The past few project reels I've bought I took a "spend a little more...get less trouble" approach. I'm not sure that's working out for me. Like my brother said..."you pay $50 for a $20 reel"...HA HA!! :D My latest purchase is a perfect example. I bought a 720z on the big site that was advertised as serviced and ready to fish. Upon arrival I opened it up and it looked fresh inside...new Penn blue grease everywhere. I started to spool 'er up and noticed a clunk in the handle...felt like a bad gear tooth. wiped some of that new grease off the main and found a nice crack! Hmm...:-\...contacted seller and he is sending a new gear...so I guess I get to work on this one after all! ::)
Unfortunately, Mike --
With how clean the interior of that reel is, and the amount of new Penn Blue -- and the fact that he had a spare main gear -- leads me to the fact that either he was the culprit trying to pass off a crippled reel -- or someone passed it off to him -- and he did not go any further except to turn it -- hoping that the new buyer would not be as knowledgeable as you -- or figured they did it after fishing it for awhile.
If it was all black and greasy inside, and needing servicing -- the crack could be missed -- but that is not the case.
No way to miss that crack -- I wonder what caused a crack like that?
I think the fortunate thing in all of this, is -- that he was able to put his hands on a gear, and willing to ship it to you.
Thanks for sharing...
Best,
Fred
That's 2 ive seen broken like that..
Quote from: foakes on March 20, 2017, 02:48:01 PM
I wonder what caused a crack like that?
That's the same thing I was wondering. I wasn't ever expecting to see a busted main gear on a little reel like this, but who knows, with it being so old. After I disassembled the reel...the plot thickened! It also has a broken click tongue, and a cracked drag knob! I already fixed the cracked knob with a little super glue and pressure. I'm ordering the click tongue, a pinion bearing lock screw, dog spring, and a drag kit from Scott's, it only comes to about $10-$15, and the reel will be dead on right when I get done. 8)
Wow, Mike, that's unfortunate! I've worked on a lot of reels over the years and have never come across a cracked steel main gear. The only broken main gears I have found were pot metal variations and they usually consist of just broken teeth. Exposure to ammonia, though, can, and will eventually cause weakness and cracking in yellow metals, even if they have some type of plating. I wonder if the gear portion cold shrank and the shaft heat expanded to instigate it? Must have been a weak spot in the disc right there. :o Plastic parts and drag knobs, especially the types of plastic used in the old Penn spinners have a tendency to crack with age and UV exposure. Seems like some types of plastic are worse than others. :(
Quote from: Midway Tommy on March 20, 2017, 06:32:10 PM
The only broken main gears I have found were pot metal variations and they usually consist of just broken teeth.
Same here Tommy. This gear appears to be aluminum...with a brass ratchet...and a steel post. The construction of this reel is actually very heavy considering it's intended use...it is robust for an ultralight.
almost makes me wonder if the gear was dropped at some point. Have a hard time believing normal use caused a crack like that.
I've actually never seen one cracked like that...usually it's the teeth.
Someone else said that's the 2nd one they've seen?
Flaw in the metal during manufacture, maybe?
First time for me, usually teeth give up first :-\
Glad to hear the seller was willing to set things right. Penn's from that era are definitely over-built in the best way and replacement parts aren't too hard to come by. Once you have all the parts in order it'll be a solid little reel. I can relate with a 430ss project reel I brought back from the scrap bucket. Add a greased carbontex drag washer and you'll be set.
Aloha,
Kyle
maybe the main gear shaft and bushings were frozen in the frame and the guy tied to pry it out by slipping a screw driver under the gear
-steve
I'm not sure what happened either...but I doubt if it was damaged in shipping. The seller had it wrapped in a ton of bubblewrap. It was wrapped better than I would have done...and I over wrap reels myself. I'm currently at my brother's place fishing...the fish are handing us our butts...HA! :D
P.S. My Flathead Special narrowed 250 fished great today. The double dogs clacking sounded really cool! 8)
!!NEWSFLASH!!
