Friends:
Not quite sure where to post this, because its not exactly about fixing reels, although I will point out some design issues that create a need for fixing. But here goes:
I like the way Fred thinks about the reels that were in common use during, say, the 1970's give or take. As a boomer, this generation of reels is what I grew up on. Comparing them to todays reels made for the average person, they win hands down, every time, IMO. Penn, Quick, Mitchell, Abu, Shakespeare, and others.
When it comes to light fresh water, and spinning, I was inspired by the full page ads - sometimes multi page ads - in the outdoor magazines of the day that touted Mitchells such as the 408 as the cats meow, and just had to have one. Unfortunately my newspaper boy earnings of the day had me a bit short when I went to buy one - they were like 25-30 bucks back then, but I did walk out with a small Japanese ultralight that worked for a while - although it also fed the flames of a lifelong passion. I did eventually get a 408, and a Shakespeare 2052, and.... Anyway, over the years, I've expanded my collection but always seem to gravitate back to reels of that era, settling on the smallish reels for pretty much any need I might have for freshwater spinning or light salt water casting light lures, with line up to about 8 lb test. Over the years the preferences for this application have sorted themselves out, so I will list in descending order what my conclusions are, but all are winners.
1) Penn 430SS. Rock solid, metal construction, skirted spool. IMO the epitome of this subset of reels. Weaknesses: a smidge heavy, loud clicker, easily bent or broken handle. Runner up 4300ss. I've used this on everything from brook trout to Redfish, even snook.
2) Mitchell 408. smooth and fast, light. Easy to get parts for. Weaknesses: Parts are needed (although available), real stand too thick for many smaller rods, lighter lines get caught behind the spool very easily. Drag adequate but not as good as the multi disk Shakespeare. Runner up 308.
3) Shakespeare 2052. Smooth, very easy to fish, simple worm gear type drive, multi drag stack. Weaknesses: Plastic spool, line behind spool (although on earlier models the spool had a slot where you could install a pipe cleaner to keep the line out), line gets easily caught around the roller assembly. Now a bit harder to get parts for. I've caught stripers up to 26 lbs on this reel.
4) Alcedo Micron. I have one from the 1950's that was originally owned by Charles Ritz. Love this reel. I use it for trout streams, so its strictly ultra light. Weakness: optimum line size ends at about 4 lb mono. I haven't needed parts for it in over 30 years, nor have I done much more than spritz it with a little Corrosion X. A joy in sweet water.
5) there have been others, Diawas, Shimanos, etc, but none of those really ever lit a flame even if nice.
Except for the Alcedo, I mount these most often on rods 6 1/2 to 7 1/2 ft long these days.
With this said, there are three additional reels that this board has inspired me to pick up on and explore.
1) The small Quicks, like the Microlite and the 110. I have used a 220 in the past, and preferred others like the Cardinal 4 in that size range, so have not done much exploration there. I do have a Microlite, but have not used it. Looks like it will be a stretch to go above about 4 lb test, given the spool diameter.
2) The Cardinal 3. I have fished the larger ones and loved them, and once had one of the black (grey?) Cardinal 3's which I didn't care for and sold. But one of the green and white ones - I believe is worth pursuing.
3) The Orvis 50a. Back in the day I considered this to be a bit of a shi-shi reel, and spendy, and shied away from them in favor of my more mainstream reels, but they were well made and incredibly smooth.
So thanks to this board, I'm about to revisit some of the classics, and perhaps my lineup.
Any thoughts welcome!
Whit
The 5500SSs are some fine little reels from the old days. Sure enjoy mine on anything inshore except a tarpon.
They weigh at 16 oz and very sturdy.
Thanks, Whit!
Good subject to explore for many of us.
Personal favorites are the DAM Quick 265 Microlite, Cardinal 3, Daiwa 500C, Penn 420SS.
Reels I need, but do not have at the present time, are: Penn 714 & 716 old greenies, DAM Quick 1001.
Reels that are nice, but IMO -- hard to work on and tough to get parts for are the Orvis 50a & Alcedo Microns. Nice little reels -- but a hassle when a bail spring, spool, or crank gets busted.
