First I confess to having lurked on the site for a while to educate myself about reels and have benefitted greatly from the tutorials and other information with which Mr Tani is so generous. Thanks!
I have not maintained my own reels before, but have been prompted to dive in, so here I go.
I have an old surfmaster 200 that I am trying to tune up. I have a power handle already, and I think I need the following parts (from the tutorials here and looking on mysticparts.com) to upgrade it:
# Item
1 7C-60 Washer, Drag, Metal Drag Washers (SET of 3) (for surfmaster 200M)
3 6-60 Washer, Drag, HT-100® (for surfmaster 200M ( uses 3 ))
(for some reason, the kit (6-60SP) is 7.60, but buying the parts separately is only 2.85 + 2.90 = 5.75 ???)
Can anyone help me out with the part number of the drag washer for replacing the fiber washer under the main gear? Or should I not bother if I am not upgrading the sleeve to SS?
I also need some supplies since I have not maintained reels before, and will need for my 2 progear 545s and 2 penn 113h's :
1 6oz. Corrosion X Aerosol
1 Cal's Universal Grease, Tan, for Larger Reels (1 Ounce)
1 224SP Penn.25 fluid oz XR1 Penn Precision Reel Grease (until I locate some yamaha marine grease)
2 168-60 Wrench
2 168-115 Wrench
Do I need a mini-grease gun with the custom inflator needle fitting? I cast with my reels, so I will use tsi on the bearings and only use the yamaha for the non-exposed metal parts. I have an old toothbrush and if I lose that, 10 fingers . . . ;D
My 113h's already have ht100's, but they still have the fiber washer under the main gear, so I think this is the part for the 113h's and I am thinking it will be the same for the 545, since they seem almost identical to the 113h - can anyone confirm this for me?
4 6-875 Washer, Drag Washer HT-100®
(as sub for 4-349 under the main gear: 2 for 545's, 2 for 113h's)
I have managed to take apart and reassemble my 113h without losing the dog spring, thanks to the tutorials, so I think I can perform the upgrades once I have the parts. But any warnings or tips to a new reel hobbyist would be most welcome.
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Quote from: wolvie on April 29, 2011, 04:53:48 AMCan anyone help me out with the part number of the drag washer for replacing the fiber washer under the main gear?
Probably #6-155. The OD will be a slightly large, but should not affect the dog.
Quote from: wolvie on April 29, 2011, 04:53:48 AM
1 224SP Penn.25 fluid oz XR1 Penn Precision Reel Grease (until I locate some yamaha engine grease)
You should buy marine grease as it is not as hygroscopic as normal grease, but you will be fine with Penn's XR1 grease as well.
Quote from: wolvie on April 29, 2011, 04:53:48 AMDo I need a mini-grease gun with the custom inflator needle fitting?
It's extremely helpful especially in lubing screw holes.
I've been using the same size drag washers, I just order an extra one for under the main gear, I then use a rounded taperd file designed to enlarge circular holes. It has been working for me and makes it easy to order drags, usually 20 strokes on a file does it. ;) I also do the same for my spinning reels
Quote from: Bryan Young on April 29, 2011, 08:53:24 AM
Quote from: wolvie on April 29, 2011, 04:53:48 AMDo I need a mini-grease gun with the custom inflator needle fitting?
It's extremely helpful especially in lubing screw holes.
The mini grease gun is really helpful if you're working on a lot of reels. If you're not ready for that yet, just grab a toothpick, goop up the end of it with grease and stick it in the screw holes to lube them. My 2 cents. :-\ That said, a grease gun with Alan's bearing packers is fantastic for greasing bearings.
Rob
Thanks everyone for your help!
I have another question: I read somewhere about a problem if you grease the screw holes because it traps the air inside and the pressure cracks the end plates. This seems like it would not be true for most frames, but I do not want to find out the hard way that mine is one. But I know if I leave them ungreased the screws can corrode into the holes and need to be drilled out. Is there a way to grease the holes such that the pressure is not a problem?
