Good afternoon,
I am very new here and don't want to make a faux pas by appearing not to have searched other posts, but here goes.....
I'm doing an upgrade job on a Penn 113 4/0 with black side plates for my fishing buddy. Money is really no object as this is his only "big" reel. He uses in saltwater for pretty much everything from bottom fishing to beach sharking and says he'll never sell it. I was given carte blache to mod to my little heart's content.
I've got a Tiburon frame coming. I ordered the 5 stack drag and new metal washers from Dawn along with a stainless gear sleeve and t bar handle and blank. Mo at Scott's is sending me a black aluminum spool.
My thoughts for finishing out the build are to try and locate any other stainless guts available like a bridge, yoke, eccentric, etc. I would also like to have the rings powder coated blue if anyone can recommend someone who does this. If adding a second dog wouldn't be too complicated, I'd try that too.
If anyone has any recommendations for other stuff, I would love to hear them. I understand the black 113 is not considered all that desirable, but it gave me a good project to learn about Penns. This is my first Penn build and I'm loving it so far.
SPC....you are right on track with the first set of mods, the second set would be ginger bread, you might want to add an extended handle to the T-Bar and stainless dogs, Lee Keta should be able to help with that....not sure if stainless bridges are available, but someone will chime in later on that...as for double dogging, check out some of the other threads on this and have at it...I have no direction on powder coating, but that would be an expensive option...we would like to see some pictures of your build when available....Bill
The extended handle is on its way from Dawn.
I've seen some of the double dogging threads, especially Shark Hunter's. The thought of dremeling the sideplate makes me reach for a Maalox bottle.
The powder coating is pure gravy, but this is one of my closest fishing buddies and I want this reel to be something he can be proud of for a very long time.
I've gotta figure out the whole picture posting thing. The first attempt failed.
send him a PM and Im sure he can walk you through it...good luck brother.....Bill
How about a new drag star wheel from Three Se7ens on this site? The photo does not look like a 113. It looks more like a larger Senator with the double cross bars & triple harness lugs? 14/0 or larger? Wrong photo?
That is my buddy's new 14/0 I tried to post in the Welcome forum. I'll be tearing into it after the 113.
Double dog that 14! I have stainless dogs and springs for it.
Add an ss sleeve and an Insert and it will be a whole lot of reel!
I posted in Adam's forums about the stars. Done deal if he has one to fit.
I will advise my buddy of the parts you have SH. I know he wanted me to lube it and put carbon Tex washers in it first. Hope he goes all in and lets me go nuts with it.
An Insert kit and stainless sleeve with double dogs will run about $120 for the parts.
I opted for a new stainless main and pinion on this build.
(http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag93/darondyer/IMG_3078_zps7g4cwvqd.jpg)
Wow Daron, you put a lot of meat down there on that table.
Those parts are gorgeous! Looking forward to working on one of those big boys
This may take me a minute and a few posts to cover, but I hit some snags and need some input.
All of the parts have arrived and I went to do the final assembly....
A light coat of grease on the left side of the spool, then i started to clean the bridge, replace the gear sleeve with the new stainless on from Mo, and install the new 5 washer stack from Dawn.
The bridge, gear, and sleeve were just nasty. It was covered in a reddish rusty grease. Someone had actually already done a 5 stack conversion, but the corrosion was bad enough that the first 3 washers were so stuck in the gear I had to use a punch to get them out, even after an hour soak in Simple Green.
(//)
Is there still a washer in the gear? Or is it that Nasty?
Looks like some salt water got in there and went to town.
Clean up that gear with a wire wheel on a Dremel Tool.
If you don't have a Dremel, Some fine sandpaper or emery cloth.
Based on the rust on your fingers, You need to clean that up and put the new stack in with some Cal's drag grease.
Keep us posted.
I also noticed a tick in the sleeve before I took it off to replace it. The post on the bridge has two nicks I the slot where the pin goes. I hit them with a file and it's better, but not perfect.
The main gear is still soaking in Simple Green. I have noted some pitting inside the gear.
Should I just go ahead and order a new bridge and gear? I haven't been able to source stainless ones yet, but it appears Scott's has both in stock. I'm already way into this build. Another 25 bucks is not the end of the world.
No washer. It was that nasty.
Before you order a bridge and main gear let me check my old parts. I should have what you need.
Keith
The only time I replace the Bridge, is if there is slop with the sleeve that is unacceptable or the Bridge post itself is loose.
That is part of the accomplishment. As long as the gears are smooth and the sleeve to post fit is tight. You are good to go.
You are going to have to use some abrasive to get that rust out of the gear.
A Dremel with a soft wire wheel does magic.
Keith is a Godsend and helps a lot of people out such as yourself.
Its all about paying it forward here. ;)
There's no slop and I may be able to smooth the nicks out with the Dremel.
Keith, you are too kind and I am most grateful. Please let me cover any postage and a fair price for the parts.
SH, there is no other Internet forum I've ever seen that is this clean and friendly. In the world we live in, you should all be very proud of that.
Patrick,
Stick around, and you will be just like the rest of us. ;)
In no time, The tables will be turned.
