Penn is now making new and improved machined gear sets for all ssv models. At first it was only going to be a direct swap from the 5500 and higher models from the new Clash reels. I own a ssv4500 model myself, and wished the gears were of better quality. Well, my wish came true and can't wait to get my beat up reel a new upgrade :) I figure others may be interested, so here it is: http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/topic/638658-ssv-gear-upgrade-kit/#entry10941546
Are those going to be machined out of Aluminum - Stainless Steel, or Bronze ?
Never mind, found the answer.
Sal
In case anyone else wants to know, the new set is aluminum/brass main and brass pinion. I personally think it's a huge upgrade to the cast zinc main and brass pinion of the original stock.
To put things into perspective, a close comparison would be the stradic fj, which has a aluminum main gear (infused with some sort of black coating) and a brass pinion, and that reel still feels great even after a couple years of hard use.
Perhaps the brass and aluminum mix is supposed to make the gear tougher. I don't know, but knowing what I know about the stradic fj, I think the new ssv gears will be a good investment over the long term.
Feel to correct me if I'm wrong here as I'm far from being an expert :)
I just remembered something. the fj gears are cold forged, and not machined. I think I remember reading Alan Hawk saying that cold forging can make gears much tougher than machining. Anywho, machining and materials still better than the previous cast zinc, so still looking forward to the upgrade.
Thanks for pointing this out! I'm in, about to purchase another SSV 5500 and this do nicely!
Quote from: newport on January 12, 2016, 04:09:37 AM
In case anyone else wants to know, the new set is aluminum/brass main and brass pinion. I personally think it's a huge upgrade to the cast zinc main and brass pinion of the original stock.
To put things into perspective, a close comparison would be the stradic fj, which has a aluminum main gear (infused with some sort of black coating) and a brass pinion, and that reel still feels great even after a couple years of hard use.
Perhaps the brass and aluminum mix is supposed to make the gear tougher. I don't know, but knowing what I know about the stradic fj, I think the new ssv gears will be a good investment over the long term.
Feel to correct me if I'm wrong here as I'm far from being an expert :)
The small sizes are aluminum, and the larger sizes are brass. Its not (necessarily) an aluminum/brass alloy.
Aluminum can be very strong, and suprisingly hard given the right alloy, and the same can be said for brass. I would expect these gears to be very high quality.
The smaller sized Main Gears (SSV 5500 and below) are a very hard Aluminum alloy. Relative to the cost of the gears the actual material is inexpensive (but an expensive Alu alloy), it is all about the CNC machining and finishing of the gear.
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii261/haugusnord/haugusnord001/P1030188_zpsdurhvwqe.jpg) (http://s266.photobucket.com/user/haugusnord/media/haugusnord001/P1030188_zpsdurhvwqe.jpg.html)
The Pinon Gears are also of a harder Brass alloy than are currently used in the SSV to my knowledge. I don't know if they are the same alloy as the larger main gears.
The Main Gear in the larger sizes (6500 and larger) will be machined Brass. This as well is no garden variety Brass alloy and is a top notch choice.
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii261/haugusnord/haugusnord026/P1030544_zpsb7otzkve.jpg) (http://s266.photobucket.com/user/haugusnord/media/haugusnord026/P1030544_zpsb7otzkve.jpg.html)
John, thanks for posting these, I had no idea Penn was making the machined brass, those look nice.
Give me your take on the drilled holes, weight reduction, or heat reduction?...or perhaps something else?
Sal
Quote from: Alto Mare on January 15, 2016, 10:45:01 AM
John, thanks for posting these, I had no idea Penn was making the machined brass, those look nice.
Give me your take on the drilled holes, weight reduction, or heat reduction?...or perhaps something else?
Sal
Just weight reduction. :)
The gears are not cheap even though they are *not (*edit) made in the Philly factory. I was happy and surprised to learn that the SS gears in their Fathoms etc are Made in USA there and then shipped to the factories in China for assembly into those reels.
Penn did share with me what the alloys are in a gesture of trust, but asked me to keep a lid on it to keep their competition on their toes. The Aluminum and Brass are definitely not some garden variety choices (there are a number of alloys of both out there and these are not what you would call off the shelf types).
Three sevens, thanks for clearing that up.
John, appreciate the photos. Thosse gears look really nice.
i always wondered what metal --aluminum or brass-- would make a stronger drive gear with the same machining/forging process. Now I know.
Will have to follow up on this with Penn.
Sal I have some Penn Clash reels in here for pre-service if you would like to see more of the larger reels gears. The larger reels have the machined bronze gearing. And I believe the pinion gears teeth are chrome plated.
Quote from: handi2 on January 16, 2016, 11:51:07 PM
Sal I have some Penn Clash reels in here for pre-service if you would like to see more of the larger reels gears. The larger reels have the machined bronze gearing. And I believe the pinion gears teeth are chrome plated.
