I'm in pigeon forge Tn at the NFLCC show. I picked up a really cool penn 14/0 on a Florida Fishing Tackle big game rod. I got into a discussion with the guy I bought it from and he was telling me about a penn 20/0 reel. I told him I never heard of anything like that. He introduced me to a man who used to work at the penn factory. Said he worked for a Mike Quinn in the repair dept. he told penn made some 20/0 senators using 16/0 side plates and making wider bars, reel seat and spool. Anyone here ever heard of anything like that?
Easy Mike! You know you're making crazy here. Boy it would have been great to come up with a picture of that bad boy.
Have you discussed it with Mr. D.?
.................Lou
I wish you wouldn't have told me that.
I don't think that's true, but I guess anything is possible with Penn. Some guy who was a land based sharker made a wide spool for his 16/0, so it may be that rumor still floating around. Type in Penn 20/0 in google and you'll see a bunch of stuff. That's my guess, ut one never knows.
Dom
He claims they were special order at the factory. He has a lot of interesting tales about working there. I can't remember the details but he also told me about a special anniversary edition of the 16/0, 9/0's with orange side plates and Mike Quinn's basement. I'll find out more. There are no pics though.
I spit my coffee out when reading this... ;D
Quote from: Shark Hunter on January 06, 2017, 08:07:53 PM
I wish you wouldn't have told me that.
I have heard some tales of the 20/0, But never seen a picture. The tales I've heard said that it was an inch wider than a 16/0.
Two inches wider than a 14/0.
I haven't totally given up on it, but I don't think it can hold a candle to the Terminator. ;)
Bigfoot uses a 20/0.
Anything is possible -- after all, there is a green sideplate 4/0 Senator in the Penn plant showcase, and Dom owns a red sideplated 9/0.
But there would need to be more to a larger Penn such as a 20/0 -- then just wider posts, stand and the spool.
In order to be capable, other upgrades and redesigns would be needed inside the sideplates, IMO.
Outside of seeing and having one of our members such as Mike, Ray, Daron, John, or Tommy actually have it on their bench -- for me it is like Sasquatch, the Loch Ness Serpent, or UFOs -- I want to believe, but am also realistic and skeptical -- until solid proof opens the door.
Many good machinists, including many on our site -- could do this to a reel -- but it would be aftermarket, not factory.
Just my opinions.
Best,
Fred
Here is my take on this.
I'm sure workers could have made some red plates for the 20/0 using scraps and could have also made the wider stand and posts.
It would be hard to believe is if the reel in question has larger gears and clutch assembly.
If everything in the reel in question is the same, except for the color of the plates and the wider body, yes I say it is possible that it does exists. But I need to see it ;D
Maybe Mike C will see this and weigh in. I spent about an hour talking to the guy after dinner. He has no pics of the 20/0. To him it was no big deal back then. They were just making another fishing reel for someone. He said penn would build special requests. He also said that at times employees were permitted to build reels for themselves and make them however they wanted. I guess they just paid for the parts. I believe in Bigfoot, UFOs but not the Loch Ness Monster.
http://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16421&hilit=20%2F0+penn+senator+20%2F0
ORCA forum on 20/0
http://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewtopic.php?t=6879
Has a doctored photo of a Headplate...20/0
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1390.0
Then there is the 32/0 .
Any size could have been made at Penn but if they were mass produced then they would be in the public's hands and not hidden away at Penn or at a Penn employee's .
One Penn reel that comes to mind is a very small narrow reel that Mike C showed that had a stand and spool smaller than anything else ever made. The word was it was made for winding teasers in while trolling for Bill fish .
Be careful guys. I read a lot of articles about the 20/0. Most articles talked about it being a fake that rears it's head every so often. The articles states the side plate is fabricated. One article talked from a worker at Penn that stated the reel never existed. Supposedly the seller will tell a story that reel was a very limited production for great white fishing and it was his grandfathers reel. Now articles talked about Mel Larsen custom made some 20/0 but the side plates didn't say 20/0. Mel Larsen is the guy that made the 32/0.
