I hope this isn't really common knowledge, but I couldn't find anything about this online. I bought a new plastic 6 pin brake block assembly to replace the old 2 pin metal one on my old 5500C. It is a drop in fit, no mods needed. I used part #1116727 - 20B from Dadsoletackle. Some might argue that 2 blocks is enough. Maybe it is, but trying to screw around with the different color blocks on the water with teeny tiny little blocks was a nightmare. There's a reason I bought this, I've lost all of my brake blocks along the way. This new setup the blocks are captive, you can't loose them. You push them in until they click to disengage them. I don't adjust my brakes often, but is sure is nice to be able. There are also magnetic brake options for these, but they are not tool-less adjustable from what I've seen. After fishing with my 6 pin 5501C3, I'm leaning towards the centrifugal being a better system than magnetic, at least for me throwing relatively large and heavy lures. Hopefully this helps someone.
The centrifugal brakes work by friction; stuff rubbing together. Magnetic brakes work by Lunz's magical unseen forces. I'll take magic any day.
Centrifugal is best for larger lures since braking force is applied at the start of the cast and gradually tapers off as the spool slows. Magnets on the other hand, are most effective in the middle and end of the cast since the braking force is a constant, especially in linear magnetic brakes like the Abu MagTrax system. There's also the Daiwa Magforce brake, which we will probably see implemented in more reels once the patent expires. Magforce works similar to a centrifugal brake. An inductor on the spool moves relative to spool speed. The faster the spool is spinning, the further into the magnet assembly the inductor moves. The Magforce is also constant, the magnet assembly and inductor will still interact and not be completely off when the spool is moving slow or at rest. Magforce is probably one of the easiest and most effective brakes out right now. Those Daiwas with the SV spools are super simple to cast and have a short learning curve for newcomers. SV spools are typically used for short range casting. Then there is Magforce Z which is a little different and more conducive to distance casting. Both work on the same principle.
Magic is fine, I simply have not seen a mag setup for an ambassadeur that you could adjust without a screwdriver to take the side plate off, then you need to add or remove magnets.. If you only throw a certain size of bait and like set it and forget it, they probably work fine. The centrifugal brake on the ambassadeurs works really well, the only problem with the old system is to adjust them you used different brake blocks which are tiny and super easy to drop and loose forever. This new 6 pin setup you don't have to change the blocks, you only engage or disengage as you want. There's no tools needed to take the handle side off an ambassador, you can adjust a brake in under 30 seconds. It's really nice when you could be throwing lures from 1/2 ounce to 5 ounce in the same day.
Dude I make adjustable mag brakes. I'm not the only one. I have a thread on them here
https://alantani.com/index.php/topic,36075.0.html
Sweet, that looks slick.
Abu make (or made - not sure if it is still available) the 6000C Mag Elite with green sideplates. This has a sliding button on the edge of a sideplate allowing you to adjust the amount of magnetic magic from almost zero to enough to cope with even my hamfisted casting of 5oz leads.
It is a seriously lovely little reel.
It also has the little wire prongs for the sliding brake blocks if you need them as well!
Edit: Oops it is the 6000C not 7000C
I have an AbuGarcia Revo Toro Beast from several years ago. A good inshore baitcaster with a special drag system that can loosen-up even under serious pressure. It has the adjustable brake weights + the adjustable mags and of course the spool-friction control on the gear side. Best to adjust it all to the lure used before I go out. Adjusting the centrifugal system is an open the side plate and push on, or off—thing. The mag adjustment is a dial on the outside. 3 things to adjust is probably 2 too many for me out on the water.
Then there's the wind factor that can still cause backlash. A bear to dis-and reassemble with so many parts. A fun, but time consuming reel. Perhaps too much technology?
6500C3CT is a fav of Nick's and mine, and a lot of surfcasters. It is regretfully out of production, but Abu still makes a mag elite that's similar. Not a lot crosses over from the C to C3, the latter having ultracast spool bearing whereas the former has end cap bearings.
Quote from: thorhammer on March 28, 2024, 07:11:01 PM6500C3CT is a fav of Nick's and mine, and a lot of surfcasters. It is regretfully out of production, but Abu still makes a mag elite that's similar. Not a lot crosses over from the C to C3, the latter having ultracast spool bearing whereas the former has end cap bearings.
As far as I can tell, just about everything could cross over between my C and C3. The only notable difference is the drive shaft. The C has an anti-reverse dog and gear, where the C3 has an instant anti-reverse bearing. Other than that, they sure look similar to me. The spools, and brake assemblies interchange. The handles interchange. The level wind parts interchange. I'm not sure what the end cap bearings you are referencing are. Both my C and C3 have two spool bearings inside the spool that rotate on the shaft. There is one bearing on the drive shaft of the C, the C3 has the instant anti-reverse bearing. Those are the only bearings I can recall in the Ambassadeur's unless you add some. I just ordered a bearing level wind worm gear, and bearing level wind drive gear to try on my C3, along with some ceramic spool bearings to see how it does.
