I recently bought two Tica Team reels; an ST468 and an ST668R. The 468 has the exact same line capacity as my 12T and the 668 has the exact same line capacity as an Int. 30 Global - so I intended to pair them each with their Penn counterpart on the spread.
My process of spooling involves temporarily spooling the 100yd topshot on the BOTTOM of the spool then "filling" the reel with the braid off the bulk spool with only the tension from by feet holding the spool. This is to get the "real" capacity of the reel. Then I make the service reel stationary in a rod holder and use a tanked Penn 114 on a standup rod to draw all the braid off, then spin the mono topshot off on a smaller empty reel. At this point ill FG knot a small mono backing and begin applying the braid at VERY high tension to the spindle - but on the ST468 I never got to that point
As I was drawing the line off with the 114 I was getting THE WORST drag jerking I have ever felt - including from old thick Penn drag disks. It was so bad I hoped I could get the line off. After successfully removing the line I opened the 468 and lightly greased the drag plates with Cal's and re-assembled. I put a small amount of 50# mono on the spindle and did a couple dozen 30ft long pulls as fast as I could. The line tension was set at 20# at strike. The jerking was still there and was more pronounced the slower you pulled, but still about 5x less than dry. They felt smooth when pulling fast - which is something that did not happen when dry.
Ive sent an email and a FB message to Tica, but im not hopeful on support from this company.
The new ST668R is silky smooth dry, I removed 330yds of 50# mono from that reel and it was buttery smooth.
Any recommendations?
The Wiskers
Well, dig into the drag stack and see what's up. If as I suspect, your steel washers aren't smooth you can lay down some sand paper and rub them in circles until flat.
Rancanfish,
This is a lever drag, there is no "stack". It has two CF drag washers bonded to two opposing aluminum plates with a fixed stainless steel plate between them. Somewhat similar to 5th gen Penn Duradrag configuration
The Wiskers
You evenly grease the fiber washers then dry them off. You don't grease the drag plate.
Quote from: MarkT on August 13, 2021, 12:26:39 AM
You evenly grease the fiber washers then dry them off. You don't grease the drag plate.
That's precisely what I did. Im aware of the tendency of liberally greased lever drag washers to "float" if over greased. There is an absolute minimum of drag grease on the CF washers
Ah, that may be a bit different. Maybe the plate in the middle is not flat. Drags is drags. I have no idea when it comes to lever drags. My last one was a Tld 5 lol.
Quote from: Rancanfish on August 13, 2021, 12:37:18 AM
Ah, that may be a bit different. Maybe the plate in the middle is not flat. Drags is drags. I have no idea when it comes to lever drags. My last one was a Tld 5 lol.
I have many Penn and a few Shimano LD's. I cant see what could be causing the problem other than manufacturing defect. The drags are bonded to the driver plates. The plate in the middle is a complex shape part with recesses on the drag surface on both sides - conceivably to have been "ground flat" by a precision milling machine.
You cant exactly get parts for these reels from Mystic Parts.com... im trying to determine if it was just a bad move to have tried with a chinese reel - even one that's supposed to be halfway decent
Quote from: Rancanfish on August 13, 2021, 12:37:18 AM
Ah, that may be a bit different. Maybe the plate in the middle is not flat. Drags is drags. I have no idea when it comes to lever drags. My last one was a Tld 5 lol.
Go look what that TLD 5 is worth nowadays!
Willie, I have a ST458 that had the same issue. I think the oil in the spool bearings was leaking into the drag. After cleaning them off and regreasing with Cal's, I had to go in again and wipe off some of the Cal's before it finally got smooth. Definitely less is better with these reels' drags. I think they work best dry (if you're willing to do that). Hope this helps.
On another note, does the drag adjustment knob on your ST468 turn smoothly or does it click?
many years ago, when Tica was new, I needed some rod info
their CS was beyond responsive -- downright, eager
has that changed?
Quote from: nelz on August 13, 2021, 01:26:59 AM
Willie, I have a ST458 that had the same issue. I think the oil in the spool bearings was leaking into the drag. After cleaning them off and regreasing with Cal's, I had to go in again and wipe off some of the Cal's before it finally got smooth. Definitely less is better with these reels' drags. I think they work best dry (if you're willing to do that). Hope this helps.
