Ok guy's am I alone on this? Most of us at one time or another want or will own a top end reel and we are going to spend BIG bucks to do so. The problem with this is once you finally decide which one you want and fits the budget you go ahead and pull the trigger and buy one. maybe sooner than later you have a problem with the reel and need it fixed or just simply need it serviced, possibly want to even service it yourself, the problem I am finding out is service center either will not service or fix a 800-1200 dollar reel you invested in because the parts have been discontinued or unavailable just a few short years after you made the big plunge, even better than that is these damb companies wont even supply the required oils or sprays to service them your self nor will they recommend or supply an alternative and in some cases go as far as voiding the warranty because you might have put a drop of brand x oil in it. I am referring to Two top Brands specifically : Shimano, Diawa. These companies have no problem selling to anywhere in the U.S. but absolutely refuse to supply there required lubes and sealant so you could enjoy many many years of pleasure by simply doing basic service on your own, even though their turnaround time to repair or service is outrageous! Another thing that pisses me off is the fact that although the JDM and U.S. versions of the same reel with different letters or names share the exact same parts they refuse to service them although the come out of the same building at the same plant in the same country. If these guys refuse to do the required service with their specific oils, grease, and Magseal to maintain the overpriced product they sell, don't sell them to U.S. at all. What a Joke! Rave Over >:(
Best reason I've heard yet not to dump a grand for a coffeegrinder. ::)
On the other hand, half a grand for a beautiful shiny gold Penn Torque coffeegrinder... well, that might be a different proposition. ;)
~A~
My problem with those expensive beauties is that they're too pretty to fish, lol. ::) This makes repair a moot point... unless it's "magsealed"; apparently the oil wears out even if the reel's not used (as per Alan Hawk).
I dropped Shimano a long time ago due to parts being discontinued too soon. I own many Daiwas & Penns, parts have never been an issue, but now Daiwa has ruined things with this mag oil BS. I won't be buying any magsealed reels. Just saw a post from Alan Hawk reaching similar conclusions about magsealed reels.
Quote from: Aiala on August 11, 2016, 06:44:29 PM
Best reason I've heard yet not to dump a grand for a coffeegrinder. ::)
On the other hand, half a grand for a beautiful shiny gold Penn Torque coffeegrinder... well, that might be a different proposition. ;)
~A~
After seeing Torques being made at the Penn plant, I want them all. Wouldn't own a Stella.
Daiwa Saltiga's (and others with magsealed bearings) aren't serviceable! Just say no. Shimano drops support for their reels a couple of years after they come out with a new rev. Both of you want us to drop a grand for a shiny paperweight? Not me!
I use both, I believe the spinner and the level winds both have a specific purpose, but the marketing scheme that these companies have is ridiculous, Okuma on the otherhand maintains a 5 yr. warranty,"the others 1" there service is hands down the best in the business and they will retain that for the new line of Mak. spinners. Make a statement to the others and dump them. These guy's must at least make the products available to do self service and maintain the critical parts to keep them working, hell many of the reels use the same part's but you think they would cross reference them, Heck No, something as simple as a washer or bearing that is probably used in multiple application wont carry the same part number. It's just a %^$#@&*^! scheme!! secret Mag oil what a bunch of B.S.
Quote from: MarkT on August 11, 2016, 08:19:52 PM
Daiwa Saltiga's (and others with magsealed bearings) aren't serviceable! Just say no. Shimano drops support for their reels a couple of years after they come out with a new rev. Both of you want us to drop a grand for a shiny paperweight? Not me!
Ya no kidding a "discontinued" 5 dollar part will shelf it.
This is the reason why I so love the original Penn's SS series. Sure the bling isn't as great, but do you realize how many good and solid spare parts I can buy for $1k? Sure it will take a little hunting, but I'm sure I can find it.
But the Stella and the Twin Drag are soooooo smooooth... what's not to love about those reels...until it breaks.
Quote from: Bryan Young on August 11, 2016, 08:40:55 PM
This is the reason why I so love the original Penn's SS series. Sure the bling isn't as great, but do you realize how many good and solid spare parts I can buy for $1k? Sure it will take a little hunting, but I'm sure I can find it.
