Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Spinning Reel Rebuild Tutorials and Questions => Zangi => Topic started by: Midway Tommy on April 03, 2020, 04:15:03 AM

Title: Orvis 100
Post by: Midway Tommy on April 03, 2020, 04:15:03 AM
A few weeks or so ago I decided to open up this old Orvis 100 and do a tutorial on it. These Italian made reels really don't get enough respect. They are quite collectible but their quality is right up there with most of the quality open face spinning reels from that era. This specific model, with the knurled plastic handle knob and offered in 1954, was the second version sold by Orvis. Orvis' first model was called the Pelican 100. The only difference between the two reels is that the Pelican 100 has a raised Pelican on the side instead of the jumping Trout. The next version, 1962, has a flat paddle style knob. I purchased this reel a few years ago as a parts reel. It was stiff, the rotor would stop part way around, the bail spring was weak & wouldn't close without help and the anti-reverse wouldn't release. Once I opened it up I could see there was no reason not to make it totally functional once again. It really didn't have a lot of bulky grease, just old stuff that was stiff.

After disassembly I did my usual process of soaking all the unpainted metal parts in my lacquer thinner jar. I did my normal Original White Goop & warm water Dawn wash on all the painted and plastic parts. After a couple of days soaking, good cleaning and buffing here are all the parts ready to reassemble.

(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/17004_28_03_20_8_34_25_32323570.jpeg)

I started with the spool. The drag stack consists of one thin flat washer, two spring washers, the top keyed washer and a retaining sleeve. The holes in the top washer are to keep the drag knob from turning when the detent balls are in the holes. I made, and added, a mylar washer at the bottom of the stack.

(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/17004_28_03_20_8_34_28_32347812.jpeg)

The click spring was broken so I made a new one out of some sheet brass I keep on hand for just these type of issues. You never know when you might have to fabricate an obsolete part.

(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/17004_28_03_20_8_34_29_32348318.jpeg)

As usual, before my hands get all greasy I install the bail trip, bail spring and bail arm. Most Zangi made reels only use one bail spring. I use ArmorAll as a lubricant in these locations because it stays slick and doesn't collect dirt & grime. Zangi often used a plunger type rod as a bail trip. The rod slides inside a spring in a tube in the rotor and is retained in the tube by the bail arm. After the bail trip & bail arm are installed I'll check the bail for perfect alignment and bend, or adjust it, where necessary, and then install it.

(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/17004_28_03_20_8_34_24_323232376.jpeg)

Here you can see the bail trip plunger. At this point I set the rotor aside to install later.

(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/17004_28_03_20_8_34_27_323461694.jpeg)

I start the body assembly with the anti-reverse pivot & knob. This reel has kind of a unique spring design. It is a flat springy metal strip that sits in a slot and is kept in place by a screw. There is a ratchet gear on the back side of the main gear and the flat strip spring wedges against a ratchet gear tooth. The knob is retained on the pivot by a pin. All the internal parts get lubed with Super Lube grease and synthetic oil. I grease every screw hole for easier removal down the road.

(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/17004_28_03_20_8_34_30_323492376.jpeg)

It's time to install the pinion worm gear. The pinion worm gear rides full length in a removable oilite bushing/sleeve. The bushing is retained in place with a slot and by a screw. There is a hole in the body and oilite bushing so the worm gear and ball bearing can easily be lubricated when the side plate is removed.

(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/17004_28_03_20_8_34_31_32349926.jpeg)

Next step is to install the bearing between the body and rotor. This model has a plastic retaining washer with five holes and balls sandwiched between two metal washers. It also has a felt washer that goes against the body and is probably meant to reduce noise. I  prefer slower greased lubricated ball bearings so I lubricate them with Super Lube grease and then add a little oil to thin the grease. There are two threaded bail trip studs. The bail will trip in two locations, top and bottom.

