I was given a box of baitcasters by a wonderful ohana member (Keith) to play with, since I've never fished with anything other than spinners. After playing with them a bit dry, the one that seems to resonate with me most is the Abu 5000C (3 screw sideplates with serial# suggesting '74 vintage).
And maybe the problem is my questions are too basic and thats why I can't find a good answer, but that doesn't get me any closer to a plan of action.
I have no basis for comparison, what kind of fishing should I be using this for? Now I'm not a complete moron, I can gather its neither a crappie nor a tuna reel, but beyond that I cant figure out how to narrow it down further. Should i be using this in lakes for bass, nearshore for tarpon etc? I have no idea.
What size braid should I put on this thing?
What size lures should i plan on throwing with it?
How heavy duty of a rod should I pair it with?
The current newest thread in this subforum before this one posts is about an Abu 5000 and casting weight, and i got more info from that than i had from any previous source, but im still pretty far away from feeling "informed."
I hate outsourcing my research but I've been looking on and off for the past 2 weeks and haven't found any answers. Google searching is worthless these days unless what you're searching for aligns with what they're being paid to advertise, and nobody is paying them to advertise info about a 45 yr old reel.
I have fished for steelhead and coho with them in small rivers. Used 12 lb mono and was generally float fishing with jigs or yarn. Would also throw spinners and spoons 1/4 to 1/2 oz. Used on a lighter 8.5 foot casting rod. Anything you would want to cast for and catch with 10 or 12 lb mono would be the target (bass, smaller inshore species). Use a rod suitable for the line and lures. They do not have robust gears or high drag capability. Have fun. Just my experience.
Cheers:
Todd
One of the best reels ever made. As Todd said, I spool with 12 or 14 mono, or you could go with 30 braid and topshot. I'd suggest mono til you get the hang. LMB, snook, redfish, pompano, Spanish, flounder, trout, peacock bass....good on everything from 6' to 11' light surf rods. TONS of upgrade options to tinker with. Or send it to Bob :)
I only have about forty.
John
Hi Jason, I brought one from Alan a few years back, it did not look like the strongest reel when I received it, but I thought maybe I could try & catch a western Australian dhu fish with it, then place it into my display cabinet, I was thinking 4 to 6 kg fish, it had 40Kg braid on it. about 140 M,
Well I hooked a 15Kg shark, I was using a rod that I had broken the tip & one runner of off, & bodgeed it up to use.
the shark almost spooled it, three time, then I started to get some line back, By the time I brought it to the boat, my thumb was numb, with the original handle, anyway we managed to get it into the boat, so they are quite a strong little reel, & it is still working good as new, it has CF drag washers, & I place a larger handle on it,
so you should have fun with yours, cheers Don.
I always considered these to be very nice bass reels in the salt. I use them from 10 to 20 lb mono. They will cast 1/2 oz a mile and can drag a calico bass out of the kelp if you don't let them get wrapped. I also used them for peacock bass in Venezuela with 20 and 25 lb mono. I've pushed them in southern California and have landed white sea bass and yellowtail on them but don't recommend it at all. Keep your quarry under 12 lbs and you will be fine. These are great reels to hone your casting skills.
Mike
Fifty years ago they were popular in the Gulf for light tackle casting at flotsam for mahi mahi = dorado = dolphin fish. There is not enough drag and spool capacity to prevent being spooled by a large king mackerel or tarpon, but the gear train will withstand the pressure.
I put in Dawns ground flat metal washers and Carbontex drags. It has the 3 stack in this reel. The top metal washer is totally flat with a shim on top to add the height back to normal.
We use them here in the saltwater for Sea Trout and Redfish.
I have a buddy that has a 5500C3CT Mag Elite fully tricked for throwing Spanish metal into low orbit. Even a stock one with a little tuning will launch. I've seen cobia 25-30lbs caught off the pier that ate a Gotcha plug by accident. I wouldn't recco that as my go-to cobe, reel but it's a testament. And......you can always get parts....
You could get lots more braid on the 5000C if you used 16 strand braid, with a short top shot, I cut a groove in the thumb free spool leaver, so when you press it in, it locks itself into place, the it wont jump, out of free spool when your casting, cheers Don.
Great little reels, easy to work on, lots of parts available stock or mod, hard to go wrong. One reel that's stood the test of time.
I used to do shallow water rockfish tournaments out of San Simeon Ca. Bring an empty reel, everyone filled them up from a bulk spool of 12lb mono, jigs only, no bait. 5000 or 5500 was the reel of choice, Catch some crazy big ling cod and rockfish out of a very rocky snag filled bottom.
I still use a 5500 from time to time, about 30 years old and still works like a charm
Guys thank you so much, I feel like I am far better prepared. I'm looking forward to playing with this. And yeah I think I'm gonna load it up with mono first as I learn how to use the thing. I don't wanna waste the braid on some noob tangles.
I've become spoiled. I can't find a baitcaster rod that doesn't feel like garbage for under like $100. And I'm not gonna invest in something I may not end up using a lot. So I'm building my own for under $50 with all fuji hardware. I think i have a problem. I blame this site.
Also anyone got any links for currently available mods for this reel?
Where's Tincannery and Beach Bob when you need them? Modifying Ambassadeurs is a rabbit hole you may never climb out of.
Well at the age of 35 I can now finally say I have thrown a few casts on a baitcaster. In the street in front of my house like a weirdo. But I'm proud to say I only rat nested the first 3.
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on October 23, 2021, 03:11:02 AM
Also anyone got any links for currently available mods for this reel?
