Has anyone used them or seen good information on "GT Ice Cream" lures ?
Dave F.
Yeah,
Got one to see what all the fuss is about. It did what it was supposed to do, and attracted some fish, but did not strike me as anything special.
They make a couple variants, that follow the same concept. Rectangular cross section from the back to middle, and then tapering to a point to the nose. A chunk of internal weight toward the tail. Very easy to make one of your own in this style if you are so inclined.
They did not impress me too much overall, but have a niche for needlefish style imitations where you want a high speed retrieve with longer splashes as opposed to bloop bloop type stuff. If you have ever seen needlefish or ladyfish feeding or fleeing, you have seen this look.
By virtue of the flat bottom and pointy nose, you can work them fast without the plug spinning, and they don't have too much resistance , which is important if you are winding hard cast after cast. They are rigged assist hook style. The shape is also good for distance casting. One claim from the makers of this plug is that it will track well in wind chop, but I find this is pretty much true of any surface lure that can be worked fast.
There are times when what matters most is how fast a surface lure is moving. I have also found that the faster the lure is moving, the less that action and other details matter :)
Other candidates for the same niche would be some of the needle nose poppers, surface plugs designed for roosterfish, and my favorite, the classic Robert's Ranger/Whistler. There is room in my box for a couple sizes of Robert's plugs, but the GT Ice Cream is usually left behind.
I was mostly throwing surface lures like this as teaser support for fly fishermen to bring in jacks, roosterfish, dorado, etc. Have thrown stuff at GTs, but not the Ice Cream. Like all new style lures that work at least OK, there is a lot of hype at first. It takes more than a few years to figure out if a new lure is something special or just another lure.
If I was fishing in a new place and the locals strongly recommended them., I would take a couple.
If you are in the southern USA, they could be used for jacks, and maybe kingfish (mackerel). maybe sized to match the ballyhoo around? If you give it a shot, post your impressions.
My $0.02,
-J
Some options from top to bottom:
GT Ice cream
Robert's Whistler
(my own design) speed popper
The top lure in your pic is very popular down in South Africa, some are cast and many machined from a solid piece of PVC or similar material.
Indeed made for fast retrieve and they are favorite food of Yellowtail, especially some of the bigger models. ::)
Skipping and splashing is good, but sometimes the fish struggle to catch it, round the "rails" very slightly or use a heavier one to keep it tracking straighter and more on the water.
Would not surprise me if that Needle Nose plug originates from here.
Quote from: Cor on September 09, 2021, 06:13:29 AM
The top lure in your pic is very popular down in South Africa, some are cast and many machined from a solid piece of PVC or similar material.
Indeed made for fast retrieve and they are favorite food of Yellowtail, especially some of the bigger models. ::)
Skipping and splashing is good, but sometimes the fish struggle to catch it, round the "rails" very slightly or use a heavier one to keep it tracking straighter and more on the water.
Would not surprise me if that Needle Nose plug originates from here.
Ding Ding. Winner! The website for GT Ice Cream says that they originated in South Africa.
Interesting about the yellowtail.
I don't remember ever seeing a yellowtail chasing anything like a needlefish/ladyfish/ballyhoo around here. Plus we don't work the shore or flats much for YT. The hot surface lure for YT around here for decades has been the light "surface" iron , which can be ripped along the surface, but is generally worked just a bit under the surface with lots of kick. The Tady 45 is a standard.
What did chase my GT Ice cream with more enthusiasm were the small yellowfin and skipjack tuna. I suspect that it resembled the small to medium sized flying fish that are around in the summer to fall in the Sea of Cortez.
I don't want to sound too negative on this lure. I lost faith in it too quickly to give it a full chance. Maybe there were better ways to work it, or it might work better as a beach roosterfish plug -something that I don't do. But it does seem to me to be a bit more of a special purpose plug that needs to be fished in the right situatation.
I thought they, and Roberts Rangers, were used down in Cabo for Rooster fish too.
Quote from: jurelometer on September 09, 2021, 09:52:09 PM
Ding Ding. Winner! The website for GT Ice Cream says that they originated in South Africa.
Interesting about the yellowtail.
I don't remember ever seeing a yellowtail chasing anything like a needlefish/ladyfish/ballyhoo around here. Plus we don't work the shore or flats much for YT. The hot surface lure for YT around here for decades has been the light "surface" iron , which can be ripped along the surface, but is generally worked just a bit under the surface with lots of kick. The Tady 45 is a standard.
What did chase my GT Ice cream with more enthusiasm were the small yellowfin and skipjack tuna. I suspect that it resembled the small to medium sized flying fish that are around in the summer to fall in the Sea of Cortez.
I don't want to sound too negative on this lure. I lost faith in it too quickly to give it a full chance. Maybe there were better ways to work it, or it might work better as a beach roosterfish plug -something that I don't do. But it does seem to me to be a bit more of a special purpose plug that needs to be fished in the right situatation.
Yellowtail are fish that are generally very unpredictable, though once you've figured out what they want to eat (if anything LOL) then they will probably continue that behaviour for the day or hopefully some time. Science does not work very well with these creatures.