Yea, I'm going to ask Penn on Monday for sure about that because I don't think it is actually plated. I think it may be a harder Bronze alloy that has a more "silver" tint to it that polishes in use.
If you can take the time Keith, your's being production, could you pull one out and take photos of it to share?
best
Thanks Keith and John for the information.
I have a feeling those are not plated, looks like they went all out on this one.
Penn is on the right track, nice for them to offer those.
Sal
John - Thanks for sharing the info and pictures. I think it's pretty awesome that Penn actually takes the time to put this info up onto forums getting feedback and the like. I've also noticed that with Accurate, extremely active on Facebook answering questions and private messages within a few short hours. I believe this is the best way to improve customer base, especially with the changing times; less people going into tackle shops and more people hunting for information/opinions online. People to people skills are still the best, but if you can master the keyboard as well you are going to be on top. (Just my opinion).
Back on subject, looking forward to getting a set for my SSV6500 :)
Hey everyone,
We now have the new gear sets in stock. Please see the search page here: https://www.mysticparts.com/Search.aspx?k=cnc+gear+set (https://www.mysticparts.com/Search.aspx?k=cnc+gear+set)
They are available for the base SSV reels, not the live liner and long cast reels. The smaller gears are an aluminum main and brass pinion set, and the bigger gears are both brass. The SSV5500 and SSV6500 are interchangeable, with the SSV5500 being made of aluminum, and the SSV6500 made of brass.
If you have any questions, please contact us here: https://scottsbt.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/requests/new (https://scottsbt.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/requests/new)
Nice, are the all brass gears the same as the gears for the clash?
Quote from: FatTuna on May 23, 2016, 06:16:32 PM
Nice, are the all brass gears the same as the gears for the clash?
They are the same materials but the Clash gears have a different spec.
I have a 4500SSV with broken gears and am considering the upgrade to the CNC aluminum/brass. The upgrade is about $50, so wondering if my money is better spent on a used 450SS. Can I get opinions on whether these will last, compared to Spinfisher SS 2nd Generation?
Tough decision because you will get different opinions! I would get the new gears and fish the heck out of your SSV, it will be a little cheaper, you'll get to know your reel a little more, and it will last as long as you decide to take care of it :) Just one fisherman's opinion...(I love my SSV 6500, just needs a better handle knob).
Plus, parts are readily available for the SSV...parts for the early SS reels are getting harder and harder to find.
The gears are not cheap even though they are *not (*edit) made in the Philly factory. I was happy and surprised to learn that the SS gears in their Fathoms etc are Made in USA there and then shipped to the factories in China for assembly into those reels.
Penn did share with me what the alloys are in a gesture of trust, but asked me to keep a lid on it to keep their competition on their toes. The Aluminum and Brass are definitely not some garden variety choices (there are a number of alloys of both out there and these are not what you would call off the shelf types).
[/quote]
Not to get too off topic, but I'm curious: If the SS gears in the Fathom are made in the US, does anyone know whether the gears in the Squalls are made i the US? Squall gears seem softer to me...
Just got my SSV4500 with upgraded gears back from Penn. Cranks super smoothly. Gonna fish the heck out of it, and *hope* it lasts.
Question for the engineering types... The SSV4500 a smaller reel than I usually would fish with in salt water, but I want to use it for surf casting lures and plugs. The nominal specs say up to 25 lbs of drag (and I understand that fishing with that much drag is unrealistic). 20lb Sufix 832 braid. Can I handle a 30lb+ striper or 20lb+ bluefish without risking breaking the reel?
Quote from: Decker on November 10, 2016, 03:58:56 PM
Just got my SSV4500 with upgraded gears back from Penn. Cranks super smoothly. Gonna fish the heck out of it, and *hope* it lasts.
Question for the engineering types... The SSV4500 a smaller reel than I usually would fish with in salt water, but I want to use it for surf casting lures and plugs. The nominal specs say up to 25 lbs of drag (and I understand that fishing with that much drag is unrealistic). 20lb Sufix 832 braid. Can I handle a 30lb+ striper or 20lb+ bluefish without risking breaking the reel?
The technical answer is if you keep your drag settings reasonable the reel will function as intended regardless of what's on the other end. You might not stop it, but the reel won't break.
Quote from: rippin_lips on November 10, 2016, 08:56:43 PM
Quote from: Decker on November 10, 2016, 03:58:56 PM
Just got my SSV4500 with upgraded gears back from Penn. Cranks super smoothly. Gonna fish the heck out of it, and *hope* it lasts.
Question for the engineering types... The SSV4500 a smaller reel than I usually would fish with in salt water, but I want to use it for surf casting lures and plugs. The nominal specs say up to 25 lbs of drag (and I understand that fishing with that much drag is unrealistic). 20lb Sufix 832 braid. Can I handle a 30lb+ striper or 20lb+ bluefish without risking breaking the reel?
