For those interested making original jigs, modifying existing jigs, or copying something that already exists.
Cost $111 per gallon of GT-1364 mold making silicone by GT products
I can get about 16 molds out of this. Works out to $6-7 per mold.
It easy to drill circles or cut slots with razor blade/ exacto on finished mold
Clean, primer, paint and epoxy coat. Add octopus skirt, quick skirt, and soft plastic trailer.
Not shown is corkscrew wire for adding soft plastic.
Really cool! Shared this :)
Thanks for the tutorial. Just last week I bought a 140# bucket of lead for cheap. Now I know how to use it. ;D
Nice!
I had previously tried this for prototyping jig head designs. I found that the molds degraded pretty rapidly. The silicone you are using states a max useful temp of 450 degrees F. Lead melts around 620.
I even tried some fancier higher heat silicone and lead alloy ( w/ bismuth?) that melts at a lower temp. But still the same results.
How many casts are you able to get out of a mold? And how large are the items that you are casting?
I am wondering if I am getting the lead too hot. IR thermometer is not very accurate on melted lead. Or maybe my heads are much larger (4-6oz). and the mold gets too hot to get away with it.
[For other folks considering doing this: the shelf life of these type of silicone products is typically not very long, even shorter after initially opening. Check the product specs for storage and shelf life. A layer of inert gas, even just some of the canned air products can help extend stored product that has been opened.
Make sure that the clay you use does not contain sulfur. It can inhibit the curing of some silicones.]
Thanks,
-J
Quote from: jurelometer on October 17, 2015, 08:58:22 PM
Nice!
I had previously tried this for prototyping jig head designs. I found that the molds degraded pretty rapidly. The silicone you are using states a max useful temp of 450 degrees F. Lead melts around 620.
I even tried some fancier higher heat silicone and lead alloy ( w/ bismuth?) that melts at a lower temp. But still the same results.
How many casts are you able to get out of a mold? And how large are the items that you are casting?
I am wondering if I am getting the lead too hot. IR thermometer is not very accurate on melted lead. Or maybe my heads are much larger (4-6oz). and the mold gets too hot to get away with it.
[For other folks considering doing this: the shelf life of these type of silicone products is typically not very long, even shorter after initially opening. Check the product specs for storage and shelf life. A layer of inert gas, even just some of the canned air products can help extend stored product that has been opened.
Make sure that the clay you use does not contain sulfur. It can inhibit the curing of some silicones.]
Thanks,
-J
thanks for the input, especially those with silicone mold experience. Sorry i'm not an expert. i've poured more than 3 dozen jigs 3-6 ozs. on a single mold. don't know what other options are available for the hobbyist fisherman. Tried bondo molds and they warped badly after a dozen pours. The advantages of silicone for me outweight disadvantages. Easy enough to duplicate the mold if damaged. Just put 1/2 the mold in a lego coffin with model, and pour a new half.
Quote from: jcool3 on October 17, 2015, 11:12:54 PM
Quote from: jurelometer on October 17, 2015, 08:58:22 PM
Nice!
I had previously tried this for prototyping jig head designs. I found that the molds degraded pretty rapidly. The silicone you are using states a max useful temp of 450 degrees F. Lead melts around 620.
I even tried some fancier higher heat silicone and lead alloy ( w/ bismuth?) that melts at a lower temp. But still the same results.
How many casts are you able to get out of a mold? And how large are the items that you are casting?
I am wondering if I am getting the lead too hot. IR thermometer is not very accurate on melted lead. Or maybe my heads are much larger (4-6oz). and the mold gets too hot to get away with it.
[For other folks considering doing this: the shelf life of these type of silicone products is typically not very long, even shorter after initially opening. Check the product specs for storage and shelf life. A layer of inert gas, even just some of the canned air products can help extend stored product that has been opened.
Make sure that the clay you use does not contain sulfur. It can inhibit the curing of some silicones.]
Thanks,
-J
thanks for the input, especially those with silicone mold experience. Sorry i'm not an expert. i've poured more than 3 dozen jigs 3-6 ozs. on a single mold. don't know what other options are available for the hobbyist fisherman. Tried bondo molds and they warped badly after a dozen pours. The advantages of silicone for me outweight disadvantages. Easy enough to duplicate the mold if damaged. Just put 1/2 the mold in a lego coffin with model, and pour a new half.
Thanks- that is useful information. My molds started getting crunchy after half a dozen pours so I am doing something wrong. I'm going to figure out how to measure my lead temp better. Maybe I am pouring a lot hotter than I think.
I really like silicone molds. I use it for soft plastics. It is easy to make shapes that would be difficult to cut into a an aluminum mold and the finish detail can be exceptional.
One other trick that has helped me if you don't have a vacuum chamber to degas all the bubbles before pouring the silicone: paint a fine layer of the silicone over the master before pouring the rest. Less likely to have a bubble on the mold surface.
-J.
Jcool3' here's an idea....how to recoup some expenditure on the silicone by selling a mold to two to me?
Interested? Send me a pm.