DAM Quicks may be in the same category as the two above reels -- except that I have been fortunate enough to have possibly one of the largest inventories of old Quick parts in the world. These are for rebuilds, and offered to Ohana members. So I am lucky in that regard.
Same with the old Mitchell's & Penns -- plenty of parts in inventory.
Here is one of the ultralight and microlite spinner bins -- in no particular order:
Shimano MLX
Shimano AXUL-S
Daiwa RB 700
Daiwa 1000C
Shakes Sigma 2200 025
Abu Cardinal C3
Olympic Perfecta 200
ABU 752S
Daiwa 70X
Daiwa Mini-Spin
Daiwa 500C
Daiwa 700C
Mitchell 408
Shakes Super Sigma RD 030
Abu Cardinal 653
Alcedo Micron
Alcedo 142
Zebco 707
Shakes 2052
Olympic Zebra 800
Abu Cardinal 3
DAM Quick 238
Penn 4200SS
Martin Perfecta 27
DAM Quick 1000
DAM Quick 265 Microlite
DAM Quick 110
Daiwa 7250 RLA
Daiwa 7270A
Mitchell 308
Mitchell CAP
All good reels that I will and do fish.
Am looking forward to using that Martin Precision 27.
And believe it or not -- that Daiwa 7250 RLA is one of the nicest operating ultralites I have ever used -- after a complete restore. Cheap and capable...
Just my mostly biased personal opinions... ;D ;D ;D
Best,
Fred
Fred Ill see if I can dig up the 716 and 714 reels for you.
Quote from: foakes on September 02, 2017, 06:09:49 PM
Thanks, Whit!
Good subject to explore for many of us.
Personal favorites are the DAM Quick 265 Microlite, Cardinal 3, Daiwa 500C, Penn 420SS.
Reels I need, but do not have at the present time, are: Penn 714 & 716 old greenies, DAM Quick 1001.
Reels that are nice, but IMO -- hard to work on and tough to get parts for are the Orvis 50a & Alcedo Microns. Nice little reels -- but a hassle when a bail spring, spool, or crank gets busted.
DAM Quicks may be in the same category as the two above reels -- except that I have been fortunate enough to have possibly one of the largest inventories of old Quick parts in the world. These are for rebuilds, and offered to Ohana members. So I am lucky in that regard.
Same with the old Mitchell's & Penns -- plenty of parts in inventory.
Here is one of the ultralight and microlite spinner bins -- in no particular order:
Shimano MLX
Shimano AXUL-S
Daiwa RB 700
Daiwa 1000C
Shakes Sigma 2200 025
Abu Cardinal C3
Olympic Perfecta 200
ABU 752S
Daiwa 70X
Daiwa Mini-Spin
Daiwa 500C
Daiwa 700C
Mitchell 408
Shakes Super Sigma RD 030
Abu Cardinal 653
Alcedo Micron
Alcedo 142
Zebco 707
Shakes 2052
Olympic Zebra 800
Abu Cardinal 3
DAM Quick 238
Penn 4200SS
Martin Perfecta 27
DAM Quick 1000
DAM Quick 265 Microlite
DAM Quick 110
Daiwa 7250 RLA
Daiwa 7270A
Mitchell 308
Mitchell CAP
All good reels that I will and do fish.
Am looking forward to using that Martin Precision 27.
And believe it or not -- that Daiwa 7250 RLA is one of the nicest operating ultralites I have ever used -- after a complete restore. Cheap and capable...
Just my mostly biased personal opinions... ;D ;D ;D
Best,
Fred
And you claim you don't collect! ::) Do you have swamp land in the desert to sell, too? ;D
Thanks, Keith --
I have lots of NOS parts for the 716 & 714 -- just never had the reels.
They will be a personal arsenal.
Just let me know how much to send you, and I will get it in the mail.
Actually, I don't collect, Tommy -- just more of a caretaker as stuff passes through my hands on to other caretakers.
Many of us, as we get a little more seasoned in years -- and have disposed of many estates for families of reel collectors -- realize that what gives us pleasure -- does absolutely nothing for 99.5% of the rest of the world.
For me, more pleasure is gained by just being a reel mechanic -- and I try to keep back one of everything, for now anyway.
Someday, it will all just be passed on to others.
