I have looked through the threads and didn't find exact info on this issue I am having but please excuse me if I missed it. I have a Pro Gear 280 Albacore Special. Dawn at Smooth Drags says she doesn't have the drag washers. I am sure that I can modify something to fit the diameter but the height is an issue. The original smoothie drags were pretty thick. I know I can just add in some spacers but does anyone know of somewhere I can get thinner metal washers to make it into a 5-stack drag setup? Seems like such a waste to just put in three and a spacer when the room is easily there for 5. I also have a couple Pro Gear 545's and they both have 5 stack drags and work great but the drags are slightly smaller.
As always, any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
i usually just use penn drag washers and hobble together a set. it's not always critical to have an exact match.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=21.0
OK. It seems as though that may be the only option. Thanks for your suggestion as always.
It is quite possible that the metal drag washer from a Shimano Trinidad will fit. I just though of it now because I believe the gear sleeve is the same size. I'm not sure of the diameter of the washers though. I would need 3 reels to check it out, Trini 12 or 14, Trini 16, and PG 280 or 282.
Great idea, Bryan. I'll check it out and let you know what I find.
I'm eager to find out as well. I would love to have an option for my ProGear Reels, although the surface area for the ProGear drags are sufficient considering that the gears normally hold up to 15-18# of drag and exceeding that may damage the gears.
Bryan... I wanted to give you an update. I haven't had much time to play around with the reels lately but I did find some information. The Trinidad drags are too big. However, I measured the drag washers and realized that they are almost identical to #48 from Smooth drag. I spoke with Dawn and those carbontex washers fit Diawa Sealine 20 and 30. I ordered the drag washers and they fit almost perfect. I just had to enlarge the center hole a hair. Unfortunately she doesn't sell the metal washers for those reels. Also the carbontex are thinner than the original smoothies so I am going to see if I can find some metal washers(at least one) from a sealine reel to see if I can get it to fit to make this a 4 stack. Otherwise I suppose I can get a stainless steel washer from Home Depot and lap it to make sure it is flat and file the inside diameter to fit. I will post my results when I get more time to play. I just wish I spent half as much time fishing as I do messing around with the reels in my garage.
If I had a pair of metal washers to measure (a gear sleeve helps too) I can draw up and have some cut.
Wow. That would be fantastic. I would be happy to send you mine in the hopes of creating a 5 stack drag for the reel. just let me know where to send them and how much I should send you for doing this.
Check your PM's.
If I recall, these gears doesn't have sufficient depth to add a 5 stack even if you go with 0.5 mm thick carbon fiber and SS washers. You may need to go with 0.35 mm thick stainless steel washers but risk damaging the gear sleeve with washers that thin. Did you pull the bear to check the depth of the gear to see if it's possible?
Bryan - I was worried about that so I sent over the entire gear and gear sleeve assembly for Lee (Keta) to see what he could do. He thinks that he has the height issue worked out and will get back to me when he returns from out of town. I will be posting the results once I have them. At worst I can go with a 4 stack. I just am trying to avoid using simply a spacer if I put in thinner carbontex washers.
I think the stock washers are 1.4 mm thick. I normally use HT-100s but if I use carbontex washers, I use two 0.75 mm thick for each replacement. and adjust the last based on the height.
I've been thinking of making kits for the Albacore specials, Wahoo Specials, and CS series but replacement gears are hard to come by if you push them too hard.
Good luck and would enjoy what you discover and what your reel can/cannot do.
Your washers have been cut, I'm cleaning them up and polishing them today.
Bryan, What I did was have a variety of thicknesses cut (including some thicker than stock top washers to use with the original metal washers and thinner than stock fiber washers) so the stack can be tinkered with.
Dawn makes a .020" thick CF washer that I think would be a good choice with .035" and .045" (top washer) metal washers.
Smooth Drag #37 CF washer dimensions,
OD 1.055"
ID 0.375"
Thickness 0.020"
I haven't had a chance to use the reel yet since I got the new 5 stack drag washers. No fishing for me lately. The only time I went out we ended up bottom fishing which is not the best use for this reel. However I am easily getting 25lbs+ of smooth drag during testing which is certainly more than I will use with this reel, especially with 6:1 gearing. I will get some photos of Lee's work as soon as I can. Thanks Lee for all your work on this. I really appreciate it. Let me know if I can ever repay the favor.
Sorry to bring this back up from the dead, but I am looking to upgrade my newly acquired 280 to a 5-stack. Please let me know where I can secure some washers/drags to upgrade my 280.