I have made a few pieces by sand casting but your jig molds seem such a better idea as a sand cast mold is a one pour shot each time. Not hard to do...just fine sand and motor oil. Mostly just to melt the lead down into useable slugs and ingots for now.
I have been shopping around looking at Do-it molds but don't see what I want, yet. An octopus head shape.
Something like a mix of these shapes. But not a blatant copy of someone else's.
Quote from: jurelometer on October 18, 2015, 12:02:07 AM
Quote from: jcool3 on October 17, 2015, 11:12:54 PM
Quote from: jurelometer on October 17, 2015, 08:58:22 PM
Nice!
I had previously tried this for prototyping jig head designs. I found that the molds degraded pretty rapidly. The silicone you are using states a max useful temp of 450 degrees F. Lead melts around 620.
I even tried some fancier higher heat silicone and lead alloy ( w/ bismuth?) that melts at a lower temp. But still the same results.
How many casts are you able to get out of a mold? And how large are the items that you are casting?
I am wondering if I am getting the lead too hot. IR thermometer is not very accurate on melted lead. Or maybe my heads are much larger (4-6oz). and the mold gets too hot to get away with it.
[For other folks considering doing this: the shelf life of these type of silicone products is typically not very long, even shorter after initially opening. Check the product specs for storage and shelf life. A layer of inert gas, even just some of the canned air products can help extend stored product that has been opened.
Make sure that the clay you use does not contain sulfur. It can inhibit the curing of some silicones.]
Thanks,
-J
thanks for the input, especially those with silicone mold experience. Sorry i'm not an expert. i've poured more than 3 dozen jigs 3-6 ozs. on a single mold. don't know what other options are available for the hobbyist fisherman. Tried bondo molds and they warped badly after a dozen pours. The advantages of silicone for me outweight disadvantages. Easy enough to duplicate the mold if damaged. Just put 1/2 the mold in a lego coffin with model, and pour a new half.
Thanks- that is useful information. My molds started getting crunchy after half a dozen pours so I am doing something wrong. I'm going to figure out how to measure my lead temp better. Maybe I am pouring a lot hotter than I think.
I really like silicone molds. I use it for soft plastics. It is easy to make shapes that would be difficult to cut into a an aluminum mold and the finish detail can be exceptional.
One other trick that has helped me if you don't have a vacuum chamber to degas all the bubbles before pouring the silicone: paint a fine layer of the silicone over the master before pouring the rest. Less likely to have a bubble on the mold surface.
-J.
what mold making silicone did you use? brand and hardness?
Quote from: jcool3 on October 20, 2015, 06:30:04 PM
[snip...]
what mold making silicone did you use? brand and hardness?
For pouring high heat - I have only tried Smooth-on Mold Max 60T (Shore 60A hardness) . It had the highest temp rating (560F) that I could find and is available in small amounts. ( Note that I was not successful pouring lead with this stuff). I am thinking of cutting AL molds instead, but the shapes are more limited.
For pouring soft plastics there are a bunch a vendors- none that stand out for me yet. Pouring viscosity and final hardness are the things to look at. The thinner the mix, the less bubbles in the mold- especially important if you don't vacuum degas. A harder mold will generally last longer, but usually has a higher pouring viscosity. I have gotten hundreds of swimbaits out of a 30A mold with no signs of degradation.
Quantum Silicones was recommended as a top brand, but I have not tried it yet. I think there are a couple retailers if you are in the USA.
-J
Quote from: jurelometer on October 21, 2015, 01:30:23 AM
Quote from: jcool3 on October 20, 2015, 06:30:04 PM
[snip...]
what mold making silicone did you use? brand and hardness?
For pouring high heat - I have only tried Smooth-on Mold Max 60T (Shore 60A hardness) . It had the highest temp rating (560F) that I could find and is available in small amounts. ( Note that I was not successful pouring lead with this stuff). I am thinking of cutting AL molds instead, but the shapes are more limited.
For pouring soft plastics there are a bunch a vendors- none that stand out for me yet. Pouring viscosity and final hardness are the things to look at. The thinner the mix, the less bubbles in the mold- especially important if you don't vacuum degas. A harder mold will generally last longer, but usually has a higher pouring viscosity. I have gotten hundreds of swimbaits out of a 30A mold with no signs of degradation.
Quantum Silicones was recommended as a top brand, but I have not tried it yet. I think there are a couple retailers if you are in the USA.
-J
Again, I am not an expert, but I think I know why you got poor results. You used a tin based mold making silicone. Early on, I did some research on the internet and settled on platinum based silicone as the way to
go. I forgot and cannot really explain why. Check out http://www.bassresource.com/bass-fishing-forums/topic/16086-using-silicone-for-a-mold-to-pour-lead/. For what its worth a member in the tacklemaking forum said "silicone will work fine for lead but you have to use platinum cure silicone. You also need to get a very firm silicone. Tin cure will not last long and it will distort. You will also need to build a good mold that is rienforced because even a good platinum silicone will want to distort after you pour a bunch of lead through it. One little tip, dust your mold with talc powder and the lead will pour much easier. I pour a bunch of talc in a sock and then zip tie it. I tap the pouch against the mold after each pour. "
I am on my second gallon of the gt products platinum cure silicone with no apparent durability problems ...