Very interesting topic; but, a Penn 20/0 is pure folklore.
The affiliation of Mike Quinn with this 20/0 would be very unlikely because he was the General Manager of the Parts Department and had nothing to do with the engineering Department.
But, I have to never say never in the annals of Penn History, every time I do, I get burnt. I will say that I have pictures of Mike Quinn's basement and there are no 20/0 Senators there. What is there would make us drool, but not the elusive 20/0..
I do not believe Penn would have gone this far. The need for a 20/0 is almost nonexistent. Penn was a very balanced and logical company. Their research and development was always living in a world of normal standards. Getting abstract was not a Penn thing.
And there you have it Mike. From the Authority Himself.
I think Ray put it Best. Bigfoot uses a 20/0. :D
I now do not Believe in either one.
Not that I ever believed in Bigfoot,
I am laying this one to rest.
I have a Everol 20/0 and I don't think it will ever be topped.
No Sarcasm, No Drama. Just the Facts. ;)
Shark Hunter Uses a 20/0.
Believe it!
I found the 20/0, sorry it took so long.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/20170114_081607.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/20170114_081607.jpg.html)
Sal
:o :o :o And it's a Lefty tooo, maybe a Righty.....well maybe ambidextrous....aaaaaa, wait is that Bigfoot I see in the reflection....shoot I need another cup of coffee....... :P Bill
:D :D
Very cool Sal. Ya can catch em 2 at a time with that baby! Get's em comin and goin! :D ;D
.........Lou
I think you run two lines to the same hook and then crank with both hands at the same time.
OMG Sal I about spit my coffee when I saw that. It looks like something designed and built to address a problem I can't imagine exists. However, I for one will not be surprised when one day, a 16/0 that was widened to a 20 for a special customer one day appears. Until then if someone ever approaches me about one I'm going to tell them SHOW ME.
Hahaha...I couldn't resist Mike. As you, I would not be surprised if one shows up...never say never.
I don't know about a penn 20/0 I did run across
A interesting penn a guy in South Africa wanted to
Sell I was looking for a 49 wide and as we were talking he
He told me his father has a large Penn I ask him if it
Was a 16/0 he said no it was bigger about 2 inches
Wider and the end plates we about an inch bigger
Wanted to know if I was interested because I was buying
Wide reels I said no I wouldn't have a use for something
That size I don't know if this is what you guys a talking about
Or some special order item from way back when
Just thought I would toss my 2 cents in that's all
Scott
Well Scott, nice story, but you already know what we say here, pics or it didn't happen :-\ ;D.
I never gave it much thought but if something like this happens again
I will ask for a photo
Scott
Hello Scott,
I wonder where you were in South Africa. There is some really interesting land based big game fishing on the Indian Ocean Side of South Africa. Great White sharks are caught off the Sea Walls of Port Elizabeth. I have some friends there that had fascinating stories to tell about the fishing there.
Funny thing about the Ex Pats in South Africa. Historically, they have had problems with their postal services. So they get very creative in making their own tackle. Maybe what the person was talking about was a Penn reel that had been modified. They modify many things in South Africa because they need to.
That could be like I said I never really gave it much
Thought I am going to go and look at all my notes
And see if I can find the contact info and get in
Touch and get some photos just to see what the guy was talking about
Scott
This thread keeps getting more interesting! ;)
I think it just really got interesting!
:D
:D :D...
Hey don't ask for photos go buy it. Dominick
Speaking of buying things I wanted to ask
What would a fare price be on a penn 10/0
I am looking at one to buy and wanted to
Make the guy an honest offer here are some
Pics of the reel I'm looking at
Thanx
Scott
Make sure that there are no missing parts because they are expensive on 10/0 & larger reels. Rod clamp missing, that's a $20-$25 item, front rod harness missing that's another $20+ dollars.
At least for me, I hate making offers -- would rather know the price the seller wants before hand.
Many sellers say something like:
"I do not know what it is worth, make me an offer".
Offer them $50 -- and magically and immediately -- they know exactly what they want for it.
