With the recent approval from my wife to make another trip to Alaska this year, I decided to replenish the canned salmon stock in the pantry. My inventory is down to 4 pints or just over a month's worth.
A baker's dozen fillets later and I have 21 pints fresh out of the two pressure canners. ;D
These got a short teriyaki soak once they were skinned and cut into chunks as I found the brining leaves them way too salty for my tastes. Hence the darker red than usual salmon color.
I sure do love salmon salad.
Yum :)
Thanks, Joe.
Back in NC before we moved out west we raised Nubian goats for our dairy - milk, butter ( yeah we made our own ) , yogurt.... Cornish Rock chickens, turkeys , Alaska salmon and katahdin sheep for our meat and eggs ....and had a 1/4 acre garden. We only had a single income household but ate like Kings.
Now we have a garden plus a few fruit trees and put up juice, preserves, veggies and source our meat from local ranches.
You're right about how good it tastes and is better for you than the commercial stuff. We miss our free range chicken eggs and organic meat. store bought Chicken does not taste like farm raised. Not even close. Same for the eggs.
really interesting Steve,
I know nothing about preserving canned food, can you please elaborate a bit (just an oversight) of the procedure to canned the salmon?
I might do the same for some local fish
I just normally fillet most of the fish I caught, cut it in small chunks and put them on vacuum sealed bags with the date and kind of fish and go to the freezer, own canned food have always brough my attention
Canning fish is fairly easy. Follow the directions exactly. The fish gets cooked and stores on the shelf for a year or more. Though you want to rotate your stock to the front of the line and Eat it, often.
You can take it on trips without a cooler or freezer. Enjoy your favorite fish when they long migrated away until next year. Share with friends ....i sent a jar to Sal not long back in trade for a lure. And I got a really nice Hawaiian feathered Marlin lure for my display case.
Here are two websites with the best canning info.
http://www.simplycanning.com/canning-fish.html
http://www.gopresto.com/recipes/canning/seafood.php
Tuna cans differently and is cooked first before canning.
You can add some jalapenos to spice up the fish as many folks do or add a spot of spicy mustard or other favorite sauce right before closing the lid.
Then...it's just a matter of opening a jar, drain the juice, add some mayo or whatever you like on yours, grab some torillas and go to town.
Today, I added fresh cut pineapple, horseradish sauce, Tabasco and avocado inside my tortilla filled with salmon salad.
The main thing is to follow the directions and watch the guage to keep the heat at the right psi for the correct amount of time.
I am the bearer of bad news when it comes to these things but given my job as a regulator in the food safety arena, it is what it is and I would rather make everyone sad than hear of someone death....
Canning isn't as easy as you think.
The main issue is the destruction of Clostridium botulinum (CBOT) spores when dealing with low acid foods such as fish and vegetables.
It is best to contact the food science department at a state run university that has a process authority on staff.
Many factors come into play when dealing with heating the product.
pH, water activity, density of the ingredients, size of the ingredients, headspace in the jar, pressure, temperature, length of time, come up time, cool down time, etc.
The integrity of the seal is a big issue that many overlook. Overtightening jars is actually bad as you can cut the seal which is critical for the safety of the food. Lid manufacturers have specifications of tightening that need to be followed as well and the seal integrity needs to be analyzed after each batch made.
A scheduled processes is what the scientific process is when dealing with canned food products. Deviating from the process such as cutting the food in chucks 1/4 inch larger that what was specified can result in an underprocessed product that can have viable CBOT spores remaining. Scheduled processes are designed to achieve a 12D (99.9999999999%) reduction of pathogens of public health significance. This includes spore destruction. If you get a scheduled process from a recognized process authority, you are in good shape. DO EXACTLY WHAT IT SAYS.
Grandma's old recipes might not have killed anyone that you know of and if you really like the recipe, give it to a process authority to review. It is worth the money.
Acidification is different that low acid canning in that you are killing vegetative cells of pathogens of public health significance and then controlling the growth (and toxin formation of CBOT) with a pH of 4.6 or less in the state of equilibrium throughout the product. For this you are heating the product, driving the acid through the product to lower the pH and then hot filling the jars to ensure a hermetic seal. Some will cook in the jars in the pressure cooker which can work. Again, get a scheduled process for this.