Best,
Fred
Fred isn't like us Tommy,
He is an assembly line. All the reels are just going by.
He picks one out for himself once and a while. ;)
I like handling a nice reel & just looking at 'em, but the piece d'resistance is fishing with them--what they were made to do.
Frank
The Pescador 300, Ted Williams 300, Ted Williams 310 and Ted Williams 350, all by Zangi of Italy, aren't bad little ultra-lights, either. Nor is the Pflueger Supreme 550.
I've worked on most all of those reels previously mentioned and fished with a good number of them, too, and I still prefer the smoothness, braking and reliability of the Cardinal 3s, non-skirted or skirted, it doesn't really matter much to me. The one thing that seems to come to the front for those that have a problem with line getting behind the spool on non-skirted spinning reels is they are allowing too much slack line at times, which sneaks back around the spool flange. There's no way that can happen if the line is kept tight. I've never seen that as a problem, myself.
Fred, what is this goldish, tannish colored reel? It reminds me of a Browning but shaped differently.
Alcedo, Chester --
6.6 oz -- made in Italy.
These are well made reels. Slightly larger than an Alcedo Micron.
Not easy to work on without a little fore-knowledge -- because parts will break -- and they are made of "unobtaniumassi"...
Might also be a Cargem from Italy -- they were similar, and mine has no badge since the glue failed.
Likely approaching 60 years old, fairly soon.
Best,
Fred
Something in the back of my mind was bugging me about this reel. While made in Italy, likely by Alcedo, Zangi, Cargem, or Ofmer — the color was not right.
This is an EAGLE CLAW E C O ITALY OFMER SPINNING REEL.
As you can see, the light bronze color kind of closely matches the bronze components on the old Wright-McGill Eagle Claw Rods such as the Trailmaster's and others made by Eagle Claw.
US, European, and Japanese quality reel manufacturers, routinely made batches and runs of reels for US retailers — DAM, Alcedo, Zangi, Daiwa, and many others.
They were typically changed in color and badging — then rebranded under names like Eagle Claw, Sears, Herter's, LL Bean, Orvis, and others.
My guess as to age might be somewhere around the late 60's to early 70's.
Good Reel, as you can see from the drive train.
Sorry for the confusion on my part...
Fred; You never cease to amaze all of us!
Joe
Quote from: festus on April 26, 2018, 02:24:56 PM
Fred, what is this goldish, tannish colored reel? It reminds me of a Browning but shaped differently.
Chester,
The bronze color was standard Eagle Claw at the time, including a couple of subsequent mid '70s Japanese made models. The Ofmers were all circa early '70s, The opposite/right side will have etched letters indicating which model it is and a round recess where the Wright & McGill/Eagle Claw medallion should be glued:
ECO......UL
ECP .....Lite ...4:1
ECQ......Lite...5.5:1
ECR......Medium....4:1
ECRU....Medium....5.5:1
ECS......Heavy
ECT......Heavy Saltwater
ECU.....Large Heavy Saltwater.
They also, in the late '60s sold, by Shakespeare:
ECL......UL....2052
ECM.....Lite...2062
ECH.....Large...2081
Interestingly, Zangi made three models for True Temper (Tru-Spin) with basically the same bronze body color, but they had a gold rotor cup.
Interesting reading, Fred, thanks for all that information. Now I recall hearing of some Eagle Claw reels made in Italy by Ofmer. Matter of fact some were for sale online a while back.
So Tommy, were these ECL, ECM and ECH reels also a bronze color?
Yep, I Googled and found a pic. I'd seen these before somewhere on the net and had no clue they were actually Shakespeare.
And an old ad from 1966. I don't care for today's Eagle Claw tackle, well, maybe their hooks and sinkers are ok but these reels are definitely collectible.
Fred, you need a ten pound spool of 8lb test Royal Bonnyl for that table of classics! :)
Well they're not all "Light" spinning reels but here's five of the eight Ofmer Eagle Claws.
Left to right: ECQ, ECP, ECR, ECRU, ECT
(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/17004_26_04_18_8_05_28_24386100.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/17004_26_04_18_8_05_27_243861239.jpeg)
Tommy you have a nice collection there!
