I always thought it was odd that Penn made the black plate 3/0 Senator the same width as the 4/0. It would make more sense to have it's width between the 2/0 and the 4/0, and Penn must have noted this also, as the newer red plate 112H was narrowed to "99" width. I knew this could be accomplished on the old black plate 3/0 with a Silverbeach 99 stand, I had seen it in Ted's "2.5/0" modification. Then recently guys here had been discussing the Seaboy 190, and there it was, the aluminum spool I wanted. Time to start tinkering!
This is the 3/0 Senator I started with. A pretty sweet lookin' reel, so I hope I don't muck it up. I made a trade with Joe(Decker) and picked up the needed stand and spool. I also used a set of ss posts from Scott's, a larger #10-49 drag star, and a handle I got from Ted(Maxed Out).
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/785/41169232651_55b55ee61a_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/25HZ5y4)
While scoping out the insides of this thing and deciding what I wanted to do with it, I noticed how easily this model could be double dogged. The red circled area is where we will need some Dremel work, just two easy cuts.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/896/40456467834_980d427318_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24CZYpu)
The first cut is just a slot to house the new dog's flat spring. The second cut is a notched out area to allow the new dog to travel.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/785/40273159295_407d211f0e_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24mNtar)
Here are some of the parts in place to illustrate the double dogged set up. For the new dog I used a #15-200 and filed the tip to match the ratchet.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/883/40456467314_c14198d4d0_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24CZYfw)
You'll want to start the bridge as shown below, with the new dog and spring in place, and the original dog in place too. We'll add it's spring last. I like to add the top two bridge screws after I get the bridge in position, its easier to maneuver the bridge without them in the way. I use an awl to line up the springs and yoke before inserting the screws.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/806/40273158575_98c4639d56_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24mNsX2)
Now I'm not going to sugar coat this...installing these double dog mods can be testing. You need three hands and 15 fingers to hold everything in place, but it gets much easier with practice. I'm at a level where holding the parts in place isn't so hard anymore, just trying to zip it up before I get a hand cramp is the goal. Turn the bridge in the direction of the yellow arrow, and stop when it's halfway over the original dog's screw.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/783/40456466574_2ede210a94_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24CZY2L)
Now just slip the original dog's spring into it's cave. Hee hee...be careful...these springs love to fly away never to be seen again. Pull the bridge on into position and button her down.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/886/41169230871_f6a0d7ff9c_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/25HZ52n)
I'm going to replace the original 3-stack with a carbon fiber 5-stack. For the newbies lurking, the pic below demonstrates how this is possible. The new HT-100 washers are way thinner than those old brake lining discs, allowing more washers to fit inside the gear.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/882/40273161295_55b95f4d50_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24mNtKV)
Here's the old 3-stack pictured above the new 5-stack. Pay attention to the metal washers, alternating keyed and eared washers. Also replace the under gear washer.(on the far right)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/879/41169234981_44b9ea840a_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/25HZ6fe)
Now let's look at the stand and spool I'll be using. Joe was concerned the condition of these parts wasn't going to suit the condition of the reel. I told him to relax...my Dad is a TV repairman...he has an awesome set of tools! ;D
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/867/26269481827_9bc7875a07_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/G2kXJt)
The stand was soaked in vinegar for 1/2 hour, then scrubbed with a mix of baking soda and dish soap. It has a little rash on top, but I'm going to call that "character". The spool was lightly sanded and given a few coats of semi-gloss enamel. I think these pieces will do just fine.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/870/41097624762_c0f2ce1996_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/25BE52h)
I really like how these black plate 3/0s have the extra 2 posts and the 6 screw stand. When the cage is assembled, it almost resembles a frame, and is probably nearly as strong. Understandably, aftermarket frames for the 2/0 and 3/0 Senator never flourished. The new ss posts will make it even stronger.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/821/40273151685_1ffbba3b5d_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24mNqUe)
And here she is! A narrowed "99" 3/0 Senator double dogged with a 5-stack drag. This should be a great reel for fishing spillways and dams, where speed isn't as critical as lifting power.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/898/41173255111_c3eb9ff248_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/25JkGhP)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/801/40273150685_1dae4a349e_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24mNqAZ)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/899/40273151115_e39ce22ebd_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24mNqJp)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/809/40456449424_327e557643_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24CZSW5)
I dig it! With all the bars it looks great. I'd say it needs a SS gear sleeve. Brian has a 7 stack that won't work on a 65 that would work on this and make it a serious winch.
Ron
Quote from: Ron Jones on April 02, 2018, 01:35:26 AM
I dig it! With all the bars it looks great. I'd say it needs a SS gear sleeve. Brian has a 7 stack that won't work on a 65 that would work on this and make it a serious winch.