Thank you!
MW99-
Did you ever find more info on upgrading to a 5-stack for your AS280? My default is to keep mine a 3-stack by retrofitting with HT-100s for a 9/0 or 10/0 Senator, #6-116 which are advertised as 1.36mm thick.
Keith
Hi Keith,
No luck, currently sitting stock. Do you have pictures of how the drag stack compares to original?
Quote from: sciaenops on July 05, 2020, 10:33:01 PM
MW99-
Did you ever find more info on upgrading to a 5-stack for your AS280? My default is to keep mine a 3-stack by retrofitting with HT-100s for a 9/0 or 10/0 Senator, #6-116 which are advertised as 1.36mm thick.
Keith
David-
Attached is the drag stack in exploded & assembled shots. The dia for the under gear washer is pretty close to a Penn #6-309 and the dia for the 3 in gear washers I believe are nearly identical to a Saltist 20/30h. But As you know CF from smoothdrag are only 1mm thick max whereas the originals are closer to 1.5mm. One compromise is Penn #6-116 which are not as close in dia (But maybe close enough) but are advertised as 1.36mm thick. So I'll probably go that route and adjust/shim any slop with an xtra Belleville or 2.
Keith
I may have mixed up the original Saltist washer with a Sealine 50H. Either way the dimensions have been recorded in prev posts (33 mm od x 9.5 mm id)
If you guys don't mind double stacking carbontex drag washers, I could punch our 0.76 mm thick washers in the size needed. I would have to order a sheet of the material though.
Hi Bryan,
I am interested! Let me know if you do and obviously will cover material used and time.
Quote from: Bryan Young on July 06, 2020, 05:48:45 AM
If you guys don't mind double stacking carbontex drag washers, I could punch our 0.76 mm thick washers in the size needed. I would have to order a sheet of the material though.
Works for me Bryan & David. Just txt me about how much for a set. Keith
Bryan, I would also be interested in buying a set or 2.
Thanks
Jim
went to local tackle shop & picked up a set of Carbontex (5+1) for Saltiga 30T/40/50. These are obviously thinner than the originals so I doubled up on the CF washers sitting on the bottom of the gear. Also replaced the under gear stock Delrin with a similar sized HT-100 (#6-309). First trial was promising but upon buttoning down got a "clunk" and star bottomed out. Figured the stack was too short and/or the domed metal washer (Belleville?) wasn't supported so added the old Delrin in between it and the uppermost CF. Seems to be good to go, but will see how it handles a real pull, hopefully in a week or 2.
Let us know!
Does anyone know if you should grease the old style original drag washers in the 280 Albacore specials? Looks like asbestos.
I call them cancer drags and chuck them.
Quote from: sabaman1 on July 10, 2020, 06:07:50 AM
Does anyone know if you grease the old style original drag washers in the 280 Albacore specials? Looks like asbestos.
Pretty sure the 'asbestos' drag washers are better dry - they lose friction with oil or grease. Carbon washers with grease is a better option but if you want to run with the originals, leave them dry.
Mike
got to try out my new used PGs a few days ago on a trip out of SD w/my buddy Dave (that's him w/jackpot fish). PG545 w/30# Izor topshot easily handled 15# yt and the AS280 with 25# Izor t/s & the jerry-rigged C-tex washer upgrade got me a couple of 30# bft. Thanks again Bryan and all for the good stuff on this board.
Congrats! I have not heard back from Bryan yet. I will probably just stick to the asbesto drags.
Quote from: sciaenops on August 10, 2020, 06:34:47 PM
got to try out my new used PGs a few days ago on a trip out of SD w/my buddy Dave (that's him w/jackpot fish). PG545 w/30# Izor topshot easily handled 15# yt and the AS280 with 25# Izor t/s & the jerry-rigged C-tex washer upgrade got me a couple of 30# bft. Thanks again Bryan and all for the good stuff on this board.
Quote from: mrwilson99 on August 11, 2020, 12:17:14 AM
Congrats! I have not heard back from Bryan yet. I will probably just stick to the asbesto drags.
Quote from: sciaenops on August 10, 2020, 06:34:47 PM
got to try out my new used PGs a few days ago on a trip out of SD w/my buddy Dave (that's him w/jackpot fish). PG545 w/30# Izor topshot easily handled 15# yt and the AS280 with 25# Izor t/s & the jerry-rigged C-tex washer upgrade got me a couple of 30# bft. Thanks again Bryan and all for the good stuff on this board.