(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/17004_28_03_20_8_34_33_32351221.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/17004_28_03_20_8_34_33_32351819.jpeg)

It's now time to slip in the main gear, snug up the locking nuts and install the rotor. The main gear and worm gear need to be meshed correctly before tightening the rotor nut. The rotor nut, like most Zangi made reels, is reverse thread, i.e. lefty tighten. Many an unknowing owner has cracked one of those brass reverse thread nuts and they're near impossible to find. It doesn't take much wrong way torque to break them.

(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/17004_28_03_20_8_34_36_323532258.jpeg)

Now the main shaft and oscillation gear get installed. Like I said earlier, all the internal parts get greased with Super Lube & synthetic oil. The oscillation arm attaches to the main shaft with a threaded pin. The oscillation arm attaches to the main gear with a reverse thread screw. There is a thin spacing washer between arm and gear.

(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/17004_28_03_20_8_34_36_323531533.jpeg)


It's time to adjust the main gear and tighten the lock nuts. I use two small spanner wrenches to tighten the notched nuts against each other. Internals are all done so now it's time to install the handle knob (I use ArmorAll here, too), handle, side plate, under spool felt washer, spool and drag knob. I completely unscrewed the handle mechanism to remove it. That should not be done. The flat threaded part should remain in the main gear and the handle retaining pin, only, should be removed. The threads inside the main gear have been crimped to keep the handle from easily being removed or unthreading. I forgot about that function and took it out anyway. It ended up not being a big deal but it took me a long time to get it out and I had to figure out a way to recrimp it when I put it back together.   

(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/17004_28_03_20_8_34_39_32355270.jpeg)

It's all back together, cleaned up nicely and works like new!

(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/17004_28_03_20_8_34_39_3235593.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/17004_28_03_20_8_34_41_323571804.jpeg)

It feels good to take a morgue bound reel and put it back into fish catching condition. These little Orvis reels don't get the respect they deserve. They're old time quality and engineering that will compete with just about any from that time period.
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: basto on April 03, 2020, 05:37:08 AM
Very interesting reel Tommy. Thanks for your efforts presenting it to us.
Greg
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: Tiddlerbasher on April 03, 2020, 10:06:48 AM
Thank you Tommy I never even new they existed.
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: mo65 on April 03, 2020, 10:15:04 AM
   Great tutorial Tom. I've been lurking for an Orvis 50 for ages...they just don't pop up for peanuts...a very collectible reel. Thanks for the tour of the inner works! 8)
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: Donnyboat on April 03, 2020, 11:53:41 AM
Very interesting Tommy, nice job, & good pics, thank, cheers Don.
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: foakes on April 03, 2020, 02:25:44 PM
Nice breakdown, Tom --

I have only worked on 3 or 4 of the 100 and a couple more of the next size up in these Orvis spinners.

Needed to make click springs on (2) of them, similar to your technique.

Decent quality -- and these smaller ones are pretty valuable.

Best,

Fred
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: festus on April 03, 2020, 03:32:58 PM
 Great job, Tommy!  Those old loose ball bearing reels aren't too bad to service if the reel technician is expecting them.
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: swede 53 on April 03, 2020, 04:33:19 PM
Really appreciate these tutorials.Tommy,is this the same company that made the Ted Williams spinners for Sears,I have some of the skirted spool models that Daiwa made but didn't know if their Italian built models would have the worm drive like these.
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: Midway Tommy on April 03, 2020, 07:18:10 PM
Quote from: swede 53 on April 03, 2020, 04:33:19 PM
Really appreciate these tutorials.Tommy,is this the same company that made the Ted Williams spinners for Sears,I have some of the skirted spool models that Daiwa made but didn't know if their Italian built models would have the worm drive like these.

Yes. Early Ted Williams models (1954-mid '70s) were made in Italy by Zangi. While there are some minor differences, like standard bearings, etc., their design and servicing take down would be similar. Shakespeare also made five models, III, IV, VI, 470 & 930 (2052, 2062, 2081, 2062 & 2091-A), in the late '60's into the early '70s. By the mid '70s pretty much all Ted Williams reels were made in Japan.

