well after few local guys have seen my rod repairs, now I have a bunch of rods from friends and normal customers than need some guides repaired, some of the are just one-guide broken and the rest are good, some need two guides but thats it.
I know the minimum quantity of epoxic that you need to mix is 3cc but I hate to waste too much epoxic when repairing just one guide, specially when the repair is done 3 in times.
I normally install the underwrap, then CP, later one thin coat of epoxic, then next day install the guide and overwraps, then CP, later make a light coat of finish to the overwrap, next day a apply the 2nd and final coat of epoxic to the overwrap, for the underwrap I think I just use an average of 1cc (maybe less) and maybe same amount for the overwrap 1 coat, on the 2nd coat im bit more generous on the epoxic but never use the 3cc when repairing one guide.
I dont care is the customer is paying for the epoxic I just hate to trow the unused part to the trash (maybe its just me but dont feel too good wasting good product)
so, for the guys that run a rod repair bussinnes how you do it this kind of small rapairs and dont waste too much epoxic?
I was thinking to try the one-part finish products as threadmaster one or Lumiseal for the light coat for the underwraps and 1coat on overwraps and only use 2-part epoxic for the final coat of the entire guide wrap, but not sure how it will react because using different products on the guide, threadmaster one is water based and lumiseal is urethane based, 2-part epoxic is whole different product.
PS: not that I think I will get tons of just one-guide repair jobs but it still bothers me for the next times I get this small rod jobs
Quote from: steelfish on December 06, 2016, 01:03:00 AM
so, for the guys that run a rod repair bussinnes how you do it this kind of small rapairs and dont waste too much epoxic?
Minimum of 3cc's is a good general guideline, but don't be afraid to experiment with different finishes, methods, etc.
Some finishes are more forgiving of being mixed in small amounts, right down to .50 cc's of each.
Using CP only when necessary, or as requested, helps speed up repairs.
Look into building a drum dryer, very useful when you have mutiple rods and limited space.
Quote from: cbar45 on December 06, 2016, 03:07:32 AM
Some finishes are more forgiving of being mixed in small amounts, right down to .50 cc's of each.
Using CP only when necessary, or as requested, helps speed up repairs.
Look into building a drum dryer, very useful when you have mutiple rods and limited space.
well I think I will experiment with 2cc next time I have to repair one guide
so, no love for the 1-part epoxic currently on the market?
I've never put epoxy on a fishing rod, but for boat projects you use proportionally more hardener for a smaller batch. The volume impacts the amount of heat retained and heat accelerates hardening.
-steve
For me it all boils down to what you are trying to accomplish.
There are products that will certainly do for a quick re-wrap--so long the angler isn't too concerned about aesthetics and/or longevity: UV-Cured, Threadmaster One, Permagloss, Nail Polish, etc.
My goal in most cases however, is to furnish a rod that you could never tell has been repaired.
Guide wraps must be durable, done by means both efficient and to a degree foolproof.
To that end your standard two-part rod finish works best; newer one-part finishes--aside from the urethanes--have a ways yet to be developed..imho
P.S.
I've come across a few who prefer nothing more than a temporary varnish over their wraps. For these anglers the ease of re-wrapping and flexibility in changing guide trains is a big plus.
You should be able to mix .5 cc of each as long as the ratio is 50-50 but there's less margin for error. If you have any extra you can use it to glue on grips or butt caps just nothing that requires a lot of strength. If you see yourself doing alot of small repair jobs get another dryer or 2, sounds like you're half way down the rabbit hole anyway. Don't know if you have a wrapping lathe but if you have one with a dryer you can use rubber bands from the rod in the dryer to one in the lathe for a 2nd dryer in a pinch. 3cc of each is almost enough to do an entire small rod. Sheridan
I regularly mix smaller batches for single guide repair.
I just count the drops for two part epoxy finish, often using as little as 5:5.
Provided the proportions are correct, you should not experience any issues.
~
Quote from: cbar45 on December 07, 2016, 07:28:54 AM
My goal in most cases however, is to furnish a rod that you could never tell has been repaired.
thats my main goal too.
well, I try to keep the reel (now rod) repair side bussines small, the idea is to only do it on free time, with no hurries at all and not short-cuts, so I can offer the same kind of job I would do for my personal reels and rods.