This is a Sacred Place.
Some get the lesson to be learned.
In spite of my fanatic reel buying hot rodding habit, my best fishing buddy has only one rod and reel, a penn 4/0 black mounted on a Penn Sabre, he inherited it from his dad and it is the only reel he uses when he's out with me. just like your buddies reel, I offered to do everything to his reel, he declined and insisted he just wanted it cleaned serviced and loaded with new mono. I think I snuck a stainless sleeve in the reel anyway and one of Bryan's 5+1 drag kits, but that's it. He won't let me do anything else to the reel. I simply do not understand it?
I actually do get your friend's position. That reel was his dad's. He's sentimentally attached to it as is. He's actually a lucky guy to have a connection like that through a classic reel. That being said, I probably wouldn't fish a sentimental reel except in rare and very safe circumstances. I'd get a second 4/0, a 113H this time, and hotrod away.
I followed Daron's advice and broke out the Dremel. The burrs on the bridge post came out and the fit was good.
The main was still gross even after a nights soak. The Dremel got it passable, but I'll replace it the next time I open it up.
I liked the results so much, I polished the bridge and everything else.
I assembled the right sideplate and added the power handle. As soon as the new star arrives from Adam, I'll put it on.
For my first Penn build, I think it turned out ok.
Pretty sweet! I can however see an issue with the eccentric lever being backward.
Also make sure you loctite that handle. The screw that actually attaches it to the arm and another inside the handle.
Nice work. I like the look of the black plates on a silver frame.
Mike
nice work; looks very good!
Ok? Ok? That is way better than ok! Nice work.
The lever IS backward. Wish there was a smiley face that did a head smack. How did I miss that one?
Daron, I didn't lock tite the handle screws and didn't know I was supposed to. Thanks for the heads up!
My buddy came by last night to give it a look. He was a happy man. Asked me for a spooling recommendation. I was thinking 400 yards of 60# JB hollow with a served splice topshot of Big Game 40. I have similar on my Torium 16 and Solterra 10 and am pretty happy with it. But I am a Penn newbie (as evidenced by backward eccentric lever), so please feel free to recommend some spooling options. This will be his do-all saltwater reel.
Thank you all for the advice!
Patrick
SPC
Keta sells JB line. PM him
Mike
Pat,
I did the same thing when I rebuilt my first Senator. It came backwards and I thought that is how it went. We all have to start somewhere. The aftermarket handles are known for the screw loosening. I use the Blue Loctite. A little drop of oil on the bearings in the handle will smooth it out as well. They are usually dry. I'm not trying to be snobby, just giving advice. That reel looks off the hook!
been there, done that with eccentric. I swear that's the nicest 113 I've seen.
Bryan-for you to call it nice work calls for a celebratory beer. I've learned so much reading what you and Alan write, I woulda been tickled if you just said it was passable.
Mike-I will definitely PM Keta. I've been using BPH and their service is great. Basil taught me to do a served connection over the phone. Shipping is rough though.
Daron-I did put blue Loc Tite on the two screws in the actual handle, but not on the two screws that hold the handle on the reel. Do I need it there as well? Easy day since the handle has gotta come off when Adam's star gets here.
Thor-Not only are you an epic comic book character, but you totally made my day with your comment! This reel really tried my patience with all the corrosion issues. You guys are too kind.
Wasn't kidding. You badarsed that 4/0
Looks great! Really nice job on it.
Like This.
Got those spots. The instructions from Smoothdrag said to do exactly that. I don't know if Dawn reads much here, but that handle sure got a lot of compliments. Even the wife liked it.
Quote from: spc7669 on June 30, 2016, 09:55:35 PM
Got those spots. The instructions from Smoothdrag said to do exactly that. I don't know if Dawn reads much here, but that handle sure got a lot of compliments. Even the wife liked it.
I sell and install many of those handles. I have to use Red Loctite. When I used blue they came loose. Red on the handle screw only. Grease on the set screw inside the handle.
Duly noted. I sent a message to Evan and let him know to switch to red if that screw works loose. I used blue on the set screw as well.
The reason I use grease on the set screw is in case the handle needs to come off.
I would still like to find a stainless main gear and pinion for this reel if anyone knows a possible source.
Also, has a tutorial been done for double dogging this model? I wasn't able to find one using the search function.
Thanks to everyone here for making this build a success.
No stainless main gears but hardened steel gears are available. I think Sal (Alto Mare) did a write up on double dogging & regearing the 113 from 2.0 to a 2.6 ratio. I did a gearing up of 2.0 to 2.4. previous to that. Rudy
Search for grouper special.
Quote from: Shark Hunter on July 01, 2016, 04:47:31 PM
Search for grouper special.
Quote from: RowdyW on July 01, 2016, 04:21:31 PM
No stainless main gears but hardened steel gears are available. I think Sal (Alto Mare) did a write up on double dogging & regearing the 113 from 2.0 to a 2.6 ratio. I did a gearing up of 2.0 to 2.4. previous to that. Rudy
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=9979.msg93421#msg93421
There are a couple different ways to speed the reel up. That thing is real pretty. I'd run the steel gear with one of Bryan's big drag kits and it'b be a monster.