The new gear from the seller arrived while I was in Parkersburg wetting a line. I slapped it in place today and the reel feels really good. I experimented by using Ardent Reel Butter on the gear teeth instead of Penn blue. It's a thinner feeling grease that works very well on freshwater baitcasters so I figured it might be a good choice for these small spinning reels too. I like the feel so I believe I'll go ahead and button this kid up and spool some line on. 8)
I got the reel spooled up today and mounted on the rod. It's bronze color matches the rod wraps and accents perfectly. With a 10lb. fluoro leader/12lb. Nanofil she's a little overdressed for crappie but just right for trout and bass. I've found my crappie catch rates don't increase with lighter line anyway...especially in our usually stained spring waters. 8)
Nice setup, Mike --
And more importantly -- no weak issues -- ready to go...it is right.
Best,
Fred
Ardent Reel Butter grease is a great grease. It is expensive and hard to find in a large container.
Quote from: handi2 on March 29, 2017, 10:28:10 PM
Ardent Reel Butter grease is a great grease. It is expensive and hard to find in a large container.
I agree. I'm not sure how it performs in saltwater since I'm a freshwater guy. I fished the 720 yesterday...it performed great...smooth as silk. This big crappie even ripped off a little drag, it was a hoot!
Wow, Mo! Nice looking crappie!
Sid
It seems my 720z debacle continues...the darn crosswind block busted in two while fishing Sunday. Maybe this piece could have been cracked by whatever damaged the gear earlier, but I don't remember seeing any damage. There's even a closeup pic of it in post #12 on this thread. My question is...is this piece something that receives any heavy stress? Could I epoxy that block back together...or would that be a waste of time? ???
I like working on reels occasionally but that's a bummer when you redo it 4 times.
Someday it will be right. Good looking little reel.
Plastic and nylon parts get old and brittle after time. Petro based lube adds stress to them, too. A similar scenario happens on the Cardinal 6 & 7. They have a plastic or sometimes nylon, fitting that attaches the oscillation arm to the main shaft. They get old, tired and weak just like us fogies. If yours was old the damage (weakening) had probably already been done. You should get a lot of years out of a new replacement. Isn't someone making aftermarket aluminum ones, now? Mizmo might know.
Mike --
Try and catch Mo before she ships your order (probably too late, she is very swift).
Tommy is right -- Mo mentioned that someone was making aftermarket aluminum crosswind blocks for the 720.
If she doesn't have them yet -- I have you covered.
Best,
Fred
Quote from: Midway Tommy on August 15, 2017, 08:16:38 PM
Isn't someone making aftermarket aluminum ones, now? Mizmo might know.
Quote from: foakes on August 15, 2017, 08:25:38 PM
If she doesn't have them yet -- I have you covered.
Thanks fellas, I remembered that same conversation where Mo mentioned the aluminum blocks, so I had checked earlier and she does have some in stock. I'll be installing the new aluminum block, but was just curious to see if I could repair the old plastic one. I'll let ya know how it goes. 8)
I believe that nylon block was designed to break to save stress on the gear train.
I have one of Mo's aluminum blocks in my spare parts stash. Its very well made.
A brass main gear would have been nice in these...still nice little reel though..
I believe at the time Penn designed the early Spinfisher reels (great greenie era) Penn was using aluminum gears it all of it's reels. I have read reports that the later 700's used aluminum to save weight. These gears carried over into early 704's. I would prefer a bronze gear in lieu of brass.
Quote from: George6308 on August 15, 2017, 11:24:41 PM
I believe at the time Penn designed the early Spinfisher reels (great greenie era) Penn was using aluminum gears it all of it's reels. I have read reports that the later 700's used aluminum to save weight. These gears carried over into early 704's. I would prefer a bronze gear in lieu of brass.
Yep, bronze would definitely be a better choice. Brass is still better than aluminum.
Quote from: George6308 on August 15, 2017, 11:04:49 PM
I believe that nylon block was designed to break to save stress on the gear train.
I like that notion George. I can tell everyone it broke due to all the lunker fish I catch that were straining the gears! :D
On a serious note, there's not much sense in trying to epoxy that busted block. After cleaning off the grease, I can see there's just not enough surface area to hold epoxy. That block is a labyrinth of holes and channels. 8)
Bottom line both the 720 & 722 are great usable reels. I have even used my 722 in back bay salt water.
Got the new aluminum block from Scott's today, slapped it in there, and we're back in the saddle. Maybe its my imagination...but it seems like the reel cranks a little smoother now. At any rate, she'll be back on the water next time out. 8)
Quote from: mo65 on August 19, 2017, 09:56:12 PM
Maybe its my imagination...but it seems like the reel cranks a little smoother now. 8)
That is why drag washers are made out of nylon, delrin, asbestos, etc. -- and not metal against metal, Mike.