On another note, does the drag adjustment knob on your ST468 turn smoothly or does it click?
Ill try cleaning them off completely with solvent. I did notice oil around the drags, its likely that it got on them like you said. My preset knob clicks when its turned.
Ill definately try dry first after cleaning off. The ST668R is dry and smooth as a greased Penn under very high pressure.
Thanks for your advice!
Quote from: philaroman on August 13, 2021, 01:48:25 AM
many years ago, when Tica was new, I needed some rod info
their CS was beyond responsive -- downright, eager
has that changed?
I have never owned or dealt with Tica before. I was assuming since they are such a small player in the US and a chinese company i wouldnt get anywhere. That might prove wrong, well see. I have emails and FB messages out as of today.
I didnt find 100% correct parts diagrams or anyone on the interwebs selling parts - so that isnt a good sign.
I dont often "clean" CF drags vs. replace them.... is it "Carb cleaner" or "brake cleaner" that you use?
TYIA
If the Drags are to be Dry I would start over and clean everything associated with the Washers ,Disks etc with BRAKE CLEANER (It removes ALL OIL )Please WEAR GLOVES in a ventilated area or outside .
I would get a piece of Marble or Glass and lightly sand everything with 2000 grit wet /dry sand paper .
and RE-Brake Clean them once more and reassemble .If some grease is needed then you are starting with Fresh Material that will absorb it properly . Carb Cleaner is For Carburetors not Reels in my opinion and does not do the job that Brake Cleaner does for Discs and such.
Good Luck to you .
Quote from: Wompus Cat on August 13, 2021, 02:28:27 AM
If the Drags are to be Dry I would start over and clean everything associated with the Washers ,Disks etc with BRAKE CLEANER (It removes ALL OIL )Please WEAR GLOVES in a ventilated area or outside .
I would get a piece of Marble or Glass and lightly sand everything with 2000 grit wet /dry sand paper .
and RE-Brake Clean them once more and reassemble .If some grease is needed then you are starting with Fresh Material that will absorb it properly . Carb Cleaner is For Carburetors not Reels in my opinion and does not do the job that Brake Cleaner does for Discs and such.
Good Luck to you .
I can do the brake cleaner, but that's it. There's no sanding the stainless drag plate in between the two drag/driver plates - the center of the plate is recessed in the center on each side where the drag/driver plate makes contact. Presumably because it was slightly ground with a milling machine to make that part of the face even.
I just want to be certain that the BRAKE CLEANER wont de-bond the CF material from the driver plates. Think gen 6 duradrag setup on an International - that's basically what it is.
Gotcha on the Drag/Driver Plate Recess.
I have used Brake Cleaner on Automotive applications for many years with NO problems pertaining to the Bonding on the Pads or Shoe however can't speak for the Fishing Drag application without knowing the Bonding agent used to adhere them .
Since you have a problem with them now I would try it anyway and be sure to let them dry well before reuse because at this point the only other thing to do is Replace them anyway ??
Think of it like this ; If you get oil on your Brake pads or Clutch disk in your car it might work just Fine a couple of times but as it things Heat up from friction the oil in the disk material will start gumming up and will make jump ,bind, grind,slip ,slide ,smoke .....etc.
You DO NOT want to get Brake Cleaner on any Paint and Most Plastics as it Will Disolve them . That goes for Most Brake Fluids too.......
Good luck and please post back you results.
I have cleaned the bonded drag / driver plates with brake cleaner - they look pristine. The metal drag plate has marks on it that indicated uneven rubbing between the drag disk and the drag plate. This can be seen in the radial wear lines in the attached image. The other side only has round lines curving around like one would expect. This side has troublesome markings. In the picture the stainless drag disk had also been cleaned with brake cleaner.
Im going to put back together dry and see what happens... Notice how the wear surface is recessed - this prevents "sanding" the metal with 2000 grit sandpaper as other have mentioned.
