So after building my 12/0 and adding Adams drag upgrade--- I managed to fractured a black aluminum spool and bent the reel seat... I'm guessing the drag pressure was too much for the brass cross bars and it flexed which in turn caused the spool to bind up which resulted in hardware failure.. we were testing the maximum drag and the scale read 75-80ish before the reel failed (most likely due to frame flex and play). Would anyone know where i could purchase a replacement for a reasonable price? and does anyone make stainless steel posts for a 12/0? the brass ones aren't gonna cut it on this monster.... ;D ;D ;D ;DI have Adam's drag upgrade, a steel 12/0 gear, double dogged with two custom heat treated 1095 High Carbon steel dogs, a Cortez Conversions stainless sleeve and one of Adam's shark arms for my handle ( handle is not yet fully assembled i plan on attaching one of Alan's large knob. Constructive criticism is welcome :).
who is strong enough to fish that critter at anywhere near those drag numbers?
The Boat ;D ;D ;D I do not plan on pushing it past 50ibs of drag. We were just trying to test to the point of failure for personal research and we found it. 80ibs.... now i need a new spool and reel seat... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Wow,
Never heard of anyone busting an aluminum spool.
20 to 30 lbs is more than enough.
Mystic has those parts for about $100.
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/29L-116.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/29L-116.aspx)
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackles old online store over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Wow!
So I gotta ask... How'd my gear sleeve look after all that?? ;D
The sleeve held up but slight gouging into the stainless where it makes contact with the gear and the set of dogs i made out of 1095 began to gouge into the sleeve( possibly due to being much harder than the stainless)... I will fish it till it gives out and when it gives out I will order another! Your stainless sleeves are much more superior to the stock brass which we destroyed before I had put your stainless ;D.
The spool cracked down the center line, looked like a stress fracture and ran from each side down to the peg that protrudes from the center of the spool. I even attempted to TIG weld the fracture to closed it but the metal just began bubbling and it wasn't worth the time.. I believe it would have held up with minor scraping into the brass insert within the gear had the flame not flexed under the pressure the gear wouldn't have been able to shift and create a friction point on the sleeve. I took another look at the reel before leaving the house this morning and noticed that my bridge is also slightly bent along with two of the bridge screws on one side.... Obviously this setup would not be fished at anything over 50ibs. drag due to safety reasons and it would be nearly impossible to operate the reel at such high pressure without a failure.
Also Tom, I noticed you have a Senator 9/0 frame on your website, I think i asked you about whether or not you had planned to continue the frames and make them for the larger model Senators a while ago via email?
I'm not sure how you did your test, I know it isn't easy getting it to 80#, I actually couldn't do it and I like to think I'm pretty tough.
I'm thinking something else got jammed in that reel to snap that spool.
Usually the ears on those washers go before the spool does.
Also, I have heard of aluminum spools failing before, but not as you have described.
The aluminum spool will usually spin on its shaft when it fails.
Anything could happen I guess :-\
Sal
Quote from: JnM Fishing on January 29, 2018, 04:44:10 PM
The sleeve held up but slight gouging into the stainless where it makes contact with the gear and the set of dogs i made out of 1095 began to gouge into the sleeve( possibly due to being much harder than the stainless)... I will fish it till it gives out and when it gives out I will order another! Your stainless sleeves are much more superior to the stock brass which we destroyed before I had put your stainless ;D.
The spool cracked down the center line, looked like a stress fracture and ran from each side down to the peg that protrudes from the center of the spool. I even attempted to TIG weld the fracture to closed it but the metal just began bubbling and it wasn't worth the time.. I believe it would have held up with minor scraping into the brass insert within the gear had the flame not flexed under the pressure the gear wouldn't have been able to shift and create a friction point on the sleeve. I took another look at the reel before leaving the house this morning and noticed that my bridge is also slightly bent along with two of the bridge screws on one side.... Obviously this setup would not be fished at anything over 50ibs. drag due to safety reasons and it would be nearly impossible to operate the reel at such high pressure without a failure.
Also Tom, I noticed you have a Senator 9/0 frame on your website, I think i asked you about whether or not you had planned to continue the frames and make them for the larger model Senators a while ago via email?
Yes, there are big plans for the big Senators. We will be releasing a project called the chairmen. This project includes the 10/0 thru the monster 16/0!
