OK, here's my questions. Which is a better way to spool braid on a spinning reel? Should you have it machine wound evenly & closely spaced or wind it on the reel in it's normal zig zag pattern? Will winding it closely spaced in a machine get more line on the spool then the zig zag pattern? If it does then will having 1/2 of the line out on a fish then overfill the spool after all the line is wound in? I know it should be wound with 8-10# of drag on a machine installation but how about crosswinding on the reel, is it really neccessary? I know about conventional reels but I'm a little in the dark with spinning reels with braid. Rudy
Rudy I spool the braid using the spinning reel. I do this because when your fishing the reel will put the line on like it wants to. Much like you are describing.
I do use a spool holder but the tension is much less than a conventional reel.
On spinners I use the reel to lay the line. This will put twist in the line. BUT when you cast you will undo the twist. If you spool the line directly on to the spool, using a machine, it will go on without twist. But it will introduce twist when you cast. For drag I use 10lb - just like conventionals - that assumes the reel is man enough for 10lb of drag. If it isn't I would probably be using use light gauge mono/fluoro.
I spool it on using the reel also. I always put a few pounds of tension on it. Loosely wound braid on a spinner will dig in just as bad as a conventional sometimes.
Waaasss up Rudy!
Iszis your first endeavor into the realm of finesse fishing with spinning gear? If it is, won't be long and you'll be fly fishin, if you've not already tried it...
Agree with TB, line twist/untwist is the most important aspect of a spoolin line on a coffee grinder. Also, when wetten a line, a good functioning swivel will reduce excess or wrong-way twist.
In the past I've paid people to do it with a machine but I now realize there is no point. Just because you pay someone to do it doesn't mean they will do it right.
The machine in theory can lay braid evenly; however, after a fish makes a run, the reel is going to lay it the way it was designed to..... So it's only going to stay nice on the spool like that if you don't catch anything......
A lot of the modern spinning reels are designed with a really slow oscillation that lay braid beautifully.
I don't think you are going to get much more line on when using the machine. If you want more line, it's best to go with a more premium line that is thinner in diameter.
Don't worry about the line twist. Typically it's just the working end of the line that gets bad. You can just trim a little out or use your fingers to untwist it.
This is how I spool a spinning reel:
First, run the line through the guides and onto the spool with the bail open. If it has a braid ready spool, just tie it on directly. If the spool is smooth, put a little mono backing on. Anything over 20lb-25lb test is going to have too much memory. Personally, I spool all my reels using a kite rod. That way I can do it indoors.
Either put the braid in a line tensioner or just lay the spool on the floor. If laying it on the floor, pinch the line with your fingers right above the bail to give it some tension. It doesn't need to be super too tight yet because you are going to fix that later. Crank it on. Fill it just a little more than you would if cranking it on with a tensioner. Now you need to find a place with a lot of open space. For example, an empty beach. Tie one end of the line to a tree or a post. Walk off the entire spool of line. Crank the drag down and walk back slowing with a nice bend in the rod. As if you were fighting a fish. I like to use a real rod for this part.
That will give you a fully packed spool. It's good to redo/tighten the line every once in a while to make sure it doesn't get loose. Especially if you have a long run that results in a break off.
Just like some guys said, Spooling the line on with the reel and about 8#-10# tension is what I have always don. I have had good success with that.
Joe
Quote from: Gfish on July 06, 2018, 06:37:58 PM
Waaasss up Rudy!
Iszis your first endeavor into the realm of finesse fishing with spinning gear? If it is, won't be long and you'll be fly fishin, if you've not already tried it.
Gfish, I'm not spooling up for small stuff. I'm spooling 80# braid for big stuff from the beach. No finesse fishing for me, just going to throw a half-pound of bait. I've done a lot of fishing with smaller spinning reels. Now it's time for my Spinfisher V 10500.
Sharks?