The Wiskers
Crazy high start-up drag... with a "crack" when it starts to move from a dead stop.... Im going to grease it now and see if there's any change.
https://youtu.be/lH0zxjN8-3A (https://youtu.be/lH0zxjN8-3A)
From the pictures , it looks like the friction is rimming a little . The bottom friction at the 6 oclock position .
I would also mark the intermediary plate with a marking pen and try clocking the plate on different lugs , and see it comes more concentric with the frictions , if that make sense ..
The parts you can not get to with Sand paper use 6/0 steel wool wadded up and it will clean it up pretty well and of course Brake Clean after .
Quote from: Wompus Cat on August 14, 2021, 02:56:58 AM
The parts you can not get to with Sand paper use 6/0 steel wool wadded up and it will clean it up pretty well and of course Brake Clean after .
I have just greased the drag washers very lightly, but did not wipe them with a paper towel. Re-assembled and the "jerk" that was 10# dry when pulled slowly is now only 2# when pulled slowly. At this point I'm convinced this is the milling defect in the "intermediate plate", as you called it. I do not think my jerking will get any better than this unless that plate is replaced. I cant see how I can correct such a small tolerance defect with hand rubbing of any kind.
Ill see if i can possibly find a part number.
There has been NO response from TICA on their facebook account or their customer service email.
The Wiskers
Well IF you can get new parts maybe it's best however you would be surprised what you can do with varying grades of rubbing compounds , Polishes ,and a lot of Elbow Grease . You are making a difference it seems .
If that is the housing in the upper corner your drags fit into it has some issues that need to be be cleaned up too.
Try the same test using braid...
Also, not sure if this is just camera lens distortion, or is this part really so off center?
Quote from: nelz on August 14, 2021, 04:32:25 AM
Also, not sure if this is just camera lens distortion, or is this part really so off center?
Optical illusion. Its a star an even star shape and fits the splines on the shaft.
Quote from: nelz on August 14, 2021, 04:24:17 AM
Try the same test using braid...
I dont see what the type of line im using is. I pull 10's of thousands of KM of line off reels every year - nylon, dacron, PE or spectra. NONE of them jerk like this. I assume you're probably thinking its line stretch - but the thing about that and CF drags is... once the line stretches at a certain tension and the drags slip it should stay consistent relative to the pulling tension applied.
The Wiskers
Quote from: Wompus Cat on August 14, 2021, 03:35:14 AM
Well IF you can get new parts maybe it's best however you would be surprised what you can do with varying grades of rubbing compounds , Polishes ,and a lot of Elbow Grease . You are making a difference it seems .
If that is the housing in the upper corner your drags fit into it has some issues that need to be be cleaned up too.
Im sure under different circumnstances it could be smoothed. However in this case I cant see how. I dont have a "high" spot, I have half a milled recess that is cut deeper than the other side - by a VERY tiny bit. I cant normalize that gradual of a change under such small tolerances; in a confined recess.
I have to try and find a new one. Im going to try Tica America on the phone tomorrow.
The Wiskers
Quote from: williewiskers on August 14, 2021, 04:37:17 AMOptical illusion. Its a star an even star shape and fits the splines on the shaft.
Ah, ok. Yeah, I'm very familiar with this Tica design, I've had mine apart many times, it just looked funky in the photo.
Btw, I can tell you that mine is a little jerky with mono, but totally smooth with braid. Don't ask me why, I'm sure Mr. Jure-o-something can explain it. Anyway, I went with braid as a result.
Just a thought from the cheap seats - you cleaned up the drag/driver plates and they look pristine. But have you checked to make sure they are flatly laminated to to plate? If there is an sort of variation where the drag is not 100% flat and in contact it could induce "chatter".
Hold on Thar Bobba a Louie like Quicks Draw Mc Graw use to say .
I just noticed BNIB in your header .
That is a color of a different Horse indeedy.
Unless you have been using that Reel for a towing winch on your truck /Jeep then there is NO WAY those pieces would have that kinda wear showing just spooling it up and testing the Drag function.
Is this A Brand NEW In Box deal or have you used it a year or so ?
If it is NEW and unused then someone sold you a USED REEL not NEW and Tica needs a return .
