I have a few new-to-me greenies. Going to get them ready for the grandkids to fish. I haven't found a comprehensive pictorial showing a full disassembly and return-to-service, so maybe this will help some other newbie...
(If someone can point me to a thread already on this site, please do so!)
Before I begin, I will say I've already run into a problem-can't get the main gear to push out. I've removed the cross wind assembly. It's soaking with some wd40. It spins fine, the AR works, on and off, so I'm at a loss. Do I hammer it out?
Quote from: cbamer on March 03, 2023, 12:57:42 AMI have a few new-to-me greenies. Going to get them ready for the grandkids to fish. I haven't found a comprehensive pictorial showing a full disassembly and return-to-service, so maybe this will help some other newbie...
(If someone can point me to a thread already on this site, please do so!)
Before I begin, I will say I've already run into a problem-can't get the main gear to push out. I've removed the cross wind assembly. It's soaking with some wd40. It spins fine, the AR works, on and off, so I'm at a loss. Do I hammer it out?
Yes, Carla —- just use a rubber hammer, wooden mallet, vinyl faced hammer, or a piece of hardwood as a punch —- with a regular decent sized hammer.
Support the frame as shown.
It will come right out.
Crank axle shaft attached to the main gear needs to be cleaned up then smoothed with "0000" steel wool.
Also, the brass sleeve that supports the crank axle also needs to be smooth & shiny inside. Just wrap some "0000" steel wool around a smaller drill bit —- and run the drill for a minute, or so —- when the frame starts to get warm —- you are done.
Rinse both pieces, dry, oil the shaft and reassemble after cleaning up everything else including the A/R dog and spring assembly.
Best, Fred
Carla,
The 712 is the same reel as the 710 except the only differences are that the 710 has a larger rotor and bail wire. The process is the same for both reels. Here's a 712 tutorial that should help. (https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=30564.0)
Thank you Fred, I'll give it a go in the morning. After I rig a good support system. The thought of taking a hammer to this reel makes me a bit queasy...🤣
And Tommy, thank-you for the clarification on the similarities between the 710 and 712. I saw that 712 thread, but didn't know that I could use it as a template. Now I'm actually looking forward to it, with that pictorial guidance. Thank you!
BTW, Carla, generally a "Z" tutorial will be the same as the Greenie version, i.e. 710 & 710Z, etc. Most parts are interchangeable so the processes are going to be practically the same.
Quote from: Midway Tommy on March 03, 2023, 04:26:11 PMBTW, Carla, generally a "Z" tutorial will be the same as the Greenie version, i.e. 710 & 710Z, etc. Most parts are interchangeable so the processes are going to be practically the same.
Thanks so much for clarifying that. I have so many models to learn about right now!
Carla
Ok, so I managed to remove the main gear, but I really had to pound on it, even after two days of soaking in penetrating oil. (and btw, this reel was loaded with sand...).
I've cleaned and polished both the gear shaft and the ... "tube" it fits through . Even with a good dousing of tsi321, I'm going to have to pound it back in. That doesn't seem right. The shaft has micro-scratches I can feel with my thumbnail. The gear teeth points also look a little swuared off to me...but what do I know? Do I need to replace it?
Also, the bearing still makes a grinding sound, even after cleaning. Will another soak, this time in carb or brake cleaner, make it any better, or do I need a new bearing?
Thanks again for any advice!
And just to illustrate, here's an example of the sand load...
Get yourself a set of hobby mini files. You can touch up the main gear teeth so they mesh well with the pinion gear. Here's a little tip. When you found that you needed to tap the main gear out you should have loosened the bearing cover plate so that the pinion would move as you tapped on the main gear shaft. I am assuming from the photos that you haven't removed the bearing and pinion gear. If not once you've removed both you can remove one shield of the bearing and thoroughly clean the inside of the bearing with lacquer thinner or acetone. Once clean and dry you can regrease it, add a little oil, too, and it will most likely work just fine. If not you may have to replace it. FYI, the bearing and pinion may be a little hard to remove. You may need to install a large fender washer and the rotor nut to have something to pry against when removing it. Also, you should not have to drive the main gear back in. If the tube and shaft are an extremely tight fit you need to do more burnishing of both. Ultra fine grit (400 or higher) wet/dry sandpaper will work on the main gear shaft. If it has grooves in it that means something caused them and it needs to be removed.
Hi Carla —-
You likely already have the bearing and worm pinion out since you cleaned them.
In rough sand and salt conditions like this reel has experienced, there are generally a few thing to be looked at.
Tommy has touched on some main ones. And you can jeweler file the gear teeth, use a fine wire wheel to clean it up afterwards —- and really burnish the crank sleeves.
But this will result in a little slop afterwards —- and I suspect there will still be issues when completed —- although the reel will still operate OK.
What most folks may not realize —- and is often overlooked —-
The quality vintage spinning reel manufacturers knew and took advantage of the relationships between the various types of materials in a given quality reel.
Aluminum, brass, bronze, steel, SS.