I believe cranking a spinner with 8-10# of drag to spool it is awfully rough on a spinner especially the higher ratio reels. Spinners are designed for pump & wind not to be used as a winch like a stronger conventional. That is why I was inquiring if it should initially be spooled on a machine. The concenses seems to be to wind it on the reel with a reasonable amount of tension. If it starts to get a little loose it can always be removed & respooled. Or so that's my way of thinking with the info so far.
Quote from: RowdyW on July 06, 2018, 08:40:31 PM
I believe cranking a spinner with 8-10# of drag to spool it is awfully rough on a spinner especially the higher ratio reels. Spinners are designed for pump & wind not to be used as a winch like a stronger conventional. That is why I was inquiring if it should initially be spooled on a machine. The concenses seems to be to wind it on the reel with a reasonable amount of tension. If it starts to get a little loose it can always be removed & respooled. Or so that's my way of thinking with the info so far.
It should be fine. Especially on a bigger reel. Make sure she is greased up. I wouldn't put a ton of tension on a small, freshwater spinner but that 10500 will be fine.
It will get expensive if you're always dependent on someone else spooling it for you.
If the reel is flexing a lot when you are cranking, that's a key indicator that it's not a quality reel. A nice spinning reel will feel rigid under tension.
I know Basil at BHP just uses the spool and an attachment on the line winder to spool spinners. I've sent him the spools before and he gets a lot of line om them.
Yeh! Lots of line maybe. But the twist thing don't float my boat. Wind it on with the reel ;) If you need more line get a bigger reel ???
I think I've got the biggest. It's the biggest Penn. ;D 80#=580yds
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on July 06, 2018, 11:10:42 PM
Yeh! Lots of line maybe. But the twist thing don't float my boat. Wind it on with the reel ;) If you need more line get a bigger reel ???
Winding with just the spool doesn't twist the line. That's why it's done that way. Winding with the reel puts twist in the line.
Winding line with the reel (i.e. normal use) will twist the line. However when you cast the line will untwist. Machine winding directly to the spool will give you a nice compact spool of line with no twists. However, as soon as you cast the line will twist. I would rather have a straight line in/on the water.
Also after the initial cast you are back to square one - spooling by using the reel - you haven't gained much :-\
Sounds like you could machine wind it, then pull off bout 100yds. or more, and hand/reel rewind it back to get things right?
Funnin ya about finesse/flyfishin Rudy. Most a us have probably started out spinfishin. Lookin forward to your posts with the encyclopedic Penn conventional knowledge, which I haven't seen inna while...
Quote from: Gfish on July 07, 2018, 03:20:20 PM
Sounds like you could machine wind it, then pull off bout 100yds. or more, and hand/reel rewind it back to get things right?
if you did that w/ open bail, I'd guess a zero-sum gain...
i.e., you'd introduce, then remove the same amount of twist
If the bail is open how do you wind in line -or am I missing something :-\
It seems to me that when you are retrieving line without any strain on it that some of the twist is going to come out of it either way. Even with a fish on (you should have a swivel on the line) the swivel should naturally relieve some of the twist. I think that to get a real bad twist in the line is to fight a fish with a slipping drag & trying to wind against it. That will really put a knot in your shorts. :D
Quote from: RowdyW on July 06, 2018, 11:33:08 PM
I think I've got the biggest. It's the biggest Penn. ;D 80#=580yds
Yea try to walk off that much line and reel it back on. That's crazy ???
I have a line spooler and a line holder. I dont use the machine for spinning reels. The reel puts the line on the spool as it will be after you are using it.
10lbs is way too much pressure for that reel and your fingers aren't enough. And yes I have a few spinners with 80lb braid on them. If you dont have anything to hold the line get help from someone that can run the line thru a towel while you wind it on. Lay the line in the towel then fold the towel and lay the line in again. It will work fine.
