Im fishing this weekend and secured these tabai(short fin molly) and red devil cichlids. They are both introduced in my region and very plentiful. I'm actually using them for saltwater fishing but I also want to hear from the fresh water guys. I'll let you guys if anything bites them. Anyone breed their own bait?
The bottom bait we call Mud Minnows here in the FL Panhandle. They are a good bait for Flounder and others. They look like they would do good in fresh water too.
Typically, I use whatever is in the area I'm fishing. My logic is: if schools of baitfish are in an area, the fish are most likely keyed in on that species. Fish can be really fickle at times. Other times when they are hungry, they will eat anything. When things aren't working you have to mix it up. If other boats around you are going tight and you can't get a bite to save your life, you need to rethink your baits and depth. Leader size and brand are also really important.
Usually we stack our baits. So we'll put one up top, maybe 10-15 feet down. Down deep enough that the shearwaters can't dive down and steal your bait. Sometimes we use the kite and have it flipping right on the surface. The problem with fishing up top is that a lot of sharks cruise the surface. You have to keep your eye out for them. Crank in the bait as quickly as possible if you see one so they don't foul up your expensive leader and steal a $5 hook. Could be a long and frustrating day if you chum in the sharks, seals, and birds. Once they get a free meal, they won't leave you alone. Sometimes the best technique is to relocate. The surface baits we fish are baits that live up near the surface. Either a big mackerel or a bluefish. Groundfish won't look natural and won't survive at the surface.
Mid-water we are usually using mackerel or herring. In my opinion, for bluefin, herring is the best bait. It has a lot of oil. It has greater nutritional value. Plus, they are slower moving than species like halfbeaks, mackerel, sand eels, etc. They group up in massive bait balls so the tuna can take turns swooping in on the ball. People call herring tuna candy. If there are multiple species around, the herring will typically outfish all the other baits. The schools of tuna essentially chase the schools of herring up and down the coast. Tuna are opportunistic pigs though and will literally eat anything. Everything from squid, starfish, striped bass, sand eels, menhaden, etc. If they are really hungry they even eat dogfish.
Down deep we typically use either a big cod, haddock, herring, or whiting. Macs will work too. The problem with fishing down deep is that the dogfish will hammer your baits. You can't put your baits directly on the bottom unless you want to fish bare hooks. They will eat a 20lb cod bite by bite. When fishing bottom fish, it's best to get a fresh one, bridle it, and drop it right back down. The herring and groundfish are really fragile. They don't do well at the surface because the change in pressure. The trick is to crank them up really slowly and then send them back down. If you do that, they should come right back to life.
When bait is scarce, we either move or resort to dead baits.
Catching bait is pretty easy, just get an assortment of sabiki rigs. Different sizes. I like the ones with thicker main lines. 20lb test and up. No need to get the expensive ones. If there is bait up top you can sneak up on them and throw a cast net. In the past, I've set gill nets for pogys but that is a lot of work. If you are having a tough day making bait, hang a chum bag. They will come right over.
Hi, are you in Kauai? In Oahu, I have used the medaka/molly in brackish water or short time in salt water for awa awa, barracuda and papio. Aha Aha really like them. Never used a cichlid.
I usually use artificial but for live bait around the reef I trap freshwater crawfish. It's red swamp crawfish, Procambaris clarkii. They are an invasive pest in the taro loi. When there are a lot of them you can make dinner. Out on the reef they look like lobster juveniles and all the fish love them. The salt kills them in about twenty minutes.
-steve
In inland California live bait is supposed to be used only in the area that it's caught.
Not everybody follows that rule and even sometimes guys brag about it online!
steve
Quote from: smnaguwa on February 04, 2017, 06:50:40 PM
Hi, are you in Kauai? In Oahu, I have used the medaka/molly in brackish water or short time in salt water for awa awa, barracuda and papio. Aha Aha really like them. Never used a cichlid.
I'm from Kauai but currently live on Maui. HC&S(Hawaii Cane ans Sugar Co)has cut off flow in their irrigation canals and vitrually 1000's of cichlids and livebearers are dying off, almost seems like a waste to not use them. After heavy rains I have seen dead mollys miles off shore, so I think they are a pretty natural prey item. There maybe better baits out there but no bad most the fish around arent too picky, if they are around you'll know it.
