Howzit. I tried searching and reading but couldn't find anything. When i ulua fish, i usually run tight drag on Newell 300, 500, and 600 series. The thick drag Belleville always cracks almost every year. Is there a better replacement from penn or McMaster that can handle?
Mahalo and Aloha
Aloha Brian,
There are other options, but cost for the quantity, it's hard to beat Penn Parts or McMaster.
You many need to revise your drag stack to give you more surface area. You really do not need to have any bellevilles for the drag #s you are looking at.
Bryan
Bryan,
Can you or anyone recommend a washer from either place? I think i heard the 113h works. Not sure.
Mahalo
I know that the 300s utilize jigmaster size drags if that helps.
Yup, i heard of a penn part for that drag system too, that may work, but i gotta find that info again.
QuoteYou really do not need to have any bellevilles for the drag #s you are looking at.
Reading this several times, do you mean eliminate the Belleville on top the stack, and add it or other light tension washers between the star and the handle?
The Penn 505 fits the Newell 200 thru 400 series perfectly. I just bought some from Penn Parts and they are cheap too.
I think the 113H will fit the 500 and 600 but waiting for Keta to confirm that for me. I only have one Newell Belleville for the 500 in my bench. I have never broken one but I have bought reels that have them missing.
Newell Nut
The part 3 for the Bevelle you were talking about is 18-505. I have them in all 30 of my Newell's. You also get a bit more drag with this part.
That one works really well and I bought some after you confirmed the number for me. Thanks for that tip. I sent Keta the dimensions for the 500 series and waiting to hear back from him if the 113H belleville is the same size as the 500.
The 18-505 would work but it is a smaller OD than the 500.
Quote from: jaybri on April 25, 2013, 03:17:38 PM
Yup, i heard of a penn part for that drag system too, that may work, but i gotta find that info again.
QuoteYou really do not need to have any bellevilles for the drag #s you are looking at.
Reading this several times, do you mean eliminate the Belleville on top the stack, and add it or other light tension washers between the star and the handle?
You can add just spacers if you are cranking down on the drags that much.
BTW, are you cracking the Newell Belleville washers? That is common. for the 300, you can use what Keith had advised for the Jigmaster below:
Quote from: Keith K on March 19, 2013, 03:09:37 AM
So I took apart my Newell 322, because I knew I had one of these in there...
(http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq241/KeithK/P3181930_zps31e57045.jpg)
Here it is: http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-disc-springs/=lxtz8x
Mine is:
-ID--.405 in
-OD--.82 in
-Thickness--.035 in
-Height--.0625 in
For Stainless it looks like part # 9713K425
yeah Bryan, cracking um. more on the 5 and 600 series cause where i use the 300s i can let the fish run a little, but still kinda tight so i decrease spits.
Quote from: Keith K on March 19, 2013, 03:09:37 AM
So I took apart my Newell 322, because I knew I had one of these in there...
(http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq241/KeithK/P3181930_zps31e57045.jpg)
Here it is: http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-disc-springs/=lxtz8x
Mine is:
-ID--.405 in
-OD--.82 in
-Thickness--.035 in
-Height--.0625 in
For Stainless it looks like part # 9713K425
Just ordered...
Cool, i will consider between the penn parts and mcmaster for the 300s. I will continue to research for the 500 and 600 series newells, but i think i will go no belleville on top if i fish before i find an answer. guarantee gonna have to have a bigger spacer though. nothing like it cracking when fishing and you have no pressure and bits of metal all ova da place inside. >:(
small kind off topic:
Quote from: Bryan Young on January 10, 2011, 05:55:55 AM
Here's the drag configuration:
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae348/hawaiiansurfinboy/Pro%20Gear%20251/DragConfiguratoin.jpg)
Here is the SmoothDrag Configuration:
Five #18 Carbontex, 0.5 mm thick (Center was bored out to 11 mm ID)
Three Keyed Washers, 0.9 mm thick
Two Eared Washers, 0.9 mm thick
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae348/hawaiiansurfinboy/Pro%20Gear%20251/SmoothDragStack2.jpg)
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae348/hawaiiansurfinboy/Pro%20Gear%20251/SmoothDragStack3.jpg)
The original washers were:
Three HT-100s, 0.8 mm thick
Two Keyed Washers, 1.06 mm thick
One Eared Washer, 1.06 mm thick
One Bevelled Spring Washer
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae348/hawaiiansurfinboy/Pro%20Gear%20251/OriginalStack1.jpg)
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae348/hawaiiansurfinboy/Pro%20Gear%20251/OriginalStack.jpg)
The new SmoothDrag configuration should fit in the normal jigmaster main gear with the remaining 2 washers (keyed and carbontex) sitting above the edge of the main gear. This will not be an issue since the eared washer is engaging the main gear.
anyone successful with 5+1 in the 300 newells?
how about 5+1 in the 500 newells?
mahalo for the fishing reel ohana
I have them in my PG255s with Newell 200 series gears, so it should work in your reel.