Carbontex drag, deep clean the spool bearings and lube with TSI 321, polish the brake ring, spool shaft ends, idler gear post, pawl, worm bushing, and insides of the line guide. Lube all of those (except the brake ring) with TSI. She will sing brother. Pay no attention to the YouTubers and their crazy free spool. Most of those people have spent quite a bit on bearings to do such a thing, when in reality you just need a little elbow grease. You'll get 80% to 90% the performance of bearings in every conceivable place with a Dremel and some blue jeweler's rouge. You can also take the lateral slop out of the handle by adding a shim on top of the driveshaft before you install the E-clip.
Here's my throw-together 4500, nothing exotic. Two factory spool bearings of unknown age, Carbontex drag, and all of the above mentioned friction points polished. This is with no brake blocks installed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ_ZSFF8row
Everyone is different but for regular plug casting, I fnd these balance for me best on two-hand 7 or 7'6 rods- I usually fish open water and prefer distance over surgical flips in trees. Using this with a zara super spook with the hooks off is a good way to educate your thumb get to smaler baits. These reels have good sized capacity so the larger spool makes it unwieldy throwing much below 3/8 with a wond in your face (see how Steve, OC1, does everything possible to get light and small to throw very light weights on a thumburner).
Bob, that's insane.
BTW, all, Bob was kind enough to take a call from me the other week for talking Abu's. A gentleman and scholar.
Quote from: thorhammer on October 23, 2021, 11:30:57 AM
Bob, that's insane.
BTW, all, Bob was kind enough to take a call from me the other week for talking Abu's. A gentleman and scholar.
Thanks brother! All of what I do to these will work just as well with any other reel that has a synchronized level wind, like the larger Calcuttas and Millionaires for instance.
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on October 23, 2021, 04:50:19 AM
Well at the age of 35 I can now finally say I have thrown a few casts on a baitcaster. In the street in front of my house like a weirdo. But I'm proud to say I only rat nested the first 3.
At 35 Rat Nesting is a Proper Term but at my age it's called a Professional Over Run . ;D
The more friction you can mitigate, the better. This is the spool from a 6500CI I did last year, factory spool bearings ultrasonically cleaned in acetone, and a drop of TSI. Now, about that drop. I apply TSI from a 22awg needle dropper, it's precise and a little of it goes a long way. The bearings will be noisy at first, but once the TSI works in they quiet right down. The customer is the original owner of this reel by the way, and never been gone through to my knowledge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l879EOVix_U
I am AMAZED at the TS1 oils .
It REELY is GUTE !
I think I'm gonna run 10# mono til I get a better feel for what I'm doing, and switch to 20# braid as the final condition.
I'm building a rod for it out of a 6'6" 8-17# daiwa triforce rod. It has a good action and the lower cork grip it came with matches the fuji trigger reel seat still on clearance @ mudhole perfectly. The irony of starting to build a baitcaster rod BEFORE fishing on one my first time isn't lost on me.
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on October 24, 2021, 04:14:21 AM
I think I'm gonna run 10# mono til I get a better feel for what I'm doing, and switch to 20# braid as the final condition.
I'm building a rod for it out of a 6'6" 8-17# daiwa triforce rod. It has a good action and the lower cork grip it came with matches the fuji trigger reel seat still on clearance @ mudhole perfectly. The irony of starting to build a baitcaster rod BEFORE fishing on one my first time isn't lost on me.
20lb will be too thin for such a large spool. Keep in mind that stuff is a similar diameter to 6lb mono. 50lb would be much better, as it's a similar diameter to 12lb. The issue with 20lb will be if you get a backlash that works its way deep into the spool. You're going to be yelling out some choice words as you sit there cutting line lol. 40lb braid and up will be plenty good.
Quote from: tincanary on October 24, 2021, 12:42:11 PM
20lb will be too thin for such a large spool. Keep in mind that stuff is a similar diameter to 6lb mono. 50lb would be much better, as it's a similar diameter to 12lb. The issue with 20lb will be if you get a backlash that works its way deep into the spool. You're going to be yelling out some choice words as you sit there cutting line lol. 40lb braid and up will be plenty good.
If that's true this might not be the ideal reel for how I had intended to use it. I was initially thinking 10# braid. 40# braid for bass and inshore? I'm running that on my heavier surf rigs.
This is of course not a problem with a reel but my intended application. How does spool diameter play a role in what line to use? Not saying you're wrong I'm just trying to understand how all this works.
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on October 24, 2021, 01:39:38 PM
Quote from: tincanary on October 24, 2021, 12:42:11 PM
20lb will be too thin for such a large spool. Keep in mind that stuff is a similar diameter to 6lb mono. 50lb would be much better, as it's a similar diameter to 12lb. The issue with 20lb will be if you get a backlash that works its way deep into the spool. You're going to be yelling out some choice words as you sit there cutting line lol. 40lb braid and up will be plenty good.
If that's true this might not be the ideal reel for how I had intended to use it. I was initially thinking 10# braid. 40# braid for bass and inshore? I'm running that on my heavier surf rigs.
Tincanary is right...20lb. braid will be a headache on that reel...just too thin. Select your braid by diameter rather than breaking strength. And don't worry about it being 50-60lb strength rating. It can't hurt your 5000c. Stock drag maxes before it gets to 10 pounds...she'll slip long before stressing the gears. The only problem is breaking off a snag...carry a piece of PVC pipe to do that. 8)
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on October 24, 2021, 01:39:38 PM
Quote from: tincanary on October 24, 2021, 12:42:11 PM
20lb will be too thin for such a large spool. Keep in mind that stuff is a similar diameter to 6lb mono. 50lb would be much better, as it's a similar diameter to 12lb. The issue with 20lb will be if you get a backlash that works its way deep into the spool. You're going to be yelling out some choice words as you sit there cutting line lol. 40lb braid and up will be plenty good.
If that's true this might not be the ideal reel for how I had intended to use it. I was initially thinking 10# braid. 40# braid for bass and inshore? I'm running that on my heavier surf rigs.