I cannot explain why gt lists 450F at high end of temp range, but when I pour lead I don't really pay attention to temp. ... I set between 6 and 7 on the dial lee production pot. (650-700F ???)
Quote from: jcool3 on October 21, 2015, 04:55:01 AM
Quote from: jurelometer on October 21, 2015, 01:30:23 AM
Quote from: jcool3 on October 20, 2015, 06:30:04 PM
[snip...]
what mold making silicone did you use? brand and hardness?
For pouring high heat - I have only tried Smooth-on Mold Max 60T (Shore 60A hardness) . It had the highest temp rating (560F) that I could find and is available in small amounts. ( Note that I was not successful pouring lead with this stuff). I am thinking of cutting AL molds instead, but the shapes are more limited.
For pouring soft plastics there are a bunch a vendors- none that stand out for me yet. Pouring viscosity and final hardness are the things to look at. The thinner the mix, the less bubbles in the mold- especially important if you don't vacuum degas. A harder mold will generally last longer, but usually has a higher pouring viscosity. I have gotten hundreds of swimbaits out of a 30A mold with no signs of degradation.
Quantum Silicones was recommended as a top brand, but I have not tried it yet. I think there are a couple retailers if you are in the USA.
-J
Again, I am not an expert, but I think I know why you got poor results. You used a tin based mold making silicone. Early on, I did some research on the internet and settled on platinum based silicone as the way to
go. I forgot and cannot really explain why. Check out http://www.bassresource.com/bass-fishing-forums/topic/16086-using-silicone-for-a-mold-to-pour-lead/. For what its worth a member in the tacklemaking forum said "silicone will work fine for lead but you have to use platinum cure silicone. You also need to get a very firm silicone. Tin cure will not last long and it will distort. You will also need to build a good mold that is rienforced because even a good platinum silicone will want to distort after you pour a bunch of lead through it. One little tip, dust your mold with talc powder and the lead will pour much easier. I pour a bunch of talc in a sock and then zip tie it. I tap the pouch against the mold after each pour. "
I am on my second gallon of the gt products platinum cure silicone with no apparent durability problems ...
I cannot explain why gt lists 450F at high end of temp range, but when I pour lead I don't really pay attention to temp. ... I set between 6 and 7 on the dial lee production pot. (650-700F ???)
I would have argued with you that the tin based silicones are better and that is what is used for high temp molds (for tin/pewter casting) because they can get a higher max temp out of tin-based silicone, but my tin-based molds are not working and your platinum-based are :). I think I have a bit more mold-max left, it it is still good, I will make a fresh mold and watch my temps more closely.
Thanks for the info!
I think both the tin base mold max 60 and the platinum cure silicone (50+ hardness) work and are commonly used in making lead jigs.
One should be able to get at least 4 dozen jigs out of a mold.
On youtube, just uploaded a 7-part videos by BluingHearts Japanese lure manufacture on making silicone molds for jigs.
Similar to what I posted. somethings a little different and I learned a few things.
Part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p3F2dMl4Q0
Silicone molds are great for soft plastic lures. Check out Paul Adams video ..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSPMrxW6CHI
Quote from: jcool3 on October 22, 2015, 04:45:27 PM
I think both the tin base mold max 60 and the platinum cure silicone (50+ hardness) work and are commonly used in making lead jigs.
One should be able to get at least 4 dozen jigs out of a mold.
Sorry for resurrecting an old thread but that is because I am systematically reading all stuff that is useful to me.
I have played with making Silicone moulds for pouring resins, White metal and lead since 2005 and by and large have reached similar conclusions as above.
I have used Smooth Sil 950 as well as Mould Max 60 and found the MM 60 slightly more satisfactory for molten metals. For moulding plastic, I have used various softer silicones, mostly from Smooth-on. The more intricate the device you wish to mold, the softer the Silicone should be. I once made some lures from leftover soft silicone, they were very successful and extremely durable!
Using a release agent with silicone seems to be one way to make the moulds last a bit longer, especially when pouring other resins. Coating the inside of the moulds with some Graphite powder before pouring tin or lead goes a long way towards obtaining a smoother and better looking metal cast and I think also helps durability of the mould.
Silicone is versatile, can make perfect moulds, but is a bit pricy and when pouring hot metal start deteriorating fairly soon.
As long as it is for own use it is still economical and more fun to make your own lures!
Quote from: Cor on May 15, 2016, 06:22:42 AM
Quote from: jcool3 on October 22, 2015, 04:45:27 PM
I think both the tin base mold max 60 and the platinum cure silicone (50+ hardness) work and are commonly used in making lead jigs.
One should be able to get at least 4 dozen jigs out of a mold.
Sorry for resurrecting an old thread but that is because I am systematically reading all stuff that is useful to me.
I have played with making Silicone moulds for pouring resins, White metal and lead since 2005 and by and large have reached similar conclusions as above.