But the Stella and the Twin Drag are soooooo smooooth... what's not to love about those reels...until it breaks.
The service, I mean lack of.
You are not alone, TF --
Most of us feel as you do.
The real culprit here is probably the modern Corporate Model -- that puts bottom line profit percentages, shareholder dividends, and market share -- above quality, integrity, pride in workmanship -- plus feeding the Consumer's flame of desire to have the latest, greatest, and sharpest looking product that they have somehow convinced us we need.
Just a little perspective, history, for what it is worth, and just my personal opinion --
At one time, Shimano, a trusted and honorable company in Japan offered stellar customer service, parts availability, and solid products. That is not true anymore...
Daiwa was also a solid company -- while offering way too many variations and models of reels over the years -- stood behind their products -- plus supported their service dealers by publishing "Part Interchangeability Cross Reference Manuals". These were detailed, and very useful -- I still refer back to these. This is not true anymore...
Of course, don't forget all of the reel companies that have either merged, been taken over by super large, Mega Corporations, or just gone out of business. These large firms run the world -- and as these smaller companies are required to maintain certain profit levels, after selling their Soul to the Devil -- they sometimes are required to break promises, trust, and good will with consumers. Mitchell, Quick, Ryobi, Shakespeare, Pflueger, Ocean City, and dozens of others.
Mergers, take-overs (hostile, friendly, or necessary), and just discontinuing products or support -- is the new way of Global Corporate Economics.
This is not unique to the fishing tackle industry -- take a look at automobiles -- Delorean, Saturn, Jaguar, Mercury, Oldsmobile, International, AMC, and many others -- are gone.
Then how about another expensive item -- electronics and computers? How often have we upgraded our operating system, hardware, or software -- just to find that all of our printers, scanners, expensive software programs, etc. -- are basically worthless...
There are still some very good companies out there in the tackle market -- Penn, Okuma, Avet, Accurate, and a few others. However, do not expect even these great companies to be immune from the same bad issues we have experienced with other companies.
Nothing is forever.
For me, even if I could afford to clamp a $1000+ reel to the south end of a rod -- I could not justify that.
In recalling that many larger fish than we land today, were caught on basic, quality, solid, old and proven gear -- I realize that the fish haven't changed -- but we have allowed ourselves to be manipulated by the Corporations.
For me -- hopefully, using a common sense approach of either upgrading or building my own reels of good quality -- will be enough.
Again, just my viewpoints and opinions...
Best,
Fred
The 16 and 14/0 fit that price tag Fred. Its only money. ;)
You said it Fred, computer gear is the WORST!!!
It's getting to be true about all products. Our washing machine broke and it was the mother board or something. $500 bucks to fix it and they wouldn't guarantee that it would work. All these stupid features that no one really needs, just more stuff to break so they can sell you a new one.
How about cars? Back up cameras? How about a window you can see out of and turning your head around. A car that parks itself? Really? Parking used to be on the drivers test, can't park, no license.
I get a kick out of watching news footage from Cuba, seeing all the old cars. They couldn't get new ones so they just kept fixing the old ones, seemed to work out pretty well for them.
Fishing reels are no different for the most part. Big corporations doing whatever they can to feed the beast.
Don't start me off about all this modern stuff, I don't even use a mobile phone ;D
Computer for basics and that is it.
When our current car comes to the end of its time, I am seriously considering finding an old classic car, just basic mechanics and electrics, easy to work on at home.
Mike,
U.K.
this......
Quote from: Toonafish on August 11, 2016, 05:34:12 PM
Ok guy's am I alone on this? Most of us at one time or another want or will own a top end reel and we are going to spend BIG bucks to do so. The problem with this is ........
As usual, Fred keeps us grounded with great oracle wisdom. Things I know but just don't know how to express it or have the smarts to even begin to write what is in my head.