This is of course not a problem with a reel but my intended application. How does spool diameter play a role in what line to use? Not saying you're wrong I'm just trying to understand how all this works.
Your best bet is to try and find a spool arbor, like this one https://www.ebay.com/itm/154569834989?nma=true&si=v5%252FAswpy66ZLOuzaPxBELwMf6X0%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/154569834989?nma=true&si=v5%252FAswpy66ZLOuzaPxBELwMf6X0%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557). It's a plastic arbor that fits around the arbor of the spool, taking up space in order to run thinner lines. The only other option is the Avail Micro Cast spool, which is much more expensive at $125-ish. If this were a newer ultracast variant, you'd have a much cheaper option in the AMO spool shown here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001734357317.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.4.28aa613broV4OQ (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001734357317.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.4.28aa613broV4OQ)
Fishing freshwater here in the midwest I have 40 and 50 lb. braid with mono backing on my Ambassadeurs and while that may seem like overkill it matches up well with a mono or fluoro leader of 10-15 lb. test, usually 10-12 ft. or a steel leader for pike. That size braid will also be a plus in heavy cover and be easier to manage. Set up that way I have cast 1 oz. spoons and switched to a wacky rig with a 5 in. senko with only some spool tension adjustment. I use 6.5-7 ft mh rods but that's what fits me. They are very adaptable and forgiving, be prepared, it's hard to stop with one of them.
Quote from: tincanary on October 24, 2021, 03:26:14 PM
Your best bet is to try and find a spool arbor, like this one https://www.ebay.com/itm/154569834989?nma=true&si=v5%252FAswpy66ZLOuzaPxBELwMf6X0%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/154569834989?nma=true&si=v5%252FAswpy66ZLOuzaPxBELwMf6X0%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557). It's a plastic arbor that fits around the arbor of the spool, taking up space in order to run thinner lines.
you mean one of these? Keith is just full of surprises, this was already installed. So does this mean I can run lighter line?
Those plastic arbors reduced the spool weight which could improve casting.
Thinking to myself last night man I'm starting to get the hang of this. 5 min later:
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on October 26, 2021, 10:57:44 AM
Thinking to myself last night man I'm starting to get the hang of this. 5 min later:
It's part of the learning process. It still happens to me from time to time, and I've been fishing them 30 years lol
Do modern baitcasters have the same aversion to thin braid, or is that a side effect of using reels that predate braid?
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on October 22, 2021, 03:54:53 PM
I was given a box of baitcasters by a wonderful ohana member (Keith)
Keith is a Bad Boy, he should be laughing hard seeing how he just sent you straight to another rabbit hole, I hope you have big pockets because Abu ambassadeur reels tend to multiply like rabbits and tinkering them could be as /more expensive than mod a jigmaster/113h reel.
Geez Keith, shame on you ;D ;D ;D ;)
with that said, Abu Garcia is the only brand I can considering myself a Fanboy, I have some ambassadeur 5500c, 6500c3, 6000c, 7000c, Record 60, Toro beast 60, Abu Revo Sx, Abu Ultra Max XL and an Abu Cardinal Spinning reel, non of my ambassadeur reels have big upgrades other than carbontex drags and power handles, all of them are used on saltwater (what else) without problems .
I love to use my record 60 and abu 6500c3 for inshore fishing but I normally use them for shore fishing, both reels are paired with 9ft fenwick HMX rods 10-30lb 1-3oz (with 1.5ft extended reargrip to make it 10.5ft), with 50# braid line and top leaders of 20# mono
welcome to the addiction
I sent him some nice low profile reels too. They all have Carbontex drags and ceramic hybrid bearings.
They have magnetic cast control. I think he would have better luck learning to cast these reels.
Keith
So this is drifting beyond reel-specific questions, but if spinners have solved the line digging problem decades ago via cross wrapping (done best via worm oscillation), why hasn't this been solved on baitcasters... With the same technique? I feel like if it seems so blindingly obvious, there's gotta be something really basic I'm missing, and I assume that's the case.
Quote from: handi2 on October 26, 2021, 06:59:17 PM
I sent him some nice low profile reels too. They all have Carbontex drags and ceramic hybrid bearings.
They have magnetic cast control. I think he would have better luck learning to cast these reels.
Keith
I know you are a great guy and a Gentleman Keith, thanks for your help
lowprofiles are great reels too but round abu reels have something to make them a thing of love or hate.
@ Jason, if you put your line with some tension maybe 5# or so, you wont have any problem with line digging into self on a nice fish, abu round reels are just too big to try those 15# or 20# braid on them, you will fill them with 1000yds of that, its just not a finesse reel, I have some lowprofiles 100 and 200 size reels with 20# braid on them and love them for light shore fishing on the beach and never had a problem with the line digging on itself.
if you want to feel secure on your line not digging into itselft you can always install half of the line on the spool manually on a x-pattern and then fill the rest with the reel levelwind system but spooling the line on a lowprofile from the line coming from another reel on which you can tell the line is pulled from at least 5# (measured with a drag scale) is the best way to avoid that problem.
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on October 26, 2021, 07:37:36 PM
So this is drifting beyond reel-specific questions, but if spinners have solved the line digging problem decades ago via cross wrapping (done best via worm oscillation), why hasn't this been solved on baitcasters... With the same technique? I feel like if it seems so blindingly obvious, there's gotta be something really basic I'm missing, and I assume that's the case.
They have. Levelwinds wrap with a cross wrap. It is a pain to rip/pause/wind a big popper on a conventional without a levelwind. Much more likely to get a backlash on the next cast. It is tricky and more work to manage a wide crosswrap when hand packing a conventional without a levelwind, so we tend to just lay one coil closer to the last. Works fine too, if the line is tight the whole time.
