help
my neighbor just move his boat from chesapeake to atlantic ocean marina.
his biggest reel is equivalent to 3/0 senator..
suggested he go bigger to a 6/0
but which one? black or red older versions not new. fishing will be trolling and bait less then 30 miles off shore.
there are schoolie yft and bft at times bigger tuna models, spanish macks, wahoo, bluefish plus smaller critters in that area
what to recommend? all my gear is accurate so no personal experience
all advice accepted
should note hes not real big on maintenance, leaves gear on boat at times
Assuming new gear like a Fathom 60LD2 is out, you can't go wrong with a 114H 6/0. Wide version 114HLW if possible. But then again the 4/0 113H and the 113HLW will handle 90% of the fish he is targeting. The east coast guys will chime in soon. Bill
On the Mid Atlantic (NY/NJ) the standard for trolling and chunking tuna has been an International 30 which has a maximum drag of 30lbs. Line capacity probably won't be much of an issue. N.B. It is said that the maximum drag a normal human man can handle fishing stand up is 45lbs.
I don't have drag figures on the older Senators to see which size matches the drag figures of the 30 but I'll bet you won't have to wait long around here for someone to give them to you.
Before the advent of braid and 2 speeds my go to for a heavy trolling outfit was a 6/0 114H with a newell kit. Killed all kinds of fish with it, tuna wahoo,yellowtail, marlin, The wide kit with 100lb mono. Bang for the buck tough to beat
new reels are not possible in this situation. figured 6/0 gives enough line capacity if he wants to do some deep water canypn fishing for tuna. wondering if gear ration difference or bearing type make a difference. the 2.0:1 ratio of black seems to be more powerful then higher ratios in red model. also poor maintenance is not kind to ball bearing models.
so unless new info pops up im gonna recommend a good used black model
thanks everyone for ideas.
Go with the high speed 114H. By today's standards it's not high speed at all.
The black 6/0 has much smaller drag washers.
About half the size as the red 6/0
well handi changed my mind in a flash red it will be
thanks everyone
Are we talking used? I could go either way on this. And truthfully either option will probably work just fine. I really pretty much agree with all of the thoughts above, and since I have good experience with both:
1. If you are looking about for used, I am guessing a Black 114 could probably be had for a a few less $$$
2. Since it appears maintenance (or lack thereof) may be a consideration - the Black with solid bearings (bushings) will probably be a little more forgiving. And assuming that you can find it for less as in consideration #1 - less $$ on something that may have to be replaced soon anyway.
3. I'm calling overall line capacity a wash between the two.
4. Gears and Drag:
4A. As mentioned above the gear ratio of either of these reels is kind of irrelevant when compared to modern stuff (which is not to say they won't work, they will). You are looking at low and lower. Yes with the 114H due to the bigger (9/0 size) gear you can get a stronger drag stack, and a little more speed. Not being familiar with your fishery, how much line would be typical to have out? Since you said trolling, I'm thinking way inside <100 yards, that would be doable for me with the 2.1:1 of the black reel, but much over that I'm gonna get tired of cranking and that 2.8:1 is gonna look better. (I lie. At my age I am looking at the 4:1 I have in mine from the aftermarket gear set ;D )
4B. Drag - with quality aftermarket stacks, either one of these outfits will make plenty of drag, and most importantly way above what they were originally conceived for. Are we talking an inexpensive used 1970's model refurbished with a modern drag? Or if you get a "new off the shelf model" it will certainly handle the drag that it has from the factory. Yes the 114H will make more. Exact numbers I do not know, my two 6/0 are semi-retired. But part of me feels that if the difference in absolute drag figures between the two reels is that critical then maybe time to revisit the "get something designed after 1960" argument...
5. Since the primary application is trolling, and it appears it is his boat, I would also guess that adds the flexibility of actually being able to back down on or "chase" a fish if one of the bigger models gets hooked? To put it in perspective, I trolled up and brought boatside a very pissed off 7' Mako with a bone stock 113H. Totally kicked my ####, but the reel certainly wasn't fazed.
I think you are fine with either option. - john
Quote from: bill19804 on May 19, 2022, 03:10:58 AMnew reels are not possible in this situation. figured 6/0 gives enough line capacity if he wants to do some deep water canypn fishing for tuna.
With modern reels out I would recommend the higher speed 113H and 114H reels.
That said I would suggest looking into Fathom 40NLD2 or 60LD2 reels.
I have 3 or 4 114H reels I could sell after I service them if he wants used AMERICAN BUILT reels.
The guy don't like to FW rinse his stuff. Myself I godda use alota will power to do mine ASAP. Ball-bearings on the spool and the underside of the main gear area are a problem for me with Penn(esp. With the Senators), sometimes even with a good rinse. Don't know...
Hmm...