But for me, this is uncomfortable, as well as not courteous to all parties involved.
Best,
Fred
Quote from: RowdyW on January 17, 2017, 07:29:44 PM
Make sure that there are no missing parts because they are expensive on 10/0 & larger reels. Rod clamp missing, that's a $20-$25 item, front rod harness missing that's another $20+ dollars.
X2..
When buying older senators, I check the drag stack (if in hand), missing external rod braces and clamp, and check condition of bearings, sleeve, clicker, and rings. I ad up cost of missing/replacement parts and subtract from tye faur market value of the used reel (you csn look at past sold listings on Ebay) to make them a fair offer. If I can't check the reel out on person, I assume it needs a new drag stack, and any obvious external stuff.
John
Guy are correct! you need to take in consideration what's missing. Personally, I would never be concerned on drag washers, that is maintenance and doesn't really come into play here, but I would be concerned on what shape the gears are in.
As I see that reel, a fair quote to me would be $150-$160. If it had braces and clamp I would go $170-$180
The overall condition has a lot to do with it, My two reels above would be around $320 a piece, very close to $700 combined. Those are as close as you're going to get to new.
I'm not a pro, I'm sure there are others here more knowlegeable than me.
Sal
I'd offer $25, but then I have the fortunate history of an incredible purchase price ::) ::). Bill
That reel is a Bushing model. It probably has a three piece spool. More of a collectors reel.
The non handle side looks fishy. There should be an adjustable bushing on that side.
It looks like the spool shaft has been modified.
A 10/0 spool is tough find.
Unless you want it for parts, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole!
It sure looks like bearings to me. The leftside bushing is way larger than that tiny bearing cup he's showing.The right side is definitely a bushing.
Sal
I would not be interested because I don't want another project. But if I did I would offer $100 tops. You are going to put another $75 -$100 in rod clamp, rod brace, replacement ring to get rid of the one with the ss number, shipping,etc. Save your money until you can buy a nice one in the $200-$250 range.
I just know something's not right with it.
You can run a bearing handle plate with a Bushing non handle plate, but it doesn't work the other way around.
Just the Bushing on the handle side is enough to scare me off. :o
Ted calls it "my self induced buying parameters".
I only roll with a ball bearing Senator and one piece spool.
I've seen them in action and I like to go with what works for me. ;)
These reels are like firearms, they are only going to go up in Value with reel heads like us around.
I have only been collecting a few years and the 10/0 is getting scarce at a good price.
Just two or three years ago, they could be had for around $150 tops in good shape.
Those days are gone now.
I pay close attention to the details when buying one. If something doesn't look right, I walk away.
You are correct about being cautious Daron and it's a good advice. Keep in mind for someone as us, you wouldn't loose that much if you did buy it at $150. You would get left side plate, gears,( there is a 99% chance those are steel),clutch assembly and you're already there.
By the way, I've been collecting 10/0's for over 10 years, during that time, I have never seen one in good shape go for $150, unless Ted was sending it to me.
Thanx guys I asked if he had the rod braces
And if the reel had been modified in any way
I will let you know Fred you were right offer 50.00
And they magically know what they want in this
Case 125.00 I'll wait to hear the answers then
Counter or accept
I'd say it was worth $125 just for the parts. But that is what it would be worth to me.
Ok this is what the guy said I see that it has a ball bearing on the left, non handle side, and a standard bearing on the right side. I enclosed pics. Ed
Ok so what do these pics and information
Tell us I'm a little lost as to what this means
Sorry guys a lack of knowledge on my part
Gunrunner, I believe you have all the answers you need. There have been talks here about a 3-piece spool getting warped when tightly loaded with mono, most prefer the 1-piece spool.
With that said, some collectors would only collect these reels with the 3-piece spool, from the 1/0 to the 16/0.
If you are going to fish this reel, as Daron as mentioned, walk away. If you are going to use it for parts, or put it on a shelf, I will stick to what I've said above and it is just my personal opinion, a little north or south from $150 is a fair price for that reel.