Oh, I thought someone found an alternative solution. Ok. Let me look up the sizing of these drag washers and see what I can come u with.
Bryan
Bryan-
No need to come up with anything for me - I'm good with what I have for now.
Keith
I am interested still Bryan, I have a 280 and 282 that I would upgrade.
Quote from: Bryan Young on August 11, 2020, 01:16:41 AM
Quote from: mrwilson99 on August 11, 2020, 12:17:14 AM
Congrats! I have not heard back from Bryan yet. I will probably just stick to the asbesto drags.
Quote from: sciaenops on August 10, 2020, 06:34:47 PM
got to try out my new used PGs a few days ago on a trip out of SD w/my buddy Dave (that's him w/jackpot fish). PG545 w/30# Izor topshot easily handled 15# yt and the AS280 with 25# Izor t/s & the jerry-rigged C-tex washer upgrade got me a couple of 30# bft. Thanks again Bryan and all for the good stuff on this board.
Oh, I thought someone found an alternative solution. Ok. Let me look up the sizing of these drag washers and see what I can come u with.
Bryan
Bryan, I am also interested in buying some sets for my 280.
Thank You
Jim
Lucky me. I found an original Albacore Special carbon fiber washer. The washer measures 3/8" x 1-1/4" x 0.065" thick. The sad part is I don't know if this washer is for the AS280 or AS540.
Can someone confirm this washer to fit the AS280 before I start cutting washers? Thank you.
Additionally, I don't know what is the size of the under gear washer OD and thickness. If someone has this available, please let me know.
Anyway, whichever reel this is for, you would use 5 Carbontex washers, ~1 mm thick as follows:
Top keyed washer
Carbontex ~1.0 mm thick
Carbontex ~1.0 mm thick
Eared washer
Carbontex ~1.0 mm thick
Keyed washer
Carbontex ~1.0 mm thick
Carbontex ~1.0 mm thick
Main gear
Carbontex under gear washer
Bryan
Hey Bryan-
QuoteThe washer measures 3/8" x 1-1/4" x 0.065" thick. The sad part is I don't know if this washer is for the AS280 or AS540.
Sounds right for the in gear washers for my AS280 (33 x 9.5 mm is what I measured)
QuoteAdditionally, I don't know what is the size of the under gear washer OD and thickness. If someone has this available, please let me know.
The under gear washer is 15/16" od x 13/32" id (24 x 10.3 mm). My original was delrin so I can only guess it was ~ 1mm thick, because I added it back on top of the 4-stack C-tex washers I used in the main gear.
Keith
Sign me up for a few sets! I have both 280, 282, 540, 542 and 461!
Quote from: Bryan Young on August 11, 2020, 05:21:45 AM
Lucky me. I found an original Albacore Special carbon fiber washer. The washer measures 3/8" x 1-1/4" x 0.065" thick. The sad part is I don't know if this washer is for the AS280 or AS540.
Can someone confirm this washer to fit the AS280 before I start cutting washers? Thank you.
Additionally, I don't know what is the size of the under gear washer OD and thickness. If someone has this available, please let me know.
Anyway, whichever reel this is for, you would use 5 Carbontex washers, ~1 mm thick as follows:
Top keyed washer
Carbontex ~1.0 mm thick
Carbontex ~1.0 mm thick
Eared washer
Carbontex ~1.0 mm thick
Keyed washer
Carbontex ~1.0 mm thick
Carbontex ~1.0 mm thick
Main gear
Carbontex under gear washer
Bryan
I might have one of these reels. Did they all come with asbestos drag washers ?? If so, I could use a set of these washers too Bryan
Ted
Ok. I'll punch an whole sheet of in-gear washers and under-gear washers to make up a set of washers.
Bryan , I would like to purchase a couple sets from you also.
Thank You
Jim
Thank you, in for a few sets!
Quote from: Bryan Young on August 12, 2020, 02:59:19 PM
Ok. I'll punch an whole sheet of in-gear washers and under-gear washers to make up a set of washers.
I bought sheets of 1.2 mm I think and punched multiple sets years ago. The drags are all the same size with the exception of the 461? I'm not sure what that is.....
All this confusion is making me want to go tear mine apart to confirm. I kept them 3 stacks as I recall.
Bryan, are you sure .065'' ? Thats 1.65mm and I don't recall that? I'm thinking 1.4mm was the original.
I'm not doubting you will come up with the 'Ultimate' set though.
Have anymore?