Joe
And thanks to all for posting these great little reels.🤳🤦♀️
And for a question. What's the difference and preference between the penn 4300 and 430 spinners. I,m think 🤔 ing of trying another reel on my walk along the bank. Thanks 💁♂️
Gary,
The 430SS has a metal frame and components — the 4300SS is a very similar reel with graphite frame and components. Both are very decent reels — if there was a chance of hooking up to a large fish occasionally off the bank — the 430SS would do the best job over the long run for you, IMO.
If I had one, I would just send it to you. But if you wanted a different light reel — and I had it —it is yours.
What would you be targeting? Type, weight, river, lake, or sea?
Best,
Fred
Quote from: Midway Tommy on April 27, 2018, 03:12:22 AM
Well they're not all "Light" spinning reels but here's five of the eight Ofmer Eagle Claws.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/17004_26_04_18_8_05_28_24386100.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/17004_26_04_18_8_05_27_243861239.jpeg)
Nice ones, Tommy--you just won't see anything like that coming from a manufacturer today.
Frank
Thanks Joe & Frank. Ofmers are definitely quality made reels. I've probably got ten or twelve other Ofmers between straight up Ofmers, a couple of Pflugers (1040, 1041,1042) and a few Montgomery Ward Hawthorns, etc. Ofmer made reels for several different retailers. One of these days I need to get back focused on obtaining those other 3 and upgrading that ECRU. It's seen quite a bit of use. I got sidetracked a couple of years ago and kind of forgot about the Eagle Claws I still needed. ??? Priorities I guess. ::)
Quote from: foakes on April 27, 2018, 03:44:57 PM
Gary,
The 430SS has a metal frame and components — the 4300SS is a very similar reel with graphite frame and components. Both are very decent reels — if there was a chance of hooking up to a large fish occasionally off the bank — the 430SS would do the best job over the long run for you, IMO.
If I had one, I would just send it to you. But if you wanted a different light reel — and I had it —it is yours.
What would you be targeting? Type, weight, river, lake, or sea?
Best,
Fred
YUP THE 430SS seems to be the looked for reel. However I've caught catfish over 20 lbs. on my graphite 4300SS. Not as a practice. I was catching bait & it was the only combo I had with me a few times so I made use of it... Jeff
Thanks for the info on the 440/4400 pen spinners. Sounds like what your saying in all the reels in these sizes the three digit ones may have been produced earlier. I al just now learning this stuff and had no interest in these before.🤦♀️As a cardinal user. I mostly cast for dolly Varden and pink salmon, lately now, coho salmon in the rivers. All under 15 pounds size. Just wanted to play around some more. Thanks 🙏
Another question is what 15-20# braid line do folks prefer. I've got so different brands that don't cast well on a used p 5500 spinner so before I buy more need some advice. 🤷♂️ Thanks.
I mainly use Power Pro in that range, with a few feet of fluoro.
Gary, here's how I keep track of all those Penn Spinfishers...good ol' MysticParts saves the day again. Just scroll down the page to the Spinfishers. Like John said...that PowerPro is hard to beat. 8)
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Spinning.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Spinning.aspx)
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackles old online store over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Does anyone know if Heddon made any of the two-tone green ultralight reels in the 1960s and 70s similar to the one pictured? I really don't know what size the reel is in the photo I attached, just using it for a reference.
pretty sure there were L/UL Heddon Pal rods, so there must have been a reel to match...
maybe, a Spin Pal ???
Here's one that's pretty small. Next to a 408 for comparison. They're might be a smaller size I have a salty pal rod too
Thanks Sheridan, I don't know much about the Heddons but they were fairly popular atound here when I was younger. Never owned any except for a push button spincast. That size you posted would be ok. They're going pretty cheap on ebay.
In 1953 Heddon introduced it's first open face spinning reel, the "Spin Pal". It was made in the USA. Other USA models were 220, 230, 240 & 260. Most of those were either dark maroon or black crinkle. One economy version of the 230 was nylon/black. Most do not have the model number on the reel, just Spin Pal, if it hasn't worn off. The first Spin Pal had an interesting bail system. To cast, grab the line with your index finger and turn the handle in reverse to open the bail. As soon as you start the retrieve the bail closes, but you have to have a little tension/resistance on the line or the bail won't fully close as it should.