I have used Smooth Sil 950 as well as Mould Max 60 and found the MM 60 slightly more satisfactory for molten metals. For moulding plastic, I have used various softer silicones, mostly from Smooth-on. The more intricate the device you wish to mold, the softer the Silicone should be. I once made some lures from leftover soft silicone, they were very successful and extremely durable!
Using a release agent with silicone seems to be one way to make the moulds last a bit longer, especially when pouring other resins. Coating the inside of the moulds with some Graphite powder before pouring tin or lead goes a long way towards obtaining a smoother and better looking metal cast and I think also helps durability of the mould.
Silicone is versatile, can make perfect moulds, but is a bit pricy and when pouring hot metal start deteriorating fairly soon.
As long as it is for own use it is still economical and more fun to make your own lures!
I now use baby powder to coat the inside of mold. Also modified my molds
by plugging up old holes with more silicone and cutting new slots so that I'm
now pouring straight vertical, instead of from the side. Think this eliminates air pockets. Learned this from bluinghearts videos. Perfect lead pours almost every time.
Hello, and I was watching some of your old threads on jig molds, and wondered if you're still using silicone type molds, or have you found something better ? I want to make some octopus 🐙 head jigs soon this winter. I'm a beginner, and need advice on getting started with my custom mold.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Gst.
Quote from: gstours on October 14, 2018, 09:58:58 PM
Hello, and I was watching some of your old threads on jig molds, and wondered if you're still using silicone type molds, or have you found something better ? I want to make some octopus 🐙 head jigs soon this winter. I'm a beginner, and need advice on getting started with my custom mold.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Gst.
Hey Gary,
After some trial and error, I am getting good molds now.
They make RTV casting silicone for high temp. The bigger the casting, the hotter the mold gets, and the longer it stays hot. I use regular temp rated platinum cure for small stuff, but anything over about 1/2 oz, I switch to the high temp stuff.
I have cast up to 12 oz. The mold gets pretty hot, but it holds up well enough for personal use.
The things to look for:
Max temp ( they use terms like " usable temp" or "continuous use temp")
Cure hardness
Working time
Mixed viscocity
If you play around with alloying your lead like the bullet guys do, you can bring the pour temp down.
Softer rubber is good for peeling the mold off of complicated shapes, but you need a mother mold for larger pours to ensure that the mold doesn't flex with soft rubber. It is easier and stronger to use a hard cure (50+ Shore A)
Working time and viscocity need to be compatible. The higher the viscocity, the longer it takes to pour the mold without getting air bubbles. Some stuff is so fast and thick, you need a vacuum setup to get the bubbles out (a real vacuum pump - and you can't use your food sealer, it won't pull enough, and you could end up contaminating some nice halibut).
For pouring metals, I ended up liking the Smooth-on Mold Max 60. It is readily available in smaller amounts without crazy shipping. It has one of the higher temp ratings at 563F, which is still below the pour temp of pure lead. There are some other silicone suppliers that I have heard are better, but too tricky for me to get in smaller quantities. SDS wise, there is a lot of variabilty in toxicity, so worth keeping an eye on this as well. Some silicones go bad within a month or so after first opening. I have gone three months with some opened mold max 60, and it seemed ok. I spray some canned air in before closing to help slow down the spoilage.
Measuring has to be accurate for mixing. You will need a good gram scale for the catalyst.
I didn't like any of the octo jigs out there that I saw - the way they dropped, they way they swam, how they could be rigged, etc. So I made my own design in 4 and 8oz so far. Still in the early testing phase.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/25/11927_29_09_18_2_45_49.jpeg)
Are you planning on making something sane in size, or the 1-3 lb monsters they seem to like in some parts of Alaska? You might be pushing what can get done with silicone if you start getting up there in size especially with unalloyed lead.
Another option if you are pouring big jigs is sand casting. If you have access to a forge, you can even cast an aluminum mold.
-J
That black octopus is one of the coolest lures I have seen. Do you think it would work for Ling Cod? and will you sell me one? Dominick
They work for lings for sure and all other bottom fish here in BC. I make a 10 oz jig and I made the mold out of plaster of paris. The mold will start to break down after about 12 pours of lead.
Cheers:
Todd
Quote from: Hardy Boy on October 15, 2018, 08:15:42 PM
They work for lings for sure and all other bottom fish here in BC. I make a 10 oz jig and I made the mold out of plaster of paris. The mold will start to break down after about 12 pours of lead.
Cheers:
Todd
Good info Todd. I read somewhere that mixing some portland cement with the plaster (~25% ?) makes them last longer. I have also read some warnings about exploding plaster molds due to trapped water, especially for bigger molds for stuff like downrigger balls. It scared me off of trying the stuff. Do you oven dry your molds for curing and/or right before pouring? Or is it that much of a problem?
BTW: I like the backwards top skirts too! I think the action is better. My only worry is the the top skirt getting in the way if you are rigged with a circle hook . But with a J hook, not a problem.