For most reels, it's not a problem, and usually occurs when using power drivers. As a minimum, you should at least grease the screw threads.
i put a dab of grease on side plate screw seats. then install the screw's this will seal the screw head and take a little grease in the frame when tightening down the screws. i use alan's needle set up, dont put too much grease. the thread tollernce is so tight with no place for the grease to escape, you can crack the frame. like bryan said watch those power driver's
Quote from: wolvie on April 29, 2011, 04:53:48 AMCan anyone help me out with the part number of the drag washer for replacing the fiber washer under the main gear?
Quote from: Bryan Young on April 29, 2011, 08:53:24 AM
Probably #6-155. The OD will be a slightly large, but should not affect the dog.
When I select the #6-155 on mysticparts.com, it asks me to specify a reel in the dropdown menu in order to add it to the basket and the 200M is not listed. Can I just choose anything? or does it matter what I choose? There is a 209M, but I am not sure that is anything like a 200 . . .
Thanks again for the help.
Just pick any reel since you're using it in an after-market modification.
Great. Thanks to all. Just one question left. (For now - maybe more after I have taken apart all 5 reels and cannot get them back together ;D)
I know the drag washer to replace the fiber washer in the 113's is the 6-875 and the guts of the pro gear 545 seem nearly identical, and I know it takes the same ht100s for the main drag, so can anyone confirm these will work as replacements for the fiber washers in my PG545's?
confirmed! good luck. um, for now just disassemble one reel at a time. ;D
Oh, OK, one at a time.
Spoilsport . . .
;D
Quote from: alantani on May 04, 2011, 06:03:12 PM
confirmed! good luck. um, for now just disassemble one reel at a time. ;D
Yeah, Alan's no fun at all. :D :D
We get cofused having just one open, can't imagine what it would be like having a couple of them opened at the same time ;D
Sometimes I have to open more two reels at the same time. One partially taken apart and the other completely to see how things fit. Other option I have done is to take pictures of the unusual construction that I am not used to.
OK. Upgrade complete. Went pretty smoothly, although that little metal tab spring for the dog is a bit tedious. I got the drags upgraded and greased with Cal's, bushings with TSI321, internals and threads with penn lube. Spins ok, but a little noisy. No bearings, just bushings, so I am not sure how good of a spin I should expect, even with the TSI. Is there anything worth doing to improve things?
I do not have a spring scale, so I am not sure how to test the drag right now, but it feels nice and smooth and pretty strong. I am more worried about rounding off the bronze gear sleeve if I torque it down too much.
Pics:
Here are the old washers - felt like cardboard and one had a rough spot.
(http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab10/wolvieweb/S3010106-1.jpg)
The dog has a wear spot on it, not from preventing reverse, but apparently just from sliding along the gear
(http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab10/wolvieweb/S3010112-1.jpg)
Here is the dog and its strip spring - not a big fan, since you can inadvertently change the tension while installing it, if you are not careful.
It's a bit out of focus - I will work on my pics. So much to learn!
(http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab10/wolvieweb/S3010115-1.jpg)
There are no bearings, just bushings on the right
(http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab10/wolvieweb/S3010128-1.jpg)
and left side plates
(http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab10/wolvieweb/S3010130-1.jpg)
The finished product. As you can see, there is some corrosion on the side rings and stand.
(http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab10/wolvieweb/S3010133-1.jpg)
This is an Ocean City 996, which I checked to see if the 6-155s would fit as replacement for the leather :o washers I found there. YES, they fit.
It has some nice features - looks like all stainless, a clip to remove the eccentric jack without needing to remove the yoke or the springs. And the dog and spring don't fall out when you take things apart.