Simple things such as reducing sodium for those with sodium issues can reak havoc on the overall food safety of the product.
Those with scientific knowledge can debate this but it isn't worth the risk to take chances. If a company provides a process with the equipment that they sell, call and ask if the process was validated by a process authority and ask for the FDA registration of that process.
I know I am probably going to drive people nuts here but trust me and keep things safe. I have been part of more food borne illness investigations that anyone would care to image, including me.
I see both sides of the story here. I can say that I have never gotten bad home canned goods, but am never the less vigilant.
I was poisoned by Gorton's fish fillets when I was in my 20's. I have never been sicker, before or since. Carried to the hospital emergency room.
You cannot tell by sniffing so if the seal doesn't 'pop', give it to your pain in the arse neighbor. ::)
What will happen over time are the heat stable microorganisms can grow if the product is held in a warm kitchen or storage area. The sterilization really needs to take place in the pressure cooker but an extra cleaning is always good. You have 2 forms of cbot. Proteolytic and non Proteolytic. Non Proteolytic does not produce a gas when toxin is produced and you have no real indicator of formation.
Quote from: jigmaster501 on August 10, 2016, 03:49:06 PM
What will happen over time are the heat stable microorganisms can grow if the product is held in a warm kitchen or storage area. The sterilization really needs to take place in the pressure cooker but an extra cleaning is always good. You have 2 forms of cbot. Proteolytic and non Proteolytic. Non Proteolytic does not produce a gas when toxin is produced and you have no real indicator of formation.
this post remembered my wife talking, my wife is a Chemist with a degree on a Biology and just told me to forget about canning my fish (sorry guys). shes the one that when getting groceries on the market is always checking for the due-date, hits or bumps on the metal cans of tomato, etc, when opening a glass cans it has to pop-up or go to the trash, smell the food when taking it out the can, etc.. well I can blame it, she worked on a quality control department of two different food factories here in Mexico and also at Pepsi, shes really anal when it comes to food Q-control on the house
Quote from: Reel 224 on August 10, 2016, 06:25:59 PM
Quote from: steelfish on August 10, 2016, 04:33:36 PM
Quote from: jigmaster501 on August 10, 2016, 03:49:06 PM
What will happen over time are the heat stable microorganisms can grow if the product is held in a warm kitchen or storage area. The sterilization really needs to take place in the pressure cooker but an extra cleaning is always good. You have 2 forms of cbot. Proteolytic and non Proteolytic. Non Proteolytic does not produce a gas when toxin is produced and you have no real indicator of formation.
this post remembered my wife talking, my wife is a Chemist with a degree on a Biology and just told me to forget about canning my fish (sorry guys). shes the one that when getting groceries on the market is always checking for the due-date, hits or bumps on the metal cans of tomato, etc, when opening a glass cans it has to pop-up or go to the trash, smell the food when taking it out the can, etc.. well I can blame it, she worked on a quality control department of two different food factories here in Mexico and also at Pepsi, shes really anal when it comes to food Q-control on the house
I can understand you wife's concerns but as far as I am concerned we have not had one problem with canning our own food.
Joe
Im pretty sure of that Joe, dont get me wrong.
Im more into natural and practical things/solutionis while she is more into technical and scientific things/solutions.
not a boring marriage all these years if you ask me LOL
A surprising number of replies to a couple of pictures about me canning salmon.
I have been eating home canned produce my whole life and am still kicking.
This is my 3rd year canning fish. So far so good. I feel safer eating my own canned fish than I do driving on I-15 in Utah. ( country's second worst drivers )
The concerned opinions about home canning are very valid and appreciated being voiced here.
My lunch today was canned salmon salad spread with avocados, provolone, Cranberry Jalapeno dressing and a couple shakes of Tabasco.
Yummy-licious and no side effects yet........gACK!,,, :o,,Pfffttt.... ??? ..jujahbu :'( uuuuuughh.........(keels over while typing) .....CLUNK! hits floor ;D
Keep Clam and Can on. ;)
Been eating home canned food for nearly 70 years and glad that I lived that way. Home canned salmon is hard to beat. Love salmon just about anyway you can dream up to cook it.