You are obviously a Patient ,knowing individual and I think Close to a Resolve here otherwise .
Quote from: nelz on August 14, 2021, 04:57:04 AM
Quote from: williewiskers on August 14, 2021, 04:37:17 AMOptical illusion. Its a star an even star shape and fits the splines on the shaft.
Ah, ok. Yeah, I'm very familiar with this Tica design, I've had mine apart many times, it just looked funky in the photo.
Btw, I can tell you that mine is a little jerky with mono, but totally smooth with braid. Don't ask me why, I'm sure Mr. Jure-o-something can explain it. Anyway, I went with braid as a result.
When I was pulling the line off initially after metering it, it was 500yds of 50# x4 braid... super jerky. So bad i wasnt sure I could spool the line off
The Wiskers
Quote from: Wompus Cat on August 14, 2021, 12:56:19 PM
Hold on Thar Bobba a Louie like Quicks Draw Mc Graw use to say .
I just noticed BNIB in your header .
That is a color of a different Horse indeedy.
Unless you have been using that Reel for a towing winch on your truck /Jeep then there is NO WAY those pieces would have that kinda wear showing just spooling it up and testing the Drag function.
Is this A Brand NEW In Box deal or have you used it a year or so ?
If it is NEW and unused then someone sold you a USED REEL not NEW and Tica needs a return .
You are obviously a Patient ,knowing individual and I think Close to a Resolve here otherwise .
Brand New in box, never spooled until a few days ago when I tried to get it setup with line.
The Wiskers
Yeah, sounds like you got a lemon. Something's out of alignment or warped.
sorry to show up so late in the game. so here's what i've got so far. the stainless steel rotor is perfectly smooth. the two drag plates are newly cleaned and regreased. and yet, somehow, the drag remains jerky. ok, usually that means one thing and one thing only. there has to be a high spot in the carbon fiber sheet somewhere. you can't see it, but it's there.
usually the cause is saltwater intrusion into the carbon fiber material itself that reaches the aluminum pressure plate and then a single spot "bubbles up" because of corrosion. in the case of a new reel, it could be that the carbon fiber material itself had a "lump" in it. and lastly, when the drag disc was being made, a piece of "junk" got in between the perfectly flat carbon fiber washer and the perfectly flat aluminum pressure plate, creating small high spot that is causing your problem.
bottom line, the drag pressure plates need to be replaced. this single defect needs only be 5 to 10 thousandths of an inch high to cause these problems. it is likely something that you will not be able to feel. if you actually do feel a high spot, you could "dig" down to the metal with a small pocket knife, and see if the problem goes away. you likely have bad drag washers that no amount of grease will fix. :-\
Quote from: alantani on August 15, 2021, 03:32:40 PM
sorry to show up so late in the game. so here's what i've got so far. the stainless steel rotor is perfectly smooth. the two drag plates are newly cleaned and regreased. and yet, somehow, the drag remains jerky. ok, usually that means one thing and one thing only. there has to be a high spot in the carbon fiber sheet somewhere. you can't see it, but it's there.
usually the cause is saltwater intrusion into the carbon fiber material itself that reaches the aluminum pressure plate and then a single spot "bubbles up" because of corrosion. in the case of a new reel, it could be that the carbon fiber material itself had a "lump" in it. and lastly, when the drag disc was being made, a piece of "junk" got in between the perfectly flat carbon fiber washer and the perfectly flat aluminum pressure plate, creating small high spot that is causing your problem.
bottom line, the drag pressure plates need to be replaced. this single defect needs only be 5 to 10 thousandths of an inch high to cause these problems. it is likely something that you will not be able to feel. if you actually do feel a high spot, you could "dig" down to the metal with a small pocket knife, and see if the problem goes away. you likely have bad drag washers that no amount of grease will fix. :-\
TICA USA said its 3 mos to get any parts for this reel ORDERED. I bought an offset micrometer and am going to find the PRECISE cause of the jerk and see if i can do something else about it. It will be more likely I can "fix" it if its something on the drag plates like you say.
Thank you
Lay it on some glass and see if you can see something from underneath.
Alan, you still amaze me after all these years.