g'day guys i've seen some spool sleeves being made up here and understand that it helps with side loads on the bearings, what i don't understand is when people say you can run more drag due to the clips being bypassed, wouldn't the c or e clip holiding the belleville washers still keep it in its intended range? if going to the trouble of a sleeve why not bypass the last c or e clip that holds the belleville washer too? how you say? die and a nut. create a thread so that the nut it seating perfectly inline where the c or e clip was. would this not improve the reel capability dramatically not to mention allow you to compress the belleville washers as you tighten the nut in the original way ( read a couple posts people having trouble with the metaloid)
the shimano tld lever drags are the best examples of this. the c-clips are placed in such a way that it mimics a bearing sleeve that is cut WAY too long. to get it right, there are two options. one is to remove the c-clip and install a bearing sleeve that is the proper length. the other option is to leave the c-clips in and simply put shim washers underneath the spool bearing (typically the right side) to take up the extra slop. leave only a couple of thousanths worth of slop if you can. that's what i do with the shimano lever drag reels and it works great.
do you happen to have a picture as a example Alan?
not yet, but i'm putting together whole new kits for the tld's. i'll take photos then.
Quote from: alantani on February 02, 2015, 02:34:19 AM
not yet, but i'm putting together whole new kits for the tld's. i'll take photos then.
thanks mate! appreciate it ;D
Quote from: alantani on February 02, 2015, 02:34:19 AM
not yet, but i'm putting together whole new kits for the tld's. i'll take photos then.
I'm 1/2 way through a pile of TLDs (well 6 is a sort of pile) and will say they are a simple and well built "low end" LD reel. I also got a TLD Star Drag reel to do a pre use service on, it's a new reel to me and very easy to work on.
Very interested in these TLD kits, and the photo's that will accompany them.
Funnily enough there have been a fair few PM's between me and Wallace over making spool sleeves for TLD 5's recently.
Any idea on when there will be some pictures posted from you Alan?
Here's the procedure of the spool bearing sleeve.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_00611.JPG)
If you see in the picture, you will see a little c-clip on the spool shaft almost centered on the shaft. That clip keeps the bearing from sliding inwards towards the bearing cup of the spool. So we shim under the bearing to be a exactly the same height or few thousand's of an inch higher than the c-clip. This will give you the optimal free spool possible.
Good points, and reminder. Something I wish I would have done as a matrer of course when servicing all the TLDs. In my defense, the customers did indicate thst they were for trollimg apps, and freespool was not an issue.
I'm still not 100% clear which bearing you are shimming under. Is this the larger bearing on the sleeve which also holds the bellevilles? I'm also not sure what you mean by "same height or a few thousandths higher than the height of the c clip". Height measured from where, and relative to what? The only thing I can guess from this is, are you suggesting that the left spool bearing does not seat right into base of the cup on the left side of the spool? So you place a shim between the bellevilles and the bearing to ensure the bearing "seats" perfectly into the base of the cup on the left side of the spool?
I fully understand the reasoning behind the spool sleeves, but can not picture what you are trying to achieve here with the description you have given.
Could you perhaps take the time to do a thorough tutorial here, with some additional pix, to make it perfectly clear. There are an huge number of these reels out there, I'm sure there will be a lot of people who will get some value out of having this clearly explained with regard to the TLD's (myself included obviously).
Quote from: Rothmar2 on February 02, 2015, 10:45:06 PM
I'm still not 100% clear which bearing you are shimming under. Is this the larger bearing on the sleeve which also holds the bellevilles? I'm also not sure what you mean by "same height or a few thousandths higher than the height of the c clip". Height measured from where, and relative to what? The only thing I can guess from this is, are you suggesting that the left spool bearing does not seat right into base of the cup on the left side of the spool? So you place a shim between the bellevilles and the bearing to ensure the bearing "seats" perfectly into the base of the cup on the left side of the spool?
I fully understand the reasoning behind the spool sleeves, but can not picture what you are trying to achieve here with the description you have given.
Could you perhaps take the time to do a thorough tutorial here, with some additional pix, to make it perfectly clear. There are an huge number of these reels out there, I'm sure there will be a lot of people who will get some value out of having this clearly explained with regard to the TLD's (myself included obviously).
(http://s3.postimg.org/qn8k91s7j/100_00611.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/qn8k91s7j/)
from the red marks.. assuming the left bearing is seated on the spool correctly. the second red mark has a small c/e clip that supports the other spool bearing from the inside so we make spool sleeve to support the bearings from the inside on each, in which when high drag is applied the bearing don't crush creating a binding feeling when winding
Thanks for the post, but I did a little tinkering and came up with this.....