I have the voices in my head - it's o.k. they know me ;D
I agree parts are not available for older classics in many products but at least if a guy owns one of these classics in good shape you can at least still get oil, "magoil",grease and aftermarket parts to keep them running, I talked with a shimano service tech and concurred there are duplicate parts in other models but shimano wont even tell them what the duplicate or superseded part numbers are.
wait a minute,I shouldn't share, but I see a great investment opportunity here, When the newest model comes out just buy all the available shafts, bearings, seals, and whatever is going to fail with wear and in three years start selling them for 5-10 or even 50% more, "what a stella'r idea ???
This is really the model of how a lot of companies do business. It's unfortunate but true.
A few years ago I bought a $2000 TV. Literally two days after the warranty ran up, it refused to turn on. It gives me a blink code telling me which board went on it. I called Panasonic to buy the board. They told me that parts can only be sold to authorized dealers. They have the part but refuse to sell it to me. The service center wants $500.
It's a big manipulative marketing strategy. They don't want you to fix it. They want you to buy a new one or give their authorized service centers the business.
I gave up on consumerism a long time ago. Having the latest and greatest is overrated. It makes you happy for about a minute until something new comes out.
I've fished with $1300 spinning reels and I honestly can't say I noticed much of a different between a $300 spinning reel......
Fred I agree with you totally. I have had a few customers mad when they find out their high end reel broke and the company never made replacement parts to fix.
While trying to avoid going in too many directions in TF's original thread --
Alan T. is exactly right on --
None of us should expect a high end spinner to be any better than a spinner for less than half the $$$.
Just because we paid $1300 -- that does not give us any special mojo or privileges.
And Daron is right also -- a Penn 14 or 16 are expensive reels -- but they are built for a definite purpose -- landing large fish in the range of 400-1000 pounds, or more. Something a spinner will never be able to do.
As for buying extra parts for a Stella, or similar high end reel. Probably not practical -- but a nice idea. The oil or seals would likely leak out before getting a chance to sell them for the Mother Lode. I do buy multiple brand new Jigmasters and 209's from Wal-Bomb or Amazon, at around $60, on-line -- gives me all of the spare parts I might need -- at a fraction of buying parts a few at a time.
Salt guys spending big bucks for a reel, may complain for awhile about non-parts availability -- but then will just go out and buy another reel. The corporations know this.
As for the Corporations and Brand loyalty --
If we do a little research, we find that a few large Corporations each own hundreds of what we have considered "large, established" and historical brands.
These companies gobble up other companies -- install new management, institute a "Business Operation & Procedure Manual" throughout their kingdom -- and everything is predicated on a 15% return on investment -- or it is spun off, sold, or closed -- no exceptions -- just business.
Gone is the pride in individual products for consumers -- more money is made for the conglomerates by selling their various companies, merging, stock splits, valuations of stocks, and acquiring more companies through profits and leveraged buy-outs.
We justify this to ourselves, by saying -- well, they do create jobs...and that is true for some in the US, many in China, and many other parts of the world.
Then we say, well, they pay lots of taxes -- don't they?
No, not really -- take a look at Google, or Apple, as an example.
During a Senate investigation into Apple's avoiding of paying US Corporate Taxes a couple of years ago -- Apple, based in Cupertino, California -- would have a Corporate tax liability of up to 35%...
Using their full time resources of accounting, legal, and international options -- they set up a base of operations in Ireland. They had a small operation already there for nearly 30 years. So they decided to funnel all profits from overseas sales through their Irish operation. Ireland's tax base was only 12.5% -- but Apple was able to negotiate an agreement with the government to lower the rate to 2%.
This avoided 12.5 Billion annually -- in US taxes, according to the Senate Investigation hearings in 2013.
Legal, yes...Morally correct...not so much.
Many Senators and Congressional Representatives are using Apple products provided through special test programs -- at little or no charge.
Investigation has ended with no result -- just more dodging by Apple and the politicians.
With rare exceptions -- the days of Otto, manufacturing a solid product in his small plant, are gone.
We can only use common sense and experienced judgement when buying products -- and we can still expect to be burned from time to time.
When touring the Penn plant in May, the Penn Torques are still made in the Philadelphia plant -- and they are a bullet-proof value -- and selling very well. Penn has needed to adjust their operation focus -- just to keep up with the demand from consumers, retailers, and tackle shop sellers.