Quote from: Dominick on October 15, 2018, 06:21:03 PM
That black octopus is one of the coolest lures I have seen. Do you think it would work for Ling Cod? and will you sell me one? Dominick
Thanks Domnick!
Its actually rootbeer over ink black, because we know how finicky lings are about getting the color exactly right ;)
These have caught lingcod. I started making them about a year ago, but haven't used much, as I am testing a bunch of other lure designs, plus some new fly eyes. The octopus heads are designed to be rigged lots of different ways. I might be persuaded to bring a couple for the the December 10 trip. I am down to my last two or three so I need to make some more. What size do you fish?
-J
Plaster moulds work but are not ideal therefore many things have been tried over the years to make them last a bit longer. I've never heard of anything that has made any material improvement and tried some myself.
Nothing beats a foundry made mould, unless its fine detail you want, then silicone is tops.
I always cure my silicone moulds, does it improve durability?.............I cant tell.....LOL
Just something on exploding moulds, I've never seen or heard of that. But a few weeks ago I needed to make some ordinary sinkers for a beach fishing trip. When I was very small my Father warned me about the dangers of water getting in to molten lead and I have always been extremely careful. I've seen it happen a few times as well!
I was melting lead in my Lee bullet pot, which probably contained about 5 lbs of liquid metal. I had poured one lot and bent down to the ground with my back to the pot to shake 3 sinkers from the mould. I had placed another mould on top of the pot to keep it hot. Suddenly an explosion took place in the pot sending the one mould flying about 3 ft in the air and spreading molten lead over an area of about 6 ft from the pot.
I got a huge fright and my first thought was that a primer got in the metal but that was not possible.
I can only think that some of the lead I was melting somehow contained a bit of water in a hollow pocket somewhere. Some were old sinkers that had been in the sea a long time. I don't know if that is possible.
Luckily I escaped with only one tiny burn mark, but can imagine what could have happened if I was looking in to the pot or even just standing a bit nearer.
Sometimes we need a reminder to be more careful, safety glasses, heavy gloves etc.
I never had one explode or crack. I just make sure they dry for a good while before I use it. The plaster breaks down after a dozen pours and you loose some detail but the fish don't seem to care. Pouring a dozen gives me enough jigs to fish with for a couple of years when added to the existing stock. It seems the more jigs you have the less you donate to the bottom. if its you last killer jig left you will loose it for sure on the first drop !! :-[
My buddy got a fixed hook lead head mould that we rig with out the fixed hood (use a wire). its an aluminum mould so we are good to go for a while. They seem to fish well and the aluminum mould is way easier to work with. That being said I still like making my own.
Cheers:
Todd
Thanks for the added info. I,m thinking of making a plaster of Paris mold for starters. How do you seperate the mold when the pattern in dry in the plaster ? Just saw it out? finding and centering the cut around the patter Methods used? I,m new at this. Butt want to proceed.
Some body help pleeze? ;)
Gary: I was going to write out the instructions but this link is way better: https://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-two-part-reusable-mold-using-plaster/
I used Vaseline for the release agent not soap as in the instructions. You just need play dou (I used clay), plaster of paris, release agent and a mold frame.
Cheers:
Todd
Sorry about not a reply sooner, it's going to be a winter indoor project building the mold.
Did you make your pattern of a wood carving or? After the mold is made I guess you can remove material and do more shaping as needed. I'd love to hear from more ideas 💡 before proceeding.
The octopus is my goal. 10-16 oz. thanks for sharing the link. Good fishing 🎣
I used surfboard foam to make the original pattern for a mould, If nothing was available that I could copy directly. It is easy to shape with knife and sand paper. Finnish it off with a coating of Polyester resin to give it body, then lots of Waterpaper and if needed some polyester body filler.
Another option is to make the original from some modelling clay.
It is very difficult to shape the mould once it has been made. I have changed the pouring holes and air outlets but nothing else.
I used a actual jig for the mold (don't tell anyone). You can add some detail to the plaster mold after if you like by carving with a dremel as the plaster can be carved, I made the slot longer for the wire for the hook as I bend it into shape after pouring. I pre bend the wire for the eye. All of my jigs are through wired.
Cheers:
Todd
Mr. Toddy, you are inspiring me to show you all a new Octopus jig lead head i,m working on. Its cause of all of your pictures and every bodys help..... Of coarse ill show how I made the mold. Stay tuned. Go huntin, make a pie, make a fire, cause its rainin, and dark at 5ish. Butt thats ok. ;)
I've gone fishing and am back, still waiting for the amazing lure art coming to this site! ???
Gary: I would love to see it !! If its sweet I may need to make a copy myself !!!.................. ;D. Are you carving a prototype or ???
Todd
Toddy Boy, I,m getting stuff ready to make my first of. Thanks for your help and to help others on this topic I found a earthy person who is sharing some of his how to,s shown below. Lots of us still don,t know it all. ;) ;) Butt we now have inspiration.
https://youtu.be/lLRUDVvl2j0
No doubt will work and its the same process to make mould from silicone. However silicone makes so much nicer and more accurate mould that I would rather spend the extra $15-00 and go that route.