Quote from: Newell Nut on April 25, 2013, 05:40:24 PM
I sent Keta the dimensions for the 500 series and waiting to hear back from him if the 113H belleville is the same size as the 500.
The 18-505 would work but it is a smaller OD than the 500.
Right now, I'm looking at all three pieces:
1. Part#3-144 (small newell belleville spring)
2. Part#5-145 (large newell belleville spring)
3. Part#18-970(Penn 113H Tension spring)
The two newell belleville springs both have the same inside diameter approx 7/16".
The penn 113H tension spring has a larger size inside diameter at approx 9/16".
The penn 113H outside diameter is very close to the outside diameter of the small newell belleville spring.
The height of the two newell belleville springs are very similiar. The height of the Penn 113H is slightly shorter, but very close.
Based on my observation, if you use the penn 113H tension spring in the newell 500 or 600 gearstack, you'll get a lot of side to side movement from the tension spring because of the bigger inside diameter.
If the penn 505 part has the same inside diameter as the jigmaster, then I would use that part instead. Even if the outside diameter is smaller than the large newell belleville spring, it does not matter because the pressure would still be put onto the center part of the drag washers. In other words, I have successfully put the small newell belleville spring into the newell 500 drag stack and it worked very well.
As for the thin belleville springs on the outside by the star and the handle....I give up on those! :(
Quote from: franky on April 25, 2013, 08:12:22 PM
As for the thin belleville springs on the outside by the star and the handle....I give up on those! :(
No one that I know uses either the Wavy Washer or the Bevelle Washer from Newell any where in the 200 - 400 Series reels. They Crack and or Rust
They turned my irrigation water on 3 days early and I'm unpluging culverts. I'll try to check this evening unless I'm flooded.
email me with your address and i will send you a couple of bellevilles. ;D
Try McMaster Carr #9713k428 which is SS belleville spring washer that is the right size for the 500 and 600 series with a 900 lb working load. I don't think you could crack that one with an 8 lb hammer.
I received the heavy SS Bellevilles and noticed a sharp edge on the bottom side so I used 200 and 400 grit Sandpaper to get a smooth edge on the bottom. I installed one in a 540 3.2 and it fit perfect. With the star as tight as I could get it by hand I had to use a heavy glove and wrap the line around my hand to get any line off of the spool and it was smooth but hard to pull. Groupers will suffer now. I will definitely install these on my 631s. At a 900 lb working load rating this washer will not break in a reel.
I sent a few to Alan if someone wants to beg for one or go to Mcmaster and order a dozen.
Quote from: alantani on April 25, 2013, 11:59:00 PM
email me with your address and i will send you a couple of bellevilles. ;D
How many more do you have?
maybe a dozen total. send me your address again and i will mail some to you.
Quote from: Newell Nut on April 26, 2013, 01:26:37 AM
Try McMaster Carr #9713k428 which is SS belleville spring washer that is the right size for the 500 and 600 series with a 900 lb working load. I don't think you could crack that one with an 8 lb hammer.
Thanks! will do. i'll have a report in sept after my vacay regarding all of these topics.
Quote from: franky on April 25, 2013, 08:04:14 PM
Quote from: Newell Nut on April 25, 2013, 05:40:24 PM
I sent Keta the dimensions for the 500 series and waiting to hear back from him if the 113H belleville is the same size as the 500.
The 18-505 would work but it is a smaller OD than the 500.
Right now, I'm looking at all three pieces:
1. Part#3-144 (small newell belleville spring)
2. Part#5-145 (large newell belleville spring)
3. Part#18-970(Penn 113H Tension spring)
The two newell belleville springs both have the same inside diameter approx 7/16".
The penn 113H tension spring has a larger size inside diameter at approx 9/16".
The penn 113H outside diameter is very close to the outside diameter of the small newell belleville spring.
The height of the two newell belleville springs are very similiar. The height of the Penn 113H is slightly shorter, but very close.
Based on my observation, if you use the penn 113H tension spring in the newell 500 or 600 gearstack, you'll get a lot of side to side movement from the tension spring because of the bigger inside diameter.