An
all metal Daiwa 400H (less than 24hrs left for the auction below):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/125314864848?epid=1220511084&hash=item1d2d5916d0:g:qr8AAOSwKZligBJO
And one of these:
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=12785.0
Then do this:
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=8.0
Reel (if bought at min bid), new handle, new CF drag washers, and Cal's Universal grease should make this a less than $150 project.
A 1000yd spool of 100lb Charkbait 8-strand in white will run $100-ish after shipping (reel will take 500-600 yds):
https://charkbait.com/product/toro-tamer-8-strand-solid-braid/
60 or 80 lb mono top shots...
Quote from: bill19804 on May 19, 2022, 12:46:33 AM...should note hes not real big on maintenance, leaves gear on boat at times
That will exclude any modern 2-spd from consideration.
He should at least have 1 water bottle of FW at the end of the day to rinse off any reel (Senator or otherwise) and wipe down with a clean rag. The marine grease that he uses for his boat's propulsion system should be applied to all reel's internal and enclosed metal surfaces outside of the drag stack.
YMMV...
The Daiwa reels just can't match the Penn Senator reels in drag capabilities
Quote from: handi2 on May 22, 2022, 03:54:04 AMThe Daiwa reels just can't match the Penn Senator reels in drag capabilities
???
Factory:
- 113H2 20lb https://www.pennfishing.com/products/special-senator-star-drag-1153838?variant=34036080017548
- 600H 22lb https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=12068.0
Sure, a 400H 5+1 upgrade will not beat a 113H 7+1 upgrade, but will the OP's friend even go there?
The 3/0 for the Chesapeake Bay is perfect,,,,but now what is he fishing for,,,, the 4/0 with new carbon fiber drag washers can handle most,,, a 9/0 that's been upgraded can handle anything and with the cortez frame make it very light,,,,,, ;D
I caught a 250 lb, eight foot shark on a bone stock 114HLW with 50lb Ande. I was in really good shape at the time, and I put enough heat on the Magnaflex that it permanently torqued the solid glass out of line. The reel never wavered. With heavier line I'd have just cranked up. Short of a really large shark, or maybe a big YFT, the 6/0 will do 99.9 percent of what is needed just fine off Va. coast, at reasonable cost and easy tempermant. My 0.02 from NC.
Quote from: thorhammer on May 23, 2022, 12:54:30 PMI caught a 250 lb, eight foot shark on a bone stock 114HLW with 50lb Ande. I was in really good shape at the time, and I put enough heat on the Magnaflex that it permanently torqued the solid glass out of line. The reel never wavered. With heavier line I'd have just cranked up. Short of a really large shark, or maybe a big YFT, the 6/0 will do 99.9 percent of what is needed just fine off Va. coast, at reasonable cost and easy tempermant. My 0.02 from NC.
On a headboat a 4/0 power arm and knob is needed and standard 6/0 is what's on the boat already and 9/0 is for bluefin,,shark,,,marlin it still works but two speed is better,,,, :)
Maintenance is part of the game. Don't do it and you lose.
Old post. Ball bearings are out for me if I can't rinse with f/w. Especially with the cup in the Senators. If corroded in there, replacements are expensive and/or unavailable.
I
I have to go with Porthos on this one. If modifications aren't in the budget (and they are not or else we would be talking about newer reels,) then the Diawas are hard to beat.
Ronald Jones
so i recommended a red 6/0 to him and let him borrow mine for a voyage. he came back happy as the devil. so started to look for one for him..
then his wife came over and asked question whats the best reel made to handle tuna? what do you use? where can i buy one? how much $
a week later he comes over with a box opens it up and wow brand new accurate atd 50w as a birthday present from his wife.
nothing i can say about that except WOW
I'm sending my wife over to meet that gal! I have a b'day come up.
Wow, sure made a big loop from a black 6/0 to a 50w... be sure to do a pre service before he takes it out.
I used to use my 114 HLW down in baja and caught many marlin. The reel will catch big fish so you can depend on it. I retired it when Sal gifted me the Tank. Dominick
Quote from: Dominick on August 05, 2022, 04:30:39 PMI used to use my 114 HLW down in baja and caught many marlin. The reel will catch big fish so you can depend on it. I retired it when Sal gifted me the Tank. Dominick
Dominick do you happen to remember what line you were using? I was thinking of taking one in October.
Quote from: Bill B on August 05, 2022, 09:12:19 PMQuote from: Dominick on August 05, 2022, 04:30:39 PMI used to use my 114 HLW down in baja and caught many marlin. The reel will catch big fish so you can depend on it. I retired it when Sal gifted me the Tank. Dominick
Dominick do you happen to remember what line you were using? I was thinking of taking one in October.
I think 80lb mono. With a marlin on the line sings like Lorelei. Dominick