Quote from: Rancanfish on August 12, 2020, 07:03:39 PM
I bought sheets of 1.2 mm I think and punched multiple sets years ago. The drags are all the same size with the exception of the 461? I'm not sure what that is.....
All this confusion is making me want to go tear mine apart to confirm. I kept them 3 stacks as I recall.
Hmmm, posted a reply I thought......I'll check when the hot garage cools off.
Edit: I do have 1.2mm
Quote from: Rancanfish on August 12, 2020, 07:03:39 PM
I bought sheets of 1.2 mm I think and punched multiple sets years ago. The drags are all the same size with the exception of the 461? I'm not sure what that is.....
All this confusion is making me want to go tear mine apart to confirm. I kept them 3 stacks as I recall.
Bryan, are you sure .065'' ? Thats 1.65mm and I don't recall that? I'm thinking 1.4mm was the original.
I'm not doubting you will come up with the 'Ultimate' set though.
Hi Randy,
Yes, I'm sure. I just re-measured it. My washers are NOS and didn't come out of any reel. That is where you may see a difference in the drag washer thickness as the drag washers looks like HT-100 where the weave is a little loose unlike Carbontex.
3 x 0.065" = 0.195".
1 mm = 0.040"
5 washers x 0.040" = 0.2"
Alternatively, I could cut 4 washers x 0.04" and one at 0.03" for a total height of 0.19". I suspect 5 x 0.04" would be better because you will be compressing the washes anyway. The only think is you may have a little drag when you back the star off completely since you will always have a little compression due to the height.
Note that I do not have 15/16 sized punch for the under gear drag washer. I could do 1" or 7/8". Please advise which size you would like. Also, may I get confirmation of the thickness? 0.030" or 0.040" thick?
I do t want to guess because the wrong thickness, the gear could interfere with the anti-reverse dog or sit to high for the proper main/pinion gear engagement.
Thank you,
Bryan
Lol, I'm real confused. On page #1, post #12 you stated originals were 1.4mm. Also, that pushing a 5 stack may damage gears so I think that is why I went with (3) 1.2mm. No replacement gears around for these reels.
I purchased the sheet from Sal's EBay contact. But as I recall Dawn sells 1.2 and 1.5mm Carbontex. The 1.5 may be perfect for this.
I'm out.....
I will open my 280 and see what size later on today!
Quote from: Bryan Young on August 13, 2020, 02:07:53 AM
Not that I do not have 15/16 sized punch for the under gear drag washer. I could do 1" or 7/8". Please advise which size you would like. Also, may I get confirmation of the thickness? 0.030" or 0.040" thick?
I do t want to guess because the wrong thickness, the gear could interfere with the anti-reverse dog or sit to high for the proper main/pinion gear engagement.
Thank you,
Bryan
Quote from: mrwilson99 on August 13, 2020, 04:04:28 PM
I will open my 280 and see what size later on today!
Quote from: Bryan Young on August 13, 2020, 02:07:53 AM
Not that I do not have 15/16 sized punch for the under gear drag washer. I could do 1" or 7/8". Please advise which size you would like. Also, may I get confirmation of the thickness? 0.030" or 0.040" thick?
I do t want to guess because the wrong thickness, the gear could interfere with the anti-reverse dog or sit to high for the proper main/pinion gear engagement.
Thank you,
Bryan
Thank you David!
Ok, my washer thicknesses were off. I though I was cutting 1 mm thick material and was actually is thicker than 1 mm material. I will get the final numbers tonight.
I have 10 kits available if the measurements are okay for me to ship. The cost will be $20 per kit plus $4 shipping.
Let me know! Text me!
Quote from: Bryan Young on September 01, 2020, 01:08:29 AM
Ok, my washer thicknesses were off. I though I was cutting 1 mm thick material and was actually is thicker than 1 mm material. I will get the final numbers tonight.
I have 10 kits available if the measurements are okay for me to ship. The cost will be $20 per kit plus $4 shipping.
Original versus Carbontex that need to be stacked to creat a 3-stack from 5 washers. The new stack could be 0.2 mm shorter or 0.4 mm taller. Which would you prefer?
Bryan, these are the 280 albacore special replacement drags correct?
Yes. These are for replacement for AS280 and AS282. Not sure about other reels though.
You would take 5 washers and stack them 2 then 1 then 2 instead of 3 washers of the same thickness.
I'm out of kits.
Thank you for making these, Bryan! Let me know when you are doing next round, would like a few more sets!
Thanks again!
David
Quote from: Bryan Young on September 05, 2020, 05:54:34 AM
I'm out of kits.