Just a few personal views.
Best,
Fred
people ask me constantly about recommendations for spinners. yeah, yeah, yeah, i'm not the spinner guy. but my recommendation? spend $20 to get a daiwa sweepfire or sure fire. okuma also has a $20 spinner. they all work fine out of the box. when they fail, throw them away and buy a new one! want a tank that will last for more than one season? old school penn spinners. need more than 5 pounds of drag? go conventional...... :-\
I agree that the obsolescence thing is frustrating. I don't know if it's planned obsolescence or inevitable obsolescence. But, that's how the world works and you have to take the good with the bad.
On the good side, we have access to all the available new parts and used parts and expertise at our fingertips. Thirty years ago you would be snail-mailing someone a self-addressed stamped envelope just to get a schematic and, later, mailing off your parts order with a check.
Fishing reels do not hold their value very well. If you grow attached to a particular model then start shopping for used reels so you will have parts when you need them.
It's a hobby and is not life threatening. Don't buy what you cannot afford to loose.
-steve
Quote from: alantani on August 12, 2016, 05:31:07 PM
people ask me constantly about recommendations for spinners. yeah, yeah, yeah, i'm not the spinner guy. but my recommendation? spend $20 to get a daiwa sweepfire or sure fire. okuma also has a $20 spinner. they all work fine out of the box. when they fail, throw them away and buy a new one! want a tank that will last for more than one season? old school penn spinners. need more than 5 pounds of drag? go conventional...... :-\
Ah, grasshopper, so much more to it than that! :D
all true. i just hate to see guys spend more money than they have to. ;D
The ~$125 to ~$250 range has a lot of really good reels right now.
Quote from: alantani on August 12, 2016, 09:09:12 PM
all true. i just hate to see guys spend more money than they have to. ;D
We all know you hate servicing spinners, Alan. ;) Maybe you will start since you have all that extra time after retiring. ;D ;D Do you need a few to practice on? Bob
i just spend the last two hours ironing shirts. trust me, i have plenty to do! ;D
Can I send a couple of mine? ugh..hate ironing, lol :P
Quote from: alantani on August 13, 2016, 05:28:16 AM
i just spend the last two hours ironing shirts. trust me, i have plenty to do! ;D
why does a retired guy need his shirts ironed?
because i had to wash them because they had been sitting in the closet so long that they had a layer of dust on them and had to be washed. now, back to spinners. ugghhhhh!!!! ;D
I prefer to pair mid range reels with top end rods...
Regards
Mark
It is sometimes frustrating for me to WANT to try a new fangled reel, spinner or otherwise, and know that spending upwards of a thousand dollars would get me shot, stabbed, and burned, by the wife ;D. While I can afford it, the pleasure for me is in the hunt for the bargains, the diamonds in the rough. I like buying gear at bargain prices, and using the heck out of it, without fear that it will break or become obsolete. And, if I can work on it to fix it up or make it better that's great. I guess that's one reason I've always like Abu bait casters, older Penn spinners, and Penn conventional reels. I've only recently gotten into some newer gear, mainly Daiwa. I certainly didn't run out and pay new retail prices for any of it though. I hunted for the bargains, and found some good deals. I really enjoy that. My rule of thumb on buying gear is that it must cost less than a nice outfit that I buy my wife. Then, when she asks(and she will), about what I spent on a rig I can say "honey, this rig here cost way less than that last outfit I got you", and she'll smile and say OK, LOVE YOU HONEY. ;D And, all will be well in the world. ;)
I agree with all that's been said above though. The days of companies building quality products that last is pretty much a thing of the past. There are few, the ones mentioned above, that still operate to build quality that lasts. It's all about money, the bottom line, and how to get the customer to buy multiple times. They won't tell you this when you're buying an item, but they want you to come back and buy MORE. At a 1000 dollars a pop, they can keep them high dollar reels. That is, unless I can find one at bargain basement prices!!! ;D
This thread makes no sense. Dont like a reel? Dont buy it then. Simple as that.