It's a fun project.
Thanks Mr Cor, im just starting to get going with this jig mold stuff, ive made some aluminum molds back when I had acess to a milling machine. Ive cast a ton of cannonball and bank sinkers to float the boat, Butt never mad a mold from silicone nor plaster o paris.
Tell us more of your silicone recommendations and where to get the supplys in small quanitys, I dont want to buy a gallon at first.
I am going to make a Master for the clay/ plaster for starters. Its low cost. I,m not at home. I got no shop. Just lucky my daughter has a garage! :) The first cast will be a start. I,m learning from all of you. thanks.
A person that can catch But can make moulds. ;D
Just think about the mould and how it has to release the solid metal part inside it. Make the mould with care as that is the most important part for a successful cast. Here flexibility of the mould is a major plus factor.
Remember when you make the first half of the mould you don't need to worry too much about the silicone sticking to anything and you can cut it or modify it slightly before casting the second part on top of it. REMEMBER before you cast the second half of the mould, you need to cover every bit of the first part with a release agent otherwise you will never again separate the two silicone halves! Petroleum jelly is the cheaper release agent, but cover every tiniest mm.
I've done this fairly frequently and have always used products from Smooth-on because its obtainable in small quantities.
this is the silicone I would use for the mould. https://www.smooth-on.com/products/mold-max-60/
Unfortunately it ends up being fairly thick and pours a bit slowly & with difficultly but nothing you cant manage. Just read instructions carefully and measure quantities you need to mix so as not to waste the products.
Silicone does not stick to anything other then more silicone!
Hi all, excuse the basic question, but I was wondering if there are any special considerations for the through-wiring?
Currently my loops are cropped close to the ends and bent-in... no failures yet, but then there is a dearth of large fish in my life!
Quote from: Leerie18 on November 03, 2018, 06:54:48 AM
"......... no failures yet, but then there is a dearth of large fish in my life!
I see only Katonkel. (Bonita)
Gary,
Try a youtube search for "Splish Splash" and "Solar Baits". Both of these gentlemen specialize in making silicone lure molds and their work is amazing. They don't cast lead in them, but the methods for making a silicone mold are the same.
The aforementioned Paul Adams, aka "the Handmade Fisherman", is one of the best on youtube. Lots of great videos covering a variety of fishing topics and his editing quality is first rate. He makes a lead head "skull jig" using plaster molds, could be sized up for what you want to do. Hope this helps.
Rich
Others may correct me butt I can't imagine anything you could drag in pullin the wire out of the jig if you're using lead, if it were me I'd bend the tag end of each to a 90 or 180 bend so it could never pull straight up, just my 2 cents worth.🚣♀️
What are you using for a release agent? Others can chime in too.🙅♂️
Here is a fairly simple way to make a lead jig master copy of a large uncomplicated pattern. It might be interesting to some.
https://youtu.be/XlRK_SMWX7Y
Inappropriate in the silicone section, Ino!!! >:(
Quote from: Leerie18 on November 03, 2018, 06:54:48 AM
Hi all, excuse the basic question, but I was wondering if there are any special considerations for the through-wiring?
Currently my loops are cropped close to the ends and bent-in... no failures yet, but then there is a dearth of large fish in my life!
As Gary noted, if you have a decent bend in the wire, pull-out in cast metal lures is probably not going to be an issue. If there is any doubt, tie one end of a lure to the top of a stepladder/ heavy tree limb/etc, and the other to a heavy weight (A five gallon pail of water is 40 lbs). Come back in the morning. You shouldn't see any pull-out.
If you are casting plastics or thinner metal lures, you can lose fish when the lure breaks in half, or the ends crack or chip, and the eyes pull out. Some metal alloys for lower temp casting can be pretty brittle. If the lure in your photo is on the thick side, you are probably in good shape. If it is a bit thinner, you might want to go a bit farther in on the the ends to protect from a chip/crack.
BTW: I have had more success pouring long flat jigs, especially thinner ones by having the sprue at one of the long ends of the jig. More of the part is pressurized from the weight of the molten metal from above, there is less turbulence when filling, and as the part cools and shrinks, it tends to create less pocketing. A deep generous sprue helps as well. If the jig is fairly fat, this matters less.
Quote from: gstours on November 03, 2018, 12:28:29 AM
Thanks Mr Cor, im just starting to get going with this jig mold stuff, ive made some aluminum molds back when I had acess to a milling machine. Ive cast a ton of cannonball and bank sinkers to float the boat, Butt never mad a mold from silicone nor plaster o paris.
Tell us more of your silicone recommendations and where to get the supplys in small quanitys, I dont want to buy a gallon at first.
I am going to make a Master for the clay/ plaster for starters. Its low cost. I,m not at home. I got no shop. Just lucky my daughter has a garage! :) The first cast will be a start. I,m learning from all of you. thanks.
I have a feeling that it is going to be tough to get RTV silione shipped to Alaska. Most of the sellers in the US do continental only. Not sure how the stuff would handle winter shipping to Alaska either. Smooth-on does list a seller in Wasilla AK, a mere 19 hour drive from Juneau :)
A lot of the web advice/tutorials for mold making and casting metal lures is for smaller items.