Ron
To be honest Ron, the only reason it doesn't have a steel sleeve and 7-stack is because I don't have the extra $60 right now. :D I think I'll experiment...see where the brass sleeve fails. I have a feeling for the power range I need brass sleeves might be just fine. 8)
Solid work on a solid reel Mo, it looks good too with the senator double rings. Did you have to tweak the 99 stand to line up the side plate holes?
Mike
Quote from: mhc on April 02, 2018, 02:56:34 AM
Solid work on a solid reel Mo, it looks good too with the senator double rings. Did you have to tweak the 99 stand to line up the side plate holes?
Mike
Not at all Mike, everything lined right up.
Very nice Mo. I love the way those bottom posts hold the frame together when assembling the 2/0 and 3/0 Senators. Now we have a 99 size.
cheers
Greg
That thing is bad!
Thanks for taking the time to share this build with us, I always enjoy reading your posts!
Man, I need to try this double dog thing I keep seeing! I have a 12/0 I might just have to try it on.
Thanks Mo, for the post. You certainly have made a better reel with what you had for options. Personally I've never had a brass sleeve failure. Butt just watch your stuff . More heavy duty fishing will tax gear more. But . Stainless steel is like mag wheels for most of us fishing 🎣.
Keep working on what you like. Just go fishing 🐟
Very nicely done Mike
I often wonder why Penn never offered the mid size 3/0. All the parts were already in the bins on the assembly line
very nice job as usual Moe. Did you use a 99 spool? Would it be possible to do something similar and make it a 501 width?
That's an A Grade Resto Mod Mo. Nicely done.
How's the enamel on the spool hold up over time? Is that auto paint?
Vinaka
Erik
Quote from: Swami805 on April 02, 2018, 06:01:35 AM
Very nice job as usual Mo. Did you use a 99 spool? Would it be possible to do something similar and make it a 501 width?
Thanks Swami! No...there was never an aluminum Silverbeach 99 spool, and even if there was it wouldn't work here. It's not the same diameter...the 99 spool is Jiggy sized...and the 3/0 spool is Longbeach sized. The spool I used is from a 190 Seaboy. Negatory on the 501 width too, as the 501's stand isn't a 6 screw design. If you were really interested in a 3/0 at 501 width, a stock 2/0 should work fine. It's only a few millimeters wider than a 501.
Quote from: erikpowell on April 02, 2018, 07:15:26 AM
That's an A Grade Resto Mod Mo. Nicely done.
How's the enamel on the spool hold up over time? Is that auto paint?
Thanks Erik. Only time will tell how the paint holds up. I used Rustoleum Industrial Enamel, it's about 12 bucks a can, very good paint for a rattle can.
Thanks for all the other compliments too folks. 8)
Nice work mo! Excellent job on the double d also.
...................Lou
Moe: You have made a old reel into a reel to be proud of. You have come a long way since you started out on this site. You are a great contributor. Great Job.
Joe
Super well done, Mike!
Back in the 20's and early 30's here in the US, congress passed a law to prohibit the consumption of alcohol (booze).
Distilleries could not produce booze for American consumption —
There was a strong demand however, and small private "still" operaters produced booze on their own. These were not all gangsters, however. Matter of fact, many were family folks just looking to keep a roof over their heads, food on the table, and raise their families — during the Great Depression that gripped the country for nearly 20 years.
These small operators would need to produce their product in remote areas, under cover of night — to evade the revenue men and lawmen looking for their illegal operations.
Hence the term "Moonshiners".
In order to get their product to the "speakeasies", and their customers — they needed transporatation that would not attract attention — but outrun and handle the rough back roads with 1000 pounds of booze on board — and able to evade the law.
They started hopping up plain, normal looking cars from the outside — into lightning fast vehicles under the hood — with special suspensions, bored out cylinders, extra carbs, sometimes even superchargers. But speed wasn't everything — skill at knowing every curve under different weather conditions at night —along with license plates that rotated with a switch, brake lights to toggle off when needed, even one-wheel lever braking to do a 180 in one lane at high speeds.
These cars still looked like your grandfathers work car on the way to Church every Sunday. Plain, generally black like all the other cars, unremarkable. But in the right hands, unstoppable and uncatchable. Tough, capable, and deceptive.
I really like how Mike's Senator is like those early roadrunners.
He might nickname it the "Moonshiner".
Sorry for the long story — seems like the Penns share a similar timeline and history. Especially when someone who knows what they are doing — is applying ingenuity and clever techniques.
Best,
Fred
Nice Fred, the beginning of Nascar! A lot of the early drivers and mechanics started out running Shine
Thanks Moe, Figured it couldn't be that easy
Thanks again for helping us understand this part of history we new knew butt is still in our roots.🧐
Great Job on that one Mo. ;)
Great work Mike!
