pin I have some SS rod/wire to make a new one. Rolled pins are easy to get at the hardware store. :)
Nail set is a great idea for starting Tommy!
Thanks, .. Lou
Check out Brownell's gun smith supply they carry special punches for knocking out roll pins.
Alto Mare, how exactly do you go about pressing the handle into the Azek? I mean other the obvious using a press? Thanks, Joe.
Quote from: basenjib123 on July 22, 2018, 10:37:06 PM
Alto Mare, how exactly do you go about pressing the handle into the Azek? I mean other the obvious using a press? Thanks, Joe.
you sent me a message, check your pm, I answered you.
Sal
Got it, thanks a million Sal.
Here is the beast —
Just need to mount a Jacobs chuck for a nail set or pin punch — and it should remove a stubborn pin from a crank, gearsleeve, or gear axle.
Best,
Fred
Looks Great Fred!
Quote from: foakes on July 24, 2018, 12:48:30 AM
Here is the beast —
That boy...I say...that boy is gettin' serious now!
:o Don't get your finger caught in there, Fred! ;D
Hey Fred, I looked at that exact press today and didn't buy it when I noticed that there is only about 4" of working space beneath the ram. How will you be able to put a chuck on there and still have room to work? Even without a chuck, a punch on the end of the ram will leave you with no room left either. Can you post some photos of what you end up doing? Thanks, Joe.
Yes, I just need to modify the lower and secondary bracing and crossmembers — plus shorten the ram.
Might take a few days because of other ongoing projects that need completion first.
And I will post pics when done.
Best,
Fred
Ok Fred, some photos of what you have done would be great.