Quote from: oc1 on February 04, 2017, 08:22:44 PM
I usually use artificial but for live bait around the reef I trap freshwater crawfish. It's red swamp crawfish, Procambaris clarkii. They are an invasive pest in the taro loi. When there are a lot of them you can make dinner. Out on the reef they look like lobster juveniles and all the fish love them. The salt kills them in about twenty minutes.
-steve
I'm going to try the crayfish, thats another one that seems like you can always find around. I like the idea of using the invasives in some form.
Quote from: swill88 on February 04, 2017, 08:32:15 PM
In inland California live bait is supposed to be used only in the area that it's caught.
Not everybody follows that rule and even sometimes guys brag about it online!
steve
Makes sense but using freshwater bait in saltwater really isnt the worst practice in the sense virtually none of the parasites transfer from fresh to salt and no chance of introducing species(assuming they are true FW species and not brackish). I dropped my baits down 120ft, with a zero survival rate
Alright guys I'll level with you, I got skunked; didnt fish long though but heres a pic from last weekend.
Carangoides orthogrammus | Yellow Spot Ulua | Island Trevally
Quote from: wailua boy on February 05, 2017, 12:36:57 AM
Alright guys I'll level with you, I got skunked; didnt fish long though but heres a pic from last weekend.
Carangoides orthogrammus | Yellow Spot Ulua | Island Trevally
That catch makes up for 3 skunks.
Great fishing!
Thanks.
Quote from: FatTuna on February 03, 2017, 09:45:36 PM
Typically, I use whatever is in the area I'm fishing. My logic is: if schools of baitfish are in an area, the fish are most likely keyed in on that species. Fish can be really fickle at times. Other times when they are hungry, they will eat anything. When things aren't working you have to mix it up. If other boats around you are going tight and you can't get a bite to save your life, you need to rethink your baits and depth. Leader size and brand are also really important.
Usually we stack our baits. So we'll put one up top, maybe 10-15 feet down. Down deep enough that the shearwaters can't dive down and steal your bait. Sometimes we use the kite and have it flipping right on the surface. The problem with fishing up top is that a lot of sharks cruise the surface. You have to keep your eye out for them. Crank in the bait as quickly as possible if you see one so they don't foul up your expensive leader and steal a $5 hook. Could be a long and frustrating day if you chum in the sharks, seals, and birds. Once they get a free meal, they won't leave you alone. Sometimes the best technique is to relocate. The surface baits we fish are baits that live up near the surface. Either a big mackerel or a bluefish. Groundfish won't look natural and won't survive at the surface.
Mid-water we are usually using mackerel or herring. In my opinion, for bluefin, herring is the best bait. It has a lot of oil. It has greater nutritional value. Plus, they are slower moving than species like halfbeaks, mackerel, sand eels, etc. They group up in massive bait balls so the tuna can take turns swooping in on the ball. People call herring tuna candy. If there are multiple species around, the herring will typically outfish all the other baits. The schools of tuna essentially chase the schools of herring up and down the coast. Tuna are opportunistic pigs though and will literally eat anything. Everything from squid, starfish, striped bass, sand eels, menhaden, etc. If they are really hungry they even eat dogfish.
Down deep we typically use either a big cod, haddock, herring, or whiting. Macs will work too. The problem with fishing down deep is that the dogfish will hammer your baits. You can't put your baits directly on the bottom unless you want to fish bare hooks. They will eat a 20lb cod bite by bite. When fishing bottom fish, it's best to get a fresh one, bridle it, and drop it right back down. The herring and groundfish are really fragile. They don't do well at the surface because the change in pressure. The trick is to crank them up really slowly and then send them back down. If you do that, they should come right back to life.
When bait is scarce, we either move or resort to dead baits.
Catching bait is pretty easy, just get an assortment of sabiki rigs. Different sizes. I like the ones with thicker main lines. 20lb test and up. No need to get the expensive ones. If there is bait up top you can sneak up on them and throw a cast net. In the past, I've set gill nets for pogys but that is a lot of work. If you are having a tough day making bait, hang a chum bag. They will come right over.
I found a good seller on Amazon for sabiki rigs, 20 packs for $20 free shipping
Quote from: handi2 on February 03, 2017, 09:06:22 PM
The bottom bait we call Mud Minnows here in the FL Panhandle. They are a good bait for Flounder and others. They look like they would do good in fresh water too.
