Seeking recommendations with regards to fluorocarbon:
1) What's the best/strongest mono-to fluoro knot? From what I gather, the blood knot (my favorite) is definitely frowned upon; most seem to prefer either the surgeon's knot or the double uni... Thoughts? ???
2) What's the proper length for the fluoro leader?
3) Is it best to match the lb-test of mono to fluoro, or can it be mismatched (a little) up or down?
All input greatly appreciated... Thanks! :)
~A~
1. The surgeons knot works for me and is fast.
2. Yes..... ;) It is hard to say, 3'-4' seems to work but I prefer to use all fluro topshots.
3. I usual fish 20' fluro wind on topshots but I would use the same pound test is tying fluro to mono.
Forgive the question but why is the blood knot frowned upon? I like it as a braid to mono backing knot. It just takes patience. Always open to learning i was wrong.
One other thing I forgot: Is it good/bad/optional to put a drop of glue on the knot? :)
~A~
For short top shots I like the leader length as long as I can get it without the knot having to pass thru the tip about 5-8 feet depending on the length of the rod. If it's not for casting for heavy line I'll put the a longer one on, maybe the whole 25 yard spool.
The blood knot isn't very strong compared to other options
Definetly something for me to test, cause all I got are preferences.
Fluoro., I like as a short leader for stiffness and for the terminal knot strength. If I put a granny knot in the very end of the line, before I tie the lure/hook on and don't torque too much on it, it'll tighten itself when there's enough pressure from a fish/snag. The granny will keep it from untying under pressure. Regular mono. compresses too much, making me THINK the knot is the weak link.
Yeah, what about glue?
I use double uni for everything. That's why its a uni. If I need to have very different diameters, I will double up the braid with a surgeon loop (if you can Bimini, have at it!). The Bimini makes a nicer transition but hard to do that on a bouncing boat, and I have yet to have surgeon's-to-double uni fail despite pulling on pelagics. If you are looking to fish for cows then I'd go Bimini, but for anything under a 100lbs surgeons has worked for me just fine. length of fluoro depends on how I'm fishing- 18" for Spanish, flounder etc., a rod length plus 50% for casting long, 20-100 feet for trolling. You know where I live, so clearly lengths and tests will be different for you on LR trip than us. 80 lb fluoro is about the largest I can make a confident uni with; as you know it's stiffer and slicker than mono and 50 lb may be the more practical limit. In that type of class I would be doubling 65, 80 or 100 braid, depending. I've never used glue but know those that do- I probably should on heavier connections but as stated if I lose fish, it's more likely me than a knot.
J
Three turn surgeons knot, best mono to fluro connection. Pro strongest knot, easy and fast to tie. Con it's bulky.
Three feet length or so, long enough to retie once or twice, short enough to stay out of the rod guides when casting. It's just used for abrasion resistance.
Match the size of the diameter, usually means one size up on the fluro, it's for abrasion resistance, why would you do it any other way?
Did I mention it's for abrasion resistance? Using a circle hook also helps to keep line away from sharp abrasive teeth.
Instead of glue, leave the tag end a smidge longer. All knots slip a little when maxed out. Go ahead and use it if you want. Glue is recommended if making leaders with Sato crimps.
Leader length: 3-7' or 15-20'
Keep it about the same, can move up or down 1 size
About the blood knot, I use it all the time, usually with same size mono to flouro, works great. It was actually top-rated in a Field and Stream article.
* Link removed due to ridiculous amount of ads all over the page.
Quote from: nelz on October 23, 2020, 04:46:29 PM
About the blood knot, I use it all the time, usually with same size mono to flouro, works great. It was actually top-rated in this article:
https://www.fieldandstream.com/tie-the-strongest-fishing-knots/
DO NOT CLICK THAT LINK!! I GOT A SCREAMING RED VIRUS ALERT!!! :o :( >:(
~
A~
Huh??? I get no such warning and I have pretty tight security on my system.
Oh @#$% I just tried it in another browser and it's got ads all over the place. Still no virus warnings, but more than enough to retract my posting it.
The browser I usually use has an ad blocker, so it came through fine there. No good deed....
Quote from: nelz on October 23, 2020, 05:32:50 PM
Oh @#$% I just tried it in another browser and it's got ads all over the place. Still no virus warnings, but more than enough to retract my posting it.
