Hi Guys,
Started a project over the winter to upgrade my Penn 112H. I have always liked the form factor of the 112 but I felt I needed more drag when I use it for striper fishing in the Atlantic Ocean.
First order of business was to order up a stainless gear sleeve and a smooth drag set. Went together fine, no issues. Not being able to stop there (you know the feeling) I added a Tiburon frame and a Pro Challenger gear set. Very fast. That seemed to work well too. I spooled up Power Pro and waited for Spring.
I'm not sure Spring ever arrived here in the North East, but I went fishing anyway. I was trolling a stretch 25, but I couldn't retrieve line. The reel seemed to slip the gearing somehow. Fine under just hand tension, but with any real force the handle just slipped.
After I took it home I tore it down several times looking for issues, but couldn't find any. I wrote to Maureen at Mystic Parts where I had bought many of the components. She is very helpful. She remembered an issue with a change in the pinion gears, but the real issue may be the spool. The spool that came with my reel is not the typical chrome over bronze. It might be aluminum. Maybe some knows if this is an original spool? Here's a picture:
(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/19447_10_05_20_11_05_47_326921310.jpeg)
It is marked 112H on the side. On this the spool shaft is flush with the side of the spool, as shown here:
(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/19447_10_05_20_11_06_43_326971785.jpeg)
Here is the new spool I bought which resolved the issue for me. The shaft on this new one projects out from the side of the spool. My preliminary thought is that this fixed my problem.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/19447_10_05_20_11_06_05_326951748.jpeg)
If anyone has any ideas on this, love to hear them.
Of course, I have to show the finished reel:
(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/19447_10_05_20_11_06_16_32696664.jpeg)
Hopefully I'll soon have a striper to show off with the reel!
-martin
Are you sure the anti reverse pawl/dog is installed the correct way?
Edit: The first pic looks like a aftermarket spool from Tiburon.
Don't go by the number markings on the spool they are just code numbers for Penn. A spool marked 112H is actually a spool for a 190 reel but will fit a Longbeach 65 too. Some 112H's came with a chrome spool & later ones came with an aluminum spool. Just make sure that the braided line doesn't slip on the spool. Now with that put aside you should have gone to the Welcome section first & introduce yourself & tell us a little about yourself and where and how you like to fish. Where are you from etc.? Rudy
Quote from: SoCalAngler on May 10, 2020, 07:17:27 PM
Are you sure the anti reverse pawl/dog is installed the correct way?
Edit: The first pic looks like a aftermarket spool from Tiburon.
Tiburon spools do not have line tie pegs and are not normally marked with any numbers. That is a Penn OEM spool.
Hi Guys,
I did go to the welcome forum to post some background. Sorry I forgot.
Appreciate the input. There is really only one way the anti-reverse can be installed, otherwise the spring has nowhere to sit.
I did think it was an original spool. If that is the case, a 112H like the one I have may have an issue with the Pro Challenger gear set.
-martin
Might check to see if the braid is slipping on the spool, is it tied onto the post on the spool?. Does it make any kind of chattering sound when it slips?
Hi Martin, the fellows are giving you some good pointer here, another part you can take into consideration, is the drag washer, the old original washer if oiled to much will not give much resistance, they should be dry, but if you have carbon fibre washers, they work best with a little bit of teflon grease on them, or cal`s grease, that keeps them cool, also give you a smooth start up on the drag, & make sure you tie the braid to the spool so it does not slip, also there is a fine line between not enough metal washers under the star, or to many. good luck cheers Don.
I had mono-filament backing on the spool, always do that. So I don't believe there was any slippage. I could replicate the problem on the bench when I held the spool very tightly in my hand. Unless you gripped the spool very hard the reel worked fine.
Once I received the new spool I ordered from Mystic, problem solved. Nothing else was changed.
Fished it the day after, this time with a stretch 35, and no problems. No fish either, but that's off topic.
If there's consensus that my first spool was OEM, then there may be a compatibility issue with the Pro Challenger gear set for the 112H. Love the gear set, BTW. Fast as heck and very smooth.
Has anyone else reported an issue like I had with the OEM spool and Pro Challenger gearing? I did a search but I didn't see anything.
Appreciate all the input. Great knowledge set in this community.
-martin
Sounds to me like the spool shaft was possibly slipping inside the spool. Seen it happen on a few other spools, so don't rule that out. I highly doubt the gear set was at fault
Hi,
Good suggestion, I hadn't thought to check that. I held the spool shaft with pliers, it's solid as a rock. No slippage.
I don't think there is anything wrong with the Pro Challenger gear set, its works fine with the new spool. Just may not be compatible with some OEM Penn spools. Penn made changes in manufacturing from time to time that affected newer parts. This may be one of those times.
If anyone else has a 112H I could be curious to see how their OEM spool is setup, whether it looks like mine.
The one pictured here is the only 112H I happen to own.
Thanks for all the input. Please keep it coming.
-martin
Interesting, 2 Penn OEM spools... Maybe the first one isn't engaging the pinion all the way. Didja try adjusting the bearings to move the first spool closer to the head-plate?