Im pretty anal on this kind of jobs, so, I will keep using 2-part expoxic and reduce the amount of epoxic finish used.
thanks guys,
Hey Alex, you are no doubt, and we have seen, doing a fantastic job, but there's no way I'd spend 4 days putting on four-5 different coats especially on a small guide. I use two coats of Flexicoat Lite over the whole wrap and call it done. you could alternatively use a sealer like permagloss which will seal against air bubbles and then apply a single coat of Flex Lite; will probably get it done.
thanks Jonh,
I actually havent spend 5 days to fix one guide, but I was asking since those are the steps on "the book" of rod building, but Im with you, too much hassle for one guide, even more when no special need for underwrap nowadays.
I have a bunch of broken freshwater rods that I got on a fleamarket few months ago, I bought them with the idea to experiment with my skills when thinking to fix my own rods and make some tests on them before doing anything on a good expensive rod, I actually could save some cheap rods from that buch, 1 flyfishing rod, 3 catfishing rods (glass), 3 UL for trouth and 2-3 of the $9 dlls rods from wallyworld, all of them only needed 1-2 guides and the tip, and some others were broken and non-usable but still good to test with them, by fixing all those rods I got the enough experience to jump to a more expensive ones.
I remember that I repaired those rods, following the next steps I saw somewhere else, as follow:
underwrap --> CP --> 2hrs later -- overwrap ---> FC lite, one generoues coat, then applied bit of heat with the torch and call it a day.
mostly dont needed the underwrap, so it was faster.
they ended up looking really good; now, on a more expensive and beautiful rod I might add a second light coat of FC next day, but only if thats needed to match the the rest of the guides finish, on factory rods they seem to have just one big coat of finish.
after checking the comments of the majority I think I will follow that same steps on my next small repairs.
I recently used Perma Gloss U-40 to coat the wraps on my NepTuna Project.....took 4 coats to get to this finish and took two days, probably could have done it in 1 full day if it was warmer......sorry for the picture quality, but Im waiting for a sunny day to show the finer details that are not apparent in these indoor pictures......Bill
(http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj632/Fubarciw/fishing%20equip/20161207_164956.jpg)
that look really good compadre.
I have seen some works like yours before here and at rodbuilding.org from guys using permagloss and lumiseal, that why I was asking.
since I already have a lot of scrap rods I might go with I bottle of any of those products and put some coats on a guide after the CP and see how it looks, worst scenario is that I still need to apply a light coat of FC next day, still not sure if the 2nd coat of FC finish would bond with 1st coat of urethane products as permagloss and lumiseal.
I think its the same deal with CPxtra which is urethane based too, I was looking for an excuse to order a CPxtra to try it and this could be the opportunity, and would be used as clear coat finish when painted a rod of course.
Quote from: steelfish on December 08, 2016, 02:18:04 AM
that look really good compadre.
I have seen some works like yours before here and at rodbuilding.org from guys using permagloss and lumiseal, that why I was asking.
since I already have a lot of scrap rods I might go with I bottle of any of those products and put some coats on a guide after the CP and see how it looks, worst scenario is that I still need to apply a light coat of FC next day, still not sure if the 2nd coat of FC finish would bond with 1st coat of urethane products as permagloss and lumiseal.
I think its the same deal with CPxtra which is urethane based too, I was looking for an excuse to order a CPxtra to try it and this could be the opportunity, and would be used as clear coat finish when painted a rod of course.
Alex, agree 100% with your points above; I'm not using two coats FCL on a yardsale bass rod but new saltwater build is gonna be right. I'm happy with the CPextra I got last week; I use automotive paint on Bryan's recco. Note that when wiping on with cloth rather than brushing you get a more even finish but may remove some paint so multiple coats may be necessary if you want a gloss rather than satin finish. also note, CP extra takes 24-48 hrs for full cure but I like it's durability.
