i'm just full of good news this week. first the revo problem, now a problem with the shimano tyrnos. i have photos to follow, but the last five malaysian made tyrnos reels had drag washers that were crumbling. these were carbon fiber, but they were not woven in the same way that carbontex washers are woven. the inside diameter is 14mm, the outside diameter is 52.5mm and there are four screw holes at 19mm from center. photos to follow.
No! Not my favourite reel! I wait in anticipation.
Are the washers the same size as tld20/25s?
g'day whiteman the washers are not the same as the tld's they look about the same as the talica.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1007.0
tyrnos problems - 7/25/2010
hoo, boy! i'm just full of good news this week. i've opened 5 of these smaller tyrnos reels in a row and found something very strange.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_24_07_10_11_13_08_0.jpeg)
just what is this, you ask?
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_24_07_10_11_13_12_1.jpeg)
it's carbon fiber and it appears to be peeling off of the drag washer.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_24_07_10_11_13_15_2.jpeg)
it is literally being pulled off a handful at a time.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_24_07_10_11_13_18_3.jpeg)
remember the soft twisted yarn that we had when we were kids in school? yeah, that twisted stuff. it looks like the carbon fiber is just twisted and then glued on to the fiberglass backing plate.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_24_07_10_11_13_20_4.jpeg)
well, i can fix that (um, otherwise i wouldn't be posting this). it's smoothdrag.com to the rescue. i took a carbontex drag washer used in the shimano tld 20/25 and ground it down to fit this tyrnos.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_24_07_10_11_14_11_0.jpeg)
take a look at the different drag washers. on the left is a carbontex drag washer from smoothdrag.com. in the middle is a stock carbon fiber drag washer used in the shimano tld 20/30 two speed. and on the right is our tattered carbon fiber drag washer from the shimano tyrnos 16 two speed.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_24_07_10_11_14_13_1.jpeg)
note the very nice woven pattern to the carbontex drag washer. this is never flaking off.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_24_07_10_11_14_15_2.jpeg)
now the drag washer to the two speed tld. in the 10 years that i've been fiddling with these reels, i've never had one of these drag washer melt down. you can see the twisted "rope" of carbon fiber and how it is glued to the fiberglass backing plate.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_24_07_10_11_14_18_3.jpeg)
so what in the world happened happened to the tyrnos drag? i'm guessing they used the wrong type of adhesive, or they seriously missed a spot.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_24_07_10_11_14_20_4.jpeg)
i wonder if there truely is a difference between japanese shimano reels and malaysian shimano reels.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_24_07_10_11_14_22_5.jpeg)
so i spoke to a guy named chin at shimano usa in irvine, california, and explained the situation. he said that he had never heard of this problem before. well, he's heard of it now. if any of you call shimano and they say that they are unaware of this issue, have that person talk to chin. he knows........
Now that's ugly. I'll postpone my rebuild until I check out the reel and get a replacement drag washer.
naw, crank it open and take some pictures.
oh, and dawn, the inside diameter is 14 mm. the outside diameter is 52.5mm, and the four screw holes are at 19mm's. i have shimano sending me some replacements. i will mail one to you.
I just can't believe a fine upstanding, multi-billion a year company like Shimano would put something in a reel like that.......
Alan, what vintage are the reels?
That I do not know. I think they're all the same........
Holy smokes! That IS a mess! The photos of Dawn's washers clearly shows the quality of her product.
Regards,
David
Drag Washers in my Malaysian Tyrnos 20. Looks like the same material.
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae348/hawaiiansurfinboy/IMG_2339.jpg)
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae348/hawaiiansurfinboy/IMG_2340.jpg)
And to make matters worse, in unscrewing the aluminum cover on the drive side, the right screw in the pic breaks off. What the heck? Did they glue that puppy in or over tighten it?
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae348/hawaiiansurfinboy/IMG_2324.jpg)
I wonder if Shimano will do anything??? I'm thinking, I doubt it.
bryan, that reel was new in the box, never been fished, never even been spooled. i suspect a bad lot of drag washers for the smaller tyrnos reels. i've never seen a problem with the tld two speeds or tiagra reels. alan
I agree. Everyone/thing have a bad day once in a while, even great fishing reels.
I greased all metal parts, corrosion X other areas, packed the open spool bearing and now ready to load with line.