Also, Zangi made reels for Sears. Those reels have a sticker decal. They were phased out when Williams became an adviser in 1962, and subsequent reels came under the Ted Williams moniker. Some of them say Sears & have stickers, some have numbers & some have both.   
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: El Pescador on April 03, 2020, 07:48:20 PM
Midway!!!!

How about these reels???

The Pelican 100 you mentioned above, but the Bermuda 100 reels - same story as the Orvis 100 Manufacturer???  

(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/7588_03_04_20_12_44_31_32462330.png)

Viewed a Bermuda 100 reel on eBay while vacating in Bermuda, but for the last bid of $200 I left THAT REEL alone!!!!   Kept my $$$.

Wayne
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: Midway Tommy on April 03, 2020, 10:54:41 PM
Quote from: El Pescador on April 03, 2020, 07:48:20 PM
Midway!!!!

How about these reels???

The Pelican 100 you mentioned above, but the Bermuda 100 reels - same story as the Orvis 100 Manufacturer???  

Viewed a Bermuda 100 reel on eBay while vacating in Bermuda, but for the last bid of $200 I left THAT REEL alone!!!!   Kept my $$$.

Wayne

Wayne,

Those are later versions with the paddle style knob. They're similar to 100A just a different color. Not much is known about the Bermuda 100. It's thought it was made for a specific US market. It would be cool to own either of those. It is interesting to note that that color combo was also used on Zangi made True Temper spinners.

The first Orvis Pelican 100s were painted silverish or goldish tan colors. Those paints chipped & peeled a lot. Next came the anodized Pelican 100s, then the Orvis 100.   
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: happyhooker on April 04, 2020, 01:36:00 AM
Way to go, Tommy; often hear about these reels but seldom see the details about them.

Wayne's reels caught my eye too.

Frank
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: swede 53 on April 04, 2020, 02:19:39 PM
         Great info on the Ted Williams and Sears spinners,didn't know about the Shakespeare connection.Thanks.
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: mark Hill on May 08, 2020, 05:46:32 PM
Great pictures and tutorial.... Tommy thanks for sharing. I ended up making a new bail trip plunger and my Orvis is in action again!  :) :)
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: Midway Tommy on May 08, 2020, 06:25:42 PM
Quote from: mark Hill on May 08, 2020, 05:46:32 PM
Great pictures and tutorial.... Tommy thanks for sharing. I ended up making a new bail trip plunger and my Orvis is in action again!  :) :)

Good for you, Mark!
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: mark Hill on May 21, 2020, 02:56:25 AM
 Thanks! I'm a big fan of using vintage lightweight and even some ultralight weight spinning reels when I out chucking smaller baits for smallmouth. The Orvis is a really nice reel for throwing hair jigs and smaller plastics. These old school worm gear style reels are serious old workhorses. I'm so happy to have found a site where people appreciate the classics like I do... AND, that know these reels inside and out like you all do. I'm getting much better on my personal reel repairs and now I'm learning so much from you guys....many thanks.
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: tristan on May 26, 2021, 07:20:05 PM
Tommy, thanks for this tutorial.

I've got a order coming in with 2 (hopefully) complete reels, some spools, and a spare chassis.

It appears it may be someone's project parts set that got moved on.   Time will tell...   

Hope to get them completely serviced and ready to mount to some old-school light rods I've picked up.

So the rotor nuts are unobtanium?    'Cause that extra chassis will be calling out to me in the night until I get it complete.    ;)
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: Midway Tommy on May 26, 2021, 09:49:20 PM
Quote from: tristan on May 26, 2021, 07:20:05 PM
Tommy, thanks for this tutorial.

I've got a order coming in with 2 (hopefully) complete reels, some spools, and a spare chassis.