J
Quote from: thorhammer on December 08, 2016, 12:43:26 PM
Alex, agree 100% with your points above; I'm not using two coats FCL on a yardsale bass rod but new saltwater build is gonna be right. I'm happy with the CPextra I got last week; I use automotive paint on Bryan's recco. Note that when wiping on with cloth rather than brushing you get a more even finish but may remove some paint so multiple coats may be necessary if you want a gloss rather than satin finish. also note, CP extra takes 24-48 hrs for full cure but I like it's durability.
J
thanks JOhn for steping here with your CPxtra experience.
I dont see as a problem to wait 48hrs between coats of that finish cuz I dont always have free time all nights (only time when I work on rod/reels), but tell me, how many coats of CPxtra are needed to have a peace of mind on the durability for hits/scratches on the finish? 2 or 3 or maybe 4?
when you say you apply the finish with clothe? any kind of clothe? I understand that with a clothe you put just a tiny and thin coat, cuz you are sweeping it are the same time you are puting it
Hey Alex, jury still out on how many coats but I can tell you I couldn't scratch paint with a fingernail on one coat.
Heh Alex can't find snake guide thread but you should receive them in next couple if days. I had a set of five.
J
when you say Snake thread are you refering to a "thread posted on the forum" or to a wraping thread for the snake guides?
is it different than regular thread?
btw, thanks a lot compadre, your are really one of a kind
The thread where you asked the question. Whatever wrapping you are using will work fine.
Quote from: thorhammer on December 13, 2016, 12:21:11 AM
The thread where you asked the question. Whatever wrapping you are using will work fine.
LOL, got it, no problema mi amigo
You got a lot of advise already and kinda have to figger out what you want to end up with........at least youv.e got some options..., ???
I have used threadmaster one quite a lot for a single guide repair......It is thin so it takes more coats......and that means more turning.... but it drys faster for me than the 2 part types.......so you can move along a little more if need be......there is no waste generally as you can add just a dab more if you misjudge or err on the conservative side..... PLUS it doesent dry up loke the 2 part like Hi Buiild......It wont last a year for me if opened......... You will find its a tool in your shop. like the cd player! ;)
thanks Gary
I will take you comment into consideration, I think I will get one and have it for friends that dont want their rod to be perfect
some local guys are using dacron line as thread and 5-min epoxic as finish, they just dont care as long its working
I've tried the Threadmaster one coat and am not too impressed with it. If put on too thick it will fog up. It will also fog up if there are too many coats. The permagloss is some nasty stuff but if used right it has great results. Stay away from the fumes! If you have an exhaust fan to vent outside then you are ahead of the game. I use 2 part and usually do my repair work while I have new work drying, but then I'm set up for 5 rods. If you are doing large work (rollers), be kind of careful putting a finish coat on the underwraps. When you put the rollers on top of a finished underwrap 7 times out of 10 they will squeak when flexed. You have to do the trial and error thing to see which really works out best for you. You find something that feels comfortable, stay with it.
Have Fun,
Dave
Quote from: Swami805 on December 07, 2016, 08:05:23 AM
....... sounds like you're half way down the rabbit hole anyway. Sheridan
hey compa Sheridan, this was dec 2016.
if you get ever tired of your current job, you can work as Fortuneteller, amigo!
3 years later and now Im on a deepest place down the rabbit hole.
just recently got "Santa N-Nut" with a early xmas gift of the wrapping lathe with a dryer, so now I will have two dryers and one power wrapper and one manual wrapper, still need 4 more hands and 6 more hours of the 24hrs of the day.
BTW, depending on the rod, the guide, etc I now use one coat of epoxy on one-guide repairs not 3 as before on light FW rods or ligth surf rods,
repairing guides are really a different case than my 1 post concern, for for boat rods depending on the guide to replace 2 coats are needed and few cases as trolling rods or HD bait rods 3 coats for a perfect epoxy job.
Quote from: exp2000 on December 07, 2016, 09:23:49 AM
I regularly mix smaller batches for single guide repair.
I just count the drops for two part epoxy finish, often using as little as 5:5.
Provided the proportions are correct, you should not experience any issues.