Joe, I know you have a farm background too, so, I really believe that you and many guys here are doing the correct way on canning food with no chance of poisoning, ever... I was just trying to say that my wife dont feel too confident on trying ourselves this time, no background on anything related to grow and preserve our own food, sounds interesting, but not much you can do on miles and miles of dry desert.
with that say, I wont hesitate on getting canned food from you or from Steve and prepare a nice meal right away
Steve-O those make me miss my last care package from a friend.
Several jars of smoked, canned salmon with jalapenos. They were so frikkin good.
Jigmaster,
You're a canning killjoy. ;)
I know you're just cautioning people, thanks for caring, but you did the same spiel last year IIRC.
Like others we sometimes can and have never had a problem.
My FiL was the cannery manager for the LDS Tuna cannery in San Diego back in the tuna fishery days, and he was a plant manager for Monterey Mushrooms... He is a PITA to have around when home canning.
Quote from: Steve-O on August 10, 2016, 07:40:29 PM
A surprising number of replies to a couple of pictures about me canning salmon.
I have been eating home canned produce my whole life and am still kicking.
This is my 3rd year canning fish. So far so good. I feel safer eating my own canned fish than I do driving on I-15 in Utah. ( country's second worst drivers )
The concerned opinions about home canning are very valid and appreciated being voiced here.
My lunch today was canned salmon salad spread with avocados, provolone, Cranberry Jalapeno dressing and a couple shakes of Tabasco.
Yummy-licious and no side effects yet........gACK!,,, :o,,Pfffttt.... ??? ..jujahbu :'( uuuuuughh.........(keels over while typing) .....CLUNK! hits floor ;D
Keep Clam and Can on. ;)
;D ;D ;D ;D Dominick
Chile,
The problem with CBOT is that it is the most deadliest foodborne pathogen on Earth and home canning is the cause of over 90% of the deaths associated with it. People who recover from CBOT, the rare ones, usually take at least a year to recover without being able to move or speak but they can hear everything that goes on and feel all the pain as their nerve endings regenerate throughout the entire body. Being a regulator, I am fortunate/unfortunate enough to see videos of survivors, deal with illness investigations and see things that would make everyone here want to live off distilled water and crackers.
Some people have no problems with home canning and those who haven't had a problem should have their recipes analyzed by a process authority to determine what parameters they are using are working so those processes could be shared with others. In the realm of home canning, keeping secrets can kill those who don't know the secrets. Those here canning need to share scheduled processes (approved by a process authority) like we share info on reels. Even if we all had to pay to access a page on this site to offset the costs of the process authority reviews, it would greatly benefit all who are home canning.
When something goes wrong, it is usually a slight change in process or a substitution of an ingredient or just a different brand. Using salt from different companies can yield different weights of salt per volume just on how the salt crystals are formed. Just a bit too little salt can leave a process without adequate control. Same with vinegar, big difference between 4 and 5 percent acidity.
Listen to your Father In Law, seafood and mushrooms are difficult to can. Mushrooms dispersed in a can via machine versus mushroom dispersed in a can via the human hand can have different densities which affect the heat penetration. There was a CBOT outbreak just because of this problem. I am sure your father in law can share more on this topic with his vast experience in the industry.
I would like to see if I could find a process authority to get on this board, someone who fishes and like reels would be a plus, to see if we could ensure the safety of all here.
Quote from: ChileRelleno on August 13, 2016, 04:14:48 AM
Steve-O those make me miss my last care package from a friend.
Several jars of smoked, canned salmon with jalapenos. They were so frikkin good.
Jigmaster,
You're a canning killjoy. ;)
I know you're just cautioning people, thanks for caring, but you did the same spiel last year IIRC.
Like others we sometimes can and have never had a problem.
My FiL was the cannery manager for the LDS Tuna cannery in San Diego back in the tuna fishery days, and he was a plant manager for Monterey Mushrooms... He is a PITA to have around when home canning.
Chile I guess you are going to ignore both Jigmaster and your father-in-law. :'( It sounds like they are giving the same advice. Maybe you should listen to the advice. :-\ One time in a hundred is still one time too many when it affects your health. Dominick
At the moment ( early August ), most Italians are making tomatoes jars, myself included. I'm sure other parts of the world are doing the same. Kids get involved with the adults, it is very important to let them participate. We've been canning all our lives, I'm still here to talk about it.
Some of the problem here might be with the crap they add, to get their nice looking crop. All our stuff is grown naturally.