Good move, but I'm disappointed, because I would've liked to read a positive slant on the blood knot... oh, well. Meantime, after a couple of practice ties, I'm favoring the double uni, because of its lower profile than the surgeon... but I might have used too many turns on the surgeon, so further testing is warranted.
Really appreciate all the feedback, guys... very helpful! :D
~
A~
Quote from: nelz on October 23, 2020, 05:32:50 PM
Oh @#$% I just tried it in another browser and it's got ads all over the place. Still no virus warnings, but more than enough to retract my posting it. The browser I usually use has an ad blocker, so it came through fine there.
I haven't used F&S in a long time, really surprised they would allow their site to get so degraded with garbage, you can barely see the article under all the ads. Anyway, here's the text, FWIW:
RETRACTED
Say what? Back-to-back Uni only 6%?? That's crazy... :(
~A~
Quote from: Aiala on October 23, 2020, 05:55:31 PMSay what? Back-to-back Uni only 6%?? That's crazy... :(
Uh... yeah, that sounds way too low, even at only 4 turns. Could be a typo maybe? Yet another strike against F$S, at my expense. :( Feeling embarrassed here for not paying closer attention. :-[
Quote from: nelz on October 23, 2020, 06:02:28 PM
Feeling embarrassed here for not paying closer attention. :-[
Embarrassment? No way... it's the magazine, not you. ;)
~
A~
This is EZ PZ. (Seaguar Knot)
https://youtu.be/tzeXXPAjqUY
The stiffness and diameters of the lines makes a difference on which knots work better. It might help to specify what you are tying. Assume you are "splicing" medium stiffness mono to similar diameter slightly stiffer Fluoro leader?
Regarding glue in knots. Most folks are using CA glues which don't adhere well, and loose stregth when exposed to water relatively quickly. There are some specialized CA glues that do a bit better in water, but these are not used much for knots. I think the good stuff might have to be kept refrigerated. Loc-tite has the most accessible product property sheets where you can look up various flavor of CA glues for strength over time when exposed to water, UV light, bond to different materials, etc. and decide for yourself.
Since the glues will not hold the knots together in any reliable way, you are mostly relying on the chunks of glue residue to gum up the knot to help keep it from slipping. On the flip side, the glue can also get in the way of the wraps or bends cinching down. I am not so enusthiastic about CA glue.
Ther are also knot coatings. Usually UV cure. These embed the entire knot in a glob of plastic (usually urethane) that tends to be more resilient than CA glues. The coating also creates a smoother profile that helps the knots pass through guides more easily. The downside to coatings is that most are extremely hard, increasing the chance for the line to wear from hinging at the edge of the coating. This is a problem for braids and fly lines, I don't know about thicker mono or fluoro.
There are more elastic solvent based glues/coatings that I will use, but mostly for protecting servings made of nylon thread or fine mono. I like Pliobond a lot, but it is a very visible brown. Aquaseal is clear and seems to work as well. I am a bit worried that the solvents in these glues will damage the lines, but since they don't penetrate under the servings much, I am getting away with it so far. These products are commonly used by the fly fishing crowd to serve loops on PVC coated fly lines and braided mono.
Regarding URL safety. You can always paste a URL into a safety check from a reputable provider such as Google or Norton and get a safety report.
google's is here https://transparencyreport.google.com/safe-browsing/search (https://transparencyreport.google.com/safe-browsing/search)
For example:
https://transparencyreport.google.com/safe-browsing/search?url=HTTPS:%2F%2Fwww.fieldandstream.com&hl=en (https://transparencyreport.google.com/safe-browsing/search?url=HTTPS:%2F%2Fwww.fieldandstream.com&hl=en)
Might want to check for a typo in the link.
-J
Quote from: jurelometer on October 23, 2020, 07:34:35 PMRegarding URL safety. You can always paste a URL into a safety check from a reputable provider such as Google or Norton and get a safety report.
Hey Jure, as I'm sure you've already tried yourself, the Google Transparency Report produces "
No unsafe content found" for the F&S link. I know I didn't mistype it in my original post because I copied and pasted the link while I was in it. I'm guessing that whatever anti-virus Aiala is using, it is tagging one of the domains belonging to the numerous ads' and trackers on that page as dangerous. Regardless of the Google result, I won't be using that site.
And btw, it was a Google search for "blood knot" that produced the link that started this whole fiasco! The blood knot works great for me so I got curious when I saw that it is "
frowned upon", hence the search. Gotta love the Internet, eh? ::)