There is one problem that a revolving spool (conventional) still has though. If the line does manage to dig in a bit, the spool will rapidly decelerate and then accelerate in the middle of a cast, making a backlash more likely. Doesn't happen often with a decent levelwind.
-J.
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on October 26, 2021, 02:59:12 PM
Do modern baitcasters have the same aversion to thin braid, or is that a side effect of using reels that predate braid?
They do to an extent. It isn't much that the reels aren't capable, it's that the spools tend to be too deep for thin line in general. I run 8lb Berkley x9 on one of my finesse reels and it's of a similar diameter to 2lb mono. Granted, I'm only running 50yd on the spool, but backlashes are super easy to remove. I can strip the spool, wind it back in, and fish if need be. Been there done that lol. While it isn't a lot of line, it's plenty for the creeks I fish in.
After a rough start with braid, low-pro reels were advertising themselves as "braid friendly". From what I could see, that meant a rubber sleeve on the arbor to prevent slipage and a shallower spool.
I'm not gonna lie, I've lost a bit of the excitement that I started with, now that I've played with them a bit. That's partially because the learning process hasnt gone as smooth as I'd hoped, but also because some of my initial assumptions were just wrong. I'm not throwing in the towel by any means, but I'm not gonna expect that I'll be full on team sideways spool by this weekend.
My lazy side is wondering what's the point of learning something new that's kinda tricky when spinning reels are much more user friendly, and even experienced folks still backlash hard sometimes. But I'm inclined to believe it's like a manual transmission, which i learned to drove AFTER automatic (I grew up in a different era, we've established this). Yeah when I was learning it seemed like just extra steps with room for error, but as I got more experience the extra steps are just muscle memory and what's left is far more precise control over my cars behavior, and also possessing a skill that lets me jump into any Porsche on the lot and drive away (getting past the gate is a different story) which an automatic only driver can't say. The analogy to fishing reels is pretty clear.
The irony is that the fastest clutch runners in the world can't shift faster than a modern performance automatic tranny, and many modern supercars don't even have a clutch as an option anymore (Ferrari Lamborghini etc don't get me started on teslas), where 30 years ago there was no comparison. But I still stubbornly clutch onto my clutch because that's what I'm comfortable and familiar with, even if I initially learned on something easier. The analogy to fishing reels hasnt quite caught up yet there, but...
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on October 27, 2021, 12:20:31 PM
My lazy side is wondering what's the point of learning something new that's kinda tricky when spinning reels are much more user friendly, and even experienced folks still backlash hard sometimes. But I'm inclined to believe it's like a manual transmission.............
Its a learning process, I had the same questioning but see it as something to learn about fishing and to have another tool to fish, baitcaster, low profiles reels have their place and moment, they are fun to use (just like a standard transmission car), they make the fishing time more enjoyable (this is subjective to each person) and supposedly you can aim the lure and put it on the exact spot you want to cast it 3x better than with a spinning reel, but in a windy day you're done with your baitcasting reel !! ;D ;D
thats when your spinning reel comes to play
there are other big differences between spinning reels and casting reels in different scenarios but that belong to a diff thread, for light shore fishing or freshwater fishing is nice to know how to use both styles and have both gears on hand.
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on October 27, 2021, 12:20:31 PM
I'm not gonna lie, I've lost a bit of the excitement that I started with, now that I've played with them a bit. That's partially because the learning process hasnt gone as smooth as I'd hoped, but also because some of my initial assumptions were just wrong. I'm not throwing in the towel by any means, but I'm not gonna expect that I'll be full on team sideways spool by this weekend.
My lazy side is wondering what's the point of learning something new that's kinda tricky when spinning reels are much more user friendly, and even experienced folks still backlash hard sometimes. But I'm inclined to believe it's like a manual transmission, which i learned to drove AFTER automatic (I grew up in a different era, we've established this). Yeah when I was learning it seemed like just extra steps with room for error, but as I got more experience the extra steps are just muscle memory and what's left is far more precise control over my cars behavior, and also possessing a skill that lets me jump into any Porsche on the lot and drive away (getting past the gate is a different story) which an automatic only driver can't say. The analogy to fishing reels is pretty clear.
The irony is that the fastest clutch runners in the world can't shift faster than a modern performance automatic tranny, and many modern supercars don't even have a clutch as an option anymore (Ferrari Lamborghini etc don't get me started on teslas), where 30 years ago there was no comparison. But I still stubbornly clutch onto my clutch because that's what I'm comfortable and familiar with, even if I initially learned on something easier. The analogy to fishing reels hasnt quite caught up yet there, but...
That's why I don't use them..!
Once you get the hang of it its no big deal. I had only ever used them for drift fishing for salmon/ steelhead or casting spoons but once you can fish with one it transfers to other fisheries. I had no issues casting irons or live bait for fly lining, the first time, with other larger reels because of the thumb memory of casting the abu. Keep at it and as suggested learn with mon on the 5000C either 12 or 14 lb.
Cheers:
Todd
There is a reason people used to call spinners "coffee grinders". But, you will never understand until you are proficient with both conventional reels and old hand cranked coffee grinders.
Quote from: oc1 on October 27, 2021, 08:51:21 PM
There is a reason people used to call spinners "coffee grinders". But, you will never understand until you are proficient with both conventional reels and old hand cranked coffee grinders.
And Eggbeaters, and training wheels :) :) :)
It is worth it to get familiar with both to make an informed decision. OTOH, a spinner is not that bad for shore casting to smaller inshore species.
-J
Quote from: jurelometer on October 27, 2021, 10:33:00 PM
[....... a spinner is not that bad for shore casting to smaller inshore species.