I'm just kinda bummed about the screw, but I'm sure it's not big deal. Just surprised me when it broke right off when I was unscrewing it by hand.
Alan, I noticed that you gave the measurements to Dawn at Smooth Drag. Are they going to manufacture some Carbontex drags for the Tyrnos series? There are some good deals on these reels now and if you can get a functional drag washer for them it sure would be nice.
Thanks,
Scott
Just got word from Shimano said that they would cover the replacement. I'm starting to like Shimano more and more. Last reel I bought with the Shimano badge prior was a twin drag spinner when I was living in Japan (which is still my fav. spinner).
With service and commitment to quality like this, I'm going to re-think my next reel purchases.
shimano, and every other reel company, has people that scour the internet looking for posts on their products.
they know ...........
I've noticed a massive change in the level of service from a couple of the bigger reel companies' local service departments here in Oz lately. I think that the much higher profile and level of discussion of reel maintenance is having some positive effects beyond just helping us all to look after our own gear, Alan!!
Cheers, T
so here's the "evolution" that i have seen. 10 years ago, a company would "buy" a representative on a particular board. it was usually someone of prominence and that person is offered gear at half price and there was some tacit understanding that this person would promote and defend the product on their internet board. if they tell people what the arrangement is ahead of time, then there is no problem. that did not always happen. and to make matters worse, sometimes the guys they picked let their egos get in the way and that's how fights got started. for the most part, i think that has stopped.
i think what happened was that reel manufacturers realized that this tactic was hurting their business. i think this lead to a change for the good. they started letting knowledable staff people identify themselves as company reps and honestly field questions. there was sometimes a limit to what they could say, but their answers were always civil and non-confrontational. they brought a level of professionalism to the discussion that had been sorely lacking. dan from shimano (magmaster on bloodydecks and bantam1 everywhere else), rick ozaki of avet, matt harper and ben seacrest of accurate, john bretza of okuma, and the unflappable steve carson (tunanorth) from penn, are examples of industry representatives of the highest caliber. as industry representatives, however, they must always answer a question by first saying "we believe......". it does not matter what their personal opinions are. they have to tow the company line.
still, this is a change and it is for the better. and when i get back, you'll get the full story on the okuma reels that i'm taking with me on my trip!
Alan when are you going to show a beef up of the Tyrnos 10?
honestly, it's going to be a long time. there are just so many worthy reels out there. the entire tyrnos line deserves discussion. they are great reels. each rebuild post takes a minumum 8 hours from start to finish. that's a whole day's worth of work. i just finished the makaira 8, the andros 5 and an essay on the importance of secondary education of adolescent girls in third world developing nations that my daughter needed help writing. that took 12 horus this last sunday, but we finished! i need a clone of me just to get the housework done!
Multi-tasking Alan, Multi-tasking.............
Hello every one!!!
Brand new member here.
Some of you may have seen me on the fishing boards??
I also live up here in the desert near Dawn & Smoothdrags, Hi Dawn!!!! (Frank Catalano)...
I just opened six (6) Brand new Trynos Reels 8, 10, 10, 12, 16, 20....!!!!!!
They all have the Bad/soft/decaying drag washer in them...
To late today to call Shimano, but you can bet I will be on the phone when they open Thur!!!
Is Shimano the only Way to go for the Washers right now, & are they replacing them free??
Saw some talk above about aftermarket Carbontex being made.... ???
Good to be here as a member, just recently found this place and havnt lurked for long, honest!! lol
.
frank, welcome! uggh, ok, i'm thinking it's time to start looking at a carbontex replacement washer. to get dawn off to a decent start, it would have to be coordiated with a rebuild post. that will be the hard part. :-\
but first, we need a new washer. dawn, what do you think? alan
I have to many to do a full Tutorial on them.
The guy wants all 17 (Seventeen) reels ready for Cabo in a couple of weeks !!! ???
But I can do a few quick pics as I get into them??
Will also Mic the washers for you, Dawn etc...
Have almost a full set from 8 to 20 size...
Ill also let ya know what Shimano says in the morning!!! ???
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/92345NessieHunter/TrynosotherReels.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/92345NessieHunter/TrynosotherReels001.jpg)
.
just spoke to matt at shimano. he is sending me two drag washers for the tyrnos 8 two speed. he now has only one left. they will back ordered until june. dawn, how fast can you have a drag washer made?