All of the green Daisy Heddons were made in Japan. Daisy bought Heddon in 1959. A lot of them say "Assembled in USA-Daisy/Heddon Parts Made in Japan" on the foot. Most of the parts and Japanese made reels were made by Olympic.
The 205 is a medium size reel. "R" stands for right handed. They also made a 205-L for lefties. The 236 was considered a light size reel and lower end with the external bail trip. These are both earlier Japanese versions. Some later versions were convertible LH/RH by just switching the handle to the opposite side. There were lots of various green models which include 204, 205, 210, 212, 215, 220, 222, 225 & 226 (brown), 233, 234, 235, 236, 238, 242, 245, 246, 250, 251, 252, 260, 266, 270, 277, 281, 282, 283 & 284. They also made 280 & 290 (med) & 295 (heavy salt) Spin-matics that had a strange finger pickup. Those reels are exactly the same as the Roddy Gyros. By the early '70s Heddon was no longer making spinning reels.
Didn't take long to find a couple of Heddons. Sheridan (Swami805) sent me this 236. He also was generous enough to also send a larger one which only needs a bail roller nut which I can probably find something at the hardware store that will substitute.
Yep, the 236 has an external bail trip which actually comes in handy. The bail can be closed manually which is something that most reels with the cupped rotors won't do. These are no-nonsense reels with a minimum of parts. This is the easiest spinner I've ever worked on. I remember these very well growing up in the 1960s. Very cool looking with the green/grey color scheme.
Thanks again, Sheridan. Also thanks Midway Tommy for the review of Heddon spinners.
Cool reel Chester, the Heddons are fun to fiddle with, and I love the colors. They have that great early 60s flair. 8)
Only one problem, Mike. We've done too much praising on the Heddon spinners and conventionals the last few days. Watch for ebay prices and demand to rise. :-\
The innards of these reels remind me of the old South Bends of the 1960s.
Quote from: festus on July 08, 2018, 08:01:31 PM
Only one problem, Mike. We've done too much praising on the Heddon spinners and conventionals the last few days. Watch for ebay prices and demand to rise. :-\
The innards of these reels remind me of the old South Bends of the 1960s.
Getting everyone else on board has advantages too...next thing ya know someone will start hustlin' Heddon parts...and that helps a lot rebuilding these old reels. A few months ago, they all jumped on the Shakespeare band wagon. Prices went hog wild for a few weeks, then it all settled back to previous prices, with the bonus of a lot of parts and basket cases listed. And yes, that one does look South Bend. I've never googled for Heddon schematics...are all Heddon spinners of that design? I only have the 205. I have more experience with the conventionals, and they can represent a variety, I've seen Penn and ABU in them.
That pic above of this reel all stripped down seems all wrong when comparing reels from today. A reel cant possibly work right with that few parts. Right !
Todays spin reel designers seem to be of the mind set that more parts is much more better. The Penn Torque seems to be one of the few present designs that hasnt followed this line... Jeff
Yep, the only parts I didn't remove were the big bail spring and the screw holding it. I think I had one reel that had fewer parts. A Zebco 707 I paid $2.99, was my first spinning reel. Also had the external bail trip. Actually it wasn't much of a reel. It was very light, probably a couple ounces lighter than a Mitchell 308 but it had the slowest retrieve ratio and worst drag on a spinner I ever saw.
The reel repair guy who does the 2nd Chance Tackle YouTube videos has done several of the lower end Japanese models of the 1960s and 70s. The Heddons and most other spinners were practically the same design.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRdCerkhP4Q&t=179s
Nice job Chester, My dad used to take us trout fishing in streams in northern Ca. That reel saw a lot of action, good to know it will be fishing again,Sheridan
Those old Heddon spinning reels tend to attract some attention, maybe in large part because of the color scheme. I don't find much information on them online, although I did get a schematic for my 222 from a generous fellow angler. The numbering scheme doesn't seem to make too much sense--usually smaller numbers mean lighter reels, but I'm not sure that's always true with Heddons. Trying to figure out any parts interchangeability is a nightmare, unless you can find a sympathetic owner who happens to have one each of the two you're trying to figure out interchanges on.
Frank