Hi guys first post, related to my first avet. I picked up an sx raptor, and to put things succinctly if I hold the spool with my thumb, to negate the inherent back play in the anti-reverse there is a good bit of play in the handle exactly like what is demonstrated in this video with this person's lx raptor ( the first reel in the video ). Is this normal for the raptor series of reels? I haven't had any issues with the reel otherwise and if this is something to be expected than I have no problem with it. I just want to be sure that I shouldn't be getting in touch with avet for a fix.
Link to said video: http://youtu.be/Crg40BqI9O4
Just wanted to say thanks in advance for anything in the future. Life long fisherman, and an Alan Tani lurker for years.
It doesn't have an infinite anti reverse so that yes, there's a little back play. My SX Raptor is more like the 2nd reel with less back play than the first one. My Saltiga 40ld2 is like the one in the video too. Free spool is at least twice as good as an Avet, or any other lever drag and most star drags too!
Welcome aboard, or should I say... out of the shadows and into the light? :)
Avers are not my speciality, but I seem to recall that these models come without an ARB bearing (newer SX schematic suggests the same), so some handle back play is expected. This occurs as the ratchet drives backwards until the dog solidly engages the tooth. The number of teeth then determine the amount of backplay. Antireverse dog (s) typically provide a solid, strong, antireverse system less prone to failures due to wear and/or salt/debris intrusion that can occur with Antireverse bearings. Of course this is just a generalization, and doesn'the always hold true for every model.
This seems completely normal to me.
You may want a second opinion from one of the Avet guys.
My jx raptor does that too. Its normal some my have more or less backplay.
My reaction is that the backward movement on the handle is not unusual for "older reels" without ARB. I have no experience on Avets though. In some reels you even have unevenly spaced anti reverse teeth with the result that depending where you start the reverse turn from, it sometimes moves back further then others.
The newest Avet MXs -- and I assume the SX, JX and LX reels -- have a different dog and ratchet. The ratchet has more teeth so there is a little less back play. They also have something else that we repair guys will appreciate: There are two small hoes in the frame behind the pinion bearing so you can push the bearing out. I've been drilling holes in extreme cases in the past but will no longer need to. While I'm here: The clicker has been changed as well.
So out of curiosity I cracked into the reel to check out its guts and found that the pinion gear is jammed so tightly into the pinion bearing that they can't be separated and the pinion bearing itself is nearly impossible to remove from the frame. I was able to separate the the death grip the frame had on the bearing and found no signs of corrosion. The reel has only been out twice, and shouldn't be expected anyway. Seems like poor machining tolerances in my specimen, and after removing the pinion bearing I can't for the life of me get it to seat properly in the frame. Back to avet it goes.
As an aside to this I really love the reel, I just can't stand fishing with reels that are difficult for me to work on myself as I love working on and maintaining my own gear. If it comes back to me with these problems remedied no harm no foul and will continue to adore the sx raptor. It is a little tank and was able to land some pretty impressive fish with it in its two days of service.
Quote from: Kev on May 15, 2016, 12:37:44 AM
So out of curiosity I cracked into the reel to check out its guts and found that the pinion gear is jammed so tightly into the pinion bearing that they can't be separated and the pinion bearing itself is nearly impossible to remove from the frame. I was able to separate the the death grip the frame had on the bearing and found no signs of corrosion. The reel has only been out twice, and shouldn't be expected anyway. Seems like poor machining tolerances in my specimen, and after removing the pinion bearing I can't for the life of me get it to seat properly in the frame. Back to avet it goes.
Tight tolerances in the bearing fit is a good thing, loose and bearing can spin causing wear.
Lightly grease bearing OD use a deep socket to push tje bearong in place, lightly grease pinion and snap it in place.
I understand that tight tolerances are desirable, but it's almost as if I would need a bearing press to remove the pinion gear from the pinion bearing which seems a little excessive to me. Is this normal?
Mine are all snug. When I get home this evening I will post photos of the tools I use to pull pinion bearings.