I just got off the phone with Dave at Shimano!!!
Was told policy is Send them in !!! With receipt for 1 tr warranty check...
They will determine if they qualify and fix or repair accordingly!!!!
BUT all the washers except 20 II are on back order until END OF JULY!!!!
WTF, Told him how pissed I was and needed options, he said there were no options that was "policy".
Prices;
Tryn 8 II = $8.33
Tryn 10 II = $8.33
Tryn 12 II = $10.41
Tryn 16 II = $10.41
Tryn 20 II = $20.45 (this one was in stock)
What do I do now?? I cant even get them to do the repairs!!! (according to Dave anyway)...
.
the guy i spoke to 20 minutes ago was named matt. i had him look at this post. you might want to call back and ask specifically for him. both he and chin are aware of this issue. matt said they had a batch with bad epoxy. new washers are en route. he will have a computer in front of him and he can go straight to this post. he can also look at the post that you have on bloody decks. we only get 10,000 hits a day. bloodydecks get a million a day!
when shimano gets the new batch of drag washers, they should be fine. honestly, though, you know dawn. call her, point her to this post and tell her that it is time to make a tyrnos drag washer set. we can support her with a series of rebuild posts on these reels. if we are going to ask her to do something for us, it is only fair that we do something for her in return.
I will get with Frank since he has all the reels handy, get the sizes etc and see what I can do.
It would probably take a month or so, get material, these I would get water cut, so it depends on when he can get to it also.
Dawn
shimano has treated me well over the year's. they have great service and friendly employee's. as for the drag washer i have no clue. they make a quality product and honor it well. it does take awhile to get through on the phone but they sure act fast. everything else i need i get through scott's bait and tackle
Read the above and called Matt!!! (been on the phone for almost an Hour with him)..
After telling me they were all just fine, and Alan had a lot of use on his reels so failure was expected??
The 2 new washers he sent to Alan were probably just the same as the ones that failed!! ::)
(check em out good Alan)!! lol
I gave him all the production numbers (round sticker on reel foot) he said 2 were of known bad quality the rest (4) were newer washers, with improved epoxy in them!!!!
Bad were = DK-P & FF-P # Prior to Aug 2008 production..
The GI-P, GH-P & FI-P were newer improved Epoxy type!!!
He continued that the new Epoxy and washers were made "after Aug 2008".. And Those would not be replaced at all,unless worn or other wise bad, or replaced with the same run of washers!!!!
And that would depend on Purchase date on Receipt !!!!
My argument...
The New ones GI, GH, FF have the softest spungiest materials and are sticking to the Drag plate, More then the 2 that are said to be Bad quality!!!!
The DK-P feels almost OK and not spungy?? The FF-P is terrible and is shredding!!! (the 2 # that were known as bad)
I understand that sending them in for inspection is probably the only way to get them on the list of defective run/replacement drags..
I told him we were not on the same page as what I was seeing/feeling was not what he was saying.
He said if I sent them in and the drags were replaced they would more then likely be the same material thats in them now!!!!
OK, I dont want to say anything that wont come out proper and I know Shimano puts out a good quality product and has some of the best Service etc in the world..
I have never had a problem with them and order a lot of parts, The best!!!
So Ill keep my mouth shut....
But will post this info on the boards!!
Maybe they will listen and save some other poor angler some heartache on the toad of a lifetime...
I will try and cut down some Larger Carbontex and fix this myself.. Dawn!! lol
.
the reels in question were brand new. i do not recall telling that to matt, nor do i recall him asking, but i've been in a robitussin haze for the last week, so who knows. i hate to see shimano continue to lose ground like this......... :-\
Alan,
Matt swore up & down that your reel was very well used..
Therefore mine should last also, no problem!!
Starting to sound Like Abu Garcia and the Kick lever?? lol
Needless to say I am very disappointed in them at this point..
Very Surprising, because Like most of you I have never had a problem with the service at Shimano before...
Big thanks to Dawn (again) we met today and she gave me some Carbontex to work with.
I always have to laugh. Im sure people at Vons think we are drug dealers.
Exchanging baggies in the parking lot!!! :o lmao
Im sure I can bang out some washers that will be much better then stock in these Trynos reels now.