[/quote
They seem to be some of the more common fish in our irrigation canals with no predators except birds(no predatory fish for the most part) they form big schools. Probably seen a couple close to 4-5 inches in length.
That catch makes up for 3 skunks.
Great fishing!
Thanks.
[/quote]
Thank you sir. They were quite tasty.
These are the ones I use. I don't play games. We are fishing for keeps. I've tried many brands. These are the best for the money. Put a diamond jig on the bottom. http://www.ebay.com/itm/sabiki-bait-rigs-6-hooks-offshore-fishing-lure-Size-1-0-2-4-6-8-10-12-14-6-99-/181921205117?var=&hash=item2a5b594b7d:m:m8Dl0wK1iI4zFJWEgU9Uiqw
Catching bait should be pretty easy. It has more to do with time spent and jig size. Mark the bait and play with speed. It depends on the species.
Learn to bridle rig. You will be way ahead of everyone else. Big baits, big fish.
Quote from: FatTuna on February 05, 2017, 03:27:00 AM
These are the ones I use. I don't play games. We are fishing for keeps. I've tried many brands. These are the best for the money. Put a diamond jig on the bottom. http://www.ebay.com/itm/sabiki-bait-rigs-6-hooks-offshore-fishing-lure-Size-1-0-2-4-6-8-10-12-14-6-99-/181921205117?var=&hash=item2a5b594b7d:m:m8Dl0wK1iI4zFJWEgU9Uiqw
Catching bait should be pretty easy. It has more to do with time spent and jig size. Mark the bait and play with speed. It depends on the species.
Learn to bridle rig. You will be way ahead of everyone else. Big baits, big fish.
I'll have to check them out. I was just glad not to be paying $5 like they charge locally, it can add up. I'll sometimes add a curlytail or a glowstick
I have a few that come with a weighted basket on the bottom. Fill it with cat food,helps alot when bait making is scratchy.
Nice catch Wailua.
It wouldn't bother me to see a bunch of molly and cichlids dying off. Putting stream flows back to their natural state doesn't sound like a bad idea either. It's sad to see big sugar go, but it could be a plus for the environment.... at least until they replace sugar cane with condos.
-steve
True. Glad to see the water being returned to the streams for our native species. Too bad there wasnt more of a use for the fish in the canals, the night herons are taking advantage though and are taking cow patty sized dumps and seem to being feeding 24/7. If you head to the streams they are flowing like no one has seen around here. Could benefit some SW species too. I did hear alot of game fish use the river mouths as nurseries especially our white ulua. I do remember seeing as a kid, the Wailua river mouth would fill in with sand and every once in a while you would see big uluas plowing thru the sand bars with dorsals exposed to get back to sea. People would rush out there with a gaff and try to get them.
We used sabiki rigs like the ones in the link in Fat Tuna's post to catch small mackerels for Yellowtail baits last season in So. Cal. I've also used them to make bait in East Cape, Baja, Mx.
Nice. The sabiki seems to be a popular way to catch bait and for good reason. Also if anyone has pics of any bait fish post it up.
I use a sabiki rig and a cast net, not at the same time. I use pilchards, killies and pinfish crabs (blue claw, fiddler) for live bait. I use a small pail and a shovel to catch fiddler crabs. Dig a hole deep enough to drop the pail into and push the sand up to the sides of the pail. Walk away and come back a little while later.
We are lucky to have lots of live bait choices in Southwest Florida:
Ballyhoo, Blue Runners, Pinfish, Bunker (menhaden),Pilchards, Threadfin, Striped Mullet, Finger Mullet, Mud Minnows.
Fiddler Crab, Blue Crab, Pass Crab, Shrimp, Ladyfish, Hardhead Catfish, etc.
I use a pinfish trap baited with chum, sabiki rigs, and cast nets to load the live wells. Of course, the bait harvested is dependent on the season and the targeted species. Tarpon season is coming up and Pass Crabs are deadly - tourists pay up to $3 each for them at the bait stores but they are very easy to catch with a dip net if you anchor up into the current around bridge pilings and are patient. Snook, Reds, and Permit can't turn them down either.
We used to use a shrimp light and a dip net for shrimp, but frankly it's a nighttime endeavor and can be a royal pain in the backside. I don't gripe about paying $22/hundred at Anderson's Tackle.
