if anyone is taking apart and mak 10 II SEA soon, can you pull the spool shaft, then put everything back together minus the spool and take a photo. i'd like to see the position and orientation of that mass of bellevilles. been trying to help a guy in europe and we need an SEA. thanks! alan
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Well, I found an mistake which had been made, and yes the reel has been opened once before by someone else, the owner now told me.
One of the Belleville washers had been installed single in between two c-clips in the middle of the spool shaft, strangely enough.
Do you know if the Bellevilles in the Makaira reels are to be installed () per. pair along the spool shaft? There are a total of six Bellevilles on the left side of the shaft + a regular washer, and four on the right side + a regular washer.
I put it all together as good as I can make of it from the schematic, but now the lack of freespool is even worse. I can't see from the schematic if they ARE to be installed () per. pair, or if they're to be installed differently.
I could of course try various combinations, but if you happen to know if () is correct then it would be ok to know. :)
Another thing that I can't quite figure out, is that with the current set-up, the compression spring hardly has any effect at all. So I guess it's probably a wrong set-up somewhere along the line..
Thank you for your comments so far.
-Jon-
I cannot get a pic until tomorrow, but hope this helps...
Left Side of Shaft ---E-Clip-()()()IBearing-E-Clip------------------E-Clip-()()IBearingI-ThrustBearing-Spring---DragPlate-----Right (Handle) Side of Shaft
Now, let me say that on the right side (handle side) belleville configuration, there is NOT ALWAYS a washer in-between the Belleville stack and the spool bearing, and/or a washer in-between the spool bearing and thrust bearing. I know that may be a bit ambiguous, but I have seen different configurations, some with no washers in-between the belleville stack and spool bearing, and/or no washer in-between the spool bearing and thrust bearing. Frankly, I have not seen any issues with freespool or drag regarding different configurations of the washers in question, so if your reel does not have them do not worry about it, and if it has only one try it in-between the belleville stack and spool bearing first, but either configuration will work. This info only applies to the handle side of shaft, the left side (palm side) is always in the same configuration shown.
Hope this helps, I will try and upload a pic tomorrow for more clarity.
-Scott
Thanks, guys! :)
I hope it will be possible to figure this one out. I followed the schematic, found here: http://www.okumafishing.com/product/view/reels/lever-drag-reels/makaira-sea, but I can't see if the Belleville's are () all the way on both sides of the spool shaft.
With the spring configuration (as shown in the schematic), I can't understand how the spring + plate get the proper pressure sideways to enable the spool to go into Free; the spring is brand new, but it still feels too "soft"..
This Makaira is giving me a headache. :D
The set up in the reel that I've been sent, has a configuration which is as follows:
Left side: |()()()|| and right side: ()()|, where the | = a flat washer. The first one on the left hand side is quite big, and sits against the spool shaft bearing on the left hand side of the bearing. Then there's a small washer last in line after the Belleville's. On the right hand side of the shaft, there is a small regular, flat washer which sits last in line on the right, positioned after the Belleville's there as well.
Hi Alan,
Here is a picture of a 20 and 30 spool shaft....It is in the post of how to maintain the thrust bearing in "General Procedures". The compression washers are ()().
When I originally serviced one of my 30s I reassembled the metal drag washers incorrectly. This resulted in basically the same problem of very little free spool. It was very difficult for me to figure out. I sent it off for service and it came back the same way. That was sure frustrating but I eventually figured out the problem. So, you might take a look at those positions. I believe that they're the same on all sizes, but I don't have any of the smaller reels so they might not be. I think Alan has some great pictures in his service post of the 8.
josa1
Quote from: josa1 on August 19, 2016, 09:15:55 AM
Hi Alan,
Here is a picture of a 20 and 30 spool shaft....It is in the post of how to maintain the thrust bearing in "General Procedures".
Wow, the spring on that one is massive compared to the spring in the SEa 10!
Thanks for the comments so far, guys!
I'm gonna have to take some pictures and post here, I found out last night that the SEa that I'm looking into, also has three thin washers that I can't seem to place anywhere (judging by the schematic).
Plus, being that this reel has been opened and tweaked with by someone else in the past, really gives me no idea as to where those small washers were at first..
