Let me start by saying I had a lovely plan to take a bunch of internal pictures, i didnt think of it as i had it open. Something about super greasy fingers makes me leave my phone in my pocket. Either way there's nothing i can do photographically to improve upon Sal's 970 thread
(https://alantani.com/index.php/topic,10273.0.html) So I dont feel as bad. If this reel had come out in the modern era it would be a low-profile reel. It has all the dimensions of one except height.
I used a 10 tooth steel 113 sleeve, a 5 stack drag, and one of what I believe are Lee's steel 113 dogs. I kept the stock under-gear washer. I was never able to remove the bearings from the cups, so it still has stock bearings. I also used a tiburon handle for now. The pics below show how full the spool is with 330 yds of 30# daiwa x8 braid.
I did file down the dog a bit. As it sat originally lee's dog would have the spring more compressed than stock, making it louder. So I expanded that gap to match the stock dog and it helped on noise a bit. I don't mind a clicking dog at all. But i don't want it to be louder than it has to be. It just needs to work.
So here's the weirdness. With both bearing cups tightened as far as humanly possible, the spool still has like a 1/16" lateral play. I have a very clean 980 whose spool adjustment works correctly, I tried those bearing cups, same thing. Tried the 970 cups on the 980. There stops being axial play long before its tightened down all the way. Which is what one would expect.
So either the spool shaft (specifically the portion that's outside the spool) is a shorter on my 970, or there's some reason the sideplate doesn't seat all the way down? But there's no gap between plate and frame on either side. Next step I guess is to try the 980 sideplates with 970 spool and frame and see if it's different.
Freespool isn't incredible. Likely due to still using old stock bearings. With magnet removed I'm getting about 15 seconds with an empty spool. So despite the axial play I'm gonna go try to fish it this weekend anyway, also see how it casts. Having the multicolor braid will help me quantify that.
Has anyone figured out the functional max drag on one of these with steel sleeve and 5 stack? I don't imagine i wanna push it past 20#
Great job, Jason!
Best, Fred
Does your tension knob have the spring inside?
Quote from: Rancanfish on November 22, 2023, 07:50:37 PMDoes your tension knob have the spring inside?
It sure seems to. When I press it against the spool (with both removed from reel) it certainly bounces back. It's just odd that it works in one but not the other.
so, you're calling it a Beast but dont want to push it to 20# , there is only one way to know if its a beast or just a strong reel
what could be wrong? bending the spool shaft ?
I say go for it, just for the science !
One of Sal's FAVs!!!!!
Wayne
It seems like a pretty stout little reel. I guess my hesitation is the side plates and the multi-piece frame. Is there a reason no other reel (that I know of) continued to use fiberglass sideplates? Has anyone ever damaged one with a fish, or is it always just screwdrivers?
QuoteIt sure seems to. When I press it against the spool (with both removed from reel) it certainly bounces back. It's just odd that it works in one but not the other.
Just on the left side, ie:
(http://i.imgur.com/NjNwZZX.jpgv)
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on November 22, 2023, 09:42:51 PMIt seems like a pretty stout little reel. I guess my hesitation is the side plates and the multi-piece frame. Is there a reason no other reel (that I know of) continued to use fiberglass sideplates? Has anyone ever damaged one with a fish, or is it always just screwdrivers?
Bro, I whipped up on a nice 50 pound striper and multiple black drum over 60-70 pounds! This happened all back to back, using this reel completely stock lol!
Had it on a 10 foot one piece All-Star break away surf rod!
Told you you would like it! Lol!
Did you try soaking the bearing cap with the bearings in them them?
20 lbs is a lot of drag. If you load that 970 with 65lb drag, it would be all you need.
I seem to remember that those reels have the polycarbonate sideplates. Other reels too. It was the new high tech plastic at the time. Polycarbonate is stiffer and maintains dimensional accuracy better than Bakelite. But since it doesn't compress much, it will crack if you tighten the sideplate screws too far. It also is not the greatest for UV resitance, but being black helps, and it hopefully has a surface coating. Should be stronger than Bakelite where it counts - if not cracked. I would suspect that newer plastic sideplates (like the Chinese senators and jigmasters) are using fiber filled nylon (AKA "graphite"). Can't imagine that Bakelite would still be used. Nylon is cheaper than Bakelite and polycarbonate, less likely to crack, and plenty strong enough for the job.
Narrow reels like the 970 are at much lower risk of twisting under load because of the decreased leverage when the line is at the sides of the spool. Flat double screw crossbars also are much better than those round posts for keeping everything rigid.
You can put the reel in a reel seat in a vice, jerry-rig the back end of some digital calipers, and pull on some line under load and be able to get some reasonably accurate flex measurements if you want to find out for sure.
-J
Sal was a big fan; I don't know where he got that affection as the Magpowers were essentially developed for OBX surfcasting as I understand it. As well with Aiala; another stellar individual whom we don't hear enough from. I believe Alan sent him some, but he showed me a Tolkienesque cabinet of them. His commentary on a thread somewhere in the annals of AT was that the little reel was perhaps too strong for its own good, having been developed appx. 20 years prior to the advent of braid. I had a cracked plate as per previous discussion about brittleness, and Sal sent me a a drive plate out of the goodness of his heart, which was ginormous to those that knew him. This particular plate he had double-dogged, and I wouldn't bet an empty beer can he didn't pull it from one of his personal reels to help me out. That plate still sits as a talisman and I've yet to install it. I aim to have my head right when I do that surgery, and I'm not there yet.