We used a wench on the front of my friend's truck and began to slowly pull with the line tied to the scale and the scale attached to the wench on the opposite side,( probably not the best thing but i wanted to test to the point of failure just to know how far the materials would go before breaking). I purchased a drag upgrade from Adam Fournier at Motive-Fab. I made some modifications to his already amazing upgrade using a dremel and gave a slight surface abrasion to each of the metal spacer washers to add friction and then caked on the Cals.
The scale bottomed out at 75 and we heard a loud ping noise, but i was able to turn the drag a little more and decided to continue, then when we attempted to measure it again after turning the star ever so slightly we began the test and witnessed the foot flex downward on each side before one of the posts popped free from its screws and the frame had a slight crack running from the top of each side of the spool and terminating on each side at the steel peg in the center of the spool.
Quote from: Alto Mare on January 29, 2018, 04:51:55 PM
I'm not sure how you did your test, I know it isn't easy getting it to 80#, I actually couldn't do it and I like to think I'm pretty tough.
I'm thinking something else got jammed in that reel to snap that spool.
Usually the ears on those washers go before the spool does.
Also, I have heard of aluminum spools failing before, but not as you have described.
The aluminum spool will usually spin on its shaft when it fails.
Anything could happen I guess :-\
Sal
The clicker side of the spool shaft had loosened up and had a little play but i don't think it was able to spin, at least not by hand...
Interesting test and results. That failure event must have been a bit scary and exciting to witness. I have heard of 12/0 aluminum spool failures on locked down drags with 250-400lb mono from other local reel techs. Stand twist, usually resulting in spool rubbing/binding s somewhat common in comparison. I am curious how the reel was mounted when during your test. Were the harness lugs bearing any of the load? Was the reel fully spooled with mono? Did the line come off of the reel parrellel to the reel seat during the test? Was this a slow and gradual increase in pressure, or a sudden surge of power? It would be interesting to see the results of the same test with a bronze spool, and stainless posts. The thought that occurs to me is that a reel with a drag setting of say 40lb, can experience a much higher load when a sudden surge/spike in pressure occurs. Could be 30-100% higher depending on various factors.
Thanks for sharing your results.
John
Pictures???
Quote from: Cortez_Conversions on January 29, 2018, 05:06:17 PM
Quote from: JnM Fishing on January 29, 2018, 04:44:10 PM
The sleeve held up but slight gouging into the stainless where it makes contact with the gear and the set of dogs i made out of 1095 began to gouge into the sleeve( possibly due to being much harder than the stainless)... I will fish it till it gives out and when it gives out I will order another! Your stainless sleeves are much more superior to the stock brass which we destroyed before I had put your stainless ;D.
The spool cracked down the center line, looked like a stress fracture and ran from each side down to the peg that protrudes from the center of the spool. I even attempted to TIG weld the fracture to closed it but the metal just began bubbling and it wasn't worth the time.. I believe it would have held up with minor scraping into the brass insert within the gear had the flame not flexed under the pressure the gear wouldn't have been able to shift and create a friction point on the sleeve. I took another look at the reel before leaving the house this morning and noticed that my bridge is also slightly bent along with two of the bridge screws on one side.... Obviously this setup would not be fished at anything over 50ibs. drag due to safety reasons and it would be nearly impossible to operate the reel at such high pressure without a failure.
Also Tom, I noticed you have a Senator 9/0 frame on your website, I think i asked you about whether or not you had planned to continue the frames and make them for the larger model Senators a while ago via email?
Yes, there are big plans for the big Senators. We will be releasing a project called the chairmen. This project includes the 10/0 thru the monster 16/0!
When could we expect to see these available? I know one thing! when they become available I want to be on the top of the waiting list! Maybe some Aluminum side plates as well? Would make one hell of a reel!
Quote from: Decker on January 29, 2018, 05:17:23 PM
Pictures???
I have since last week attempted to TIG weld the spool back- It was a complete failure, I sheered off the screws of the post at the bottom rear, bent two bridge screws during the test, I am unsure how to post images on this forum.. I will take some photos when i get home, I do not however have the brass gear sleeve any longer it was tossed after testing and replaced with a stainless from Tom at CC, which survived the testing! The insert of the steel gear now has slight play.
Quote from: Alto Mare on January 29, 2018, 04:51:55 PM
I'm not sure how you did your test, I know it isn't easy getting it to 80#, I actually couldn't do it and I like to think I'm pretty tough.