Up to around 2001 the weapon of choice for Yellowtail here was also an iron, often wound fast along the surface, depending on the fish's observed preference. During my youth, guys used to fish in a crouched position in an attempt to keep the rod tip as close to the water as possible and in that way keep the iron in the water as much as they could. Those irons were bigger and wider then what is used now and guys used a much slower retrieve. Now the surface plug has become the most used artificial lure for Yellowtail, the name or shape is not very important. What is important is that the lure you use is able to do what you want it too and for that you need to observe the fish behaviour at that time and then experiment to use the correct device. :D
What's a fast retrieve? I retrieve my lure in between 30 and 40 seconds on 100 yds cast to give you a guideline and will vary it subtly in between if fish are behind my lure.
Once a mate from another CA site sent me 3 Tady irons he guaranteed were the best Yellowtail killers. I took the smallest one in white with me as it looked like the most usable device. The others were just too big and heavy and wide bodied for me to have any faith. I fished alone that day and tried it a few time but it did not have the action I liked, nevertheless I kept it on hand as I needed to catch a fish to send the picture to my mate. In the afternoon I was still alone and started to see nice fish and tried the Tady. I found the fish were coming up to look at it but did not seem to have the inclination to take it. I then decided the only way this was going to work was to crank it on the surface. The next time some fish came up behind it I did just that and a large fish swallowed it at my feet. I landed the fish, took the photo, sent it to my mate and hung the lure on the wall in my Garage where it has remained since. It's actually White and Blue.
Nothing wrong with the lure, it's just that we generally seem to wind our lures much faster and large wide lures don't work well for that and the big one is just too heavy to cast.
If the fish are deep, they will often just not come up and eat a surface lure, then you need to use a deeper (sink it for 10 sec or much more depending on how deep your finder is showing them) iron or jig.
Photo of the Iron on my wall....
Dave, whatcha gonna use it for? Sounds like it would be killer on a blue run.
Cor, what Tady is that? It doesn't look like a 45 which is the standard Tady surface iron.
Sorry, my humble apologies, I presumed and did not look and don't really know those devices. >:( ;D ;D ;D
I now know.
You can see the one shows one days shore fishing damage.
Aha! The good 'ol Salas 6X. And that is a one of the irons/color combos that you will pretty much find in everyone's arsenal here in CA for YT. Pretty sure there is a clip of one "in action" on Alan's latest Cedros trip. It's interesting how the same species in different environments react differently, no doubt probably because they are used to feeding on different forage, that looks or behaves differently. - john
The Salas 6xJr and 6x, together with the Tady 4/0, are the standard yoyo irons. Drop down and crank fast. Repeat.
The Salas 7x is a surface iron with a fairly tight wiggle that can be cranked fairly fast. It was the go to surface iron for Yellowtail at Cedros a week ago when we were there. The Tady 45 has a wider S curve motion and spins if you crank too fast.
Quote from: Brewcrafter on September 10, 2021, 02:37:08 PM
Aha! The good 'ol Salas 6X. And that is a one of the irons/color combos that you will pretty much find in everyone's arsenal here in CA for YT. Pretty sure there is a clip of one "in action" on Alan's latest Cedros trip. It's interesting how the same species in different environments react differently, no doubt probably because they are used to feeding on different forage, that looks or behaves differently. - john
They do have different habits in different locations, even here within a 30 mile radius and boat fish are different in their habits to shore fish and so forth. Often we can tell from the behaviour that we are catching fish that have just arrived from somewhere by the way the hit the lure or fight. You find at one shore spot you have many shoals but you can't catch them, then you move 5 miles down the road and you catch 10! Even here many won't believe that.
I have caught many from beaches in < 2 ft of water, tell that to a guy used to fishing from a boat who regularly dropping a lure down 150 mt.
These creatures will never cease to excite me!
Hey Cor,
Yoyo irons are cast from a predominantly zinc alloy that is about 70% or so of the density of pure lead. The surface irons are cast from a much lighter aluminum alloy that seems to me to be much less dense than rolled aluminum stock, my guess is that it light because of porosity, but it could also be something in the alloy.
That Salas 6x weighs around six ounces. A surface iron of similar dimensions is going to weigh between 2.5 and 3 ounces (Mark probably knows the exact numbers :) ) While both look very similar, they are not interchangeable.
As Mark noted, the surf based roosterfish guys like those splashy high speed surface plugs. I suspect that this situation might be closer to your YT fishery. So they also lean toward the same type of lures. Have you ever tried the Robert's Ranger/Whistler/Bounder?
-J
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Quote from: jurelometer on September 10, 2021, 08:12:38 PM
Hey Cor,
Yoyo irons are cast from a predominantly zinc alloy that is about 70% or so of the density of pure lead. The surface irons are cast from a much lighter aluminum alloy that seems to me to be much less dense than rolled aluminum stock, my guess is that it light because of porosity, but it could also be something in the alloy.
That Salas 6x weighs around six ounces. A surface iron of similar dimensions is going to weigh between 2.5 and 3 ounces (Mark probably knows the exact numbers :) ) While both look very similar, they are not interchangeable.