In the past I was brand fanatic until I found out that the high end spinners had the gear train made from what essentially is pot metal. I chose to change my way of thinking and embraced multipliers. Even in a cheap multiplier one will find the geartrain made from either brass, bronze, stainless steel or a combination of the two. Fortunately with a bit of wisdom one can find an excellent spinner that will do the job and last for 10 years when used and maintained correctly before needing parts replaced.
What high end spinners use pot metal gears? Shimanos from $200 and up use brass pinions with cold forged aluminum main gears. They even have a couple $100 reels with the same setup. Higher end daiwas use bronze pinions with CNC cut 7075 aluminum main gears. The saltiga uses bronze pinion with CNC cut bronze main gear. The Penn slammer and torque use bronze main and pinion. The okuma metaloid and makaira use stainless steel main and pinion.
The reel in question was a Shimano Ultegra and it was in 2002.
Nowadays there are 2 US versions of the Ultegra. Neither are high end reels. The cheaper one has pot metal gear, better one has forged main gear.
The Spinfisher 700 and 700Z series (from large to small) have been around for fifty years, are robust, you can still find parts if you need them and you can buy them cheap at auction. I'm not big on spinners, but others have come and gone while the Spinfishers keep on ticking.
-steve
Quote from: alantani on August 12, 2016, 05:31:07 PM
people ask me constantly about recommendations for spinners. yeah, yeah, yeah, i'm not the spinner guy. but my recommendation? spend $20 to get a daiwa sweepfire or sure fire. okuma also has a $20 spinner. they all work fine out of the box. when they fail, throw them away and buy a new one! want a tank that will last for more than one season? old school penn spinners. need more than 5 pounds of drag? go conventional...... :-\
Sounds logical Allen, except I can't line my thinking up with the "throw them away" part. Probably just me. It does seem like it would encourage the " manufacture cheap throw away crap and they'll buy more" business model. Not too bad, if people'd recycle whenever they can. Perhaps the "art" in this case is in the business model. I see lotsa people at the big Mart(W&K) stores an' out fishin', that can probably afford only this type a stuff, been there myself.
One thing I love about this site is all the info. On buying old school quality, rehabing, tweaking and having access to great after market upgrade products. Also, fisherpeoples real world opinions on new stuff they'er using.
Quote from: Elgreco on September 09, 2016, 07:02:26 PM
This thread makes no sense. Dont like a reel? Dont buy it then. Simple as that.
I don't think this thread is about liking, or not liking a reel. Rather, it's about buying an expensive reel and then a few years later the new model comes out and the manufacturer quits making parts for your very expensive reel. And, as we all know, eventually EVERY reel may need a spare part for servicing or repair. And, when you can't find any parts for your very expensive reel you'll then have a very expensive sinker, or small anchor, or a pretty paper weight.
I don't think there isn't a fisherman anywhere that doesn't enjoy using good gear. You know, the gear that's smooth, powerful, pretty, and just fun to use. We all enjoy great gear. I think the main issue is this expensive gear, that is really good, and enjoyable to use, is not supported long term by manufacturers. New models come out, and the ones you bought just a few years prior are no longer supported with parts or service. The manufacturers fully expect us to buy ANOTHER very expensive high tech reel, which they'll replace with another newer and BETTER model a few years down the road.
So, my main question about this expensive gear is how cost effective is it to buy these 1000 dollar reels? You know, I can see making an investment in a good reel if the reel will last a long time, and parts and service is available for the life of the reel. A lot of us, at least in my case, I look at gear as an investment. It's an investment in the tools that I use to enjoy my spare time, an investment in the tools I use to keep my sanity from leaving me after a long week at work. So, I want to get the most for my money. I want my gear to be good, last a long time, and give me the most for my money. I look at my work gear the same way. A lot of folks at work(I'm a corrections officer) think I'm nuts for spending over 300 dollars for a pair of work boots. But, the way I look at is that the boots I buy will usually last me at least 3 years, sometimes four. So, instead of spending 150 dollars on a pair of boots that only lasts for one year, and would cost me 450 over the course of 3 years, I spend 300 up front and enjoy some exceptional boots for those same 3 years.