-J
people wanted to take baitcasting fishing into the next step of UL fishing, there is a "new" wave of casting UL lures with Baitcasting called BFS (bait finesse system) using baitcasting reels with special shallow, drilled out/ultralight, spools and light-action rods to throw lures weighing less than approximately 5-7g (3/16 oz to ¼ oz and below).
just to make fishing more entertaining, the goal is to cast lures with UL rods, sometimes using light fly blanks with baitcasting reels, catching a fish is just the cherry on the cake.
but to get into that you have to know how to cast lures with a casting reel without problem, then you can go down to cast light lures with small lowprofile reels or small old school reels (right Steve?) and just then, you can check to get into BFS.
I like to use small spinning reel from light shore fishing, but becomes boring when fish are not present, casting light lures with a small lowprofile reel make the day a bit less boring when there is not "catching" just "fishing".
Quote from: steelfish on October 27, 2021, 11:30:25 PM
people wanted to take baitcasting fishing into the next step of UL fishing, there is a "new" wave of casting UL lures with Baitcasting called BFS (bait finesse system) using baitcasting reels with special shallow, drilled out/ultralight, spools and light-action rods to throw lures weighing less than approximately 5-7g (3/16 oz to ¼ oz and below).
just to make fishing more entertaining, the goal is to cast lures with UL rods, sometimes using light fly blanks with baitcasting reels, catching a fish is just the cherry on the cake.
but to get into that you have to know how to cast lures with a casting reel without problem, then you can go down to cast light lures with small lowprofile reels or small old school reels (right Steve?) and just then, you can check to get into BFS.
I like to use small spinning reel from light shore fishing, but becomes boring when fish are not present, casting light lures with a small lowprofile reel make the day a bit less boring when there is not "catching" just "fishing".
I have some BFS reels, lots of fun to use. Most of what I'm throwing is between 1/16 and 3/16, and these are brush choked trout streams I normally fish in. In that capacity, they're the perfect tool. You can fish in places a fly fisherman would have a lot of trouble and have much better accuracy than a spinning outfit.
This is my favorite combo, 4'10" Major Craft Finetail Stream Glass and a Shimano Calcutta Conquest BFS. It has been places where the skeeters look like pterodactyls.
(https://i.imgur.com/RfenmMQh.jpg)
So, coming from an actual user of BFS , why did you choose BFS over small 500 spinning reels?
I'm shocked Bob! A tricked-out 5000 should be able to do what the Calcutta does. Yeah? That sure is a nice looking reel and switch though.
Alex, what's the difference in BFS and normal ultralight fishing? I better get with the program.
Quote from: steelfish on October 28, 2021, 05:04:23 AM
So, coming from an actual user of BFS , why did you choose BFS over small 500 spinning reels?
3 reasons; accuracy, the ability to cast in very confined quarters, and a stout drag. Most of those 500 size spinners aren't going to handle a 20"+ wild brown or rainbow, but it is plenty enough for smaller 12" and under brook trout. These BFS reels have drags like those of their larger siblings. The drag in this Calcutta is like that of the larger 100 size. I typically run 8lb or 10lb braided line and top it off with a 6lb mono leader or even 8lb if the stream conditions warrant it. The streams where I am are loaded with all kinds of gremlins like logjams, root wads, and sharp rocks. 2lb or 4lb mono like many often run typically results in lures lost to the stream or fish breaking you off in the wood.
Quote from: oc1 on October 28, 2021, 06:22:59 AM
I'm shocked Bob! A tricked-out 5000 should be able to do what the Calcutta does. Yeah? That sure is a nice looking reel and switch though.
Alex, what's the difference in BFS and normal ultralight fishing? I better get with the program.
A tricked out 5000 has to contend with spool weight. These BFS (bait finesse system) reels have very light spools. Your typical 5000 will have a spool that weighs somewhere between 20g and 30g depending on model, while these BFS reels have spools that will weigh anywhere from 6g to 10g. Most people that do up an Ambassadeur for BFS will use a 1500C or 2500C, but then additional components are needed like a lighter spool, ball bearing idler gear and worm gear, and magnetic brake. Those small Abus are expensive to modify into BFS reels. Between the reel and associated upgrades, it's very easy to spend $500+ on one of those. My Shimano on the other hand, ran me about $325 on sale earlier this year.
Here's a guy in Japan with a tricked out 2500C. Watch his casting technique.
https://youtu.be/ujmub9cW4tQ
I guess that's my hangup. Most my fishing lately is on my ultralight, in a very vegetated lakes, casting soft plastics rigged Texas weedless style with no added weight. The heavier ones are around 0.25oz. My daiwa ss700 is great for that, and with the carbon drag upgrade I can get around 10# of drag, though I never go that high with it. And I can throw those quarter oz lures a good 50yds if I'm not aiming, or an accurate-ish 30yds.
And coming into this I very mistakenly thought that I would be able to just immediately continue doing that, but with a different type of reel. Clearly until I get a bit more advanced with my skill and equipment, a baitcaster will mean heavier lures. And that's fine too, it's just a different type of fishing.
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on October 28, 2021, 11:36:49 AM
And coming into this I very mistakenly thought that I would be able to just immediately continue doing that, but with a different type of reel. Clearly until I get a bit more advanced with my skill and equipment, a baitcaster will mean heavier lures. And that's fine too, it's just a different type of fishing.
The biggest Ambassadeur I'd consider making a finesse reel out of would be a 4500 or 4600. The aftermarket spools are light enough making them conducive to throwing 1/8 or so. Here's one of those 4500 spools, note the porting to lighten it up, plus the shallowness which translates to less rotating mass when loaded with line. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001140002917.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.20.70015d63krApX8 This one comes in at a whopping 8g, almost half the weight of a new production 4600 C3 spool.
There are many aftermarket spools out there for most of the popular low profile reels as well. Platforms like the Black Max/Silver Max/Pro Max/Revo X, Fuego/Tatula CT, and various Shimano models all have them available. The Black Max 3 is a cracking platform for a budget BFS reel and those reels can be found used for less than $30. Add another $20 to $30 for a spool, and you're fishing.