The technical answer is if you keep your drag settings reasonable the reel will function as intended regardless of what's on the other end. You might not stop it, but the reel won't break.
Right, and understood, but I'd like more information. What kind of situations put the most stress on spinning reel gears? Does "rippin lips" (a fast and hard hook-set on a big running fish) stress the gears more than say, trying to reel up a snagged lobster trap? I'm not going to hoist with it, and have never broken a reel. I invested in the gear upgrade, and since it is a relatively light size, I am wondering what to avoid (besides too high drag adjustment) to keep it within its limits for surf/jetty/pier/inshore.
Quote from: Decker on November 11, 2016, 04:52:28 PM
Quote from: rippin_lips on November 10, 2016, 08:56:43 PM
Quote from: Decker on November 10, 2016, 03:58:56 PM
Just got my SSV4500 with upgraded gears back from Penn. Cranks super smoothly. Gonna fish the heck out of it, and *hope* it lasts.
Question for the engineering types... The SSV4500 a smaller reel than I usually would fish with in salt water, but I want to use it for surf casting lures and plugs. The nominal specs say up to 25 lbs of drag (and I understand that fishing with that much drag is unrealistic). 20lb Sufix 832 braid. Can I handle a 30lb+ striper or 20lb+ bluefish without risking breaking the reel?
The technical answer is if you keep your drag settings reasonable the reel will function as intended regardless of what's on the other end. You might not stop it, but the reel won't break.
Right, and understood, but I'd like more information. What kind of situations put the most stress on spinning reel gears? Does "rippin lips" (a fast and hard hook-set on a big running fish) stress the gears more than say, trying to reel up a snagged lobster trap? I'm not going to hoist with it, and have never broken a reel. I invested in the gear upgrade, and since it is a relatively light size, I am wondering what to avoid (besides too high drag adjustment) to keep it within its limits for surf/jetty/pier/inshore.
A spinning reel is essentially not designed to crank under load, of any kind, unless just enough to take in line as you drop the tip.
The most expensive reels have more margin for higher loads, but it is to be avoided as much as possible.
It is not a winch.
This may explain your need to replace the stock gears. :)
John, makes sense... that is why using a spinning reel is more "pump and crank" than heavier conventional reels. I've never broken the gears, so I want to know how to avoid it. Bought the reel cheap with broken gears :) Now it is the most expensive reel I've ever owned, so I'd like to preserve it and avoid abuse.
Quote from: Ryan Albertson on May 23, 2016, 05:42:20 PM
Hey everyone,
We now have the new gear sets in stock. Please see the search page here: https://www.mysticparts.com/Search.aspx?k=cnc+gear+set (https://www.mysticparts.com/Search.aspx?k=cnc+gear+set)
They are available for the base SSV reels, not the live liner and long cast reels. The smaller gears are an aluminum main and brass pinion set, and the bigger gears are both brass. The SSV5500 and SSV6500 are interchangeable, with the SSV5500 being made of aluminum, and the SSV6500 made of brass.
If you have any questions, please send me a PM.
Thanks Ryan, That is good info!
I just bought the upgrade gears for my 4500 and they will be here next week. I have yet to even use the reel as I just got it but being as im restricted to land for the next couple weeks, this gives me an opportunity to mess with my stuff. Anyhow, can someone explain the needs for the shims to me? Is every reel different or is there a certain way these are expected to be put in? Do I have to install the gear, put the reel back together, and check for play to know if it needs shimming?
Shimming improves the contact between the main and pinion gears in the spinning reels The shim goes on the wide end of the main gear, between gear and bearing. Some reels might not need a shim..others might need 1 or 2. You know there are too many when the reel starts to bind up.
Quote from: troutman561 on March 24, 2017, 01:20:59 AM
I just bought the upgrade gears for my 4500 and they will be here next week. I have yet to even use the reel as I just got it but being as im restricted to land for the next couple weeks, this gives me an opportunity to mess with my stuff. Anyhow, can someone explain the needs for the shims to me? Is every reel different or is there a certain way these are expected to be put in? Do I have to install the gear, put the reel back together, and check for play to know if it needs shimming?
Yes you do have to assemble the reel to check the play. It might sound like a pain but its easy with these reels.
After assembly the reel should turn and spin very easy. If it does them hold the reel tight and push and pull on the handle and see if there is any play in and out where the handle screws in. There is usually no play on Penn reels.
If there is play add another shim under the bearing. If the reel is to tight remove one.