There is a very slight resistance -- even when greased -- with the plastic block. Not noticeable -- unless you are very aware of the mechanics of a properly working reel...as you are.
Best,
Fred
Yay! Ready to catch some nice fish!
Quote from: foakes on August 19, 2017, 10:18:04 PM
Quote from: mo65 on August 19, 2017, 09:56:12 PM
Maybe its my imagination...but it seems like the reel cranks a little smoother now. 8)
That is why drag washers are made out of nylon, delrin, asbestos, etc. -- and not metal against metal, Mike.
There is a very slight resistance -- even when greased -- with the plastic block. Not noticeable -- unless you are very aware of the mechanics of a properly working reel...as you are.
Best,
Fred
It will eventually become a little more noisy with metal against metal and you'll get a little more noticeable wear on the shaft and main gear. Besides cost, noise is why a lot of the manufacturer's backed away from all metal drive parts. Plus they created a link that would wear or break under stress before extensive damage was done.
So if someone came up with a 3D printer version in a poly material it would be better in the long run?
Isit just me, or are we pretty forgiving, when it comes to certain brand name fishing reels that are MOSTLY(but not 100 o/o) "overbuilt". Would there really be a dramatic cost/benifit ratio increase in using aluminium main gears vs. brass/bronze for Penn? I would think so, if they can still have sales steady, or increasing, based probably on a reputation of past engineering quality.
Then again, in the larger scope of things, whata ya gonna do? Companies gotta do what they can to remain competitive and, even to exist. I'm certainly glad Penn still exists , albeit, as part of a conglomerate. My 2 cents
Gfish
Yes, we are probably too forgiving when it comes to Penn. If something is screwed up they should be called out on it. I would prefer phosphor bronze over plastic and would prefer plastic over aluminum. The way it deteriorated, that part may have been made of ABS. UHMWPE would have been a better choice.
-steve
Unfortunately --
Design, sleekness, competitive price points, labor costs, and good looks -- all work together to define and drive the materials and engineering that go into any product.
Reels are no exception.
How many old school reels from the 50's through the 70's -- with oscillating gear/spool shaft arms, ever fail?
Personally, I have only had one oscillation arm system fail after working on thousands of these old quality spinners. This was a soft metal connecting block at the rear inside of a 265 Microlite with hardened beeswax grease inside.
These include Abu/Zebco Cardinals, DAM Quicks, various quality Penns, Alcedos, and many others.
When Daiwa came along with softer gears, less drive train parts -- and a sharper looking reel -- they took a big bite out of the world-wide market share. In those days, their labor and manufacturing costs were much less also.
Many reels came out to compete with this emerging new market of sharper looking and sleeker reels with metallic colors. In order to keep designs competitive -- plastics were used extensively. Drag knobs, connecting blocks, bail trip mechanisms, spools, etc...
To the point that we have in many cases -- more plastic parts in modern reels than metal.
Oscillation blocks made of plastic have always been a weak link in these 720's, many larger Mitchells, and many other reels.
As long as parts are available -- it is never a problem. However, that is another issue...
These failures have allowed me to buy many 720's and Mitchell's pretty cheaply over the years -- so I am grateful...
Just my opinions.
Best,
Fred
Just an idea: would the spray on Teflon coating for cookware give the aluminum cross wind block some added lubrication where it comes in contact with the main drive gear ?
Even the area on the main gear where the block rubs could also be coated.
Quote from: Midway Tommy on August 24, 2017, 06:01:33 PM
It will eventually become a little more noisy with metal against metal and you'll get a little more noticeable wear on the shaft and main gear. Besides cost, noise is why a lot of the manufacturer's backed away from all metal drive parts. Plus they created a link that would wear or break under stress before extensive damage was done.