Quote from: tincanary on October 28, 2021, 10:39:36 AM
Quote from: steelfish on October 28, 2021, 05:04:23 AM
So, coming from an actual user of BFS , why did you choose BFS over small 500 spinning reels?
3 reasons; accuracy, the ability to cast in very confined quarters, and a stout drag. Most of those 500 size spinners aren't going to handle a 20"+ wild brown or rainbow, but it is plenty enough for smaller 12" and under brook trout. These BFS reels have drags like those of their larger siblings. The drag in this Calcutta is like that of the larger 100 size. I typically run 8lb or 10lb braided line and top it off with a 6lb mono leader or even 8lb if the stream conditions warrant it. The streams where I am are loaded with all kinds of gremlins like logjams, root wads, and sharp rocks. 2lb or 4lb mono like many often run typically results in lures lost to the stream or fish breaking you off in the wood.
thanks for answering amigo.
I said it before but once again, BFS fishing attracts me just for the challenge that represents I dont need accuracy fishing on the rocks, it would be pretty cool to fight a mad triggerfish with 8-10# braid and 10# mono leader on a pretty light rod with a Revo sx tricked-out for BFS, I have done it before but it was with a 2500 spinning reel with 6# mono and a daiwa megaforce 1/8-3/4 rod so, no a UL rod but still pretty thin and bendy graphite rod and the fight was like fighting a 40# homeguard YT haha, it was the fishing rod of my 8yo daughter but she couldnt handle the fish so, she passed the rod to me.
the problem is that fishing on saltwater a bigger fish can take your lure and line capacity and 10# line might not be enough.
the light saltwater fishing bug bit me when I used 6# mono on a 2500 reel for line capacity because I was casting 80-90yds or more with a 14ft 25gr rod, caught a 2# and 4# seabass / seatrout and it was a blass, I would like to do the same but with a baitcasting reel, but need line capacity to cast 1/4oz Krock spoons.
BTW, beautiful reel you have there, that calcutta BFS is awesome
Quote from: tincanary on October 28, 2021, 11:52:41 AM
There are many aftermarket spools out there for most of the popular low profile reels as well. Platforms like the Black Max/Silver Max/Pro Max/Revo X, Fuego/Tatula CT, and various Shimano models all have them available. The Black Max 3 is a cracking platform for a budget BFS reel and those reels can be found used for less than $30. Add another $20 to $30 for a spool, and you're fishing.
I put a BFS reel together out of a Revo X 4 for $50, Aliexpress spool for $20, and a couple of ceramic bearings for $10.
It will actually throw 1g (1/32 oz) lures.. I tie trout streamers on 1g jig heads and fish them on UL spin gear, was amazed to find the BFS can throw them just about as far. Though I do have to focus a bit..
2g and up throws very easily. Haven't caught a fish on it yet but live in hope ;-)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51636425803_7b2c93d828_b.jpg)
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on October 28, 2021, 11:36:49 AM
Most my fishing lately is on my ultralight, in a very vegetated lakes, casting soft plastics rigged Texas weedless style with no added weight. The heavier ones are around 0.25oz. My daiwa ss700 is great for that, and with the carbon drag upgrade I can get around 10# of drag, though I never go that high with it. And I can throw those quarter oz lures a good 50yds if I'm not aiming, or an accurate-ish 30yds.
And coming into this I very mistakenly thought that I would be able to just immediately continue doing that, but with a different type of reel. Clearly until I get a bit more advanced with my skill and equipment, a baitcaster will mean heavier lures. And that's fine too, it's just a different type of fishing.
with a 5000, I can just about throw 1/8oz most of the time, but 1/4 goes much better. These aren't great casting reels for the lighter lures, heavier spool and no mag brake does make it tricky. But 0.25oz to 30yds accurately should be quite possible.
Picked up a sadly battered 4600c and have a light spool coming for it, look forward to refurbishing the reel this winter and getting it back into fishable shape.
Quote from: DougK on October 28, 2021, 10:41:47 PM
I put a BFS reel together out of a Revo X 4 for $50, Aliexpress spool for $20,
I didnt knew BFS spools were that cheap for the Revo line up.
Quote from: steelfish on October 28, 2021, 11:53:04 PM
Quote from: DougK on October 28, 2021, 10:41:47 PM
I put a BFS reel together out of a Revo X 4 for $50, Aliexpress spool for $20,
I didnt knew BFS spools were that cheap for the Revo line up.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Abu-Garcia-BFS-Microcast-Spool-BLACK-BLUE-ORANGE-PRO-PURPLE-SILVER-MAX-3-/114277453693?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0
Might have to look into that.
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on October 29, 2021, 12:21:42 AM
Quote from: steelfish on October 28, 2021, 11:53:04 PM
Quote from: DougK on October 28, 2021, 10:41:47 PM
I put a BFS reel together out of a Revo X 4 for $50, Aliexpress spool for $20,
I didnt knew BFS spools were that cheap for the Revo line up.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Abu-Garcia-BFS-Microcast-Spool-BLACK-BLUE-ORANGE-PRO-PURPLE-SILVER-MAX-3-/114277453693?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0
Might have to look into that.
I think those spools only fit the "Max" family, black max, silver max and pro max but not 100% sure.
Quote from: steelfish on October 29, 2021, 12:33:13 AM
I think those spools only fit the "Max" family, black max, silver max and pro max but not 100% sure.
Look on AliExpress, Ray's Studio and AMO/Momo make the best BFS spools and are reasonably priced. The spool in the Max 3 reels is the same dimensions as the Revo X, so they are cross compatible.