She (Dawn) was amazed at the Washers I took out of these BRAND NEW Reels... Junk!!
.
just trying to give matt the benefit of the doubt. it never hurts to be nice....... ;D
I just bought 6 new Tyrnos 50IILRS reels and had them serviced. The guy that serviced them did not mention any drag issues but now I am second guessing the drags. Is this problem only associated with the smaller Tyrnos reels or has anyone seen it in the larger ones? The date code on the bottom of all six reels is HE-P.
Alan, Im not the best goodwill ambassador!!! LOL
I thanked matt several times and told him he was very helpfull and informative.
I was getting pissed at the run around and didnt want to say something wrong.
They (shimano) have all been the VERY BEST and I order from the on a regular basis..
Do you plan a post at any other very large sites (BD) about this??
I have seen a few comments on this issue, but also one that I posted on disappeared.
Or I lost it there?? Weird!
I have tried to get the close up pics like yours, but my cheap little camera doesnt get the details like yours.
As you said a Million hits a day, could make for some changes, or at least open some eyes!!!
No one is more respected then you when it comes to Reels & info!! People listen!!!
I know it was your tutorials that gave me the confidence to tear into my own reels 6+ yrs ago, and start this addictive hobby....
.
Making Carbontex Drag washer for the Trynos.. (didnt know where else to put this?).
This was easier then I thought it may be.
Again Big thanks goes to Dawn...
Now I am confident that these reels will have the Best drags For Cabo fishies!!
Starting with a TLD 20 single speed Washer. This a close fit for the Trynos 20 II.
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/92345NessieHunter/MakingDragWashers001.jpg)
Same main body Diameter.
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/92345NessieHunter/MakingDragWashers002.jpg)
Cut the Ears off the TLD washer and Notch the newly forming Trynos washer.!!!
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/92345NessieHunter/MakingDragWashers003.jpg)
Starting to look pretty good...
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/92345NessieHunter/MakingDragWashers004.jpg)
Cut the center to fit Trynos... Almost done..... (with #1 of 6)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/92345NessieHunter/MakingDragWashers005.jpg)
WOW!! Sweet, fits as close to perfect as it gets.
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/92345NessieHunter/MakingDragWashers006.jpg)
For the smaller Trynos, 16, 12, 10 & 8. Done have any washer that fit the smaller center hole. Tese washer are held in place by Screws also, so have to have right ID & screw holes...
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/92345NessieHunter/MakingDragWashers007.jpg)
That was not hard at all, Thanks Dawn the Scissors worked super great!!!
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/92345NessieHunter/MakingDragWashers008.jpg)
Cut the center with Exacto knife and punch holes with Awl/pick.
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/92345NessieHunter/MakingDragWashers009.jpg)
Awesome.. They are close to perfect IMHO!! Im sure they will out perform the stock washer by a long shot, and add some Drag pressure, plus last a lifetime!!!
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/92345NessieHunter/MakingDragWashers010.jpg)
.
Wow...awesome work Frank!
Did you get the Carbontex sheet from Dawn?
Quote from: edgarz on March 21, 2011, 12:55:04 PM
Did you get the Carbontex sheet from Dawn?
Yes I did, I do not know if she sells it like that though?????
This may have been an experiment to get info for her to make the Trynos washers???
Sure wouldnt hurt to ask though....
Dawn dont kill me if your phone rings off the hook!! LOL
that ringing phone is the sound of money. i'm sure she will be ok if the phone rings more. ;D
as far as shimano goes, nothing we do here will make a difference with them. shots are called in japan. they have no choice but to follow orders. well, they can quit. that is their only other choice. it's a much different situation with okuma. do you think shimano would make a new reel in 6 months just because i said it would be a good idea?
Dawn will have the carbontex drag washers for the Tyrnos in about a month. She will post their availability both on her site and here on Alan Tani's site. She would prefer that people do NOT order them until she has them in stock. I recently picked up an 8II and a 12II and will replace the drag washers once they become available.
Great work Dawn.. Glad to see another set of drags in the line up...
Pretty screwed timing for me..
I have some material, but am leaving town for couple of weeks (11 days)..
Dang I could of cleaned up!!! lol
Thanks for the update albacore11.....
Thanks for the info Nessie Hunter.