You have a later C.
I'm sure you've seen you can do a DIY CT conversion too. I have a thread on that as well.
Welcome to the rabbit hole.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on March 29, 2024, 02:28:57 AMI'm sure you've seen you can do a DIY CT conversion too. I have a thread on that as well.
Welcome to the rabbit hole.
Last year the levelwind pawl gave out on my C, and I pulled the line guide and drive gear out and used it like that. It worked well enough, but for the fishing I do, I much prefer a level wind. I then proceeded to forget where I left those parts, so that's why I bought the bearing upgraded level wind parts. I put my C3 level wind parts in my C, and My C3 is getting the good stuff.
You wanna really kick it up a notch use your brake plate from an old school one with a ratchet AR with the sideplate from a C3 and get backup anti reverse. I have that plus steel gears in one. Yeah I made a Swedish tank.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on March 29, 2024, 03:02:37 AMYou wanna really kick it up a notch use your brake plate from an old school one with a ratchet AR with the sideplate from a C3 and get backup anti reverse. I have that plus steel gears in one. Yeah I made a Swedish tank.
I haven't done a whole lot to mine. The C, I replaced my anti-reverse pawl, it was some kind of goofy 1 leaf contraption originally, I replaced it with a 2 leaf pawl like every other reel, and never thought about it since. This year I put the 6 pin brake assembly in, which is what this thread is about. I don't think I've ever done or needed to do anything else to it until the levelwind pawl wore out.
My C3 I never did anything to it, this level wind and spool bearing upgrade is the first time I'm replacing anything. I wouldn't mind hunting down a 6500 side plate for both to get bait clickers though, I never realized that was an option until very recently. It might be a little tough as my C3 is a left hand 5501. Any chance you have a thread on that?
After making my last post, I looked into getting a 6500 side plate for the bait clicker. At this time I did not see any that were cheap enough to justify the cost. I even considered selling the reels, and buying 6500's being as they aren't that horribly expensive.
Sunday an old friend who I had not talked to for a while, we didn't talk fishing or anything, just randomly gave me an old Ambassadeur 6000 he had. It has a bait clicker.
Today a member here offered to send me a 6500 side plate with clicker for free since he did not need it anymore. I will gladly put that on my 5500C reel. Thank you both for the generosity. I will pay it forward.
I'm really going to be set up good this year. I fully went through all my reels, fixed some things, upgraded some things. I'm soon to have 3 reels with bait clickers which will come in very handy as I hope to do a lot of trolling this year. It should save my neck a lot of strain turning around as now I can simply hear when a fish takes.
I'm not sure if I will start a new thread or not, but I am intrigued by the Ambassadeur 6000. It doesn't appear to have a C or any other designation, it just says 6000. I have not torn it apart yet, it will get carbon fiber drag washers like all my other reels. The tiny little handle will be replaced. I did unscrew the right side plate, and the brake setup appears similar, but maybe a little different than the 5500C. It's a 2 pin centrifugal clutch, but It doesn't look like the new 6 pin brake block will fit on, I'll see tonight when I open it up again. This reel doesn't have to be a bait caster, this one is probably mostly going to be used for trolling. Outside, the reel looks like most other Ambassadeurs with the exception of a knob on the left side with a dial 1 to 10. It still has a spool tension knob on the right side. What does that left side knob do?
Quote from: slugmeister on April 03, 2024, 11:23:18 PMI'm not sure if I will start a new thread or not, but I am intrigued by the Ambassadeur 6000. It doesn't appear to have a C or any other designation, it just says 6000. I have not torn it apart yet, it will get carbon fiber drag washers like all my other reels. The tiny little handle will be replaced. I did unscrew the right side plate, and the brake setup appears similar, but maybe a little different than the 5500C. It's a 2 pin centrifugal clutch, but It doesn't look like the new 6 pin brake block will fit on, I'll see tonight when I open it up again. This reel doesn't have to be a bait caster, this one is probably mostly going to be used for trolling. Outside, the reel looks like most other Ambassadeurs with the exception of a knob on the left side with a dial 1 to 10. It still has a spool tension knob on the right side. What does that left side knob do?
That sounds like an older 6000. From what I understand, the newer Ambassadeur 6000's were sold in retail stores. Not sure if that's true or not? Walked in the Walmart about almost 20 years ago and they were clearing out all the reels in their fishing section.
All of the reels, were well over 50% to 75% off and just about all gone! There were two lonely, beautiful red Ambassadeur 6000's sitting there! I paid 20 bucks apiece for those last two red Abu reels, still have them to this day, and will never get rid of them. Is your 6000 black?
