Hello again Folks,
I've been collecting the Penn 'Z' series and am now thinking about adding some Mitchell 300's to the herd. I like 'old-school' reels that with proper care and some spare parts, should have a lot of life left.
Thinking is to only buy Mitchell 300's that are made in France and avoid everything else. Starting out, I can see where buying mint (hopefully unmolested) reels would be best to learn from before obtaining well-used and parts reels.
I'm assuming that parts for 300's are still reasonably available?
And assuming that braided line is a no-no?
I see that the anti-reverse lever was changed from a 'bumerrang' shape to a single lever in later years. Meaningful difference?
And I have seen where the anti-reverse dog was changed from metal to plastic. Problems with the newer, plastic dog?
As always, your comments are appreciated. Fred H.
In my opinion —-
Vintage spinners to fish and collect would be the Penns, like you already have.
Add to that the earlier Penn "greenie" Spinfishers.
And D.A.M. Quick spinners from the early 50's to the late 80's.
And ABU/Zebco Cardinal spinners in the early green & tan, brown & tan, and the all tan bodied ones.
And Mitchell spinners. The more valuable Mitchell's would be the 308/408 smalls —- and a few others.
These are generally good values and can be picked up reasonably —- keeping in mind that they will last a lifetime+.
Parts are available for all of these.
Best, Fred
I dislike the plastic composite AR dog on my "74 300. But it's New in box old stock, that's never had line on it, i.e. a "shelfie". If you're gonna use your 300's, I'd stick to the version 6 and older. Also, the boomerang shaped AR switch is better in my opinion, as the the straight lever could get smashed at the bottom. You will see quite a few changes in the reels, especially the spool construction, if you go back all the way to the reels made in the 40's. Small changes yeah, some significant, some seemingly not...
I've fished braid for several years on my 1954 301, works fine, do leave a 1/4" or more lip on the spool edge to minimize pulling off loops when casting.
Thanks fellows for the comments.
Quote from: Cuttyhunker on December 18, 2023, 08:46:17 PMI've fished braid for several years on my 1954 301, works fine, do leave a 1/4" or more lip on the spool edge to minimize pulling off loops when casting.
Good to know that braid is ok.
Quote from: Gfish on December 18, 2023, 08:27:04 PMI dislike the plastic composite AR dog on my "74 300. But it's New in box old stock, that's never had line on it, i.e. a "shelfie". If you're gonna use your 300's, I'd stick to the version 6 and older. Also, the boomerang shaped AR switch is better in my opinion, as the the straight lever could get smashed at the bottom. You will see quite a few changes in the reels, especially the spool construction, if you go back all the way to the reels made in the 40's. Small changes yeah, some significant, some seemingly not...
My 'brief' research revealed that the plastic AR Dog was for a 'quieter' operation. It's my nature to prefer a metal part over a plastic one, but was the plastic AR Dog problematic? I would hate to pass on an other wise good 300 if having a few spares on hand would 'save the day'. A better question may be can a metal AR Dog replace the plastic one?
Quote from: foakes on December 18, 2023, 07:43:50 PMIn my opinion —-
Vintage spinners to fish and collect would be the Penns, like you already have.
Add to that the earlier Penn "greenie" Spinfishers.
And D.A.M. Quick spinners from the early 50's to the late 80's.
And ABU/Zebco Cardinal spinners in the early green & tan, brown & tan, and the all tan bodied ones.
And Mitchell spinners. The more valuable Mitchell's would be the 308/408 smalls —- and a few others.
These are generally good values and can be picked up reasonably —- keeping in mind that they will last a lifetime+.
Parts are available for all of these.
Best, Fred
Thank you Fred 'floaks', I've never considered the D.A.M. or the ABU Cardinals. Adding The Mitchell 300's to my stable is sort of throw-back to being a kid in the '70's. All the 'real' fisherman I knew used them.
There's nothing wrong with the nylon AR dog. I have replace both the nylon ones and the metal ones for different failures.
In my observations, the failures lean ever-so slightly more toward the metal AR dogs. I think I've replace more metal ones because the end bends back onto itself during failure. I've never had one fail on me but the ones I have acquired on the cheap were purchased this way.
The nylon ones failed because the post that holds them in place failed bending away from the main gear. When this happens the nylon teeth distort or grind off from the torque pushing them up and away from the main gear teeth.