It's amazing how hard it is to pull line from a reel under drag...the numbers just don't match up like you'd think. You are tugging with all your back and your partner says "OK...you just hit 25lbs." I'm 6'6" and Weigh 310 lbs...and it's still humbling. 8)
Quote from: mo65 on January 29, 2018, 05:29:37 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on January 29, 2018, 04:51:55 PM
I'm not sure how you did your test, I know it isn't easy getting it to 80#, I actually couldn't do it and I like to think I'm pretty tough.
It's amazing how hard it is to pull line from a reel under drag...the numbers just don't match up like you'd think. You are tugging with all your back and your partner says "OK...you just hit 25lbs." I'm 6'6" and Weigh 310 lbs...and it's still humbling. 8)
We had the rod 80-130 rod in a metal pipe that is submerged 4ft down in concrete( part of an old shed out back). The line and scale were connected to a winch on my friend's truck.. I would not attempt to fish that weight in any realistic fishing scenario. I don't believe it is safe to push it past 50 with or without a harness..
Im impressed. I had always figured the frame would be the first thing to give in the big senators, so this is the first I have seen of those kits being tested to max or failure. Extrapolating the numbers from the smaller kits, Id expect my drag kits for the big senators to top out somewhere around 90-100 lbs of drag.
When you take it apart, please send me pictures of the drag kit. Ill send you anything that needs replacing at no cost.
I am still amazed by this.
I don't know how you could get those numbers.
I tested these when Adam first made these available and could pick up an ammo can weighing in at 30lbs or so and it still slipped a little unless you buttoned it down.
I really don't see this reel being fit for anything but the scrap heap after torturing it to that level.
Do you mind posting some pics of the fractured a black aluminum spool and bent the reel seat? It would be nice to take a look at those.
Thanks,
Sal
Tom, I think it's safe to say your sleeve cannot be damaged by anyone actually holding the gear.....
Quote from: thorhammer on January 30, 2018, 02:02:00 PM
Tom, I think it's safe to say your sleeve cannot be damaged by anyone actually holding the gear.....
I'm sure of it, I want my sleeves to be the last one you'll ever need to buy.
When someone goes to this length in testing, there is a wealth of information to be had by everyone here. I would love to get my hands on the entire reel as most of the builders here would.
Tom
The Wreck of the Old 97 ;D
Quote from: Alto Mare on January 30, 2018, 10:45:51 AM
Do you mind posting some pics of the fractured a black aluminum spool and bent the reel seat? It would be nice to take a look at those.
Thanks,
Sal
I have the spool, but i had attempted to repair it via TIG welding on the inside of the spool, in an attempt to make it last a little longer but the spool was already structurally incapacitated. It has metal built up over where the crack was since i attempted to make repairs, the metal peg fell out and the spool has minor cracking near the shaft on the inside which i attempted to buff out in a last ditch effort to make it work but my attempts were futile ;D, other than attempting to weld everything is in its same condition following the test, I made modifications to Adams drag stack upgrade, slightly textured each metal washer to increase friction and Pressure. How does one go about putting pictures of this forum??
Quote from: Three se7ens on January 30, 2018, 05:48:14 AM
Im impressed. I had always figured the frame would be the first thing to give in the big senators, so this is the first I have seen of those kits being tested to max or failure. Extrapolating the numbers from the smaller kits, Id expect my drag kits for the big senators to top out somewhere around 90-100 lbs of drag.
When you take it apart, please send me pictures of the drag kit. Ill send you anything that needs replacing at no cost.
one of the drag washers at the bottom seems to have been dug into on the ears, most likely from pressure but other than that the stack doesn't seem to have anything wrong with it, now the frame and spool... those are toast ;D ;D ;D ;D. I believe that the frame began to give way and that caused flex which in turn applied force on each ends of the shaft and the aluminum wasn't able to handle the applied forces
Quote from: Cortez_Conversions on January 30, 2018, 02:10:15 PM
Quote from: thorhammer on January 30, 2018, 02:02:00 PM
Tom, I think it's safe to say your sleeve cannot be damaged by anyone actually holding the gear.....
I'm sure of it, I want my sleeves to be the last one you'll ever need to buy.
When someone goes to this length in testing, there is a wealth of information to be had by everyone here. I would love to get my hands on the entire reel as most of the builders here would.
Tom
Only thing that could make these reels better after Adam's drag upgrade and your sleeve is a metal frame and side plates... These Bakelite ones just don't hold up to the pressure they warp with the heat