I'm not disagreeing with anyone here, just putting out my two cents. If we get deep into it we won't leave the house, well maybe that won't work as well, the roof might cave in :-\
I have never "canned" but if you had a bad seal or something that would spoil the product, wouldn't you be able to smell it when you opened the jar? Just curious.
Quote from: Dominick on August 13, 2016, 07:29:38 PM
Quote from: ChileRelleno on August 13, 2016, 04:14:48 AM
Steve-O those make me miss my last care package from a friend.
Several jars of smoked, canned salmon with jalapenos. They were so frikkin good.
Jigmaster,
You're a canning killjoy. ;)
I know you're just cautioning people, thanks for caring, but you did the same spiel last year IIRC.
Like others we sometimes can and have never had a problem.
My FiL was the cannery manager for the LDS Tuna cannery in San Diego back in the tuna fishery days, and he was a plant manager for Monterey Mushrooms... He is a PITA to have around when home canning.
Chile I guess you are going to ignore both Jigmaster and your father-in-law. :'( It sounds like they are giving the same advice. Maybe you should listen to the advice. :-\ One time in a hundred is still one time too many when it affects your health. Dominick
Danged straight we ignore the family Patriarch, even Mom ignores him, or shoves him out of the kitchen when canning.
You can only get lectured so many times before it simply goes in one ear and out the other.
Quote from: Dominick on August 13, 2016, 07:29:38 PM
Quote from: ChileRelleno on August 13, 2016, 04:14:48 AM
Steve-O those make me miss my last care package from a friend.
Several jars of smoked, canned salmon with jalapenos. They were so frikkin good.
Jigmaster,
You're a canning killjoy. ;)
I know you're just cautioning people, thanks for caring, but you did the same spiel last year IIRC.
Like others we sometimes can and have never had a problem.
My FiL was the cannery manager for the LDS Tuna cannery in San Diego back in the tuna fishery days, and he was a plant manager for Monterey Mushrooms... He is a PITA to have around when home canning.
Chile I guess you are going to ignore both Jigmaster and your father-in-law. :'( It sounds like they are giving the same advice. Maybe you should listen to the advice. :-\ One time in a hundred is still one time too many when it affects your health. Dominick
I agree Dominick!
Even a mild case of Botulism could cause one to take off ones shirt and run around SHIRTLESS ALL DAY ;D
Wayne
Like Curley says yuk yuk yuk. Dominick
This is the most important topic on this board and we should keep quiet about it.
Nothing else on this board other than a heart attack from fighting fish with high drags will kill someone faster than improperly home canned foods.
There are critical factors that provide safety. What are they??? How are they being met???? How far above the critical levels does your process go to ensure safety. This is what a scheduled process will provide so there is no guesswork. Take the procedures that are being done for generations and have them validated.....
These vital pieces of information need to be shared here.
Take a look at Sal and the canned tomatoes (don't get mad Sal..lol). Tomatoes are normally an acid food with a pH well below 4.6. When canned under normal canning procedures with a hot fill, you have a pretty safe product that will have an equilibrium pH of (4.7 or less) 4.7 is the critical limit in tomato based products as opposed to 4.6 in other (ACIDIFIED PRODUCTS) Natural, unnatural, etc, etc, mean nothing..
Substitute heirloom varieties or new breeds of tomatoes with pH levels that are much higher. Now what... a product that was normally safe for generations will now kill you and all of the no one ever got sick for 100 years will not help anyone. A grandmother making sauce with new store bought tomatoes ( you don't know the varieties) will not know this without using a pH meter on her sauce. For generations her family didn't need a pH meter but now you do..... See the point..... She passes out her sauce to family for the holidays and they all go home and eat it... BOOM.. You just wiped out an entire family.......
Keeping quiet and hoping for the best with home canned food will only kill someone on this board.... Then what.. It is too late then. FDA sets the limits on canned foods at levels that will protect all. Those limits worked since 1972 when the LACF (21 CFR 113) ACIDIFIED FOODS (21 CFR 114) regulations came out. Before that it was a free for all and the potato soup outbreak changed that....
Lets not even get on the home picked mushroom thing. That is just as bad.... A mushroom that is safe to eat in NY will not be safe to eat in say MI because of differences in soils, minerals, etc. Only locally trained mycologists can determine that.