Went to onea those Smith Family Luau's near the mouth of the Wailua River a couple of years ago. It was Ulua spotting time for me. I was surprised that they swim up the river and then into the garden ponds (brackish water?), but why the heck not? A lotta people like me wondering around, but so many prey species to chase down. It was very interesting to watch their hunting behavior. Usually 2 of 'em, side by side movin' slow and ominous lookin as they swung their heads side to side in unison. Talk about instant attack acceleration.
Nice Yellow Spot T's. What'ed they take?
I fish strictly fresh water and have a variety of ways to catch bait.
If I'm going after shad minnows, a 7' aluminum handled telescopic net that extends to 14'works very well. Similar to this one, but much longer. I've never owned a cast net and find this is probably more convenient.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/17863_27_02_20_3_36_21.jpeg)
For small shiners, fatheads, chubs, and suckers, the old original Gee's minnow trap baited with stale bread, crackers, or cat food is sufficient. Those black minnow traps from Walmart aren't as effective.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/17863_27_02_20_3_39_56.jpeg)
Another baitfish, the skipjack herring aka Tennessee Tarpon is a hot commodity for catfish and stripers here in the southeast. Stripers and cats aren't too finicky, they'll take them live or cut with plenty of blood. Catching skipjack is a sport in itself, they'll hit small shiny baits about 2", jigs, spoons, spinners, or anythng else flashy. I've caught them on bass crankbaits too.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/17863_27_02_20_3_49_21.jpeg)
Bigger bluegill, large shiners, big chubs can be caught on redworms or tiny hair jigs.
I sometimes make my own sabiki rigs. I thread in 1-2 holographic confetti I get from the arts and crafts section through each hook. Cheap and effective!
primarily I use anchovies either frozen packs shipped from the PNW or if theyre abundant I get a few with my castnet or a sabiki rig. Later in the season I use mackeral these are always caught on sabiki rigs.
There was a manufacturer that made 8 hook sabiki's. I would cut then half and get 2 rigs per pack and they worked great. I only have a few left but the packaging is long gone and I don't remember who made them. I think they even were made with fluorocarbon and not costly at all.
Making bait here in So Cal and Baja #1 is the sabiki for Macks and Caballito's (bigeye shad), #2 a squid jig unless you have all night and you can get the market squid to float and then you scoop them up. Large Humboldt squid means a really large squid jig. #3 a cast net for Sardinas in Baja, they are not the same Sardines we have here in So Cal. #4 the last and best way to get bait here in So Cal it to pull up to the bait barges and fill up your bait tank. All major landings here have these and they are great.
Quote from: SoCalAngler on March 07, 2020, 09:49:03 PM
There was a manufacturer that made 8 hook sabiki's. I would cut then half and get 2 rigs per pack and they worked great. I only have a few left but the packaging is long gone and I don't remember who made them. I think they even were made with fluorocarbon and not costly at all...
(sp.?) Hayabusa ?
In Oahu, I have used sabiki rigs to catch nehu and halalu for bait. Hayabusa makes great sabiki rigs.
Quote from: smnaguwa on March 14, 2020, 12:13:47 PM
In Oahu, I have used sabiki rigs to catch nehu and halalu for bait. Hayabusa makes great sabiki rigs.
I've found the Hayabusa to be the best but unfortunately they are often the most expensive. In S. Florida, the most commonly used live baits are Pilchards and Goggle eyes (Bigeye Scad). Other live baits commonly used offshore are Blue Runners, Threadfin Herring, Speedos, Ballyhoo, Mullet, Tinker Mackerel, Cigar Minnows and what are often called "Bar Jacks" but they are really Juvenile Almaco Jacks that are found around the floating Sargassum. One other bait that is sort of kept quiet is using a 12" (legal minimum size) Spanish Mackerel for large Kingfish. or a 12" Yellowtail Snapper for large Grouper.
Quote from: Gfish on February 27, 2020, 07:58:06 PM
Went to onea those Smith Family Luau's near the mouth of the Wailua River a couple of years ago. It was Ulua spotting time for me. I was surprised that they swim up the river and then into the garden ponds (brackish water?), but why the heck not? A lotta people like me wondering around, but so many prey species to chase down. It was very interesting to watch their hunting behavior. Usually 2 of 'em, side by side movin' slow and ominous lookin as they swung their heads side to side in unison. Talk about instant attack acceleration.
Nice Yellow Spot T's. What'ed they take?
Sorry for the delayed response but they bit a live to'au or the black tail snapper another introduced species at maybe 4in in length.