Hi Kev, I've worked with a few Avets including a few of mine. I can concur that the backplay is normal for reels which have only mechanical AR instead of an AR bearing or roller clutch.
The pinion bearing is sometimes tricky to get out, mine doesn't have holes to push it out so I use a modified precision flat head with it's tip bent 90 degrees and sharpened at the tip. I pry it out bit by bit alternating the opposite sides. When I first serviced my MXJ I didn't have the tool couldn't get it out, 2nd time I took it out easily. And yes it is a bit snug to snap back in, need a socket and light tapping :)
Thanks for the replies guys. How do you go about removing the pinion gear from the pinion bearing? I managed to damage mine a bit trying to separate the two which is mostly why it is going back to avet for a tune up.
Pull the bearing with the gear, support the bearing and drive the pinion out with a punch.
Pinion bearing removal tool.
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/IGFA19Keta/Reels/bearingpuller.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IGFA19Keta/media/Reels/bearingpuller.jpg.html)
If you have a common socket set find a socket that fits it just right. Set it in the socket and CAREFULLY tap the pinion gear out using something that will not ruin the pinion gear. Another socket or nut driver works well.
If using homemade pullers, and penetrants, and heat/cold applications fails you. You could buy an expensive hammer-type bearing puller, or just cut it out (carefully) with a dremel.
I've had simipar problems with bearings stuck in JVARIANCE plates. I resorted to cutting it out, and lightly sanded the pocket before reinstalling a new one. Be carefull here though. You don't want to damage the plate.
Wow ok. I'm new to avet and have never really seen reel parts that could be considered friction fit. Mostly held in place with retaining clips, plates/screws and what not. This little avet gave me more frustration than I could have expected that could have been easily avoided with a little research. I got the reel direct from avet and didn't receive the dvd that comes with it? So I was just winging it not that I could have known if the dvd would have been any help. Appreciate the insight guys apparently the servicing videos that I have seen where the guy pulls the pinion gear with a q-tip are a bit out dated as this is what I was expecting.
IMHO,
Play back = lower tolerances = bigger allowance.
My HX have the same sort of play back and I'm happy to live with it.
With a bit of play back mean the reel will still work okay when the gear is slightly wear out.
High end Daiwa & Shimano(especially Daiwa) use very precise gear, once overload they are goner.
ARB bearing are only good for small reel and tends to have issue with engine vibration.
Hey Kev, it only occurred to me that the 'play' being tested while holding the spool that way in the video is actually the play in the gearing mechanism. This play is not as much as the play in the handle due to the ratchet anti reverse system
Yeah that is what I was thinking. It's been replaced by my Talica 8 for the time being. As soon as I get it to avet and back I'll just bring them both :-)
Talica's are fine strong reels.
I, we, use heat to expand the aluminum frame, side plates, parts, and such so the bearings will come right out.
It really helps and works every time. A regular heat gun is what I use.
For example to get a bearing out of an International or Tiagra side plate the outside is heated and then the plate is slapped down on the table top. The bearing falls right out.
In your case the handle side plate can be heated on the outside where the pinion bearing goes and it will go in easily.
The DVD would not help you.
To get the pinion gear out of the bearing find a deep socket that the bearing will sit on. Then tap the gear out with another implement. I use the pin punches.
This week I restored an Atlas Kona 400 that a diver found underwater. It hadn't been down too long as there was no marine growth. One half of the reel was buried in the sand. The discolored frame still shows the buried marks.
All bearings came out using penetration oil, heat gun, and a little tap. The pinion bearing and pinion gear were stuck as yours was.
The reel is an Avet clone.
Thanks for the advice =). I love my talica and it's holding up really well for the beating I've given it. 47lb cobia on it yesterday, and a 40lb kingfish and 22lb blackfin tuna last week. I've got some carbontex coming to mess around making a woven carbon drag disc for it instead of shimano's fuzzy carbon yarn thing they've got going on, which is holding up remarkably well I might add.
(http://i.imgur.com/YtsY0x1.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/daV6joC.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Y2HVoJV.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/aUdlkQJ.jpg)
Nice catches!!!!!