If the penn 505 part has the same inside diameter as the jigmaster, then I would use that part instead. Even if the outside diameter is smaller than the large newell belleville spring, it does not matter because the pressure would still be put onto the center part of the drag washers. In other words, I have successfully put the small newell belleville spring into the newell 500 drag stack and it worked very well.
Mahalo for the help franky. did you measurea if you get the same drag with the 505 tension washer?
I've seen this on youtube, maybe it's of some interest to you newell guys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWIc6IwT0_M
I'm not crazy about the belleville being on top of the carbon fiber, but it's working out or him :-\.
Sal
Quote from: jaybri on April 26, 2013, 06:28:27 PM
Mahalo for the help franky. Did you measure if you get the same drag with the 505 tension washer?
[/quote]
Unfortunately I did not actually measure the drag tension. I just worked on a 440 yesterday and seen the same set up as the youtube video that Sal posted above. The drag seemed to have worked very well.
That was My Reel a friend was using for demo. He put the wrong numbers for the drag washers. Should be 6-309 for the drags. He also likes DRY Drag washers.
Mike
Quote from: Newell Nut on April 26, 2013, 01:26:37 AM
Try McMaster Carr #9713k428 which is SS belleville spring washer that is the right size for the 500 and 600 series with a 900 lb working load. I don't think you could crack that one with an 8 lb hammer.
I received the heavy SS Bellevilles and noticed a sharp edge on the bottom side so I used 200 and 400 grit Sandpaper to get a smooth edge on the bottom. I installed one in a 540 3.2 and it fit perfect. With the star as tight as I could get it by hand I had to use a heavy glove and wrap the line around my hand to get any line off of the spool and it was smooth but hard to pull. Groupers will suffer now. I will definitely install these on my 631s. At a 900 lb working load rating this washer will not break in a reel.
I sent a few to Alan if someone wants to beg for one or go to Mcmaster and order a dozen.
Read the update above.
Quote from: Newell Nut on May 03, 2013, 02:35:10 PM
Quote from: Newell Nut on April 26, 2013, 01:26:37 AM
Try McMaster Carr #9713k428 which is SS belleville spring washer that is the right size for the 500 and 600 series with a 900 lb working load. I don't think you could crack that one with an 8 lb hammer.
I received the heavy SS Bellevilles and noticed a sharp edge on the bottom side so I used 200 and 400 grit Sandpaper to get a smooth edge on the bottom. I installed one in a 540 3.2 and it fit perfect. With the star as tight as I could get it by hand I had to use a heavy glove and wrap the line around my hand to get any line off of the spool and it was smooth but hard to pull. Groupers will suffer now. I will definitely install these on my 631s. At a 900 lb working load rating this washer will not break in a reel.
I sent a few to Alan if someone wants to beg for one or go to Mcmaster and order a dozen.
Read the update above.
Thanks for sharing Newell Nut!
You guys awesome
I was just looking a P series schematic with the 4 stack drag. That is a very popular arrangement and when it was made the star pressed against a spacer bushing that had a wide thick bottom on it and no belleville washer was installed.
This causes me to ask those that have been around reel mods longer than I. Was the belleville washer added to the stack later as a safety device to fail before the reel came apart? Just a thought.
If this is the case and someone wanted to max the drag and risk reel destruction then the belleville could be replaced with a thick flat washer under the standard drag spacer bushing. Just thinking.
I'm working on a P235-M with a cracked belleville spring. I have been browsing this thread and need a little help with a replacement since I cannot find a schematic for this model. Any suggestions will be much appreciated! Jim
Penn part # 18-505
The thin Belleville in your hand is just a spacer between the star and handle and serves no purpose and can be tossed in the trash. All it did was fill a gap. If you back off the star too hard it will crack the little Belleville.
When upgrading drags the way we have been doing with 5 stacks there is no room for that spacer any more anyway.
If we are indeed talking about the same outside Belleville, I can send you one if want it. I have bunch of them in my workbench.
PM me if you want one.
Thank you guys! Newell Nut I will get back to you on your offer, THANKS!
Quote from: Newell Nut on January 10, 2014, 11:24:35 PM
The thin Belleville in your hand is just a spacer between the star and handle and serves no purpose and can be tossed in the trash. All it did was fill a gap. If you back off the star too hard it will crack the little Belleville.
When upgrading drags the way we have been doing with 5 stacks there is no room for that spacer any more anyway.
The washer I posted is not the one you mentioned. It goes on top of the drag stack.