It appears it may be someone's project parts set that got moved on.   Time will tell...   

Hope to get them completely serviced and ready to mount to some old-school light rods I've picked up.

So the rotor nuts are unobtanium?    'Cause that extra chassis will be calling out to me in the night until I get it complete.    ;)

Most of the parts for the Italian made Orvis reels are difficult to find. You either have to find used parts, a donor reel or make them. I bought a reverse thread tap a few years back to make a rotor nut for one Italian made reel. I don't remember for sure which brand it was, but it wasn't an Orvis. They're all similar, just different size pinions & threading.
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: tristan on May 28, 2021, 08:42:30 PM
Well, my package arrived.

Seller noted a problem with a handle that I just can't find.   :shrug:

These look to be very sweet, old school light reels!   I'm looking forward to doing a cleanup and  service on them both.

It appears the handle crank spacers (gear rings?) require a special tool to remove.   What tool should I look for to remove them?  

Also, both reels do have a somewhat metal-on-metal sound when cranking, definitely sounds like its coming from the interface between the body and rotor.  Is this typical?

Tommy, did the washer upgrade you made work to quiet it down?    I'll be looking for thin acetal or delrin washers to add.   (hope to score a washer-cutter set one day...)

Anything particular I should watch out for when disassembling or reassembling, beyond the reverse-thread rotor nut?


Thanks in advance...
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: Danwin22 on May 28, 2021, 09:41:37 PM

Very interesting.

Were these considered ultralight? 
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: tristan on May 28, 2021, 10:17:11 PM
Definitions vary, but I'd call them Light to Ultralight.

The drags seem like they would be suited to perhaps 10lb line at the absolute max.   WAG on my part.

I'm going to be trying them with 4-8lb. mono.
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: philaroman on May 28, 2021, 11:49:09 PM
L/ML, actually -- UL is 50/51 size
noticeably smaller  :)  noticeably more $$$  :(
Tom has it next to a 150 & 3-100's, here:
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=22628.msg360914;topicseen#msg360914
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: Midway Tommy on June 01, 2021, 05:36:46 AM
As Phil said, the 100 & 100A are light/medium light, the 50A/51A is considered UL.

QuoteIt appears the handle crank spacers (gear rings?) require a special tool to remove.   What tool should I look for to remove them?
Spanner wrenches similar to these are are what works best. I picked up mine a few years ago on da Bay for a couple of bucks. 
(https://alantani.com/gallery/27/17004_02_04_19_8_03_16_274732216.jpeg)

QuoteAlso, both reels do have a somewhat metal-on-metal sound when cranking, definitely sounds like its coming from the interface between the body and rotor.  Is this typical?

Yes, pretty typical on these old reels with the sandwich type bearing. There should be a felt washer (8th photo) that goes between the rear bearing washer and the body to help dampen noise, but the balls rolling against the washers do make a little noise. They usually quiet down a little bit once there's a grease film on the balls and both washers. Also, the Mylar washer I added in the spool has nothing to do with gear or rotation noise.   
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: tristan on June 08, 2021, 10:50:31 PM
Thanks for the info, Tommy!

The reels I picked up have some issues with removing the screws inside the case to allow the removal of the shaft.   Tight, tight, tight.   Need to soak them thoroughly in kroil and hope they break loose.    Don't want to mess them up or break anything.

And I always wondered what those tools were!    LOL.     Now I know.   ;)

I'll try to find one somewhere... 

