So I have a 50's vintage Penn 209 with a significant amount of chrome loss after doing the vinegar bath. I am shopping for a donor reel to replace the posts and base, but these posts are different, the ends are beveled.
Would a set of rings and posts from a modern 209 fit onto the older side plates?
Quote from: nelz on December 16, 2022, 09:45:16 PMI am shopping for a donor reel to replace the posts and base, but these posts are different, the ends are beveled.
Would a set of rings and posts from a modern 209 fit onto the older side plates?
I just did it, so yes the later posts and rings fit the earlier model. You likely have the Penn Sr.
Now, the reel stand for the saltwater (MS) model is a 30-66, freshwater (MF) is 209F. Leave out the "M" for the plastic spool model.
Also, the earliest 209's were built just a little differently. Here's the insides of the clicker side.
And the outside profile of the same. See the smooth ramp-up to the bearing cap vs the one on the rt? Your reel is likely similar to the one on the left.
The older idler gear is fiber and the newer is nylon. The clicker spring mount is different, too.
Sooooo, when choosing a whole donor reel, look for that profile on the left and you'll likely get period-correct internal parts. As for chrome, later models will work.
Those reels and parts are still plentiful and reasonable, but bunches are selling all the time. Get 'em now.
Thanks for the helpful info. My reel has the 30-66 base, chrome spool, and the older fiber idler gear.
Is there a way to tell the older version just by looking at it? (Without opening it up that is.)
Are all the spool types interchangeable?
What kinda drag washers does it have?
Quote from: Gfish on December 17, 2022, 02:27:52 AMWhat kinda drag washers does it have?
Well they disintegrated as I removed them, very old leather no doubt. Btw, I know for sure this reel is from the mid 50's.
Quote from: nelz on December 17, 2022, 01:57:16 AMIs there a way to tell the older version just by looking at it? (Without opening it up that is.)
Yes, here's a better look. Red is the later model. You'll see the exterior side plate molding is different. Along with that, the colors are typically black or dark maroon and the logo is within a circle instead of spreading out across the plate on the later model.
Are all the spool types interchangeable?
Yes. I use these reels and swap parts as needed. I keep 6 on-hand of 209, 309, and #9. The old 209's go to the retirement cabinet.
I have 109's but rarely use one. I'd have to take a "few minutes" of practice casting a 109.8)
I lucked out and found a nice donor reel. The gears and spool are trashed, severely corroded, but it has nice rings, posts, base, and surprisingly, the level wind looks great and works.
The level wind gears/parts all fit my old reel perfectly and are working smoothly. Now comes the posts/rings exchange. The donor reel has the newer standard posts and rings, so, before I start further surgery, you say they can replace my older beveled post/rings without issue?
Quote from: nelz on January 05, 2023, 09:26:12 PMyou say they can replace my older beveled post/rings without issue?
Yes, the offset of the old post is basically cut close to the thickness of the old ring. As long as everything is tight and square, the new posts will do fine. Be careful not to overtighten the screws as they have been known to twist off. You'll be hating that.
What I've
not tried is putting the old style posts on a newer reel. Hang on to the old style posts. Somebody might need them and they are hard to come by as loose parts. BTW, that's called hoarding and it's good.
Argh! Total failure. The newer rings do NOT align with the older sideplates. There is a little stubby post on each sideplate that keeps the ring properly aligned with the plate. However, although the newer rings fit, that little post throws them out of alignment with the screwholes!
The post could be filed off allowing the ring to shift into correct sync with the screwholes, but I refuse to alter the original plates.
So, I found myself looking for that "third hand" to put this sucker back together, what a pain! Anyway, it's finally back together, ugly chrome and all, but at least the level wind works now.
It's gonna be tough to find a donor reel from that era that still looks good.
*** Btw, both sets of rings have the same part numbers, go figure.
This is the post I'm talking about, it throws the alignment of the newer rings to the screwholes off.
Shellbelly, I notice your plates don't have it, did you remove it?
Quote from: nelz on January 07, 2023, 02:43:36 PMdid you remove it?