The Max 3 spool with the short shaft (2 piece) is set up similar to how the higher end Daiwa reels come out of the factory.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001459947405.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.14.70015d63qbXDqO
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001929017070.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.62.70015d63NNhhkO
This is an AMO spool in my Daiwa Alphas CT SV.
(https://i.imgur.com/jgzHdRjh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/x4DF093h.jpg)
What is the lightest whiffle spool for a 5000C? Asking for both Jason and myself.
So, when it comes to casting light baits the controlling factors are spool weight, bearings, braking and levelwind. Modern low-pros come with light spool, good bearings, magnetic and centrifugal breaking, and disengaging levelwind. A 5000 can accommodate upgraded bearings, static magnets and levlwind removed. The spool weight is the problem and might be insurmountable simply because of the large diameter. So, is it impossible to modify a 5000 into a BFS reel?
For me, the fundamental problem with a 5000 is the size. They are too tall to comfortably palmed. To be honest, even the smaller ambassadeurs round reels are too large as well. They seem to waste too much space under the hood, The Calcutta 50 is a round reel, but very compact.
Quote from: oc1 on October 29, 2021, 05:32:42 AM
What is the lightest whiffle spool for a 5000C? Asking for both Jason and myself.
So, when it comes to casting light baits the controlling factors are spool weight, bearings, braking and levelwind. Modern low-pros come with light spool, good bearings, magnetic and centrifugal breaking, and disengaging levelwind. A 5000 can accommodate upgraded bearings, static magnets and levlwind removed. The spool weight is the problem and might be insurmountable simply because of the large diameter. So, is it impossible to modify a 5000 into a BFS reel?
For me, the fundamental problem with a 5000 is the size. They are too tall to comfortably palmed. To be honest, even the smaller ambassadeurs round reels are too large as well. They seem to waste too much space under the hood, The Calcutta 50 is a round reel, but very compact.
There was only one company producing finesse spools for the classic 5000 size, Avail out of Japan. They stopped offering the spools a few years back due to lack of demand. Their offerings now are centered around the 1500C/2500C as well as various Shimano models such as the Calcutta and Aldebaran. In my opinion, the 5000 is a poor platform for BFS due to the size. Even with a whiffle spool, the spool is still large to the point it can be problematic in throwing lighter baits. The synchronized level wind also presents a problem since it's one more component to contend with. While the level wind can be dealt with on the smaller models, they are still not as capable as a reel with a disengaging level wind. In essence, the smaller the platform, the better. Most of the 100 size and smaller low profile reels make the best candidates for a BFS conversion. For somebody wanting to get their feet wet, the Revo X/Max 3 reels from Abu and the Fuego CT from Daiwa are the best for conversion. They have good strong magnetic brakes, palm nice, and are reasonably light. There is also a seemingly dizzying array of spools available for them.
The very first one I did was a Fuego CT a couple of years ago. Got the reel new on eBay for $60 and the Ray's Studio micro cast spool set me back about another $30.
(https://i.imgur.com/aoP6EBgh.jpg)
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on October 23, 2021, 03:11:02 AM
I've become spoiled. I can't find a baitcaster rod that doesn't feel like garbage for under like $100. And I'm not gonna invest in something I may not end up using a lot. So I'm building my own for under $50 with all fuji hardware. I think i have a problem. I blame this site.
One thing leads to another. I got the rod building bug and I've turned it into a small business so it can pay for my habit. I'm a self admitted user and I can't stop. This site is my group therapy!
Wow, this is a very interesting post and I love all the technical info.
tincanary, I have an old Shimano Bantam Black Magnum baitcaster that I purchased new around 1988. Would that be a good candidate for throwing smaller lures? Say, 1/4 ounce or lighter? Are BFS parts offered for it? I haven't used it in a long time and truth be told it took a back seat after I purchased my 4600C3 new in 1991. I've been in rehab ever since.
Quote from: Walleye Guy on October 29, 2021, 02:04:50 PM
Wow, this is a very interesting post and I love all the technical info.
tincanary, I have an old Shimano Bantam Black Magnum baitcaster that I purchased new around 1988. Would that be a good candidate for throwing smaller lures? Say, 1/4 ounce or lighter? Are BFS parts offered for it? I haven't used it in a long time and truth be told it took a back seat after I purchased my 4600C3 new in 1991. I've been in rehab ever since.
I don't believe there are any available for the original Bantams made in the 80s. The only vintage reels I know for sure that have BFS spools available are the Abu 1500C/2500C and the Daiwa Millionaire GS1000C/GS2000C. Most everything out there now is made for the newer low profile reels, and some of the round reels like the Calcutta 100, Japanese variant of the Daiwa Millionaire, and the Ultracast variants of the Ambassadeur.
I picked up a NIB lefty bmax3 for next to nothing locally, and just ordered the spool from the eBay link posted before. I went for gold. A handle is easy enough to change, if I can get a different spool knob I can go non - red. Do ones from other models fit?
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on October 31, 2021, 07:28:01 PM
I picked up a NIB lefty bmax3 for next to nothing locally, and just ordered the spool from the eBay link posted before. I went for gold. A handle is easy enough to change, if I can get a different spool knob I can go non - red. Do ones from other models fit?
The tension knob from the Pro Max 3 will fit. They're the same reel with minor differences. It has gold trim which would match nice with your spool.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/284421841355
Quote from: tincanary on October 31, 2021, 07:42:17 PM
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on October 31, 2021, 07:28:01 PM
I picked up a NIB lefty bmax3 for next to nothing locally, and just ordered the spool from the eBay link posted before. I went for gold. A handle is easy enough to change, if I can get a different spool knob I can go non - red. Do ones from other models fit?