I still can't understand how the small and soft compression spring in the 10 II SEa is enough to push the spool into free, it feels so "wrong". I've also noticed that the spool shaft binds to the pinion gear as soon as it's set into the pinon gear. So maybe it's a two-part problem?
WOAH! I think I got it right!!
Quick, someone reply me wheter it's normal that the freespool is hampered by the drag knob being set higher and higher (whilst the reel is in Free, of course)? :D The spool seems to bind when the drag knob passes a certain amount of drag setting, but apart from this everything seems promising.
That's the only issue I seem to be facing now; reel responding normal between Free and Strike
check for at least 15, even 20 pounds, at strike before losing freespool and you're good.
Quote from: alantani on August 20, 2016, 07:50:30 PM
check for at least 15, even 20 pounds, at strike before losing freespool and you're good.
Hmm I get almost exactly 15 pounds, before the spool slowly starts sliding on the drag. At 15 pounds, the spool in Free does hardly any movement when attempted spun by hand.
Too tight? This is without the three thin washers installed, as I still have no idea where they are to be put. I guess one of them might be ok to use between the right spool bearing and the trust bearing (just to try it out), but I have no idea where those two other ones go.
you should still be getting 20 pounds easily, proabably more!
Quote from: Jon_Kol on August 20, 2016, 08:47:17 PM
Quote from: alantani on August 20, 2016, 07:50:30 PM
check for at least 15, even 20 pounds, at strike before losing freespool and you're good.
Hmm I get almost exactly 15 pounds, before the spool slowly starts sliding on the drag. At 15 pounds, the spool in Free does hardly any movement when attempted spun by hand.
Too tight? This is without the three thin washers installed, as I still have no idea where they are to be put. I guess one of them might be ok to use between the right spool bearing and the trust bearing (just to try it out), but I have no idea where those two other ones go.
Worst case, you may need to replace the spool shaft.
I've run into a couple of reels with inconsistent free spool/drag you are explaining, and after checking and changing parts on the shaft, I replaced the shaft itself and all was well. I would try the washer placement first, but if that does not help I would replace the shaft.
-Scott
Quote from: sundaytrucka on August 21, 2016, 02:58:16 AM
Quote from: Jon_Kol on August 20, 2016, 08:47:17 PM
Quote from: alantani on August 20, 2016, 07:50:30 PM
check for at least 15, even 20 pounds, at strike before losing freespool and you're good.
Hmm I get almost exactly 15 pounds, before the spool slowly starts sliding on the drag. At 15 pounds, the spool in Free does hardly any movement when attempted spun by hand.
Too tight? This is without the three thin washers installed, as I still have no idea where they are to be put. I guess one of them might be ok to use between the right spool bearing and the trust bearing (just to try it out), but I have no idea where those two other ones go.
Worst case, you may need to replace the spool shaft.
I've run into a couple of reels with inconsistent free spool/drag you are explaining, and after checking and changing parts on the shaft, I replaced the shaft itself and all was well. I would try the washer placement first, but if that does not help I would replace the shaft.
-Scott
Really? What is the cause of this, do you know? And are you familiar with the three thin washers that I mentioned? I can't find them anywhere in the schematic.
Not really sure, possibly the tolerances are ever so slightly off on the shaft somewhere, and it is causing an issue, just mentioned it because it sounds like you have most everything in order on the shaft assembly; the three thin washers you speak of are not known to me.
Maybe they were used to balance or shim the spool somehow, but really difficult to diagnose without having the reel in hand to breakdown. Are there any numbers listed on the bottom of the reel foot?
-Scott
Quote from: sundaytrucka on August 23, 2016, 04:53:02 AM
Not really sure, possibly the tolerances are ever so slightly off on the shaft somewhere, and it is causing an issue, just mentioned it because it sounds like you have most everything in order on the shaft assembly; the three thin washers you speak of are not known to me.
Maybe they were used to balance or shim the spool somehow, but really difficult to diagnose without having the reel in hand to breakdown. Are there any numbers listed on the bottom of the reel foot?
-Scott
Reel foot number: 3732-061
I tried installing the three thin washers directly underneath the spring, it made no effect on the drag - I still get about 15 Lb, then the spool starts slowly revolving and when the reel is put into Free, there is no freespool. Just a tad less setting on the drag knob, and the freespool is back. So maybe the three washers need to be in between the Bellevilles in a spesific order or something like that? I have no idea.