As Mark noted, the surf based roosterfish guys like those splashy high speed surface plugs. I suspect that this situation might be closer to your YT fishery. So they also lean toward the same type of lures. Have you ever tried the Robert's Ranger/Whistler/Bounder?
-J
No sorry I am not familiar with those lures. For about 100 years Yellowtail anglers in Cape Town were a fairly close knit community with one guy making 90% of the Iron type lures cast from high tin content white metal l https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_metal (http://l%20 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_metal) Pure tin also works and has some benefits, but it is very soft and constantly bends in a way you dont want. Quite a number of guys made their own using plaster moulds and also designed their own shapes of lures. If the guy who designed his own found he had a successful lure, others begged borrowed or stole one from him and copied it ;D, or asked the lure maker to do it. When said lure maker passed on, he had a garage filled with 300 or more moulds for all kinds of lures named after the original owner. I never bothered to make my own until silicone and the knowledge became available to make them myself. This was after I retired and had some time on hand. These days more and more are made from Stainless steel and a laser cutter. The latter are far more durable, cheaper and work very well. So much for a bit of history.
The action of an Iron is affected by its shape, weight, weight distribution, size and weight of hooks and how they are attached. When making them from white metal some lead can be added to increase the weight and white metal can be bent as well. Adding 10% lead is too much as it also dulls the lure and makes it softer.
2 & 1/2 to 3 oz is a nice weight for a surface iron, I use between 2 & 4 oz but it depends largely on external factors.
I like to wind my iron in a way that it pops up on to the surface every now and then. Very many fish take the lure at precisely the moment when it breaks water.
Quote from: MarkT on September 10, 2021, 02:51:08 PM
The Salas 6xJr and 6x, together with the Tady 4/0, are the standard yoyo irons. Drop down and crank fast. Repeat.
The Salas 7x is a surface iron with a fairly tight wiggle that can be cranked fairly fast. It was the go to surface iron for Yellowtail at Cedros a week ago when we were there. The Tady 45 has a wider S curve motion and spins if you crank too fast.
We do the same here, drop the iron to the depth the fish are, and wind as fast as you are able to. Often the line goes slack when the fish takes it as he moves faster than the speed of the lure.
Quote from: thorhammer on September 10, 2021, 11:26:39 AM
Dave, whatcha gonna use it for? Sounds like it would be killer on a blue run.
I am going down to FL to visit my son. We will be pier fishing and I have heard they really produce on Bonito.
Dave F.
Hi Dave,
Here our average size of Bonita is about 4 - 8 lb.
We generally use a small, wide, shiny iron type lure retrieved fairly slowly if compared with YT.
They are voracious feeders and often take anything, including surface lures.
Enjoy your trip and good luck.
Interesting video from Japan on shore fishing for yellowtail. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NANpAq-B0ds
got a big GT (https://dkretzmann.blogspot.com/2019/12/the-triple-luck-gt.html) in Australia on one..
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/--0ZSaoQycPg/Xe8iJcGPNRI/AAAAAAAAB9E/ohqx4SsnibMwEPGmKF_yqh0eWy0zHwaUgCEwYBhgL/s640/gt.jpg)
basically like to fish these same way as the old Creek Chub Striper Strike, as slowly as possible while keeping it at the surface. I've seldom done well with either lure retrieved fast, though there are fish that like it fast, don't have much experience with those though.
thought it might work on pike here in CO, so far no go..
Quote from: DougK on October 06, 2021, 11:38:11 PM
got a big GT (https://dkretzmann.blogspot.com/2019/12/the-triple-luck-gt.html) in Australia on one..
basically like to fish these same way as the old Creek Chub Striper Strike, as slowly as possible while keeping it at the surface. I've seldom done well with either lure retrieved fast, though there are fish that like it fast, don't have much experience with those though.
thought it might work on pike here in CO, so far no go..
Nice fish Doug!
My experience is that what GT want will vary based on the spot, the current and the prey. If they are spooky, a lure that makes less disturbance fished slowly might help, but it but it seems that the consensus for the GT ice cream is to fish it fast. For slower stop and go retrieves, a cup faced popper would be the standard recommendation.
Despite their reputation, GTs can be quite the scaredy-cats, especially in calmer and shallower waters. Even an unweighted fly landing too close can freak out a jumbo GT on the flats.
As I noted before, I personally did not find the action of the GT ice cream that compelling at lower speeds. I would be surprised if it worked well on ambush predators like pike. And no way a pike is capable of running down an ice cream at the speed where the action starts to shine. Just my opinion, and the fish get the deciding vote.
-J
I bought one of those for my son because I'm a sucker. He trolls for papio (GT under ten pounds). He wasn't impressed and says he catches best with a popper trolled very slowly. His idea of slow still has the popper splashing and doing occasional sommersaults. I tell him that is bad form... almost as bad as holding a spinning reel upside down. He tells me to relax because there is nobody to see him. He catches a LOT more than I do.
Here, the norm for whipping (repetitive casting) for papio is to use a bubble float for weight and light grub, then crank as fast as you can