As stated above, if the handle size shaft is different between the two then the firt one was a 65 sized spool. Whatever it is, I'm glad it is working out. Go kill fish!
The Man
I know this topic has came up before. Not only could I not remember the answer but I couldn't even find the discussion. Sheesh...so I tore open a reel. This is the Seaboy 190/Long Beach 65 spool that is labeled "112H". Notice the spool shaft...this is the spool you have Martin that won't work. The difference is, besides the appearance, the 112H uses ball bearings and the Seaboy 190/Long Beach 65 uses bushings. Although the spool shaft is different on the two, they both use that 112H spool section. 8)
Hey Mo, your pic shows seaboy spool has a much shorter shaft than both of Martin's spools. To me it appears the neither of Martin's spools are seaboy 190
Quote from: Maxed Out on May 11, 2020, 05:35:28 PM
Hey Mo, your pic shows seaboy spool has a much shorter shaft than both of Martin's spools. To me it appears the neither of Martin's spools are seaboy 190
It sure does! I didn't even look at that...I was fixated on the way the shaft entered the spool. Just
great Ted...now the mystery continues!! :D
every 112h i've had has spool bushings, same as a jigmaster..
The 112 H2 made in china has ball bearings.
Quote from: RowdyW on May 11, 2020, 06:46:24 PM
The 112 H2 made in china has ball bearings.
Quote from: vilters on May 11, 2020, 06:27:07 PM
every 112h i've had has spool bushings, same as a jigmaster..
For the love of God...I had the 112H2 on the brain...I'm going back to bed.
Quote from: RowdyW on May 11, 2020, 06:46:24 PM
The 112 H2 made in china has ball bearings.
interesting, i've not seen one yet. i have seen the chinese 309, but not fished it yet...
Thanks for all the input. Thanks to Mo for opening up a reel to help us figure this out.
I got my dial calipers out to take some measurements. Full disclosure, I am not a machinist, so my measuring is probably not exact. I do think it's close enough to shed some light on the issue.
This first photo is a picture of caliper dial measuring the shaft length of the OEM spool that was installed in my reel when I bought it:
(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/19447_12_05_20_7_54_05_326981888.jpeg)
Sorry about the glare, but I think its still readable.
This second picture is with the new spool I bought from Mystic Parts. It's almost an eighth of an inch longer.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/19447_12_05_20_7_54_05_326982118.jpeg)
As mentioned the new spool works perfectly.
Maybe someone familiar with the Pro Challenger gear set will weigh in. Right now, it looks like the PC gear set requires the longer spool shaft. Regular OEM spool doesn't appear to be compatible.
Has anyone else tried this gear set? I think it's fairly new on the market, but I'm not sure.
-martin
I have two 112H spools in my possession and both are spot on to your second dimension of 13/16" ( 0.780" )
(https://i.imgur.com/Nqh30Kc.jpg)
Sal
Thanks Sal. That really helps. It looks like there must have been a manufacturing change at some point and the spool went to .780 of an inch. The Pro Challenger gear set will work with any spool of that dimension drive shaft. I assume that mine is an older model, but its hard to tell.
I think we have the answer now.
This is a terrific web site!
Thanks to all.
-martin
So, what's it all mean? People's talkin bout Seaboy's and L. B. 65's, etc.? Were the shorter spool shafts for bushing 112 H's and the longer ones for ball bearing reels? For now, I'm glad I don't have one of these Senators, but Mysticparts seems to know what to send.
The two spools you see above came from two standard 112h with bushings, one is shiny and one dull... probably 20 years apart.
I took two reels apart so you guys could have my answer on my finding, for what it's worth and you're welcomed by the way, Gfish.
I do not know anything a bout the 112H2 made in China, I don't own any.
The only 112h with bearings that I know of are the Custom kits from Tom and Tiburon.
Sal
It's not hard to figure out...just go back and read all the posts and you'll see that I screwed up everything I said except the fact that the Seaboy 190 spool has a shorter shaft. Then the fellows corrected me. That odd spool that Martin started with is just one of those anomalies. :-\
Yes, it looks like the spool I started with is some sort of oddity. It is marked 112H and looks original, but it does have a shorter shaft. Worked perfectly with the original gear set.
Mystic Parts was just as surprised as I was. Bottom line, before someone tries to do n gear set upgrade on the 112H, they should get a measurement on the old spool if they are going to use it. It has to be 13/16th's to work properly. The replacement spool I bought had the correct shaft length and worked fine.
Thanks to everyone who helped figure this out. We now have the info for someone else if they need it.
-martin
glad you figured it out and thanks for posting. may save someone else time and frustration. the 112h is one of my favorite reels.
Cool! Thanks Martin, Mo and Sal. Original 112H was a bushing reel. Possibly 2 diffrent head-plate side shaft lengths. Gotta be 13/16" total length to work with Pro Challenger gear sets.
This ancient spool from a Penn 112H measured shaft is 0.793" Got me one of those kits yesterday from Mystic without knowing about this. I'm gonna be looking for one of those longer shafted spools. :-\
(https://alantani.com/gallery/33/6863_25_07_20_4_03_21_33108232.jpeg)