If these expensive reels were lasting, and being supported as long as say the Penn 704Z's or the Daiwa BG's, they would make a lot more sense to buy. As it is now, for a lot of folks they're not very cost effective. However, for folks who don't mind that, and enjoy using fine gear, the manufacturers enjoy and will continue selling them the expensive reels. That's the great thing about a free economy, demand will create a supply, and there will be plenty of variety for everyone to buy whatever it is they enjoy using.
And, one of these days I'm gonna run across a Stella, or Saltiga, in a pawn shop or resale shop and snatch that bad boy up for a song.(I just hope it's not an old one that I can't get parts for! ;D)
I approach this in a manner that is illustrated by the difference between a scientist and an engineer: the former works with the "absolute" whereas the latter works with the "good enough." To get to "absolute" will probably take the best equipment available but is something that only the FEW will replicate once proven given the cost and resource commitment involved. To get to "good enough" means applying the knowledge from the "absolute" but is repeatable and practical for MANY to do get to a desirable result.
The gains from a high end spinner will NOT follow a linear progression. As in many things in LIFE, the law of diminishing returns applies. There is no comparison of a $20 to a $1000 spinner, but are the differences so great with a $200, $300, or $700 reel to a $1000 one? I'd say "NO." If one is in the habit of frequently targeting cow tuna with a spinner, the $1000+ reels may make sense. From a utility stand point, IMHO, most anglers will not be in that position. Hence, I have followed the path of "good enough" in my fishing equipment. The 10 setups I've taken on the last three SOA charters are under $2000 total. Just a few of Alan's loaner setups easy broke that $2000 threshold. I caught and landed fish without ever thinking "GEE! I really wanted to use a $1000+ setup for that fish I just landed."
If one is in the position of being able to always get the best, then more power to that individual. For those of us not in that position, we'll do well enough with less expensive gear. I find this situation also has parallels to the part of the movie "A Beautiful Mind" where Russell Crowe's character works out that by having the guys go after the beautiful blonde's friends increases the chances of ALL the guys "hooking up" rather than having every guy trying to win over the blonde herself and getting nowhere.
Quote from: Porthos on September 11, 2016, 08:48:51 PM
If one is in the position of being able to always get the best, then more power to that individual. For those of us not in that position, we'll do well enough with less expensive gear.
Here I think we have to define "BEST". Best at what? Casting? Higher drag? Smoother operation? Large capacity spool? Ease of service? Waterproof? Aluminum? Graphite? Light weight? Heavy weight? Fast retrieve? Slow retrieve? Low price for features? High price for features? Best for a given type of fishing? Lasting a long time?
Best is a relative term, and subjective. Best to me, may not be best to you or some other fishermen. In my mind high cost doesn't equal "best". I think an argument could be made that high cost could mean overpriced. To me, I look for "value" for my money. I want the "most" for my hard earned cash. If I buy a 1000 dollar reel, and a new model comes out a year later and the company stops servicing my reel, then the reel breaks and I can't get it fixed, the value for my money is not very good. However, if I buy a 100-200 dollar reel and it lasts ten years with regular service and I can get parts for it if anything breaks the value for my dollar is much greater. And, if that 100-200 dollar reel satisfactorily performs the same functions I would have asked the 1000 dollar reel to perform then really, which one was "BEST".
Quote from: Elgreco on September 09, 2016, 10:25:02 PM
What high end spinners use pot metal gears? Shimanos from $200 and up use brass pinions with cold forged aluminum main gears.
Aluminum does not make good gears and can be considered as "pot metal" in this case.
I've been able to maintain my Okuma CD65 and CD90 to out-of-the-box functional condition for almost 8 years running, The CD65 had been fully dunked in the sand at Solmar Beach, Cabo San Lucas. What made the rebuild a breeze was having done Alan's pre-service maintenance on both reels--sand intrusion was kept to a minimal by all the Yamaha blue.