I am not saying don't eat home canned foods. Find out what the critical factors are for the individual products being produced so you know what you need to achieve to produce safe products. Without knowing that, it is only guesswork.... We have the opportunity here to potentially share validated procedures to produce excellent home canned products just the same way everyone is providing knowledge to each other on reels....
We are all spending thousands of dollars on reels that we might use a few times per year but we can't invest money into validating procedures that many people here are using to make food that provide hundreds of meals throughout the year.....
I am not here to insult anyone or play down anyone's experience but we need to keep this dialogue going with validated science that will allow us to develop a canning knowledge base for all to benefit from and not potentially make deadly mistakes....
Just read a great cdc article on an outbreak from home canned potatoes made into potato salad and served at a church potluck dinner, 70 plus people diagnosed, one death and many severe treatments. This was in 2015.
Can't copy and paste on my iPad or I would have posted it, reading further it appears to me most cases as in this case were caused by improper canning and basic food prep, home canned potatoes prepared in a boiling bath, not a pressure cooker, then opened and never heated prior to making the salad.
I remember my grandmother telling me when I was helping her with canning how serious the process is, whe told of an uncle who loved to make sausages, right up till he and his brother both died from them. I paid attention I learned enough to follow the process as she taught me. Even if I had never read a book on home processing she had it dialled in. I still can my own goods but always in the back of my mind is following proven scientific established processes. So far so good and I hope to continue doing so.
Jigmaster may be a PITA by constantly reminding us but I am glad his voice is here for us and his experience speaks volumes. CBOT is a disease you never want to experience and it can be transmitted by simply tasting something, you don't have to eat a plateful, one bite is all it takes, blurred vision, shortness of breath, difficulty breathing, muscle weakness, paralysis, death. 48-72hrs after consuming contaminated food.
Keep posting your home canned goods Steve, it's awesome, I know you're following proven procedures as does everyone that I accept home canned foods from. Even though grandma always said never look a gift horse in the mouth I always ask when friends offer me home canned goods, how long you been canning?
Quote from: Reel 224 on August 14, 2016, 07:13:59 PM
Get a grip and read the books that are published about canning. If you are so paranoid about it don't can. You go on and on and don't say anything. Did you ever hear of Ball's Blue Book Guide to home canning? Guys like you have a lot to say about nothing. Do you trust the FDA? How are the statistics on the FDA inspected foods?
Don't make me laugh about a subject you know nothing about yet you espouse information that you can not substantiate. I wouldn't be answering this post normally but this crap has gone on long enough. Your are a fear monger!
Joe
Joe, we need to be fair here, Eugene is only trying to help. Yes I see it as you do, simply because I've been canning my all entire life and never had any issues.
His information is very important though, is it going to make me stop jarring tomatoes? no, I don't believe so. But, it is still good information and he's only trying to help.
I have friends that do some serious jarring, I don't do that many, but some do over 600 jars of tomatoes a year.
Let's all try to get along here, if you don't like what Eugene is putting out, simply don't listen and keep canning as you are. :)
Eugene, I'm not upset, why would I be, you're only trying to help?
Sal
You are reading it wrong Joe, i never said you're the bad guy, I actually agreed with you at the top of my comment.
Eugene is entitle to post his information as he likes, it is up to us if we want to follow or not, but we should not criticize him.
This goes for everything else that goes on on this site, it is fine to disagree, but we need to do it in a good way.
I personally have no issues with you or Eugene.
Sal
While I respect what Eugene has to offer with his expertise in the field, I agree with Joe, I have eaten canned products (not by me), sashimi, sushi and ceviches pretty much all of my life without problems. I try to take precautions but you cannot realistically have all of your raw or canned food tested by professionals. Common sense should prevail like all other aspects of life. Have I had a case of the chits? Sure but I cannot attribute it to a certain meal. I am also of the old school train of thought that it is good to build up antibodies to certain bacterias, even if you have to suffer a little in the beginning. How come the Mexicans don't get sick by drinking their water but we do? We are becoming a weak people and would not survive in the wild if we keep going the way we are.
Eugene is right. He's not just talking about a few hours of distress in the bath room. Some folks only get one opportunity to eat improperly-canned food. It's worth doing right, and if you're not going to spend the time doing it right don't give your canned foods away to others - if you want to put yourself at risk that's your business, but don't risk harm to others.