For sure the 6000 is older. It is red.
That Abu have decals on the side plates?
or is it one of the really old ones that has Ambassadeur 6000, etched into the side plate?
No decals on this one.
(https://i.ibb.co/BjJfcDK/IMG-20240404-002419436.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BjJfcDK)
(https://i.ibb.co/GQffnyw/IMG-20240404-002425654.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GQffnyw)
I took it all apart and cleaned it up. There are zero bearings in this real. The spool is locked to the shaft, and the shaft spins in the end caps in brass bushings. The drive shaft has a plastic bushing. The level wind stuff is of course just plastic gears on a shaft. The internal pictures are not cleaned up, this reel had almost no grease in it, yet it seemed smooth. I cleaned and greased it. The drag is pretty spartan. It's just one washer under the gear, and one in the gear. They are some kind of hard material, not sure what, reminds me of micarta. The drag on this reel is horrible even greased, I hope it gets a lot better with some carbon fiber washers. There's no upgrading this brake setup. It's a 2 pin setup that should work fine for what it is. It's a fairly slow 3.8:1 gear ratio that should be perfect for what I plan to use it for.
(https://i.ibb.co/5ryF4QB/IMG-20240404-003239009.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5ryF4QB)
It turns out what I thought was a typical ambassadeur spool tension adjustment was really just a cap for the bushing so you can oil it easier. The caps have some felt in them so they should stay well oiled. The right side cap I fully tightened. The left side cap with the numbers matches up really good that way. 10 is pretty dang tight, and 1 is free spool with minimal side play. The level wind setup looks just like todays ambassadeurs, The bait clicker is kind of a cool looking thing that ratchets off a gear on the spool.
(https://i.ibb.co/kGy1F63/IMG-20240404-004641803.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kGy1F63)
Here it is all cleaned up with a better handle on it. This reel has some neat features you don't see for some reason. One being a drag clicker, which you almost never see on a baitcaster. I've never seen another ambassadeur with one, and most bait casters, even really fancy low pro ones do not make any noise with the drag.
(https://i.ibb.co/DRBYTkw/IMG-20240404-011216891.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DRBYTkw)
Quote from: slugmeister on April 04, 2024, 06:46:50 AMNo decals on this one.
(https://i.ibb.co/BjJfcDK/IMG-20240404-002419436.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BjJfcDK)
(https://i.ibb.co/GQffnyw/IMG-20240404-002425654.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GQffnyw)
I took it all apart and cleaned it up. There are zero bearings in this real. The spool is locked to the shaft, and the shaft spins in the end caps in brass bushings. The drive shaft has a plastic bushing. The level wind stuff is of course just plastic gears on a shaft. The internal pictures are not cleaned up, this reel had almost no grease in it, yet it seemed smooth. I cleaned and greased it. The drag is pretty spartan. It's just one washer under the gear, and one in the gear. They are some kind of hard material, not sure what, reminds me of micarta. The drag on this reel is horrible even greased, I hope it gets a lot better with some carbon fiber washers. There's no upgrading this brake setup. It's a 2 pin setup that should work fine for what it is. It's a fairly slow 3.8:1 gear ratio that should be perfect for what I plan to use it for.
(https://i.ibb.co/5ryF4QB/IMG-20240404-003239009.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5ryF4QB)
It turns out what I thought was a typical ambassadeur spool tension adjustment was really just a cap for the bushing so you can oil it easier. The caps have some felt in them so they should stay well oiled. The right side cap I fully tightened. The left side cap with the numbers matches up really good that way. 10 is pretty dang tight, and 1 is free spool with minimal side play. The level wind setup looks just like todays ambassadeurs, The bait clicker is kind of a cool looking thing that ratchets off a gear on the spool.
(https://i.ibb.co/kGy1F63/IMG-20240404-004641803.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kGy1F63)
Here it is all cleaned up with a better handle on it. This reel has some neat features you don't see for some reason. One being a drag clicker, which you almost never see on a baitcaster. I've never seen another ambassadeur with one, and most bait casters, even really fancy low pro ones do not make any noise with the drag.
(https://i.ibb.co/DRBYTkw/IMG-20240404-011216891.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DRBYTkw)
Yep, got a 5000 exactly like that one!
It also has a drag clicker as well, actually thought that was pretty neat.
So I've got some bad news to share, my "upgrade" might not actually work. The 6 pin brake block does snap right onto my old 5500C spool no problem. The reel goes together no problem. The reel operates no problem on the bench. The issue is when casting, it doesn't seem the spool can always release. I took my reel apart again to investigate, made sure everything was correct, no better. I put the old 2 pin assembly in, problem fixed. Put the 6 pin in again, problem returns. What I think the problem is, the 6 pin block has the inner pins set pretty high which engage the slots in the gear. The gear does not retract far enough to fully clear those pins and allow the spool to freely spin. It's really close, it can cast, but you can tell it is catching. I do think it's possible either I could slightly file the pins down, or tweak the assembly that retracts the gear to make it retract a smidge farther. I decided to just put my old 2 pin setup back in for now. Since this reel is mainly going to be for trolling duties, I'll just run it with 2 brake blocks and probably never adjust it again anyway.