Quote from: foakes on April 02, 2018, 02:45:34 PM
Folks started hopping up plain, normal looking cars from the outside — into lightning fast vehicles under the hood — with special suspensions, bored out cylinders, extra carbs, sometimes even superchargers. But speed wasn't everything — skill at knowing every curve under different weather conditions at night —along with license plates that rotated with a switch, brake lights to toggle off when needed, even one-wheel lever braking to do a 180 in one lane at high speeds.
These cars still looked like your grandfathers work car on the way to Church every Sunday. Plain, generally black like all the other cars, unremarkable. But in the right hands, unstoppable and uncatchable. Tough, capable, and deceptive.
I really like how Mike's Senator is like those early roadrunners.
He might nickname it the "Moonshiner".
Excellent idea Fred..."
The Moonshiner" it is! 8)
Nice job, Mo!
awesome build Mo,
you might want to contact Keta (Lee) and check if he still have some of his octagon inserts for your build along with some 112h SS dogs.
I have a 112h with double dogs as well but its standar size spool (I would like to have one of those extra narrows tiburon kits that were sold recently but I have no much use for the reel).
check it out here
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=18915.0
Please note on reels that you can see the gear sleeve pin showing on the outside of the body with the bridge in place you can do it an easier way.
Have the gear sleeve, main gear, and double dogs set in the reel. Now you can set the bridge straight down into the gear sleeve and reel. Putting the pin in last from the outside. It works on the 114H.
That's a perfect size reel.
Keith, that's a great tip.
Nice job, Mo. My Dremel skills are primitive. Did you use a cutoff wheel for the spring slot, and a burr for the rest? Did you make any kind of jig, or is the work all free-hand? Thanks.
Mike
Quote from: mike1010 on April 05, 2018, 06:37:12 PM
Nice job, Mo. My Dremel skills are primitive. Did you use a cutoff wheel for the spring slot, and a burr for the rest? Did you make any kind of jig, or is the work all free-hand? Thanks.
I used a cutoff wheel for the whole operation Mike...all freehand. The spring slot is naturally just a quick zip of the wheel, and I just made a cut downward into the plate and then across, notching out a little platform to match the original dog's "house". It takes all of 5 minutes, it's much easier than it looks. 8)
I can't believe this project is over a year old and I still haven't had this beauty on a rod. Hopefully one of these days...:-\
So many reels..., so little time :D
Quote from: mo65 on July 05, 2019, 06:32:04 PM
I can't believe this project is over a year old and I still haven't had this beauty on a rod. Hopefully one of these days...:-\
ooh c'mon Mo, you are not alone in this kind of problem, I feel your pain buddy.
we need to start doing what our friend Benny is doing, using a 16/0 to catch catfish, a penn torque spinning for trouts, etc, etc
so, next time you are fishing for green bass take your 3/0 and show them hows the boss, time to make the LMB skiing on the surface at 30mph to you per every crank of the reel
:D :D
Quote from: steelfish on July 05, 2019, 07:43:30 PM
Quote from: mo65 on July 05, 2019, 06:32:04 PM
I can't believe this project is over a year old and I still haven't had this beauty on a rod. Hopefully one of these days...:-\
ooh c'mon Mo, you are not alone in this kind of problem, I feel your pain buddy.
we need to start doing what our friend Benny is doing, using a 16/0 to catch catfish, a penn torque spinning for trouts, etc, etc
so, next time you are fishing for green bass take your 3/0 and show them hows the boss, time to make the LMB skiing on the surface at 30mph to you per every crank of the reel
Benni knows his stuff, he's steadily having fun ;)
Quote from: Crow on July 05, 2019, 06:48:37 PM
So many reels..., so little time :D
I hear you :-\...
What a cool little reel you built, Mike, inspiring work to say the least!
Quote from: Darin Crofton on July 05, 2019, 10:13:27 PM
What a cool little reel you built.
It's a misunderstood reel too at times. Compared to a Jigmaster...yes...it's slow. But for what I intend to do with it, it couldn't be better. River fishing is so shallow the slow speed isn't painful like when Saltwater bottom fishing. Looking at this reel from a catfishing point of view is much different. Another popular cat reel, the Ambassadeur 5000, has a 3.5:1 gear ratio. Makes the 3/0's 2.25:1 sound mighty slow.
Now put things into perspective. The Ambassadeur 5000 pulls 18.5 inches per turn. The 3/0's
much larger spool pulls 17 inches per turn. :o The #5-66 main and #13-49 pinion in the 3/0 are massive...
way stronger that the Ambassadeur's drive train. And the drag power difference...no need to even go over that...hee hee!
So for shallow water fishing the ol' Moonshiner 3/0 is nearly perfect for trophy class Blue/Flathead catfishing. I'll still go with that tiny 5000 for 5-15lb. channels though. Thanks for the kind words fellows.8)
How about the "Mo-jo Moonshiner"! Looks like one strong reel Mo.
Just an update on the painted spool...it still looks like it was painted yesterday. No chipping or corrosion at all. This is still one of my favorite creations. 8)