IF I was in the market for a full lineup of spinners, I'd pick up the Quantum Cabo PTsE 40, 50, 60, 80, 100, AND 120 for less than the price of ONE Shimano Stella 30000. Every Cabo would then get the pre-service maintenance done. 3-5 years down the road I'd keep a lookout for news of Quantum replacing the PTse's and start perusing the web and eBay for the inventory clearance sales and pick up another complete set of Cabo's as parts units. All this for less than the price of two Stellas. I suspect I have a good chance of keeping the Cabos functional for at least 10-15 years if not more.
Cold forged aluminum = hammered/pressed into a mold/die. It's cheaper, easier, repeatable. Not machined. No one uses more fancy, meaningless, made up terms, than Shimano, like Hagane Technology... oh please!
You hit the nail on the head with the Quantum reels. They are great. The Smokes for inshore and Bocas for offshore.
Plus any parts needed are so easy to get and cheap at tackleservice.com
People get attached to a name and it becomes a status symbol. I noticed two reels one a status symbol (costing in the 200 dollar range) was almost identical in design and metal composition as another company's lower end reel (20-50 dollar range). The company's are not related or division of parent company. They were so much a like I bet if debadged and painted same color people would not be able to tell a part. Another incident I was repairing a reel which needed a side cover bearing. I called my part distributor who told me the reels manufacturer no longer carried bearing but they had a cross reference for the same bearing but totally different company and reel. The only difference was the part listed for twice as much.
Fred said "For me, even if I could afford to clamp a $1000+ reel to the south end of a rod -- I could not justify that."
I mean really, you could sponsor a vocational school for a third world village's vocational school (or militia) for a year!
I have friends spending crazy money on tackle, van staal gloomis deep drop stella fast boats you name it. I just read now they make 750hp outboards that cost a 100k each! Pretty soon ther'll be M $$ center consoles to catch sailfish.
Maybe I'll go retro, use a cane pole! Which is how I learned to fish! Some sweet big sturdy bahamian ladies with big hearts of gold along a seawall in Dinner Key Marina took the time to school us ragamuffin kids on catchin mangrove snapper, grunts & small yellow tail.
Quote from: mangrove on April 18, 2017, 02:01:03 AM
Maybe I'll go retro
Basically what I've done. 99.9% of my fishing is with pre 80's Abu Ambassadeurs. I don't fish for what they cannot handle, I have two lifetimes worth of parts in inventory, never had one break or wear out anyway. They're heavy and building up my forearms though!
Basically I agree with 99% of what has been said on this thread - the 1% will have to wait.
Recently looked in some old boxes for a reel to lend to someone starting to fish surf, and found an original 'Made in America' Spinfisher 750, probably near 20 years old - I only used it for heavy spinning back then, and it has been 'resting' in a box since. Opened it up, and while modern reels deserve the name 'coffee grinders', this from an internals point of view is a 'meat grinder'. Solid stainless and brass gears, even on the ancillary gears. The grease was a little aged, replaced and probably as good as the day it left the factory. Totally unlike all the made in China versions since those dizzy days when we all looked for modern attributes to our reels.
On the more modern reel, I have to also agree with the vote of praise for Quantum Cabos, 1/3rd the price of more exotic reels, and spares available, and robust enough to suffer all that our local anglers have been able to throw at them, only had one failure of these Cabos, the guy managed to run over it in the road, but apart from that they just keep fishing on, despite being totally immersed in sandy and salty water, and being used to amazing drag levels of abuse.
Can't help thinking that the comments about the Ultegra were a little rough, given that it is just basically a long distance casting reel, intended for nothing more strenuous than a carp and a lower price range at that. Have had a couple for well over 4 years, and they are still working well, though a few niggles, but given the budget status of them, it isn't really worth complaining. They have both been used for more 'gentle' surf fishing with lighter tackle, when good distance is premium, and in that capacity they excell. It would be nice to have main gears and other ancillary workings made of stainless, but unlikely give the price.
I think that this whole episode with Diawa is that they have shot themselves in the foot, Shmano just have a special department thinking up new Japanese sounding names for 'soon to be obsolete', and the rest seem bound to follow, with publicity material that gets as close as concievably possible to waterproof, but doesn't actually say it - because they all leak. The only saving grace of these 'water bottles' is Penn are using gears that don't dissolve in salt water.