As you point out the nylon ones are some what quieter.
If I had a choice, I would lean towards the Mitchell 300s with the boomerang AR lever with the smooth top, because the reels are older and quality is typically better.
Also, if you can find a good Mitchell without the 300 number (see attached photo), it typical will be much smoother. As with everything, it depends on well they were maintained.
The Mitchell rotor spins in the opposite direction of most spinning reels and that bothers some people.
Overall, they are a great general purpose serviceable fishing reel made at an affordable price which is why so many were sold between the 50s-80s.
I grew up with them and recently converted to the Dam Quicks and Penn because they are much quieter when fishing with my buddies on a bass boat. The Mitchell has a unique sound which is comfortable to me but can be annoying to others.
Bank fishing, I use the Mitchell reels still.
Thanks jtwill98----It has been a great many years since I heard Mitchell 300 operate. If the noise bothers your buddies, just offer to fish with a Penn 'Z' series or 'greenie'. ;D
Never seen one with the "A Garcia Product" sticker on it. Maybe that's from when the Garcia company first came into the picture. The MG 300's seem to last with those odd,mostly aluminum gear systems. The most common issue for old used ones seems to be the need for shims in 4 different areas.
Quote from: Gfish on December 19, 2023, 01:08:20 AMNever seen one with the "A Garcia Product" sticker on it. Maybe that's from when the Garcia company first came into the picture. The MG 300's seem to last with those odd,mostly aluminum gear systems. The most common issue for old used ones seems to be the need for shims in 4 different areas.
Yeah, the silver & black sticker was the first. Shortly thereafter they used a yellow & black sticker just like it. Next came the Garcia etching.
BTW, most of those stickers have long since worn off and/or disappeared. Most of the really nice looking ones you see nowadays are reproductions.
Hey Folks, Just pulled the trigger on Mitchell 300 from that on-line auction site. Decision to buy was based mainly on condition. Looked for light use, no rough handling, and screws still in pristine condition, hoping to avoid reels that were poorly serviced and incorrectly re-assembled. I want to learn the 300 from one still in factory condition and not have to figure out what a previous person did not do correctly.
Serial # prefix is 'E', which dates this one to 1975, right? Screws look perfect except for rear side plate. Bail Wire Chrome look excellent.
Thanks to all as, although I did not buy the most desirable version, I did buy 'informed'.
More Pics. I don't think the seller was the orginal owner. Starting to think reel has never been 'spooled'. Ebay is always a gamble, we will soon know if I did ok or not.
The reel looks clean and based on the rear screw may have been opened once.
If you do service it, they are several videos on line.
A couple I would recommend are:
- By Wallace (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yfw_5-rYKng)
- By Dennis (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4gBxAWDhb4)
They should provide you all the information you'll need.
Good Luck and enjoy fishing with the reel.
Yep, I didn't see that 'bugger' on the rear side plate screw until after I bought it and did not have a shot of the 'oil port' screw. My fear is that some well-meaning 'expert' got inside and left out some of the shim washers. Any thing else I can figure out just by inspecting.
Regarding dating of the reel, the "E" prefixing the serial number assertion being a 1975 model is correct according to the MRM site.
BTW, the site is going away soon. So take snapshots or download the html files from the site before that information is gone. Wallace indicated he's moving the information to Facebook, which I refuse to join.
As far as shims go, our friend Fred (foakes) on this site has you covered should you be missing any shims or just want to tune the reel. If for some reason, he doesn't (haha (inside joke)), I have a limited supply for my collection and I can help you out.
I would open the reel and inspect the gears. I suspect if anything there will be an abundant amount of grease or harden (crayon chunks) of grease inside.
While in there you can check for the pinion gear shim and possibly the main drive gear shim. The main drive gear shim may or may not be present or needed. It depends on if you see scratches or rubbing on the case cover.
The other shims are for alignment of the spool height in the rotor assembly under the baffle plate. Those are more frequently misplaced or lost.
There's many folks here that can guide you on their placement and how to properly adjust them if required.
One will never know if additional (or sometimes less) shim washers are needed until a complete disassembly, cleaning, reassembly, lubrication sparingly, and testing are accomplished.