Joe, you have said there are no experts, only people who think they are. It would be nice if you practiced what you preached. I'm getting tired of your intolerance to others, myself included. We don't have to agree, but let's disagree politely.
Sid
We don't watch TV at our house so we're pretty much missing the Olympic Games.
Seems like a few more exciting rounds of the Canning Games have occurred here over the weekend.
Erring on the side of caution has been an idiom I've lived by for many years.
That said, I've had 3-4 near death drowning experiences, a near death bout with psittacosis ( and now that I've it can't catch it again, nor do I care to) several severe bouts with pneumonia, a few car accidents which could have easily been fatal, a lightning strike and close encounters with bears in Alaska....which by my reckoning puts me close to 7-8 of my 9 cat lives used up.
As far as home canning goes my Mom always did it correctly, my wife always has and my few times canning salmon have also been successful. I follow the rules, am safety minded, prepare everything carefully, use sanitized crack and chip free American Made canning jars, new seals and rings, etc. If a jar doesn't seal we take proper action. When in doubt we throw it out. Same for any store bought, factory canned in steel, foodstuffs.
Now as far as this thread goes, I appreciate everyone's input and especially what Sid just said "We don't have to agree, but let's disagree politely."
If the moderators feel anything is out of line, please nip it in the bud.
Steve
Joe,
no apology needed at all...as I stated...I appreciate all the input. Plus, I don't feel you hijacked the thread either.
anyone could have said "let's disagree politely" ...it just happened to be the post above mine by Sid.
i also think Eugene has very valuable input regarding the paramount importance of safety in canning foods. I even started second guessing my recent canning session after reading his input but still feel confident I did it right.
so it's all good
BTW- I use the Ball publication for canning and also these. The last one - hunting chef - has a discrepancy regarding headspace when packing the fish into the jars. He says leave 1/4 inch. Others mostly say leave 1 inch space. I subscribe to the latter so the lid doesn't get pushed off during the process and gets a good seal.
The first one covers it pretty well, IMO.
https://www.uaf.edu/files/ces/publications-db/catalog/hec/FNH-00128.pdf
https://www.gopresto.com/recipes/canning/seafood.php
http://www.simplycanning.com/canning-fish.html
https://huntingchef.com/2011/11/13/how-to-can-fish-in-a-pressure-cooker/
Here is an interesting piece of trivia. Jarden is a company that was a spin-off from Ball Canning Co. Jarden is the parent company of Penn Reels. So put that in you jar and can it. :D Dominick
Quote from: Dominick on August 16, 2016, 01:02:03 AM
Here is an interesting piece of trivia. Jarden is a company that was a spin-off from Ball Canning Co. Jarden is the parent company of Penn Reels. So put that in you jar and can it. :D Dominick
There you go again Dominick... offering conundrums and no solutions...
steve ;) ;) ;)
Dominick, are you implying it could be risky to eat Penn products? ::)
Quote from: mhc on August 16, 2016, 01:52:00 AM
Dominick, are you implying it could be risky to eat Penn products? ::)
Every fish I eat is a Penn Product... And I haven't died yet. ;D
I don't have time to fight and argue on this site.
No I am not a fear monger, I am just speaking the truth from years of experience dealing with many processors of many different types of food products.
I gave good advice and I will do it again. If you have a homemade process, have it validated by a RECOGNIZED PROCESS AUTHORITY. They have the scientific knowledge to determine if your process is an ACIDIFIED or LOW ACID CANNED FOOD PRODUCT.
They are 2 very different processes but can look the same in a regular Ball canning jar.
ACIDIFIED FOODS- product with an equilibrium pH of 4.6 or less (tomatoes 4.7 or less) and the product is cooked to kill vegetative cells of pathogenic and spoilage microorganism, equilibrate the pH ( to 4.6 or less....) and hot filled or pressure cooked to create a hermetic seal. An acid product is added as an ingredient to low acid products bringing the pH down..... 21 CFR 114
LOW ACID CANNED FOODS- a product with a pH ABOVE 4.6 and a water activity above .85. Product with a pH below .90 can be processed without pressure cooking if vegetative cells are heated, killed and hot filled with careful control of water activity using thickeners other ingredients that thicken the product and dropping water activity. For products with a water activity above .90 you will most likely need a pressure cooker or retort. For this you will need to destroy all vegetative cells and destroy CBOT spores...... 21 CFR 113
Water activity it the measure of available free water in the product that can support the growth of microorganisms.