Well, I think the person that really made the Penn Mag Power 970 popular, was John Holden.
It's on the cover of his long-distance, casting book published, I do believe in 1982.
They definitely can be feisty for sure lol!
Have to be very careful, casting light braid with these reels! You can really lay into a cast with this reel using mono though.
I like the way they look stock just fine!
But who wouldn't like to have a one piece frame lol!
Those reels are tough as nails. I believe the spool shaft is the same as a 114h, plenty strong. All those features and they never really caught on, not a failure but not a big seller either. The one weak spot is those brittle side plates with the tiny screws
Oh this thing can cast. I was afraid to really lean into it just yet and I only threw about 5 casts before I had to go do family stuff but on a stiff 7' rod with a 3oz weight I was hitting 70 yds. I can definitely do better. This thing is incredible. Now I just gotta fight something.
Nice handle and great job Jason. Sal loves this reel. The 970 is one of the best surf, distance, fishing conventionals of all time, and in the right hands will out perform nearly all modern beach casters. How did you find one in this great condition?
It was on eBay. I got it for a great price because ExcessiveAngler was kind enough to not get into a bidding war with me.
I may try to take it to the beach today.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on November 24, 2023, 02:53:13 PMIt was on eBay. I got it for a great price because ExcessiveAngler was kind enough to not get into a bidding war with me.
I may try to take it to the beach today.
Yeah, yeah yeah, don't rub it in buddy lol!
Was very hard for me to tell you about this particular 970, it was in mint condition!
None of mine, are that clean and I told you what I paid for both of mine!
I paid double what you paid, went to great lengths, to get them as well!
Hopefully, you'll hold onto it, they don't come up very often in that condition!
Quote from: ExcessiveAngler on November 24, 2023, 06:27:19 PMQuote from: JasonGotaProblem on November 24, 2023, 02:53:13 PMIt was on eBay. I got it for a great price because ExcessiveAngler was kind enough to not get into a bidding war with me.
I may try to take it to the beach today.
Yeah, yeah yeah, don't rub it in buddy lol!
Was very hard for me to tell you about this particular 970, it was in mint condition!
None of mine, are that clean and I told you what I paid for both of mine!
;D ;D ;D
A couple more thoughts...
Sal was right about the 970 being a bit before it's time. With the larger shaft, and probably a heavier spool, it should not make as good a distance caster as something like a 925 or even a Squidder with a frame upgrade. Also a bit oversized reel for the spool size. So sort of a heavy duty/small line capacity reel with a magnetic cast control and a medium-high gear ratio. Definitely an odd duck until gelspun braid became popular over 20 years later, and that extra load capacity and cast control became much more important in a small volume spool reel.
In terms of load, I assume that you have upgraded to the stainless steel gear sleeve. Even so, and even with the 970's oversized gear sleeve, you are going to have to worry about that handle arm junction when winding against more extreme loads. That aluminum handle arm would be my bet for the first component to wear out - especially with the extra arm length and that cranking knob.
Sal was not a big fan of the extra long arms and full hand grip knobs on reels that needed to be worked a lot (like tossing lures, or retrieving long casts. He leaned more towards a slightly longer than stock arm and a nice chubby torpedo style knob. Good for speed winding, but still up for some heavier cranking. I agree. Those long arms and big grips only become an advantage when winding against heavy load.
Here is one of his preferred arm styles and a knob that he made for me on a jigmaster.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/25/11927_13_10_18_9_39_54.jpeg)
-J
I'll measure the spool shaft length from my 970 parts reel later today...stand by.
Well, the reel was easily accessible in garage...a hair under 86mm. From your pics, your plates and rings are fully seated.
My 970 has about 325 yds of 50lb solid braid...it is the designated 30lb reel on the SOA charters...maybe 40lb in a pinch. Personal preference to go no higher purely based on spool capacity.
Have landed dorado, YFT, and YT on it. Still hoping for a BFT hookup on it someday.
YMMV.
How bad #### would it be to see a one piece frame for this guy. Further how cool would it be to see that frame as a low profile
Speaking of simpler more likely ideas, I bet a modified (basically upside down) reel foot/base could also achieve that goal with a lot less fabrication.
Not that it's needed. This just sits really high for the size of the spool.
It has been discussed in older threads about the solution(s) to the plate/screw breakage issue:
- Pillar bedding with brass/metal tubing. Basically cutting "pillars" the height of the gap between the rings and plates; will need 8 that fit just right
- 3-D printing one-piece inserts that would take up the space in the gap
- milling new rings/one-piece frame with internal pillars for all the plate screwholes
Of course, the "just snug enough and no overtightening" involves no "special" effort...
Also I got to try it at the beach a bit. I had a 15mph head wind, but I struggled to gdt a 6oz sinker past 60 yds. Best cast was 85yds and that was during a break in the wind. but I'm still using the original bearings that i can't get out of the cup. I may have to hit mystic. So i cant do an apples to apples against other reels using brand new high quality/sometimes ceramic bearings. But all those casts after the first few were entirely thumb free except at the landing. So I'm still pretty impressed.
Quote from: Porthos on December 01, 2023, 12:57:21 PM...Still hoping for a BFT hookup on it someday.
I take that back...totally forgot about this trip in 2013:
https://www.bdoutdoors.com/forums/threads/tribute-7-19-7-21-1-5-day-took-home-1-fish.505359/
BFT on 970...DONE!!! It's a BFT on the Monofil 27 that is still on the bucket list!