Quote from: alantani on March 23, 2011, 12:24:33 AM
do you think shimano would make a new reel in 6 months just because i said it would be a good idea?
Alan: You never know. Like the man said, it doesn't hurt to ask ::). Dominick
i have some pretty new Tyrnos 50w 2 speeds that arent smooth at all and im guessing this is the problem. Looks like ill be calling Dawn. Ive never taken a reel apart so this should be fun. Im good with needles but not tools.
Quote from: rod27 on April 24, 2011, 01:31:56 PM
i have some pretty new Tyrnos 50w 2 speeds that arent smooth at all and im guessing this is the problem. Looks like ill be calling Dawn. Ive never taken a reel apart so this should be fun. Im good with needles but not tools.
Rod27, If made in Malaysia Im sure, from what is said in all the posts above, that they are the Poor quality washers...
If you are having less then smooth drag being pulled out, I would change them before you have a catastrophic failure while on a quality fish!!
An Once of prevention thing...
My 2 cents!! for what its worth. (about 2 cents, would be my guess, LMAO).... ;D
.
i took them apart and both were made in Malaysia...but the drags looked fine. I put them back together as per the great instructions here and on the Shimano website and the drags seem smooth. Will hopefully catch some fish with them this week.
were the bearings dry?
Not really sure since I didn't know to notice since I was putting some corrosion-x anyway.
just got 2 Tyrnos 8 and will be ordereing new washers asap. Tore into them to check it out and pre-grease/lube EVERYTHING before they hit the sea. Just noticed that the lever drag isn't working correctly now. They were set to free spool with zero drag tension and put back together in same positions ???
Any ideas on how to fix? Do you guys (Alan & Frank) run into this problem or do you not remove the lever drag? :-[
Try unscrewing the preset knob (take off), the pulling the cam and try again, maybe rotating it aligning the detent of the cam with the indent of the lever hub.
make sure the lever is in the free position when you install the cam and preset knob.
Quote from: Bryan Young on July 22, 2011, 01:47:43 PM
Try unscrewing the preset knob (take off), the pulling the cam and try again, maybe rotating it aligning the detent of the cam with the indent of the lever hub.
This fixed it, thanks. Now I just need a new drag washer.
Well done!!!
Dawn at Smoothdrags has the Carbontex washers for the Trynos 8..
Best upgrade you can do for it IMHO.....
Just used one of the Trynos Reels I did for Othan ("O") in my Pics. On a 2 day tuna trip (BFT & YFT & YT & Dorado). "O" Landed 2 BFT in the 40/45+# range in about a 20 min span (thats 2 in 20 min)!!!!
Impressive as heck...
Dang Im spoiled now and want a "set" of them for myself.. Nice reels...
.
Hi All,
As of just recently the Australian imports of the Tyronos 10II still have this issue, I assumed they would and basically factored in the cost of the Carbontex upgrade as part of the purchase price of the reel. The drag is now awesome. ;D
One of the reels also suffered from a screw on the drag clicker side of the spool assembly that sheared off at the base of the head upon removal. ??? Minimal force was applied and needless to say this was a major pain in the neck when it came time for extraction of the remainder of the screw.
Cheers,
John.
I had that happen to me. Sent it into shimano and got a new part. Glad you got a screw out.
I have really grown to like these reels a lot....
(especially when they are on sale)!!!
Feed back from the ones I did;
They are kept in Cabo on a panga fleet "O" is 1/2 owner of..
Pino's Pangas....
http://www.pinospangas.com/
He says they have stayed very smooth and even his Customers have made good comments on the quality and function of his equipment.
He has other reels also besides the Trynos ~ Tiagra's etc..
One set of customers talked about prior trips & the reels fading on big fish BUT these stayed strong & Smooth on long hard fights, they gave him praise for his equipment!!!
He is very happy with them!!! Needles to say...
.
for the money, they are a great deal!
I was about to order some more carbontex drag kits when I read this thread. Sure enough I checked my Tyrnos 8 and I have the dodgy drag washers too. My list grows.
I know this is an old topic, but I'm thinking of a 50 2 speed model. Has shimano resolved the drag problem or are you still seeing it?
The drag problem was only with the 8s and 10s. The larger reels were fine.
thank you
Quote from: Bryan Young on June 15, 2012, 03:17:32 AM
The drag problem was only with the 8s and 10s. The larger reels were fine.