A good water activity meter costs about $8000. Out of all of our budgets for home processing
A good ph Meter can be had for about $150.
A good thermometer is $50.
A good pressure cooker for home canning, SPEAK WITH A PROCESS AUTHORITY
Cost of process authority- a few hundred dollars, if that...... MUCH LESS than an emergency room visit or booking a funeral parlor.
A recognized process authority which can be found at land grant universities, colleges with food science departments, food safety labs, etc can determine if your product can be safely with the ingredient you have and can tell you which ingredients need to be adjusted for safety. In addition, they can outline ALL of the critical factors required for safe processing including but not limited to ( pressure, temperature, pH, water activity, salt content, size of food chunks put in jar, ingredient differences, density, length of cooking, headspace, criteria for visual seam inspection, tightness testing, vacuum testing, etc, etc) WITH LACF products, your target is a 12D lethality (99.9999999999% destruction of CBOT spores) to prevent toxin formation in relation to factors listed above. With a scheduled process for your product, you can get away with minimal equipment and still be SCIENTIFICALLY ASSURED that your product is produced safely.
ALSO, headspace size needs to be determined by a variety of factors and can differ by jar size, lid size, diameter of neck of jar, etc, etc..... not just a standard headspace.
As for the Ball guides, the processes in there are scheduled processes that have been registered with FDA and are safe to use ONLY IF THE PROCESS IS NOT DEVIATED FROM AT ALL. Any changes need to be reviewed by a process authority.
I am a Seafood Processing Subject Matter Expert, Seafood HACCP Instructor, Preventive Controls for Human Foods Instructor, Certified Fisheries Professional with AFS and a licensed 50 ton Captain. I have also gone through Better Process Control School which is specifically for ACIDIFIED AND LACF PRODUCTS. That will not make ANYONE a process authority on ACIDIFIED AND LACF PRODUCTS. When it comes to LACF and Acidified Foods scheduled processes, I tell everyone to speak with a recognized process authority for those products. They have testing labs, testing retorts, food labs at their disposal that can test for things unimaginable.
For those interested in knowing if what you are doing is actually safe or who want to start out knowing what they are doing is safe with clear cut instructions from a trained individual, please see above. If you plan on giving out canned foods to family and friends, PLEASE SEE ABOVE.
For those who wish to do as they wish, do as you wish.
I am not hear to insult anyone, crush anyone's family traditions, kill dreams, or spread needless fear... I just want to see everyone eat what they make many times. Not die after eating it once..... I have heard all the stories before and sent many products to labs to find that what was being made was not safe and was able to support the growth of pathogens....
Hope this clears things up about guidance for canning and my intentions for spreading food safety knowledge here...
Eugene
Well said Eugene. I got that from your first post. Dominick
Whew! I glad that's over with. Steve-O sorry this post devolved to a few rants. Back to your salmon. It sure looks good. Dominick
Dominick, Like I said ... it's all good.
I showed it to my 14 yr old daughter...she was VERY impressed at the view and post count compared with the other recipe threads " Wow, Dad! you're famous!" uuuhhh...yea, a regular legend in my own mind. ;D
My wife and I had a 15 minute conversation discussing this thread partly but more on the safe practices we do when canning. She felt good about it and said that's why we pray over our food. ;)
she also told me Our neighbor's wife is a Chemist and will not can and then the real scary scenario- her lady friend back in NC ..a longtime farmer, canner, housewife would do this :
Cook the veggies, relish, chow chow, pickles, whatever and spoon them into the jar, screw on a new lid and ring and flip it over on the counter. :o When my wife saw her actually do it - she freaked and called her on it. "we've always done it that way!" Yikes.
Yo Steve, if your canning is anything as the last I tested, send it over, I'll let you know if they're safe to be consumed. you should still have my address ;).
this thread generated a lot of discussion in my house as well. its all good and the fish makes it even better.
the only can Im working with right now is a NMEA2000 and although it wont poison me it may well kill me before its done!