Quote from: RowdyW on July 07, 2018, 11:40:03 PM
It seems to me that when you are retrieving line without any strain on it that some of the twist is going to come out of it either way. Even with a fish on (you should have a swivel on the line) the swivel should naturally relieve some of the twist. I think that to get a real bad twist in the line is to fight a fish with a slipping drag & trying to wind against it. That will really put a knot in your shorts. :D
that's bad
additional twist, on top of
normal twist constantly added/removed with every cast/retrieve through normal function
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on July 07, 2018, 11:24:06 PM
If the bail is open how do you wind in line -or am I missing something :-\
not, wind... "pull off bout 100yds. or more" w/ bail open, thereby introducing
normal twist to a spool filled by machine/drill; then wind back on normally, removing whatever twist was introduced... nothing accomplished
Look guys, for one thing braid doesn't have the memory that mono has. And secondly most memory comes from the spool. I haven't had the twisting problem with my line at any time 60yrs of fishing spinning reels in fresh or salt water. The best way to treat line on ANY reel is to WET IT! So stop guessing what the right spooling is or drag.
Joe
I've got a 115 reel mounted on a 4 ft. board with a holder for a supply spool in the middle that I can use to put my 1000 yd. supply spool on & wind the whole spool of line onto the 115. The other end of the board has a reel mount on it so I can mount my spinner on. Then I should be able to use the spinning reel againt the 115 drag to put the amount of tension I think is adequit onto the spinner. Then what ever line is left over I can rewind onto the supply spool with my homemade arbor (threaded rod) & battery powered drill.
Good idea ;)
Joe
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on July 07, 2018, 08:27:11 AM
Winding line with the reel (i.e. normal use) will twist the line. However when you cast the line will untwist. Machine winding directly to the spool will give you a nice compact spool of line with no twists. However, as soon as you cast the line will twist. I would rather have a straight line in/on the water.
Also after the initial cast you are back to square one - spooling by using the reel - you haven't gained much :-\
They use a process that, I believe introduces a reverse twist to overcome this. From the website:
"and exclusive Streamline process for elimination of braided line twist."
I've had several reel done this way and am very happy with the results, especially compared with using the reel and a line winder.
Ive never had a braided line twist. Never...
No matter how the line was put on.
Quote from: handi2 on July 08, 2018, 10:32:01 PM
Ive never had a braided line twist. Never...
No matter how the line was put on.
I have to agree, and most advice about line twist is a matter of can you top this. ;) ;D
Joe
PS Further more if you change line at least twice a season specially with mono you can avoid line memory.
So what is the consensus?
you can't have a consensus... there are too many variables:
- whole bunch of different oscillation mechanisms, ranging from braid-friendly to grossly inadequate
- braid cross-section shape & diameter relative to reel-size, matters to some extent
- when someone simply says "twist", good luck trying to figure out if they mean
normal twist, which is added & removed by the normal function of a spinning reel; OR
additional twist introduced by reeling against the drag; certain types of lures like in-line (aka, French) spinners; trolling unbalanced baits/lures; etc... which eventually leads to -->
really BAD twist, to the point that the line's functionality is significantly impaired
(BTW, braid twists same as mono, it just takes MUCH more twist to reach the "unusable zone")
Yeah. Several times while trolling, cause of unbalenced bait/lures and swivel failure, I 've had braid twist to the point where I couldn't use the 1st 20ft a line.
I generally have had more obvious twist with mono, not so obvious with braid. As has been said there are a lot of variables at play here.
Just catch a big fish and the twist's will be gone ;D
Quote from: swill88 on July 08, 2018, 11:26:39 PM
So what is the consensus?
My consensus.
This Cabo 120 was supposed to hold 400 yards of 100 lb braid.
I spooled it by hand with gloves on and a another glove wrapped around the braid on top of the 3' bottom section of an older two piece rod.
If my meter is right, I got 460 yards on there.
I spool all my reels by hand, and I think this one is done right.
This reel was serviced and spooled my myself, and I feel very confident fishing it,
Daron