Rudy has mentioned there is about $120 worth of parts here, I will tell you when you purchase these reels from parts and put them together, it will usually cost you 50% to 75% more than what it would be when buying already assembled. You have more than $120 worth of parts here.
Again, to sum it up. If you're thinking of fishing this reel, walk away.
I need parts, but this one having two types of plates, I couldn't use it or I would grab it if you didn't want it.
Sal
Sounds like I should walk away one question
How hard would it be to put this reel back together
The right way with a proper end plate and
Bearing and all also what is the reason one can't fish
This reel I only because I have a 6/0 and a 9/0
With the bushings and 3 piece reel they seem
To work fine so far any way
QuoteSounds like I should walk away one question
How hard would it be to put this reel back together
The right way with a proper end plate and
Bearing and all also what is the reason one can't fish
This reel I only because I have a 6/0 and a 9/0
With the bushings and 3 piece reel they seem
To work fine so far any way
Interesting modification on this reel. I have never seen anyone mix a sleeve and bearing reel side plates like that. I find the spool shaft is a different length when the spool bearings are changed. In my opinion this reel is a pure parts reel and the spool might be modified, so the value of the spool is a moot value.
The reel is not worth bringing back to life to fish. IMHO, unless you have old used parts around your shop that will do the job, Then offer $75.00 for it. I am not a fan of a reel that has been thrown together with improper parts. I do not mind old parts that has lost their eye appeal; but, the wrong part is simply creating a Rube Goldberg product that will fit; but not really fit and work; but, not really work.
Three piece spools were OK; until they were blown up to the big game reels. The expansion and contraction of the wet and dry linen lines and the stressed and unstressed linen lines caused the side flanges to loosen on the 10/0 and up sizes. I feel that the three piece spool has a historical design. It was originally designed for small reels. That is probably where it should have always been used.
When Penn decided to move into big game reels in the late 1930, their design concept was simple, put the Penn Long Beach on steroids. It worked on all the size models until the 10/0 and larger reels. On the larger reels it worked; but, it did not work well. The large reels idled along with the three spool for about 15 years until the one piece spool proved to be about a thousand times better.
In todays world, for fishing purposes, I would use and old, corrected one piece spool before any three piece on a large model.
Funny how we used to scribe our social security number on guns and reels (like this one) and now we're supposed to go to great lengths to hide our social security number from everyone.
-steve
This is true again I thank you all for your knowledge
And appreciate your support and input in helping
Me not to make a rash descison that would
Most definitely upset the wife and placed me in the
Dog house looks like it's a wait and se game for
My next rebuild we will have to see what fate
Brings me
Thanx again guys
Scott
I agree all around but I'll add my .02 anyway ;)
I had seen that reel on the auction site, if you aren't planning on using and just shelfing it than $100 seems like a fair price, toss in $20 or so for shipping. But if you plan on using it there are others out there much cleaner and ready to fish that included the braces and rod clamps...but you'll need to pay for it, say in the $200 - $250 range. At that price point find your self a decent 12/0 which has more readily available parts and more line capacity.
I personally love the SS number scribed in the ring...shows a different time and comfort level with security and identity...a time when things were a bit simpler.
Yes back in one could almost say a more innocent
Time I remember as a kid we never locked the
House in fact not till I was in college did we
Have a lock for the front door it was a much
Different time then tag now that is for sure
I'm not looking for show case reels just decent
Ones that need some work that I can fish with
When I'm done like the 9/0 I just finished up the
Before pics
And these are the after pic of the old 9/0 with
No part numbers
And here is the 6/0 without numbers before
The 6/0 after pics
And then here are all 3 the Center one is the
First 9/0 I did for got the before pics
Looking and Laughing at this old thread that we all had a good time with, is about to become a reality.
Randy's 20/0 kits for the 14 and 16/0 Senator are going to have a full frame and 6" width spool.
Bigfoot lives! ;)
BIGFOOT. That's the name going on my reel.
I like it Mike. ;D
Nothing like lassoing a Unicorn, I mean a Bigfoot. ;)