The tension knob from the Pro Max 3 will fit. They're the same reel with minor differences. It has gold trim which would match nice with your spool.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/284421841355
Thanks. I ordered that and a handle with some blue details. I've got a pile of rolls of blue braid lying around that I picked up cheap, and red details on a spool are just about the only thing it wouldn't match with. I'll be using mono for a bit before that til I get the hang of it, but I was also trying to decide how to decorate the baitcast rod I'm building, and red kinda locks you in to red.
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on November 01, 2021, 12:53:16 PM
Thanks. I ordered that and a handle with some blue details. I've got a pile of rolls of blue braid lying around that I picked up cheap, and red details on a spool are just about the only thing it wouldn't match with. I'll be using mono for a bit before that til I get the hang of it, but I was also trying to decide how to decorate the baitcast rod I'm building, and red kinda locks you in to red.
Once you're out on the water, you'll find that casting these BFS reels is a little different than bigger reels. To start, wind your bait as close to the tip as possible. This lets the tip load better with lighter offerings. Second, learn to cast with your wrist and not your whole arm. It can be a rough transition for somebody that has used spinners most of their lives, I've been there. Lastly, don't go swinging for the fences. Those lighter lures aren't going to be able to attain the distance of larger offerings. Most of your casts are going to be inside of 30yd or so, most likely even less. I tell others to picture it like a golf swing, follow through. Once you've become accustomed to the mechanics, then you can play around and develop your own technique. When first starting out, start out with the brake turned up and slowly back it off as you get comfortable. If you go on YouTube and look up Hobie Wan Kenobi, he has some very good videos showing how to cast BFS gear.
I feel like this thread is due for an update. I've tried fishing this reel a few times, and knock on wood I haven't had a backlash since I figured out that using the spool control knob is generally a good idea, and casting with an entirely unrestrained spool... Maybe less so.
It's beginning to become muscle memory, and less awkward, just like everyone said it would.
But I've come to the conclusion that I really do hate mono. A combination of this things outrageously slow retrieve (16" per turn claimed, seems like less) and the corkscrew nature of how mono lays if the lure isn't crazy heavy, makes trying to jig the lure in any familiar or successful way seem pretty impossible. And maybe it would be better with a heavier lure, but that's not really how I fish. Over about a quarter ounce I'm casting 10# mono almost as far as my spinners can throw 10# braid. So that doesn't suck, but this rod also has way more backbone so there's no direct comparison.
And I've been getting hits, but again the corkscrew nature of mono combined with stretchiness means I'm not seeing successful hook set. Ive gotten a few small bass within 5' of shore, but nothing landed yet.
So i ordered some 40# x8 jbraid to introduce at least one element of familiarity to the equation, and it just arrived today. Its a 300m spool but I'm hesitant to use more than 100yds at a time, in case of terrible backlashes I won't lose it all.
Also like a moron I put on a handle without a counterweight, and have discovered that means if the handle is in certain positions, it'll flip over on the cast, stopping the spool (and the cast). I had a half oz lure come back and whack me on the 2nd knuckle of my index finger 2 weeks ago, and that spot is still tender. I'll likely swap the handle soon, once was enough.
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on November 29, 2021, 06:54:46 PM
Also like a moron I put on a handle without a counterweight, and have discovered that means if the handle is in certain positions, it'll flip over on the cast, stopping the spool (and the cast). I had a half oz lure come back and whack me on the 2nd knuckle of my index finger 2 weeks ago, and that spot is still tender. I'll likely swap the handle soon, once was enough.
I hear ya brother...I learned about the non-counterweighted handles also! I only left them on catfishing reels...they are a hassle on a bass fishing reel. 8)
The 5000C, is that the one with ball-bearings?
I have a bunch of parts for the 5000(?). Unknown, which variants, but if Jason or anyone else needs any, lemme know. I have a shelfie 5000(early 60's) and a '73–5000 I use, with no need for parts so-far. The 3 tubes came with a nice 209 in the box as well as some other parts.
You have a good stash of brake blocks. Those pesky things will jump off on the floor at every opportunity. Replacements aren't super expensive, but on a per-ounce basis they are probably more valuable than gold.
Gfish, I'd be interested in buying those tubes of spare parts if you're looking to sell them. I have a few nice reels that I'm trying to assemble with original leather cases and it would be great to have all the extras.
Figured I'd been casting without issue for long enough to try braid. First cast caught the branch above me. That was quick. Thankfully I also brought a spinner, so I could throw a few more casts before they came and told me I wasn't allowed to fish there. And I am still yet to land my first fish on a sideways spool.
sheesh Jason.. not an auspicious beginning for braid.. it can only get better ;-)
the thing to know about braid, is it's all different.. 4 strand, 8, 9, soft, coated, hard, and on and on. So if you don't like the braid you have, try another of the hundreds of different types. Here's 71 pages and growing, of braid discussion (https://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/topic/663798-line-testing-abs-and-kbs-a-work-in-progress/?page=71)..
currently my baitcasting braid favorite is Kawa PE 0.6, an Aliexpress brand. It's a little stiffer, handles well and doesn't tangle easily. Favorite spin braid is Gliss.
Next thing I'm trying is Berkley X9, based on tincanary's recommendation and a few others on the thread mentioned above.
went out for the last canoe of the season, taking a conventional outfit for walleye and a BFS one for the trout. Briefly hooked then lost two small trout on the walleye outfit, and a 23" walleye on the BFS.. (https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51724567564_1695b7658d_b.jpg)
Cooool, that'n definitely gots the "walleyes".
This may not be proper place to ask this, but, what rods are you guys using with your BFS rigs? I've been trying to find a two or three piece medium light or lighter rod and have had no luck yet.
Thanks
Tincanary has a thread on here somewhere about BFS- or start a new thread so he'll see it. Bob is a great guy to talk all things Abu baitcaster with.
John
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=34132.0 (https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=34132.0)
Found it, thanks guys