Realistically something as large and lumpy shaped as a 12 oz octopus head doesn't need the detail or sharp edges you can get with a silicone mold. And I would suspect that the silicone mold for a big roundish 12-16 oz pure lead jig head is not going to last that long anyway. Some specialized casting alloys can get to a pour temp as low as ~350F, but pure lead has a recommended pour temp somewhere around 700. The better high temp silicone molds are rated in the 500-550 range, and a big roundish jig head is going to hold a high temp for a long time.
I am still pretty squeamish about plaster, but it looks like it is working for Todd and other folks.
Quote from: Cor on October 16, 2018, 06:15:23 AM
[...]
I was melting lead in my Lee bullet pot, which probably contained about 5 lbs of liquid metal. I had poured one lot and bent down to the ground with my back to the pot to shake 3 sinkers from the mould. I had placed another mould on top of the pot to keep it hot. Suddenly an explosion took place in the pot sending the one mould flying about 3 ft in the air and spreading molten lead over an area of about 6 ft from the pot.
I got a huge fright and my first thought was that a primer got in the metal but that was not possible.
I can only think that some of the lead I was melting somehow contained a bit of water in a hollow pocket somewhere. Some were old sinkers that had been in the sea a long time. I don't know if that is possible.
Luckily I escaped with only one tiny burn mark, but can imagine what could have happened if I was looking in to the pot or even just standing a bit nearer.
Sometimes we need a reminder to be more careful, safety glasses, heavy gloves etc.
Cor: thanks for the scary story and safety reminder. Anybody who thinks "it won't happen to me" is just increasing the odds of something bad happening. I watched some of the videos referenced at the beginning of this thread, and one guy is pouring molten metal with Crocs for footwear (eek!). Hopefully he still has all of his toes...
Quote from: gstours on November 03, 2018, 07:05:43 PM
Here is a fairly simple way to make a lead jig master copy of a large uncomplicated pattern. It might be interesting to some.
https://youtu.be/XlRK_SMWX7Y
Inappropriate in the silicone section, Ino!!! >:(
Sand casting seems like a lot of work to pour each jig, now if you were pouring an aluminum mold...
...and the guy in the video is pouring molten metal in a pair of shorts and sneakers. Not even a pair of socks. Arrrgh.
-J
Thanks for the recent reply. I,m trying ti do a easy mold to cast a 'Pattern" that I can use as an origional, and possibly share to others as they can make thier own mold their way. I,m learning. the sand cast might be gppd for something simple like what i,m planning on. Just saying. I hope others can learn from my mistakes.
Currently i,m making several octipus heads Masters, different sizes, when finished i will post stuff. everybody likes a laugh! :o
Quote from: gstours on November 04, 2018, 01:44:11 AM
Thanks for the recent reply. I,m trying ti do a easy mold to cast a 'Pattern" that I can use as an origional, and possibly share to others as they can make thier own mold their way. I,m learning. the sand cast might be gppd for something simple like what i,m planning on. Just saying. I hope others can learn from my mistakes.
Currently i,m making several octipus heads Masters, different sizes, when finished i will post stuff. everybody likes a laugh! :o
If you are wearing pants when you pour the metal, you will already be ahead of the youtube "experts ". ;D.
Looking forward to see what you come up with.
-J
Quote from: Leerie18 on November 03, 2018, 06:54:48 AM
Hi all, excuse the basic question, but I was wondering if there are any special considerations for the through-wiring?
Currently my loops are cropped close to the ends and bent-in... no failures yet, but then there is a dearth of large fish in my life!
It looks like 1.6 mm SS welding rod you're using which is pretty strong. Even 1.2 mm should be adequate and its very unlikely to tear out on a fish.
However, I would make the "loop" in the wire about double your size. Sometimes the wire does not get covered with metal properly, or you have a problem where your wire is not hot enough and the metal does not flow nicely around the wire to fill the ends of the mould.
[/quote]
Sometimes the wire does not get covered with metal properly, or you have a problem where your wire is not hot enough and the metal does not flow nicely around the wire to fill the ends of the mould.
[/quote]
Your advice is spot-on thank you! Repeated pour failures earlier this morning exactly as described.
Will revisit throughwire set-up and start again. Silicone mould still in good shape, been using a fine pre-cast mould coating of talcum powder each time.
Quote from: Leerie18 on November 03, 2018, 06:54:48 AM
Hi all, excuse the basic question, but I was wondering if there are any special considerations for the through-wiring?
Currently my loops are cropped close to the ends and bent-in... no failures yet, but then there is a dearth of large fish in my life!
i changed all my silicone molds to pouring thru the end instead of middle. Avoids a lot of those problems.