~
I use the drops method myself. Over time you learn how many drops you need for various sized guide wraps. I never mix large batches unless I'm doing multiple guides (like a full build) or something long/decorative like a label or butt wrap.
I read about counting drops in an old rod building book once and tried it for myself...never looked back, it works great! It is amazing how little epoxy you use when you only mix enough for the job!!!
I use Flex Coat Ultra V and Lite. I've heard some epoxy is more fussy than others.
I control the measures of the epoxy with a syringe (wondering where or how you guys count drops)
currently with bit more experience on my side, I use as small as 0.5ml (syringe marks) of epoxy when repairing one guide and so far no complaints.
I normally use Diamond II epoxy, I have still around 12oz on the bottle and want to try the new formula of Diamond II UV formula, its little bit thicker and with the UV added.
Quote from: steelfish on November 22, 2019, 12:24:41 AM
I control the measures of the epoxy with a syringe (wondering where or how you guys count drops)
I use these type of bottles and they will allow you to dispense one drop at a time.
got it
thanks
In the rabbit hole and looking up now Alex, I could see it coming,one of the many talents of the Swami.
The power wrapper will take a bit to get used to but soon you'll wonder how you got along without it
For small repairs, like 1 or 2 guides, we often 'save' these repairs until we have a number, so that using the normal 2 part resin is more economical.
However, our storage scheme for the 2 part rod finish is that we use 'pump action' bottles, which dispense just 1cc at a time, hence with just 1 shot of resin and hardener, we can do small repairs without wasting finishing resin. The only proviso that we apply to the bulk storage/dispense of our 2 part resin, is that we store the dispensers in a small cupboard, which keeps the bottles away from light when not in use - keeps the resin fresher for longer.
This way we maintain a single standard of quality of workmanship, whether it is a new custom rod, or a single repair to a 20 year old rod.
Cheers from sunny Africa
Quote from: Jeri on November 22, 2019, 06:19:04 AM
For small repairs, like 1 or 2 guides, we often 'save' these repairs until we have a number, so that using the normal 2 part resin is more economical.
However, our storage scheme for the 2 part rod finish is that we use 'pump action' bottles, which dispense just 1cc at a time, hence with just 1 shot of resin and hardener, we can do small repairs without wasting finishing resin. The only proviso that we apply to the bulk storage/dispense of our 2 part resin, is that we store the dispensers in a small cupboard, which keeps the bottles away from light when not in use - keeps the resin fresher for longer.
This way we maintain a single standard of quality of workmanship, whether it is a new custom rod, or a single repair to a 20 year old rod.
Cheers from sunny Africa
thats pretty intesting Jeri, a "pump action" bottles never heard about that before, I dont have have a proper worktable or workshop in my home so, the epoxy bottles are always stored deep inside of a cabinet so, they rarely get any sunlight or light at all, when I need I get the epoxy by syringes into the mixing plastic cups and leave the epoxy again on the cabinet, this surely helps to keep the hardener to be "yellowing" sooner.
I have some epoxy bottles where the hardener have became darker that the normal light yellow tone now is almost ambar/orange in color, read somewhere that all the qualities of the resin/epoxy should be still good but the only when you apply 2 or 3 coats on white thread you will see a light tone of yellow on the epoxy ruining your work, I only use that epoxy for small repairs only on rods with darker thread colors, for light colors of thread as light blue, pink, white, etc I use Diamond II (new batch of epoxy) as well as for when I do a complete rebuild.
Quote from: steelfish on November 22, 2019, 05:51:31 PM
I have some epoxy bottles where the hardener have became darker
I've seen that happen to hardener in metal cans that can't get any light. It doesn't happen to full cans though, only cans that have been opened and closed a lot and partially used. Makes me think it is caused by exposure to air.
These are the pumps we use.
https://shop.fiberglasshawaii.com/shop/resin-fillers-gel-coat/epoxy-resin/rts3plngpmp-system-3-plunger-pump-single (https://shop.fiberglasshawaii.com/shop/resin-fillers-gel-coat/epoxy-resin/rts3plngpmp-system-3-plunger-pump-single)
-steve