Bryan, Not true.. (sorry buddy).. :-)
I found almost every Trynos had the mushy Washers (some worse then others, but all substandard IMHO) up to size 20 that I worked on.
Many that Shimano said were not on their bad list....
Do yourself a favor and replace them, cheap insurance!!!!
.
Nessie,
I've worked on a bunch of these reels, and although I too believe they are not the greatest, they did not bust apart like the ones in the 8 and 10s. These are pressed between 2 metal and if it slides smoothly, you would not have a problem. If the drags are jerky, then the drags would come apart.
They still worked fine. If you wanted to bup up the drags, then I would definitely recommend using carbontex drags, which some would have to be modified because of size availability.
First post, time to stop lurking...thanks for all the info BTW!!
I've got an 8, definitely got the dodgy drag washers.
Two other things that I need advice on.
1 - I need to turn the selector knob until there is light drag on, before the reel will freespool (as much as they do)
2 - When I engage the lever up to the strike position, and disengage back, the reel does not slide back, and hence it wont freespool. a light tap on the selector and the reel slips back and can freespool.
I cant see anything out of order, but then I'm not sure what to look for. Any help appreciated.
the spool rides on the spool bearings, and the spool bearings ride on the spool shaft. in order to pop in an out of freespool, the spool bearings need to slide back and forth a little. that is not happening. pull the spool shaft, clean it up a little, add some corrosion x and you should be good.
Thanks Alan, will give that a try and report back ! :-)
take photos!
I bought a new Tyrnos 8 at Big 5 for $99. Seemed like a cute reel and good deal. Now I read all about the drag washer problems. Does anyone know if the JD-P series (the one I bought) has the same issues? I see Smooth drag is selling their Carbontex washers for this for $12.
I can still take this thing back since it's NIB. My other choice for a similar reel would be the Avet SX 5.3 which would set me back another $40 on sale. (Or maybe I should snag a TLD 20 lol. I'm so confused. :P)
Anyway, I was thinking this would make a nice little live bait reel for the stuff we see off San Diego in the summer/fall. Was thinking of spooling it with 30 lb Spectra + top shot. Not sure if would work well to go to 40.
I picked up a 8 two speed last year at the clearance price and did the drag upgrade from Smoothdrag. One warning though is the screws that hold the cooling shield in place are small with tiny heads and you do have to remove the cooling shield to replace the drag washer. They used thread locker on these screws, they are hard to beak loose and I stripped one. I was finally able to get it out and Shimano sent out a replacement screw at no charge.
I did a full pre fishing service to the reel which included cleaning out the spool bearings and relubing with TSI 321. The reel freespool's nicely now but I have yet to catch anything worthwhile on it.
If you don't mind doing this stuff and can live with the racquet the anti reverse dogs make do it. But, for a single speed where parts will be available for many years I'd go with the Avet.
Been lurking here for a longtime. Thank you Alan and others who contribute here for one of the best sites I have seen for practical use. A credit to all.
Opened up a brand new Tyrnos 30 that was a prize given in a category for a recent Competition, and found this.......
(http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j393/westozwayward/photo_zps4b11b6c5.jpg)
Batch code was KL-P.
Seems as though its not just the small Tyrnos' that have the problem. Looks like I'll have to order from Dawn soon.
Thanks to this forum for giving me the confidence and some background knowledge to take on fixing and maintaining reels.
they must be getting their fiber washers from the same place. can i get you to repost this in the "other" section as well. they are great photos!
OK will post the handle pix with a little more explaination later.
Forgot to post this one re. the Tyrnos.
Are the drag plates supposed to be grooved as in this photo (if you can make them out!). I suspect not. Have never seen drag plates grooved like this. Appears to be tool marks from manufacture? Any thoughts?
(http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j393/westozwayward/photo_zps8af5059a.jpg)
the tool marks are concentric, so they will be fine.
There are a number or washers like that..Stella comes to mind
Thanks for the thoughts re. the grooves. Can't get my head past the thought that those grooves will be slicing through the drag washer weave. Very tempted to lapp the grooves out and then polish the plate to a mirror finish.
They should at least be smooth? not rough to the touch...on ocassion I have lightly laped various washers..1200 grit on a glass board or similar
Was thinking the same thing Clem, although these ridges will probably need something a bit heavier to remove. Will probably have to work from 600 up.