It's been my experience that metal against metal always gets smoother and
less noisy with use.(properly lubed of coarse) With this in mind...examine the new yellow grease on that new main gear in the earlier photo. That blackening reminds me of polishing aluminum with Brasso. That very well may be the source of my newfound "smoothness". Who knows? I do agree about the plastic parts used to save major damage. The nylon gear in a levelwind is a prime example...it's saved many a finger.8)
This is drifting way, way off topic but there was a time when I was responsible for a bunch of floating paddlewheel pond aerators.
https://nanrongshanghai.en.ec21.com/Nanrong_Modernized_Paddle_Wheel_Aerator--3534081_9521303.html (https://nanrongshanghai.en.ec21.com/Nanrong_Modernized_Paddle_Wheel_Aerator--3534081_9521303.html)
A gear box turned one inch stainless steel shafts and the shafts were supported horizontally by a plastic bearing block. Running 24/7 for a few years the shaft would wear down where it was supported by and rubbing on the plastic block and the shaft would eventually brake in half at that spot. The plastic block would hardly be worn at all and you could go through several shafts before the plastic bearing block had to be replaced. Go figure.
-steve
Quote from: mo65 on August 25, 2017, 06:43:11 PM
Quote from: Midway Tommy on August 24, 2017, 06:01:33 PM
It will eventually become a little more noisy with metal against metal and you'll get a little more noticeable wear on the shaft and main gear. Besides cost, noise is why a lot of the manufacturer's backed away from all metal drive parts. Plus they created a link that would wear or break under stress before extensive damage was done.
It's been my experience that metal against metal always gets smoother and less noisy with use.(properly lubed of coarse) With this in mind...examine the new yellow grease on that new main gear in the earlier photo. That blackening reminds me of polishing aluminum with Brasso. That very well may be the source of my newfound "smoothness". Who knows? I do agree about the plastic parts used to save major damage. The nylon gear in a levelwind is a prime example...it's saved many a finger.8)
Maintenance and lubrication are key to keeping metal against metal smooth and quite. Without it metal filings begin, ridges and grooves appear, sloppiness develops and noise becomes noticeable. Like you said, Mike, lubrication is the key. Too bad a good number of fishermen fail in that regard.
Quote from: Midway Tommy on August 25, 2017, 08:30:43 PM
Lubrication is the key. Too bad a good number of fishermen fail in that regard.
Indeed...and I have the hardest time imagining
not keeping up maintenance...because my "training" was for 25 years my each and every work day started by oiling the presses. It's burned into my head, moving parts need lubrication. ;)
Good points fishin gents, plastic stragically located, can save some physical & mechanical damage and used reels are avalible to us at a pretty good price, 'cause some plastic/nylon/crappy metal part broke and the original owner couldn't or wouldn't fix it.
Now-a-days, I got at least one back-up for all the reel classes I use. Not so, years ago, when I had less money. And what about discontinued garbage parts that break on you? Buy another reel if you love fishin it?
For me it's not alota fun to order new parts(if avalible), probably 'cause I'm such a novice at it. Ah well, gonna keep workin it, 'till I get it down...
Gfish
i made the crosswind block for a friend who wanted to beef up his reel he said plastic one break therefore he ask me to make it out of alunimum plus you cant find the plastic one any more
Welcome aboard, FT —
Show us a photo of your crosswind block, if possible.
This is about all these 720 reels ever needed.
The problem with plastic, or nylon — yes, it does wear and break — but fairly often after 20 or 40 years of non-use, stored in the cold and heat — it just fails on its own sometimes by just disassembling and touching it.
And then there is what I call the "cold crank"...dried grease after 20 years, guy tries to crank the handle — won't move much — he tries harder until the brittle with age crosswind block just breaks in half. Just like trying to start an old engine without knowledge, new lubrication, and proper preparation. More damage is done in the first few seconds — then 100,000 miles of previous use.
Scott's has a machinist who make these A/M aluminum blocks for them. Are you the fellow who does this?
Best,
Fred
(//)yes i made these for a friend and some members from one of the groups i was a member on at fb then mo at scotts saw them and asked if i had any more so i sold her some but i lost my job where i was making them and only have a limited supply of them left
Very well done!
Best,
Fred
people talk about how plastic is good to have as a crosswind but all my other penn spinning reel use aluminum and brass as their crosswind and if you set your drag right then you should not have a problem damaging the reel when a four foot black tip shark hits the bait or lure as one of my friend caught using his 722 with the aluminum crosswind.
plus i think the plastic one were molded and i dont know how well the groove for the pin was made my aluminum ones were machined in maybe that why they are smoother than the plastic ones.
Nice job on those flytrooper!