Just my 2 cents.
Cheers from sunny Africa.
Jeri
As strictly a "freshwater" guy, I have to say I truly admire and appreciate the reception and infatuation with of all the newly designed and Asian manufactured reels. That leaves more examples of the older higher quality reels for those of us that just want to catch fish after fish with minimal investment, repairs and servicing. I haven't found a '60s - '80s quality spinning reel that can't do anything & everything "freshwater" that I want out of a reel. Mum is the word in my book, but those newfangled reels sure are pretty. ;D
I am sorry this isn't about reels in general but I saw where someone mentioned appliances. I am a plumber and electrician by trade. Lots of American companies using the same mentality as Daiwa and Shimano. Look at Sears,Penny's, Macy's, The old Rich's all fixing to go out of business or out. I bought a freezer from Sears(a cheap one) 30 years ago and it still works today. About 6 years ago I bought a $2300.00 fridge form Sears. It had a 5 year warranty. Exactly 5 years and 6 months the compressor went out. Contacted Sears and they said good luck with that. I said I've bought a lot of appliances from Sear's over the years,personally and in business and they said, we can't help you. I took the thing apart> Chinese compressor. Found a replacement and installed that about 2 years ago. I might have 3 more years life now. Another company, Kohler the plumbing company. I used to buy kitchen sink baskets from them made like a tank>lasts a long time, solid chromed heavy brass >$45.00. About a year ago I ordered one online $55.00 plus shipping. I got the part and as soon as I felt the box I knew something was wrong. It didn't weigh anything. Opened the box,and it looked like it was made out of cheap pot metal and it cost $10.00 more + shipping from China to get it here. It's all about bottom line. My old Kenmore washing machine went out after 20 years>transmission. I started looking online for a replacement and couldn't find a single new washing machine that there wasn't some problem with. Called a friend that taught appliance repair at a technical college. He said just put a new tranny in the 20 year old washer. I ordered one $125.00, watched a you tube video, had the thing back running in an hour. That was 2 years ago, still working. Until people realize which company's still care about the customer and which don't, nothing will change. I'm was never the cheapest plumber or electrician, but I have always done the best for the customer. I am now plumbing and wiring houses for children of previous customers. David
Quote from: Midway Tommy on April 19, 2017, 06:13:01 PM
As strictly a "freshwater" guy, I have to say I truly admire and appreciate the reception and infatuation with of all the newly designed and Asian manufactured reels. That leaves more examples of the older higher quality reels for those of us that just want to catch fish after fish with minimal investment, repairs and servicing. I haven't found a '60s - '80s quality spinning reel that can't do anything & everything "freshwater" that I want out of a reel. Mum is the word in my book, but those newfangled reels sure are pretty. ;D
Shoot I've been toying with the idea of buying a new Abu re edition Cardinal from japan tackle for the stupid price of $330.00. Only thing stopping me is wondering parts availability down the road. Arthritis is starting to make spinners look better to me........ God I cant believe I admitted that.........
I just got a Daiwa Saltiga 6500H in that hasn't been serviced since it was purchased seven years ago!
Ordered a full set of seals, a couple of bearings and a new pinion mag seal chamber.
A couple of bearings are an unusual odd size. Seems to be a trend here.
Daiwa service has been particularly disappointing in Oz of late so fingers crossed X.
~
A friend of mine that tournament fishes for Cobia has 3 original Van Staal reels that have never been apart. They are at least 10 years old. I told him I could service them and have all the parts and he responded "Why"..!!
Speaking of appliances when I bought the home I'm in now 6 years ago all the kitchen appliances are Viking except the fridge which is Sub Zero.
The Viking microwave is made by Sharp. The stand alone Viking ice machine is made by Kenmore as is the refrigerator drawers.
Quote from: handi2 on April 21, 2017, 11:26:30 PM
the home I'm in now 6 years ago all the kitchen appliances are Viking
Is that the same Viking as Viking sewing machines, a subsidiary of Husqvarna?
Viking is renowned for there commercial ovens and hoods.