Its gotta wait, got a date with some SBT's this weekend......lots of SBT's!
Would just like to add as a follow-up for those reading this from Australia. Took the photos show to a local tackle shop, and then showed them this thread. They got in contact with Shimano Australia, and am pleased to say, they sent through a new washer, one of better quality, with no charge. Thank-you to you guys at Shimano Aus. if you're reading this.
Unfortunately, they had a heap of other Tyrnos from the same batch number in the warehouse. At least they are aware there could be an issue with the quality of the drag washers, and they are keen to support customers with replacements.
would anyone have the metric size to suit the bearings on a trynos 20
pete
Hi all have got a question about the Tyrnos 30 and its drag capabilities, I was in a light tackle comp on the weekend and had a problem with setting the drag to 3kgs. Is this normal or is there something I can do to improve it, I already have a greased carbon tek washer in it and use Cals drag grease (the tan coloured one). Any ideas would be great as light tackle season just starting here in Cairns.
Thanks
Mark
would it not stay at 3kg, or could you just not dial it back far enough. i would not have though that a light setting would be a problem. :-\
Hi Alan, the problem was getting it there it seem to jump from .5 to 4kg and after setting it on first morning relatively easily the following morning it registered .5 and was difficult to get right. I service reels here and any info would be great.
So, just saw this thread and I see that my Tyrnos 12II is made in Malaysia and has the bad codes. So my question is, can I trust that Shimano has addressed this quality issue with the drag washer by now and get an OEM washer or just get one from Dawn?
TIA
I have found many to be fine. The material is that loopy spongy carbon fiber carpet looking disk. Personally, at lower drag setting, you will be fine, but if you are using braid, I would go with CarbonTex for sure.
Thanks Bryan. Yes, I'm using braid with a mono TS. Mono is 40# so that equates to 10 lbs of drag. I'm going on a trip on Monday and would like to use the reel, so I'll try to look at it this weekend, if not once I return.
Rob
Try it out with the current drag material. if you don't like how it feels, order a new drag washer from Dawn at SmoothDrag.
I'm still not 100% convinced Shimano is on top of the issue with the drag washers on these. The following pix are of the drag washer from a 30 II, that has been fished out of the box for less than 12 months with light use. Bits are falling off, and in the second photo you can see the carbon weave pulling away from the composite backing. Batch code is KG-P.
Shimano Aus. is sending me a bag to send the entire reel to them for inspection. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.....
(http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j393/westozwayward/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zpsb481e8e1.jpg) (http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/westozwayward/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zpsb481e8e1.jpg.html)
(http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j393/westozwayward/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zps2ae1c597.jpg) (http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/westozwayward/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zps2ae1c597.jpg.html)
Just to follow up on this drag washer fault, with a (yet another) example of how "service" is provided in this country.
I have previously posted in this thread about the faults with the washers on this line of reels.
In reply #78 Shimano Aus were very helpful with providing replacement washers, with no charge. They acknowledged there was a problem, and apparently had a re-call of the same batch coded reels to check how big a problem it was (as I had been told by the tackle shop who provided the reels).
Two years on, and things are vastly different. I rang Shimano Aus about this, and straight away I was told by the person at the other end of the line (who I know for a fact was working at Shimano Aus 2 years ago, as I had personally spoken to him about another issue with a Tiagra at this time) who denied he had ever heard of problems with the delaminating of the carbon off the composite backing in this series of reels.
I told them that this fault had been pointed out on this forum dating back to 2010, and about how Shimano had supplied two replacement washers through the local tackle shop for the reels in the previous posts.
This he also denied would have ever happened.
He then says he would like to see the reel, and that they would send a return bag to me so it could be delivered to their service centre for their inspection. I cleared this with the reel's owner, and he was happy to go through this process, even with the lost time of usage on his reel.
Two days later, a courier turns up with the return bag. Not only is it of in-sufficient size to contain the reel, but also I apparently had to pay postage to send the reel to them, when it was their request to inspect it.
So I rang them again, and discussed the problem. I got put onto someone different, who also claimed he had never heard of this delaminating problem. The conversation was kept civil, but I did express that I thought it was unfair for me to be charged (and ultimately the owner) to post the reel to them.