Sal
Very well made part. Thank you making them available to us through Penn Parts.
Quote from: mo65 on August 25, 2017, 06:43:11 PM
Quote from: Midway Tommy on August 24, 2017, 06:01:33 PM
It will eventually become a little more noisy with metal against metal and you'll get a little more noticeable wear on the shaft and main gear. Besides cost, noise is why a lot of the manufacturer's backed away from all metal drive parts. Plus they created a link that would wear or break under stress before extensive damage was done.
It's been my experience that metal against metal always gets smoother and less noisy with use.(properly lubed of coarse) With this in mind...examine the new yellow grease on that new main gear in the earlier photo. That blackening reminds me of polishing aluminum with Brasso. That very well may be the source of my newfound "smoothness". Who knows? I do agree about the plastic parts used to save major damage. The nylon gear in a levelwind is a prime example...it's saved many a finger.8)
How the heck did you get your big Oscar Myers stuck in a level wind ?
Quote from: Rivverrat on April 28, 2018, 11:43:47 PM
Quote from: mo65 on August 25, 2017, 06:43:11 PM
Quote from: Midway Tommy on August 24, 2017, 06:01:33 PM
They created a link that would wear or break under stress before extensive damage was done.
The nylon gear in a levelwind is a prime example...it's saved many a finger.8)
How the heck did you get your big Oscar Myers stuck in a level wind ?
HA! I didn't say
my finger...I said
many fingers. My Dad used to say I had hands like a canned ham...Bahahaaaaa!!
On a serious note, that aluminum crosswind block has had a work out...it's probably caught 50-60 crappies the past week...and a few decent bass. The reel is noticeably smoother too, Flytrooper might be right about the machined vs molded.
i am glad they are working good for you when i made them originally my friend doug gave me his reel and i measured the plastic one and made one as close to the plastic one as i could then i fine tune it and made sure each one i made was as smooth as the first one
Does anyone have one of these aluminum crosswind blocks to spare? Please PM me if you do.
Mike
the funny thing is that everybody who i have sold the aluminum block to says the reel is much smoother now than before
Mo,
Have you had any problems with your handle hitting the bail arm on your 720z? I don't know if the bail arm on the older blue 720's (what I own) is any different from the 720z that you own, but my handle and bail arm occasionally hit each other. It seems to happen pretty randomly. I might make fifty casts without a problem, and then for no rhyme or reason the handle and bail arm might hit each other a few times before not doing it again for awhile. Although it seems to be happening more frequently of late, and it seems to only happen shortly after the bail is closed.
(https://i.imgur.com/RuX9I8Z.jpg)
Do you have the washer between the reel and the handle? Early 720 & 720Z no difference in parts. Is the bail arm bent?
I have two 720's and two 722's none have this problem.
Quote from: Jenx on June 02, 2018, 06:32:21 PM
Mo,
Have you had any problems with your handle hitting the bail arm on your 720z?
YES, I had this exact problem. Like George said...add a washer. 8)
Hi Andy —
George and Mike are correct — just need a spacer washer between the crank and crank axle.
Some of the 720, 722, and all of the Z's had a thick chrome cover cap spacer — it protected the the crank axle somewhat from intrusion, plus gave the reel a more finished appearance.
Look around your bench, or box it came in — you might have it, and not know it.
If you need one for a better look and function, just let me know, and I will send one out at N/C.
From here, your crank, bail, and bail lever arm all look straight and not bent.
Best,
Fred
Thanks for the replies. It looks like a missing spacer is the problem.
Foakes, I'm not putting it past myself that could have lost a piece, but I don't recognize that part, and I'm pretty sure it never came with it. I will send you a PM.
Thanks again.
PS: I have been happy with this reel so far. I have made hundreds of casts with it, and I have only had two wind knots with my braid. It's true that it's not as braid friendly as modern reels, but it's nowhere near as bad as some of the reports claimed it would be. It definitely seems to help to have it intentionally underspooled. I found this out on accident after a seal stole a bunch of my line. I haven't had a wind knot since.
It will be in Monday's mail, Andy. N/C.
Got your address, thanks!
Best,
Fred
Hey folks,
I was thumbing through some video clips from this summer and I noticed I had a lot of catches on the 720z. I picked out a few good ones and made a short video of the ol' Bronze Bomber in action! 8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFoR1nRA5NM
I enjoyed the video, thanks for that!