Well, you can always find bigger brake blocks. You can also make different ones or double them up on each side, if that's what you're looking to do? Also, very easy to control the spool, with different viscosities of oil and grease, if need be.
I had an old 9000 with that same problem. Darned if I can remember how I fixed it. Vaguely, I remember thinking it was something to do with the Kick lever system, but found something(?) out of place in the drive/drag system. Maybe it will come to me...
There's nothing wrong with the reel, it turns out I just bought the wrong part.
So what I bought was a 6 pin brake block assembly, the same as what comes on brand new Ambassadeur's, such as a 5500C3. It uses two round pins in the assembly to engage to the gear. That part snaps right on an old 5500C spool, however those pins are too tall to fully disengage and slightly rub during a cast. I don't know what exactly the difference is with the new reels, different gear, different parts inside to pull the gear farther off, I'm not going to go through the trouble to figure out what.
Anyway, while looking to buy a couple brake blocks (since it's impossible not to loose them) I found it turns out there is another 6 pin brake block assembly, the one I was supposed to buy in the first place. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link to ebay here, but I see some from seller SDS custom reels, they are nearly identical to the 6 pin block I bought, however, it uses a flat plate just like the old 2 pin assembly to engage the gear. Assuming what I get is exactly what is pictured, I guarantee this one will work. It's the same price as buying a couple sets of brake blocks, and you won't loose them. Oddly it says this assembly will also work on new C3 and other reels, so it's kinda odd they aren't all like this.
I'm going to attempt the link. If it gets deleted, oh well. This is the part you need if you want to use a 6 pin brake block with retained blocks to replace an old 2 pin setup.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/255889844501?var=555826658367
Well, not sure where you're located my friend? But don't think, I'll be trying to order anything from the Ukraine.
Quote from: ExcessiveAngler on April 08, 2024, 06:48:27 AMWell, not sure where you're located my friend? But don't think, I'll be trying to order anything from the Ukraine.
You know what's really messed up? I bought from SDS already this year the same day I bought some other stuff from another seller, and they got my parts from Ukraine to here in South Dakota in less time than it took another company to get from Florida to South Dakota by USPS. Our shipping in the USA is an absolute joke.
That's the part you need though, just have to find another seller. I'm sure someone in the usa has them.
thanks for the update and suggestions..
I have a 3500 which has the tiniest brake blocks, have to use my reading glasses to do anything with them..
now looking to see if there's a replacement assembly for the 3500. I'd guess a 2500 one would also fit, as most parts are interchangeable between those models.
I can't take that spool out in the field as the brake blocks seem to self-launch into oblivion as soon as the spool clears the frame.
Not sure what happened to my post again, I'm trying to post a video!
Let's see if the video comes through and then, I'll reply to it
If it's on Youtube, can you share the title of the video? We should be able to find it.
As a quick update on the 6000, I put in the carbon fiber drag washers with Cals purple grease. They are noticeably smoother than the original's, but they are nowhere near as smooth as a modern 5500 with a multi-disc stack. It will do the job for what I need at least.
Oh my gosh, my post is gone again, what is happening? Short version: let's see if I can post a close up picture. I can pick the spool up by the axle, and twirl it back-and-forth in my fingers as quick as I would like!
And these brake blocks, are just not coming off of there. This is out of an old red 5000 with the drag clicker on top of the single drag washer, just like yours.
I think that's normal, at least mine is the same way. My 6000 uses a different style brake block, and I don't intend to mess with them.
Quote from: slugmeister on April 11, 2024, 11:10:07 PMIf it's on Youtube, can you share the title of the video? We should be able to find it.
As a quick update on the 6000, I put in the carbon fiber drag washers with Cals purple grease. They are noticeably smoother than the original's, but they are nowhere near as smooth as a modern 5500 with a multi-disc stack. It will do the job for what I need at least.
It turns out I was incorrect. I took the 6000 out and got into a fair number of northern pike. The drag on this reel is really bad even with the upgraded drag washers. I tried my best to make it better, greased the heck out of it, tried different spring washers. Nothing helped. It seems these reels are kinda sorta ok with like 2-3 pounds of drag, but over that they are so herky jerky they are basically unusable. It made it almost impossible to properly set the hook. I ended up having to crank mine down to where the drag was not even a factor it was just locked up solid. Too bad, I like the reel otherwise. I guess that's why I got if for free though.