So they agreed to send a larger pre-paid bag.
I waited 5 days, and nothing turned up.
So I took matters into my own hands.
I ordered some 1.2mm thick CF sheet from http://m.ebay.com/itm/111495328332?nav=SEARCH
This arrived from the US in 8 days.
About 45mins work and I have the new washer made
(http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j393/westozwayward/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zps66e6fd7d.jpg) (http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/westozwayward/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zps66e6fd7d.jpg.html)
The original washer, carbon lifts off easily using your fingernail
(http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j393/westozwayward/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zps02e7d156.jpg) (http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/westozwayward/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zps02e7d156.jpg.html)
(http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j393/westozwayward/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zps5c8a8697.jpg) (http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/westozwayward/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zps5c8a8697.jpg.html)
Greased this new washer up with Cal's. Drag is silky smooth, and ramps up as per the original. And I feel this aftermarket CF sheet has superior bonding of the carbon to the inner laminate. The reel's owner is very happy with the result, and very disappointed with Shimano Aus's service and support.
And I'm still waiting for the second pre-paid bag......
Quote from: Rothmar2 on April 04, 2013, 04:59:32 AM
OK will post the handle pix with a little more explaination later.
Forgot to post this one re. the Tyrnos.
Are the drag plates supposed to be grooved as in this photo (if you can make them out!). I suspect not. Have never seen drag plates grooved like this. Appears to be tool marks from manufacture? Any thoughts?
(http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j393/westozwayward/photo_zps8af5059a.jpg)
While there may be other reels that exhibit machine "grooves" in the pressure plate, I can't help look back at the polished mirror finish plates of the old TLD series. You could actually see your reflection!
However, I have discovered a much more serious flaw with Tyrnos pressure plates. It seemed that on one reel I did, the outer rim of the plate had an edge that was chewing up the drag washer. Upon lapping the plate, it became evident that the surface was highly irregular. I checked a second one and same again. Seems that these plates are a long way from true.
At first I naturally worked under the assumption that they were basically flat to start with. So I started with 1200 grit but I am now working my way down through coarser grades. What I am seeing here is pretty disturbing - a couple of isolated high spots while the bulk of the plate exhibits zero contact. Obviously this is not going to yield anywhere near optimal performance in a protracted game contest. This is some very poor machining from Shimano.
I happen to own one of these reels myself. Gonna have to pull it down now and see what the pressure plate in mine looks like.
~
Quote from: Rothmar2 on March 12, 2015, 01:22:46 AM
...
Shimano Aus. is sending me a bag to send the entire reel to them for inspection. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.....
(http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j393/westozwayward/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zpsb481e8e1.jpg) (http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/westozwayward/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zpsb481e8e1.jpg.html)
(http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j393/westozwayward/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zps2ae1c597.jpg) (http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/westozwayward/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zps2ae1c597.jpg.html)
The groved plate is disconcerting, and the highly irregular/untrue surface even more so. This seems to be a quality control issue. It will be interesting to hear what the good folks at Shimano have to say regarding these issues.
Likely, little will be said other then sending out replacement parts or a new reel.
John
QuoteHowever, I have discovered a much more serious flaw with Tyrnos pressure plates. It seemed that on one reel I did, the outer rim of the plate had an edge that was chewing up the drag washer. Upon lapping the plate, it became evident that the surface was highly irregular. I checked a second one and same again. Seems that these plates are a long way from true.
At first I naturally worked under the assumption that they were basically flat to start with. So I started with 1200 grit but I am now working my way down through coarser grades. What I am seeing here is pretty disturbing - a couple of isolated high spots while the bulk of the plate exhibits zero contact. Obviously this is not going to yield anywhere near optimal performance in a protracted game contest. This is some very poor machining from Shimano.
I happen to own one of these reels myself. Gonna have to pull it down now and see what the pressure plate in mine looks like.
~
Finally got time between reels to finish off my Tyrnos 20 and naturally checked out the pressure plate.
Whilst it was slightly concave, it was still consistent and did not exhibit the isolated high spots of the 16's that I checked so overall I am pretty happy.
The stock carbon washer was pretty ragged though, despite the reel having seen hardly any use, so it was replaced with custom carbontex courtesy of my mate Tim who did a brilliant job.
Thanks Tim :)
~