Not intentionally! It can be a rather fragile appendage though. See in my pics that the red plate is damaged where it was. Sometimes the bakelite "tab" gets deformed and pops off when the ring is removed at a certain angle or is a tight fit to begin with. If a ring "snaps" into place because of that tab, it is likely not to survive many ring removals.
From my perspective, it's an occupational hazard that comes with using and servicing my X09's as much as I do.
Maybe I'm confused here...well, I am. The earlier model doesn't have the tab...mine doesn't that is, and has no evidence of it ever being there. Next, all of my later models have/had the tab and they are all between the two stand screws. So, the later 209 ring with a "tab hole" will correctly fit both the earlier model and the red 209's...
at least among the 6 working, 2 parts reels, and one "Sr" models I have. Never had an alignment problem, tab or no tab and I'm a few decades into these particular models...not an expert, just a fisherman.
I don't play with the latest black-plated reels so I can't compare to those.
Now, there's always the Penn Factor. The tab could have moved, the ring changed and we aren't apples to apples here in our discussion.
Let's keep going until I'm not confused or we solve the problem. 8)
So here's the actual reels I've been referring to. They both have the tab, but it differs in its position ever so slightly. Yes, one is the collector greenie from the 50's, all original, bevelled posts and all.
Quote from: nelz on January 11, 2023, 06:13:44 AMThey both have the tab, but it differs in its position ever so slightly.
Ok, here's mine. There's no tab and I'm 99% sure there never was one on my side plate. Another sign of the earlier framing style is the molding inset at the post locations. This inset accepts the protrusion of the post occurring when it's set into the ring.
So, this little tab issue appears to be another obscure Penn anomaly since we have proven early plates with and without it. The rabbit hole is to find out when that happened. Catalogs are probably not going to be helpful. It'll take the examination of reels with known production periods. WHEW!
From a collector's standpoint, this little detail could be important. If you see an early reel with a tab hole in the ring, but no tab on the plate, then you know something happened...ring was replaced or a broken-off tab. Now there's gonna be a run on "no-tab-hole" rings!
From a repair/replace standpoint, it's now become a pain in the behind.
At the risk of being pelted with rotten veggies, "tab" and "tab hole" are probably not the true technical terms. 8)
Quote from: Shellbelly on January 12, 2023, 06:42:29 PMNow there's gonna be a run on "no-tab-hole" rings!
* Have you ever seen a (USA) plate without the hole?
Yeah, Penn has done some wacky things in production. Again, on these models, as per Mystic Reel Parts:
"
For the 209M:
On early run models of the 209 reels (1958-1960ish): The idler gear and the levelwind drive gear originally had slightly different dimensions. Penn changed the number on the drive gear to reflect this but the idler gear number was never changed."
Luckily, at least the level wind gears from the donor worked, got my $5 worth from it. :)
Quote from: nelz on January 13, 2023, 02:46:45 PMHave you ever seen a (USA) plate without the hole?
I can't say that I have. So far, I haven't found one in my stash and didn't pay attention because this detail is new to me.
If they exist, some will turn up in this forum. Collectively, this group has just about everything ever made or hand-made...and that's just what they know they have. ;)
I can only guess that when there was no tab, there wouldn't be a need for Penn to jig up and drill a hole for it. Many things about Penn are head-scratching assumptions. We have to be cautious to keep assumptions from becoming facts.
They changed the level wind gear set in the later models. If you get today's nylon idler gear and put it in an early-model reel, the idler gear will mesh without binding but will wear more quickly. It's not an exact match to the early drive gear.
I believe Penn recommended changing BOTH gears when using the latest idler gear in an early reel. I think I saw a warning about this on Penn's website several years ago when I was stocking up on level wind consumables.
That's one reason why I keep a supply of 60's-70's reels. If you use the reel and are satisfied with its performance, keep it alive. A 30 to 40lb fish on a 209 and a fairly fast rod is fun stuff.
I got into this rabbit-hole when I spotted the green 209. I had no plans to actually use it, it was a "collector" buy. But, yes, I'm pleasantly surprised at how nice of a reel it is, very smooth steel gears! Since the chrome swap isn't working out, I may just turn that donor 209 into a user.