This machinist knowledge of various materials allowed smoother operating reels, longer lasting components, as well as allowing certain parts to wear faster than other more expensive parts.
As an example, your gear doesn't look too bad after you cleaned it up. It could use a little careful fine filing —- but that is about all, I would guess. The steel shaft will clean up OK.
What does cause the main gear shaft to be so tight when inserting is the fact that the sand and gritty crud got into the crank shaft area —- then scored the insides of the (2) brass crank axle sleeves. Folks don't always know that these are replaceable —- but they are. In other words, the strong steel crank axle scored the insides on the brass sleeves like a pepper grinder.
Also, generally a reel in this condition will have a trashed, worn, and noisy main bearing. Replacement is you best option here. Bearings are not repairable. Only heavily greasable and then live with the slop and howling noise. So replacement is a good option.
I would recommend replacing the main bearing, the (2) crank axle sleeves, and the main gear, along with the bearing cover if it is corroded or distorted.
Now, after proper lubrication —- the reel will be tight with no slop, and function as near new.
I think you can get by without doing these replacements —- but the reel will have some slop, howling, and continue to grind —- but it will catch fish.
I can send you the parts if you wish.
Best, Fred
Most of the time, if the fender washer doesn't work, I put the rotor nut back on the pinion gear, carefully tighten it in a vise, tap it out.
Hopefully you remembered to to remove the main gear shaft oil port screw prior to trying to remove main gear. Sometimes that screw is just long enough to catch on the shaft. Yours doesn't look like that is the case, though.
Here's where I was when I began to remove the main gear:
I didn't see an oil port screw, just this little rolling ball that doesn't protrude into the tube.
I removed the rotor cup and loosened the pinion bearing so it could jiggle up and down as I tried to remove the main gear. The pictures don't show it, but the grease was mixed with fine sand and formed a cementitious layer over everything. This little screw was just loose:
The cement made it more difficult but I was able to pull the pinion once I soaked it. And I grabbed a potholder for extra grip, but will remember the fender washer tip for the next time.
So everything is clean and I've done some initial burnishing. I also wrapped a drill with some 0000 wool to try and polish the main gear bushings.
Fred, I'm grateful you offer parts while you're snowed in and helping your neighbors dig out from snow-mageddon (that's what we call it here when we get dumped on beyond the system's capacity to handle it). I've taken apart 50 year old sailboat winches and my husband rebuilt our three cylinder yanmarr, so I know the havoc that results from removing too much metal. I'll gladly take those parts, as ling as you have some tips for how to press out the old bushings. I need some other parts, too (bail arm, dog wire, teflon rear drag washer, etc.) I have 2 other greenie reels to dig into, so I'm anticipating more speedbumps. Shall I Pm you with a list, and you can let me know what you have, the cost, how to pay etc?
Thank you everyone for your awesome willingness to help out this newbie!
Right, Carla —-
Just PM a list of what you need and I will send it off when we hit town in a day or two.
We are no longer snowed in —- power returned on Sunday —- the critters are very hungry. In addition to 60 or 70 Quail, numerous bird species, 13 Douglas Grey Squirrels, Raven pairs, and daytime Owls —- we had (2) Grey Foxes visit us last night, a Skunk, and a Coyote.
They are coming close to the house, which means they are desperate for food.
The 15 Deer in the herd, including (6) fawns born a year ago —- have disappeared. The fawns we're having a tough time struggling through 4-5' of fresh snow. Typically, when this type of weather and snow hits —- they move down the mountain.
Lots of rain predicted starting Thursday, warmer temps, and new snow level rising to 7000' to 8000'. There will be melting of snow and flooding down below us.
Best, Fred
Quote from: cbamer on March 07, 2023, 07:48:09 PMHere's where I was when I began to remove the main gear:
I didn't see an oil port screw, just this little rolling ball that doesn't protrude into the tube.
Thank you everyone for your awesome willingness to help out this newbie!
Yeah, shame on me! I just restoed about ten Penn spinners and then 3 or 4 ULs that had an oil port screw. I forgot about Penns having the detent ball rather than the screw. :-[ Sorry about that, but it is an issue if you ever run into a reel with an oil screw in the shaft.
Hey Tommy, no worries-you just accidentally gave me a heads up, for all the times going forward, to make sure I look for an oil port screw before I remove a handle. Good advice, especially for a newbie!
Can't get the bearing retainer off on this second 710. Any hints?
After soaking in Dawn for a couple hours, it still wouldn't go. So then I used the hair dryer on high, and when it was hot, wrapped a cloth across those two tiny cylinders, grabbed with pliers, and was able to pull it off. Scratched one of the little cylinders though 😣 - my protective rag slipped. Clumsy.
Hair dryer or low temp heat gun on the plate only to soften the old grease and then try to gently tap or turn it by the bail trip studs.
You could also add a large fender washer or metal cross piece/strap, screw on the rotor nut and tap on the back side of the washer or strap to pop it loose.