Generally, as parts wear down on these 300's —- an extra 1 or 2 shims may be required in certain areas. This is the nature of the 300's. Shims took up the slack.
Once you receive the reel —- if any parts are needed —- I have new screws and every other part. Just let me know.
It is a very nice reel.
"Roughness in operation" is generally shims, or wearing and grinding of the alloy gears.
The "boogered" screw is an example of why hollow ground gunsmithing screwdrivers of the correct size are highly recommended by me and other reel restoration mechanics.
It will still operate perfectly —- but it could be improved slightly to near new.
Best, Fred
Hi Fred 'floakes', I truly appreciate you taking the time to post your 'words of wisdom'. Once I have this reel in hand, I will start a serious evaluation and 'we' will figure out what parts I want to replace (hopefully just the one screw!) and what parts are prone to wear and failure that I want to have on hand such as bail springs, line rollers, anti-reverse dog and spring. And as you mentioned, a selection of the various shims.
In order to maximize reel parts interchangeability and to minimize 'my stash' of spares, I may limit myself to acquiring just this version of the 300. As the 'risk' is somewhat lessened knowing that I have at least a 'parts' reel.
Fred H
Forgot to mention, I too, prefer to use the best and most correct tools. I have from Brownell's, their largest hollow-ground gun-smithing screwdriver set. Bit width and thickness are listed to the 0.001". Additional I have every 1/4 inch socket (English and Metric, 6 & 12 pt) that USA Craftsman ever produced!
Yep, I'm a bit 'anal', thanks to my Dad's teachings. He was tough about his tools!!!
Stupid question.
Since we are discussing Mitchell 300's made in France, any discussion of part dimensions should be in metric, meaning millimeters. Right? Or do most folks here describe a metric part using USA inches (0.001").
I must be stupid too, cause I don't know the answer. HA-ha! Only stupid question is the one you DON'T ask.
Which dimensions did you wanna measure?
I believe most Mitchell reel enthusiasts speak metric as that is a European measurement. I've seen it used here on this site.
BTW, here's a thread on the art of shims:
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=27334.0
Quote from: shootandfish1 on December 20, 2023, 08:01:53 PMStupid question.
Since we are discussing Mitchell 300's made in France, any discussion of part dimensions should be in metric, meaning millimeters. Right? Or do most folks here describe a metric part using USA inches (0.001").
I'm an old stubborn tradesman and not much into the World Order science aspect of things. I never really understood why the US gave into metric measure terminology. Nothing irritates me more than when I go to the doctor and get weighed and then the nurse has to go to the computer to convert kilograms to pounds. Sheesh! >:D I can't even imagine trying to build a house via the metric system so I'm sticking with Imperial & SAE until I die and let someone else have to do the conversions. I did, though grudgingly, pick up a few metric wrenches to use when all else fails. ;D
Since we are discussing designed and 'Made in Frace' reels, it stands to reason that the 300's are made to a metric standard for all parts. Since my calipers are in 'Inches', it is simplest just to quote a dimension in inches and show a converted millimeter (mm).
By the way, 1 inch is EXACTLY 25.4 mm (no round-off).
0.001 in = 0.0254 mm or 1.0 mm = 0.03937 in
0.1 mm = 0.00394 in
0.01 mm = 0.000394 in (just in case)
Quickly skimming new found reading material on 300 shims, I found references to Michell Brand Shims (4 different ID's and OD's (Need to revisit later)) in the following thickness.
0.1 mm which equates to 0.00394 (0.004) in.
0.15 mm which equates to 0.00591 (0.006) in.
0.2 mm which equates to 0.00787 (0.008) in.
I did this fast and if I didn't make a mistake, one can readily tell what shim thickness they have using either a metric or English calipers.
Fred H
The Mitchell 300 is the reel that led me to this site 4 years ago.It should be in every collection.I have tinkered with the shims several times,but prefer the 304 & 308 for my type of fishing.It is probably the best looking reel ever made imo.
I hear you, Tommy, on the metric system. Don't particularly care for it, but all the cars these days are mostly metric, and have been for awhile. I think the Europeans basically said "if you wanna sell stuff over here, it has to be metric." A good part of American industry bowed to that.
Frank
You are correct, Frank. Bowing and kissing the those rings is what irritates the heck out of me. ;) :D