If that's a thin belville on top of your stack, it shouldn't go there....it will crack every time. ;D As has been stated before, they were made to go between the handle and star, though they'll crack there also. I, too, no longer use them. Newell made a thick belville which is suppose to go on top of the stack. I don't recall having issues with them cracking. I did replace them years ago, however, with the aforementioned mentioned Penn belville. I get a tad more drag using the Penn belville.
On my original P's, I believe I have either of two configurations, though I'd have to check to be sure:
1) The standard ss drag spacer goes on top of the Penn belville (used to be the thick Newell belville)
2) the large ss drag spacer (looks like a top hat) goes on top of the last keyed ss washer.
Now, whenever I purchase Bryan's new 5+1 drag system, I'll have to experiment to see what works best. :D
Barkley
Tunacious is absolutely correct. The washers in the last picture are all that you should have and someone put that thin one on the inside by mistake.
If you do not have enough drag and find the star is touching he side plate then add another 3-18 washer between the star and the drag spacer bushing. KETA (Lee Putman) has those.
Earlier you said you could not find part numbers. Click on the Newell Tutorial Tab, then third item down is the schematics that you need for part numbers and where they go.
If you have more trouble sound off. We can get you fixed eventually.
Hello Guys re 220-5 fixing for a friend
lemme get this straight you totally do away with the p/n 3-142 belleville spring washer because hey crack I agree.
My problem the p/n 3-12 drag spacer sits too low and the star drag ( when fully tightened) hits and binds against the housing IE side plate. Seems thats partly due to the p/n 3-18 drag lockwasher that sits between the star drag and 3-12 drag spacer is crumbled and fell apart and gone.
In summary I can do away with the 3-142 but I still need the 3-18 drag lockwasher, what is the penn p/n ??
Also need the FL-662 which is a 6-40x5/8 stls stl fillister head screw locally n/a only place i found was mil spec at mcmaster carr pack of 25 for $13 any body got a source ?
thanks all for your help.
The drag spacer is recessed too much due to the need of new drags probably. I have the 3-18s that KETA fabricated for me and are SS. McMaster is a good source for the fillister head screw and the cheapest source as well. You may find some used ones on ebay but may cost more than a box 25 new ones.
The 3-142 only takes up space and no value.
PM me if you want a 3-18.
Don't forget the Penn 18-505 Beveled Washer for the top of the Drag Stack
Mike
Quote from: Newell Nut on July 03, 2014, 11:51:03 PM
The drag spacer is recessed too much due to the need of new drags probably. I have the 3-18s that KETA fabricated for me and are SS. McMaster is a good source for the fillister head screw and the cheapest source as well. You may find some used ones on ebay but may cost more than a box 25 new ones.
The 3-142 only takes up space and no value.
PM me if you want a 3-18.
I sent you a pm thank you very much I owe you one, saves me a headache.
This is a friends reel and another friend had installed a tiburon frame for him but DID NOT GREASE THE SCREW HOLES OR MATING SURFACES ONE SCREW HEAD JUST WENT POP ! WAS I PISSED, luckily there was enuff of the broken screw to work with, and the screw hole went thru the entire width of the frame, so, by dumping the frame in hot water and then constantly spraying it with PB blaster and slowly working it out.
The 6-40x5/8" fillister head stainless steel screws- I was wrong mcmaster carr only carries them up to 3/8" long hence too short that is a very odd size normal size is 6-32 i scoured the internet therefore i am going to have to buy a complete set from that guy on Ebay.
Getting ready to order a set of carbontex drags yea they do look a little crappy.
Quote from: bluefish69 on July 04, 2014, 03:16:24 AM
Don't forget the Penn 18-505 Beveled Washer for the top of the Drag Stack
Mike
Mike thanks for your reply I want to be sure we are talking the same part, please advise what is the newell p/n ?
I need the newell p/n 3-18 ( fell out in pieces) newell nut is kind enough to send me, which sits between the star and the drag spacer newell
p/n 3-12.
The 18-505 can be bought from Scott's at MysticParts.com. It is a very good replacement for the factory newell Belleville that sits right on top of the drag stag. If the original is good then don't worry about it. This is just a very good option and will fit any Newell.
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Quote from: SNAPS on July 04, 2014, 07:09:02 PM
Quote from: bluefish69 on July 04, 2014, 03:16:24 AM
Don't forget the Penn 18-505 Beveled Washer for the top of the Drag Stack
Mike
Mike thanks for your reply I want to be sure we are talking the same part, please advise what is the newell p/n ?
The Penn 18-505 is the replacement for the Newell Part #3-144
I need the newell p/n 3-18 ( fell out in pieces) newell nut is kind enough to send me, which sits between the star and the drag spacer newell
p/n 3-12.