Nice job on that video. High quality. What kind of equipment did you use? Dominick
I just saw your video. Nice work.
A new job cut my fishing season short last year, but I managed to still give my 720 a good surf fishing trial from spring until mid summer.
I wanted to see how she held up to the surf abuse, so I started keeping track of everything I caught with her.
Final tally was:
Surfperch: 107, Halibut: 1, YF Croaker: 28, Corbina: 1, Halfmoon: 1, Wrasse: 2, Calico bass: 1, Stingray: 1, Kelp fish: 1, barracuda: 1
The biggest fish were in the two pound range, and all were caught using 20lb braid with an 8lb mono leader.
A couple of observations:
Casting braid from an elevated location with this reel, the jetty or a pier for example, can be a definite wind-knot nightmare. However, casting braid while standing on the shore was not a problem for me.
I was very pleased with how this reel held up. I usually stand in the surf about mid thigh, and my gear gets regularly splashed by all the waves hitting me. About half way through the season I decided to break down my reel for cleaning after it went for an accidental swim, and I was pleased with how well the insides looked despite the abuse I put it through. The one week spot was the bail spring which showed the most signs of corrosion.
Overall I was very happy with this reel, and while my modern reels will still be used for most of my fishing, the 720 is now my go to reel for any fishing session that I know will involve me getting wet. The ease of maintenance is hard to beat.
I'm still fishing this reel very hard. It's not the stress of the fish being caught...it's the constant casting from daylight 'til dark. This time the bail spring busted, not surprising, considering the constant banging. I guess I should be using a more modern design with a bail that can be closed manually, but this little reel just feels great in hand casting jigs. The new spring is on order from Mystic...enjoy the R&R little guy...because you're going right back into combat! 8)
Quote from: mo65 on April 19, 2019, 04:53:42 PM
This time the bail spring busted...
...the new spring is on order from Mystic...
MO-meister!
Busted bail spring! Great news, that means you are fishing!!!
I've replaced the bail spring on my Mitchel 308 - FIVE TIMES!!! I've owned that reel since age 14 - and use it every summer in the high Sierra.
I have 10 extra springs ready for replacement, when needed!!!! Recommend you order more.
Love your video's!!! Great work.
Wayne
Nice video Mike, do you fish mollyducca all the time, thanks again cheers Don.
Quote from: Donnyboat on April 19, 2019, 10:23:20 PM
Nice video Mike, do you fish mollyducca all the time, thanks again cheers Don.
You got me Don...I had to google "mollyducca"...it's an Aussie slang term for left handed. They spelled it mollydooker. Around here, a right handed person reels a spinner with their left hand. Lots of mollydookers in this neck of the woods...HA!!! Glad you liked the vid, and cheers back atcha!
Quote from: Dominick on October 22, 2018, 05:08:55 PM
Nice job on that video. High quality. What kind of equipment did you use? Dominick
I use the same Olympus TG-3 that I photograph reels with. It makes great video...does better in low light than a GoPro.
Quote from: El Pescador on April 19, 2019, 06:22:25 PM
Love your videos!!! Great work.
Thanks Wayne! I ordered an extra spring, as I just can't seem to retire that 720.
New bail spring installed...dab of fresh grease added to main...and a brand spankin' new handle knob. The color match is perfect! 8)
Mo ,
Just curious ,how do you like the new knob, I've been thinking about one of those on my little 430ss..
:)
PJ
Quote from: Puddle Jumper on May 13, 2019, 10:10:21 PM
Mo ,
Just curious, how do you like the new knob, I've been thinking about one of those on my little 430ss.
Those knobs rock...perfect size for the 720z or 430ss. 8)
Thank you Sir,
I like the looks of them but wasn't sure if they would feel to big,,,
tight lines my friend..
;)
PJ
Quote from: Puddle Jumper on May 14, 2019, 11:13:09 AM
I like the looks of them but wasn't sure if they would feel to big,,,
That picture I posted kind of makes it look big...it's the angle I guess. Here's the same handle on a Mitch 408. It's bigger than stock, but that's the whole point, more to get a hold on.
hey that looks great, and i have several 408's (a favorite reel) and some of those knobs i bought for Jiggy S intents but thought too small for that! That knob on the 720 looks perfect also.