I am also missing a clicker for it. Looks like the one in the surfmaster will fit, but it is riveted, so how would I install it if I ordered it? (http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab10/wolvieweb/S3010136-1.jpg)
Nice job Wolvie, you shouldn't be hearing any noises from the spool when spinning it. I would make sure that the spool has a little sideway movement, it should never be tight,( I'm sure that you already know) you do this by adjusting the left side bushing, it's also a good idea to soak the bushings overnight in TSI. I usually replace The dog when I see a mark on it, but in your case I think you'll be ok, the wear is from the tension spring being too open. Sorry I never opened an Ocean City reel, I did have a few larger reels in my collection. You should be getting aroun 15 lb. on that reel, I would fish it around 8lb. to keep the sleeve and gears nice and happy. Thanks for sharing, Sal
The noise is probably coming from the spool coming in contact with the sideplate or inner end rings. When spinning the spool try to listen to where the sound is coming from will help you locate the problem.
I get a good 15-20 second spin from my LongBeach 259, which uses the same spool bushings lubed with CorrosionX. You should get a little more with TSI. It will start off slow and after use, and the excess TSI is spun out, the spool should spin faster.
Penn, at the time, did not have any stainless steel parts. The main gear is made out of steel. You are luck to find one in such great shape. Make sure it's coated with a good marine grease.
The bridge, I believe, is chrome plated brass. You should lightly greased with marine grease as well.
Hope this helps.
Hi Bryan and Sal,
I should have mentioned that the spool spins silently at arm's length; only when I hold it up to my ear do I hear the noise. It just sounds like a bit of corrosion, but I do get 20 seconds of spin. I am hoping it will improve a bit with a good soak in TSI. If not, I will consider new bushings, but I think it is pretty good as it is. I will probably use this reel for friends and relatives new to cod and haddock fishing, keeping the drag low so they can get used to not tearing the hook out of the haddock's mouth or freaking out and snapping the line when a big cod gets on.
I think you are right about the bridge being chrome plated brass, since I think I see a bit of wear through in the first pic. I will bee keeping everything coated with a little grease to keep it in good shape.
Thanks for the feedback. Let's see if I can redo the Ocean City 996 without losing any pieces or rendering it non-functional . . .
I will post my results, and maybe some better pics.
I think 20 seconds is good for that reel. If after soaking the bushings the noise still bothers you, you could get new bushings from Scott's, they're abot $4 a piece. I don't beleive you will increase the speed though, it's only a jigmaster ( not that it's a bad reel ) you just can't get blood from a stone.
Sounds like your surfmaster is good to go.
Let us know how the ocean city reel goes. I may be working on and selling a bunch of reels, including ocean city, penn, and a few other older reels that were donated for kids fishing program where Alan Tani is a great supporter and sponsor. If you are interested in an older penn, serviced or not, pm me and I'll hunt through what's in the bin.
hi i have a ocean city reel that i took apart and now i cant seem to get the eccentric spring to fall in place on your pics you have the same style of parts just wondering if you can take a pic on how the eccentric spring goes
Place the spring long-side down and tuck the curved end under the top edge of the eccentric.
There should be a dip on the eccentric to accommodate the curve of the eccentric spring
(http://alantani.com/gallery/20/3590_06_08_17_3_13_34_203611984.jpeg)
PS It appears your eccentric is positioned incorrectly at present and likely needs to be pivoted 180 degrees before attaching the eccentric lever.
Hope that helps.
Good luck, Justin
i try but the the spring wont tense up or stay in place
Pity. It seems most likely now that the eccentric spring may be damaged, ie missing a small bend at the short end.
Here's a sample schematic: https://reelschematic.com/schematics/Ocean%20City/OCEAN%20CITY%20BIG%20GAME%20REEL%20603%20PART%202(1950).pdf (https://reelschematic.com/schematics/Ocean%20City/OCEAN%20CITY%20BIG%20GAME%20REEL%20603%20PART%202(1950).pdf)
You can see the little kink at the end of the eccentric spring (part #15).
Not sure how easy it'll be to find a replacement - good luck!
Other Ocean City schematics can be found here: https://reelschematic.com/schematics/oceancity.php (https://reelschematic.com/schematics/oceancity.php)
All the best, Justin