Thanks for the info, Im making some molds very soon. simple designs, butt everything that helps, helps. right?? :-\
Have read everyones ideas I thought I'd post up what I do here in Western Australia. I've been making my own leadheads since the late 70's and in the last 10 years got into deep drop jigs,flat fall and flutter jigs all made at home from hand carved balsa masters. Originally I was able to get hold of Dow Corning RTV 5160 i think was its number. High temp resistant and long lived .(those moulds are as good today as when I made them in the 70's) The silicone gurus over here tell me that the formulae have changed for silicones and the long lasting stuff doesnt exist any more. I now use a Product called Wacker 4670 made by Barnes Corp. Its a fawn colour(shore 60) and works well so far but apparently wont have the longevity of the Dow Corning stuff. If I'm making vertical jigs I make the mould casing out of 40mm,50mm or 60mm white poly pipe.Seal off the bottom with Gaffer tape,suspend your master inside the pipe and then pour the silicon to the top. let it set and then using a hack saw cut a slot lengthwise down the pipe to release the mould with the master inside.Once the mould is out, cut right around with a stanley trimmer and extract your master blank.Then carefully carve a pour entry hole into the silicone mould (essentially you now have a round two part mould)Also cut a hole in the poly pipe in the same position plus a small vent hole at one end of the mould.
The you rig your wire put the two halve back together and slide back into the poly pipe.I then use a clamp to keep things together and pour the lead.
Getting the finished jig out requires gloves and I use a piece of large dowel to push the mould back out of the poly pipe.
I've made dozens so far and have not had a jig mould disintegrate yet and i'm using pure lead so they are wearing a fair bit of heat 700degrees plus .
Getting the lead real hot gives the best results and the mould itself needs to get hot to produce good results.(you cant preheat silicon) so I use the first pour to just sit and heat up the mould then remelt the usually crappy first pour.
I will take a few photos tonight and post up tomorrow
Quote from: Leerie18 on November 04, 2018, 11:58:20 AM
Sometimes the wire does not get covered with metal properly, or you have a problem where your wire is not hot enough and the metal does not flow nicely around the wire to fill the ends of the mould.
[/quote]
Your advice is spot-on thank you! Repeated pour failures earlier this morning
exactly as described.
Will revisit throughwire set-up and start again. Silicone mould still in good shape, been using a fine pre-cast mould coating of talcum powder each time.
[/quote]
As others have noted, horizontal pours are tough on longer/thinner jigs. Air pockets form at the ends, slowing the travel of the molten metal. The wire also cools the molten metal before it can force the air out. Vertical pours work much better for me- no problems with cold wires. I also like to make a vent as well as a sprue, so that the size of the opening where the sprue joins the mold can be smaller. Makes for less trimming before painting. But a vent is not necessary if the opening is large enough to let all the air evacuate.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/26/medium_11927_31_01_19_3_07_09.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=26989)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/26/medium_11927_31_01_19_3_05_55.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=26988)
Quote from: Gadget on January 31, 2019, 05:30:40 AM
Have read everyones ideas I thought I'd post up what I do here in Western Australia. I've been making my own leadheads since the late 70's and in the last 10 years got into deep drop jigs,flat fall and flutter jigs all made at home from hand carved balsa masters. Originally I was able to get hold of Dow Corning RTV 5160 i think was its number. High temp resistant and long lived .(those moulds are as good today as when I made them in the 70's) The silicone gurus over here tell me that the formulae have changed for silicones and the long lasting stuff doesnt exist any more. I now use a Product called Wacker 4670 made by Barnes Corp. Its a fawn colour(shore 60) and works well so far but apparently wont have the longevity of the Dow Corning stuff. If I'm making vertical jigs I make the mould casing out of 40mm,50mm or 60mm white poly pipe.Seal off the bottom with Gaffer tape,suspend your master inside the pipe and then pour the silicon to the top. let it set and then using a hack saw cut a slot lengthwise down the pipe to release the mould with the master inside.Once the mould is out, cut right around with a stanley trimmer and extract your master blank.Then carefully carve a pour entry hole into the silicone mould (essentially you now have a round two part mould)Also cut a hole in the poly pipe in the same position plus a small vent hole at one end of the mould.
The you rig your wire put the two halve back together and slide back into the poly pipe.I then use a clamp to keep things together and pour the lead.
Getting the finished jig out requires gloves and I use a piece of large dowel to push the mould back out of the poly pipe.
I've made dozens so far and have not had a jig mould disintegrate yet and i'm using pure lead so they are wearing a fair bit of heat 700degrees plus .
Getting the lead real hot gives the best results and the mould itself needs to get hot to produce good results.(you cant preheat silicon) so I use the first pour to just sit and heat up the mould then remelt the usually crappy first pour.
I will take a few photos tonight and post up tomorrow
Post some photos!
I find that the size and depth of the cavity makes a big difference in how long the mold will last.
Wacker makes a high temp RTV (300c degrees) - product number 4470. I don't think that 4670 is rated for casting low-melt metals. It might be worth giving 4470 a try if you can get your hands on the stuff.
-J
I've used two .A salmon coloured one which will tolerate the heat but is a more flexible type of silicon and the beige one which I/m sure is 4670
you can see it in the attached photo plus the original Dow Corning stuff in red
Nice!