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: Christopher M Songer on July 13, 2021, 04:11:53 PM
This is outstanding. A gentleman dropped off his Orvis 100 for me to look at his bail spring. He got one on the Bay but it is not working. He said he bent it to make it fit! I could not find any info on this but sure enough you guys have all the info I need. Have not taken the bail off to even look at the spring yet. Wish me luck. Hoping I do not need to find another bail spring.  Well, I just opened it guess what, that new spring is not good. On he left is the old thick coil bail spring. On the right is what ever he got off Eww Bay.
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: 6thMichCav on July 13, 2021, 05:00:37 PM
Bet you can make a new one!
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: Midway Tommy on July 13, 2021, 05:18:57 PM
The alignment tolerances are very touchy for correct bail action on those things. Take your time & be patient. It may take quite a few attempts before you get it working correctly. 
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: handi2 on July 13, 2021, 06:03:28 PM
Great Tommy,

It's been years since I have worked on one of these.

Keith
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: thorhammer on July 13, 2021, 06:16:16 PM
Anyone know where I might find a 150A handle? Need a body as well if i could find it.


John
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: Gfish on July 14, 2021, 01:45:53 PM
Whoa! Looks like something I'd do, when twisting the coil spring to get it back in. Yes, patience. I'm starting to like the new-fangled straight pressure spring/lever style bails more, though.
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: CurtHupfer on August 04, 2022, 03:05:28 PM
Tommy, I have an Orvis 100 that was my Father's. The bail is not working. wonder if Dad may have tried to repair it?
Do you know of anyone in the Daytona Beach, Fl area that repairs these old Orvis reels?

Thanks
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: Midway Tommy on August 04, 2022, 05:44:32 PM
No, I sure don't. I wouldn't even know where to begin suggesting someone. Parts are almost nonexistent for those. Sometimes a guy has to resort to making them.. Maybe one of our Florida guys knows of someone in that area.
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: LanceV on October 18, 2023, 08:23:19 PM
Hi all. Question on the Orvis 100 spinning reels. Does anyone know if these reels were other colors like black? Have seen at least two this color. Maybe they were painted ?
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: Midway Tommy on October 19, 2023, 03:42:59 AM
Quote from: LanceV on October 18, 2023, 08:23:19 PMHi all. Question on the Orvis 100 spinning reels. Does anyone know if these reels were other colors like black? Have seen at least two this color. Maybe they were painted ?

The Orvis 100 came in two colors, a matte brownish black and all black.
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: LanceV on October 19, 2023, 12:23:41 PM
Thanks Tommy. Recently picked one up in good shape but full of hard grease and dirty. Cleaned up pretty good. The paint was black and I wondered if it had been painted. Thanks for the Info.
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: LanceV on October 20, 2023, 12:11:38 PM
One more question...How do you get the drag stack out of the spool ? I dont want to damage the pressed in ring.
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: Midway Tommy on October 20, 2023, 04:55:52 PM
The top metal washer hole has one flat side. I use a punch the same size as the hole, it will then catch that flat portion of the hole. I start tapping in one spot to loosen the ring in one area and then turn/move that washer around and do the same thing in a different location. I continue doing that (moving around the circumference) until the ring pops out. Don't pry on the top lip or you'll bend it.
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: LanceV on October 20, 2023, 05:35:53 PM
Thanks Tommy I will give it a shot.
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: LanceV on October 20, 2023, 05:54:09 PM
Hey Tommy sorry to bother you again. So here are some pics of five spools. 3 have just a spring and top washer. 2 are like your picks except one had a felt washer on the very bottom. Is this the correct configuration? Not really any drag washers in the spring loaded spools.
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: Midway Tommy on October 20, 2023, 06:32:51 PM
I don't see any photos but the 100, 100A, 100S & 100B had quite a few revisions & variations over the yeasr, including the As & even a few Bs. Some of the spools were interchangeable. I'm pretty sure they had multiple drag stack revisions, too.
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: LanceV on October 20, 2023, 08:07:58 PM
Heres the photos
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: LanceV on October 20, 2023, 08:08:50 PM
More
Title: Re: Orvis 100
Post by: Midway Tommy on October 20, 2023, 10:11:41 PM
Interesting that there are so many different variations. People usually don't try to take those things apart, mainly because they don't even know they can.