Quote from: handi2 on March 24, 2017, 11:09:09 PM
Quote from: troutman561 on March 24, 2017, 01:20:59 AM
I just bought the upgrade gears for my 4500 and they will be here next week. I have yet to even use the reel as I just got it but being as im restricted to land for the next couple weeks, this gives me an opportunity to mess with my stuff. Anyhow, can someone explain the needs for the shims to me? Is every reel different or is there a certain way these are expected to be put in? Do I have to install the gear, put the reel back together, and check for play to know if it needs shimming?
Yes you do have to assemble the reel to check the play. It might sound like a pain but its easy with these reels.
After assembly the reel should turn and spin very easy. If it does them hold the reel tight and push and pull on the handle and see if there is any play in and out where the handle screws in. There is usually no play on Penn reels.
If there is play add another shim under the bearing. If the reel is to tight remove one.
Thanks. There is actually a bit of play in stock form. Perhaps this new gear will solve that as well.
You might need a shim or two on the handle side, Penn has those.
Sal
Put my new pinion and gear in tonight. Only took one shim. I didn't notice they had 2 on the gear already so I threw and extra one on and had to trial and error a couple of times but now its rock solid and the play it had in stock form was gone. Also fixed the drag seal as it was "cupped" and not tucked from the factory. The upgraded gear definitely looks more solid. Any idea what the difference is between the stock pinion and the updated one? They looked the same to me. Anyhow, they should just do this from the factory, if it's only a $50 difference that's not a break the bank situation. Plus their cost would be less I'm sure.
The following is only my opinion:
I have a feeling it all goes back to price and the fact that probably 80% of the end users don't need the upgraded gears.
Concerning price, adding the $50 gear puts that reel up into Clash price range and used Slammer III range. So, by adding the gears at the factory it may affect the market for the other products, even though the SSV and Clash have different benefits to each segment that it is meant for.
Value engineering is a blessing and a curse, it brings the price down to affordable but the product looses some of its 'robust-ness'. This basically leads into the step factor of available product...$45 dollar Pursuit II spinner all the way up to the $600+ Torque spinners. Value also means multiple things...value in the fact that the Pursuit is a cheap real that can last in freshwater scenarios for quite a while, whereas many find the Torque to be of high value due to its longevity in being able to last for decades in just about any environment. Cost analysis of 'hobby' sports is an interesting topic/dynamic and changes often.
Concerning my second point, if the original gears last for 3-5 years the end user usually buys a new reel anyway to replace the original. For example, my SSV 6500 gets used about a dozen times a year surf fishing and maybe 1-2 times on private boats fishing for Mahi and similar. I do not catch fish every time i got out (sad but true) so the gears aren't stressed as much as someone using that real every day pier fishing down in GA or FL. I would like to upgrade the gears though at some point, just for longevity.
Its neat that they came out with them as an aftermarket for people like us who plan on using the reel for 5, 10, 20 years.
I'll end my rambling there :D
Quote from: coastal_dan on March 28, 2017, 03:40:28 PM
The following is only my opinion:
I have a feeling it all goes back to price and the fact that probably 80% of the end users don't need the upgraded gears.
Concerning price, adding the $50 gear puts that reel up into Clash price range and used Slammer III range. So, by adding the gears at the factory it may affect the market for the other products, even though the SSV and Clash have different benefits to each segment that it is meant for.
Value engineering is a blessing and a curse, it brings the price down to affordable but the product looses some of its 'robust-ness'. This basically leads into the step factor of available product...$45 dollar Pursuit II spinner all the way up to the $600+ Torque spinners. Value also means multiple things...value in the fact that the Pursuit is a cheap real that can last in freshwater scenarios for quite a while, whereas many find the Torque to be of high value due to its longevity in being able to last for decades in just about any environment. Cost analysis of 'hobby' sports is an interesting topic/dynamic and changes often.
Concerning my second point, if the original gears last for 3-5 years the end user usually buys a new reel anyway to replace the original. For example, my SSV 6500 gets used about a dozen times a year surf fishing and maybe 1-2 times on private boats fishing for Mahi and similar. I do not catch fish every time i got out (sad but true) so the gears aren't stressed as much as someone using that real every day pier fishing down in GA or FL. I would like to upgrade the gears though at some point, just for longevity.
Its neat that they came out with them as an aftermarket for people like us who plan on using the reel for 5, 10, 20 years.
I'll end my rambling there :D
Good points!
And you are definitely right about most people not needing the updated gears. Heck, a friend of mine gets offshore quite often and his go to for bottom fishing is his SSV 3500. He got it right when it came out and he regularly catches AJ's up to 30lbs and had caught gags up to 35in on it. That is on top of kingfish and more mangrove snapper than you can count. He has not had the first hint of trouble with his stock set. I have no legit reason for upgrading my gears other than the fact that I like to keep my gear until it corrodes away. And, I got burned on the Saragosa 6000F gear issues (replaced it 3 times) so I am a bit gear shy these days. This reel took that ones place. I am looking forward to many years of service from it.