Ron
I'm not so much looking for a speed up as a beef up. I love small reels that are giant killers. But I'll probably change to the 113 gear and jigmaster pinion because it's stronger. Sal's Grouper Special is a beautiful thing. I see some PM's in his future guiding me through the upgrades.
Quote from: spc7669 on June 30, 2016, 02:19:41 PM
The lever IS backward. Wish there was a smiley face that did a head smack.
(http://querytracker.net/forum/Smileys/default/adoh3.gif)
~
A~
I got the handle in from Adam and mounted on the reel.
I think I want to put JB60 hollow with a short 40# top shot. Any ideas how much this reel holds?
The star, not the handle. Head smack #2.
Quote from: spc7669 on July 02, 2016, 09:48:37 PM
But I'll probably change to the 113 gear and jigmaster pinion because it's stronger.
I don't think that setup will work. Use a longbeach 66 pinion gear with 113 main gear & 66 bridge & yoke. Rudy
Rudy,
Thanks for the parts tips! I wish someone made stainless guts for a plain 113. Sure would make my life easier.
Patrick
Some of the interior parts in S/S are available. The pinion gears in most of the Penn conventional reels are S/S. A S/S gear sleeve is also available (jigmaster, longbeach, etc.) is the same part # & available from AT. Just use the hardened steel main gear & you will be fine. It's a tough gear & I haven't seen any broken ones. S/S dogs are available from Keta. You don't need much more then that.
I have already installed the SS gear sleeve. I can get a SS eccentric jack from Alan at Pro Challenger. If Keta has the dog, that would be a pretty complete package. I would really love a stainless double dog bridge.
I'm certainly no machinist and doubt I could make one myself, but from what I've seen around here, somebody will make it just to prove it can be done.
It's easier to just cut out the plate to install double dogs. Sal has a how to with his regearing of the 113. If you need that much strength you had better step up to a 113H or even a 114H. Trying to prove how much a 113 4/0 can take can lead to expensive disaster. And if you don't use it you don't need it. If you want more strength out of that reel it's time to reinforce the frame. Get a used Accurate or used or new Tiburon frame. 113 & 113H take the same frame.
Rudy
Already has the Tiburon frame, 5 stack drag, aluminum spool, and stainless gear sleeve. There doesn't appear to be much left I can do. But it surely was fun to do it.
Patrick
Now to really have some fun build a 113H TANK. The ultimate reel for it's size. A lot of development went into that. I built my Tank on a 113H YTS frame.
Quote from: RowdyW on July 09, 2016, 01:41:36 AM
Now to really have some fun build a 113H TANK. The ultimate reel for it's size. A lot of development went into that. I built my Tank on a 113H YTS frame.
Good advice Rudy, the Tank could be a 10#,20# or 30# reel, just by rearranging the washers.
Yes this reel could handle 30#, we need to find out how long it could handle it during a fight.
I have the Tank loaded with the latest parts, we will find out... I have no doubts.
I believe we have a very capable reel here, we should all be proud.
Patrick, the 113 is not as strong as the 113H, but still a nice reel. If I were you I would go with the stainless steel sleeve, drag upgrade and a nice handle, as mentioned above. That's about it, if you need more drag than 15-17lbs, I would consider the Tank and go all the way.
Sal
I told Evan to rig it with 60# JB Hollow with a 40# spliced top shot. Further told him if he ends up being undergunned, we'll shop around for a 114H and tank it. If that fails too, I'll call Daron and broker a deal on one of his rod mounted tow trucks.
You jumped from a jigmaster size reel to a 6/0. Our 113H Tank, loaded could handle anything in the water.
Then I need to find me a 113H at a good price
Patrick, you might want to buy new parts to build it. By the time you buy a frame, aluminum plates,custom handle & knob,new chrome parts, custom gears,S/S inside parts, you won't be left with to many original parts. Building a Tank is pricey but it would be something you will be proud of because you built it yourself. Like Sal said it will handle (almost) anything. Rudy
Yup, it could get pricey. No need to go all out yet, get a 113h off ebay for under $50 and start from there. Add the DD stainless steel bridge with sleeve and the latest gears with washers, that will keep the cost down.
You could use the aluminum frame that you already have.
This 113 belongs to one of my best fishing buddies. If I do a tank, it'll be all mine, and I can do it from parts rather than a buy a sacrificial reel. I've got my annual offshore trip in less than a month, so it won't make it for that, but it'll be ready by next time. I really dig the idea of a total custom job over hot ridding an existing reel.
What will be the hardest part to source? I expect it's the aluminum side plates.
Patrick
Right now I think Tom/Cortez Conversions might have a few sets left from the first run. I don't think they will last to much longer. Contact Tom to see if he can put a set aside for you. The rest of the parts should be easy enough to get.
Rudy,
I checked that thread, all Tom has left are for old style Tiburon frames. Since I'll be ordering from current Tiburon stock, I don't think they will work. Hopefully he'll make some more in the future. In the meantime, I'll start picking up some parts and stocking them away.
Patrick