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=13316.0
Any comments appreciated
Quote from: Rothmar2 on May 03, 2015, 12:47:10 PM
Thanks for the post, but I did a little tinkering and came up with this.....
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=13316.0
Any comments appreciated
i think the fault you made there is subtracting the e clips width.. you didn't need to, infact you had to add 2 thousandth of a mm or there about to it. nicely done though. also i don't know how it increases spool time if you ask me.. i make spool sleeves to help with side load and thats all, nothing to do with free spool
(http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j393/westozwayward/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zps544a3227.jpg) (http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/westozwayward/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zps544a3227.jpg.html)
that to me is wrong.. your sleeve including shim, when spool is on won't be making contact.. your sleeve has to be past the e clip groove by thousandths of a mm
Quote from: ReelStrong on May 03, 2015, 01:36:27 PM
i don't know how it increases spool time if you ask me.. i make spool sleeves to help with side load and thats all, nothing to do with free spool
Quote...so we make spool sleeve to support the bearings from the inside on each, in which when high drag is applied the bearing don't crush creating a binding feeling when winding...
I'm afraid you'll be disappointed then. Spool sleeves have nothing to do with drag, or the crushing / binding issue.
I've explained this many times now.
The spool sleeve does nothing to help or aid drag pressure or binding therefrom. Nothing at all. Nothing.
The sleeve DOES help alleviate axial pressure on the spool bearings brought upon by the drag disc seperating spring when the reel is in freespool. That's all. Only the pressure from that puny coil spring. In freespool.
Spacers were named Freespool sleeves for exactly that reason. They improve freespool. This is why they are called
freespool sleeves. They were not named MaxDrag sleeves or NoBinding sleeves, also for this reason.
.
how can you say it doesn't, the pressure is all transmitted back into that shaft, wether pulling or pushing, how do you think the belville washers get squashed for drag curves. because there is side load there, they sit ontop of a shim or washer then that washer is on top of the bearing, its all transmitted down the line and ends to this bearings does it not?
Sorry for delay... been busy and won't really have time or energy for a lengthy or detailed response.
Well, the thing to consider is that lever drag reels have two states of being: freespool, and in drag.
When a lever drag reel is in drag, there is always an axial force being applied. That is quite simply how the reels work nowadays. It is in their nature. This is true for the overwhelmingly vast majority of lever drag reels produced, whether modified or not, sleeved or not, pull-bar, push-bar, live axle, twin-drag or not.
And, in the case of the TLD and its clones, any and all axial forces are eventually directed through the pinion bearing to the drag disc to the spool flange, through the spool and to the outer race of the ball bearing in the spools left hand side. From there it goes from the bearings outer race to the inner race, via the balls. And finally, on to the belleville washers and a dead end. That the spool bearings inner race is perhaps supported in one way or another matters not, since the axial forces are directed from an outer race to an inner race. Ergo, so-called bearing crunch. In this specific case, the axial force is shared equally between the left spool bearing and the pinion bearing. The spools right-hand bearing sees very little or no load at all, and any spacers or sleeves thereinbetween are completely irrelevant.
Further, keep in mind that if the situation were considered from the other end of the shaft, it will quickly be seen that the accumulated supports or sleeves end up pushing in thin air, thusly: Shaft end > bellevilles > left spool bearings inner race > bearing sleeve > right spool bearing inner race > coil spring... it ends there. Bellevilles pushing on a coil spring does little good. Trust me, the Bellevilles win every time.
When a lever drag reel is in freespool, a very slight axial force is brought upon the left and right spool bearings, by the drag disc seperating spring. A bearing sleeve or proximative stops in the form of e-clips or steps in the shaft in this instance alleviates this axial force and allows for a freer freespool. That is all.
It will seem obvious to many that the above also applies to a multitude of common reels, differing only in the number of bearings affected and their position in the reel. There is always bearing crunch somewhere. That is how it works.
Trust me; I've done this a thousand times.
Spend some time with it; you'll see.
.
Robert - I have a TLD 15 that has the tilting to the right issue, and from reading your post in this thread, I understand that the clip or bearing sleeve are supposed to allow for greater free spool and nothing else. So.... if I get significantly more free spool with the c clip removed (still not sure why this is), is it ok to use the reel without it? Since the clip offers no protection from axial loads on the bearings, and since i get better performance without it, I assume it is ok.