I'm gonna post a small detail that I've discovered during the process of this reel, then we'll see if my logic is way off or if I'm onto something. :)
First of all, I'd like to state that following is just a claim which might be wrong - or that my logic is way off. :)
I've been looking into this Makaira 10II-SEa countless times now, I've had it here for a few months and I've looked at it whenever I've had time inbetween other reels sent to me.
I've always used the schematic found here: http://www.okumafishing.com/product/view/reels/lever-drag-reels/makaira-sea, and it was via the same schematic that I found a mistake that had been made by the previous person who had opened this reel (a Belleville had been installed alone inbetween two C-clips for some reason), trying to sort the problem with no freespool.
However, I still was not able to sort out the problem with the spool binding like crazy. All the Bellevilles seemed to be installed correctly ()(), and I had looked at every single part a few thousand times. :)
Then I saw someone mentioning that Alan had a nice tutorial on the shaft assembly of Bellevilles etc (from this post: http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1801.0). I figured that I'd have a look and just check again for the 48466 time. Everything looked just like the line of order in the reel infront of me.. until I suddenly noticed a detail that I was sure was different, though I had not thought a second of it previously..
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/stadjon/Alantanidisc_zpsvgzh9huj.jpg)
(I hope it's ok that I used your picture to illustrate, Alan - let me know if it's not)
Take a look that the big stainless steel key washer (key #612) and its orientation. One side is smooth, one side is not. In Alan's picture, the non-smooth side is facing inwards.
Now look at this cropped picture, taken from the schematic that I used to check the reel:
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/stadjon/Makairadragplate1_zpsd6aq2xkn.jpg)
Do you see it? The smooth side is illustrated facing inward, towards the drag washer - opposite to the one in Alan's picture.
Looking at key washer #2 (installed from the opposite side of the drag system), it's clearly illustrated having a non-smooth side - facing outward from the drag system:
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/stadjon/Makairadragplate2_zpstgiilvbp.jpg)
NOW.. when I turned key washer #1, to the orientation shown in Alan's picture, FREESPOOL WAS ENABLED. There was no longer any binding via the Pinion Gear, turning the handle while the reel was in Free did NOT make the spool spin in rythm with the handle, and when adjusting the drag knob, the spool enabled nicely between Free and Strike - depending on how much drag I adjusted via the knob.
Again - maybe I'm wrong. You guys have so much more experience, but this stands out to me and it solved 98% of the problem with this reel (which was driving me crazy). The only thing left, is understanding why the reel only gives about 15 lb of drag before losing freespool, but that part I can look at with less pressure on me now. :)
As a PS; I've looked at other Makaira schematics and they show the orientation of disc #1 in the same way as shown in Alan's picture in this post.
I'd like to hear what you guys think about this.
Note in my post above that this exactly the problem I had. When I reversed the drag plate orientation the lack of proper free spool went away.
I'm just glad you fixed the problem!
josa1
Quote from: josa1 on August 23, 2016, 10:09:27 PM
Note in my post above that this exactly the problem I had. When I reversed the drag plate orientation the lack of proper free spool went away.
I'm just glad you fixed the problem!
josa1
Oh, I misunderstood your earlier post then - I thought you were refering to the Bellevilles and that they had gotten installed in a wrong way. Ain't so easy being Norwegian and trying to remember every phrase and expressions used when reading posts about reels, I guess. :D
There's not many things involving reel repair that are as satisfying as solving this kind of problem.
By the way, I really like your "computer" dexterity, i.e, showing cropped images and being able to circle a particular part with a green square. Hijacking Alan's thread so adroitly to explain your final fix. VERY well done!
Thanks for sharing this with us. We'll all gain knowledge from your willingness to put the problem out there for us all to see.
josa1
Quote from: josa1 on August 24, 2016, 02:30:28 AM
There's not many things involving reel repair that are as satisfying as solving this kind of problem.
By the way, I really like your "computer" dexterity, i.e, showing cropped images and being able to circle a particular part with a green square. Hijacking Alan's thread so adroitly to explain your final fix. VERY well done!
Thanks for sharing this with us. We'll all gain knowledge from your willingness to put the problem out there for us all to see.
josa1
Hey, thanks! I really appreciate hearing that kind of feedback.