Hi all! I have a Shakespeare 2052 that spine well , but just sounds weird! Hard to explain the noise, it's like a whiney light grinding sound. It also does it without the rotor on so that's what makes me think it's the bearing. When I took it apart to clean I noticed it was shielded on both sides. I soaked it in lacquer thinner and then soaked in TSI 321 after letting it dry. So I don't know if it's bad or if should pull a shield off and pack it with grease instead of using oil. Any suggestions will be appreciated!
Thanks
Jeff
Pull the shields off and than clean it , this way all the dirt comes out . Than grease or oil the bearing
REPLACE IT.
If it is grindy Gritty and was shielded ( Shields keep grit out but not moisture )then it is BAAAAAAAD .
OR just fish it and hope the Vibes it sends down the line will attract the Fishies instead of Scare them off.
If it were mine I would pop the shield off of one side, clean as much old grease out as I can with a pick, soak it for a day in lacquer thinner to get anything left in there out, spin dry it good, add a little synthetic oil, spin it some more and add a nice amount of Super Lube. If it's a little stiff after that I'd add a little more synthetic oil to thin the grease. I would install it with the shielded side toward the rotor (unshielded side toward the body) and use it. Sometimes it takes a little use to create a film on all the balls & metal after a thorough cleaning. It will quiet down after some use. In all the reels that I have serviced, at least 5 or 600, I have never had to replace a bearing unless the reel was used and abused in saltwater. There is nothing wrong with replacing a bearing and it's not expensive but it's hard for me to imagine an UL needing a new bearing.
:cf
While all of the above is Certainly sound advice and can be used in some degree .A lot depends on WHAT caused this to happen and if you have a lot of time to spend on multiple remedies and Buy all the Cleaning Supplies ,Greases and oils to save 3 or 4 bux for a new bearing it will be advantageous . I wish you all the Luck in the World in you adventure and HOPE you will post back the outcome of your endeavors.
Tommy admittedly has saved probably in the neighborhood of 2000 dollars or more in salvaging his bearings and that ain't CHICKEN FEED. Me I have not been so lucky in the Thousands of Bearing procedures I have done in Everything from a pinion bearing on a vintage rear axel assembly to a Lawnmower hub and Countless Reels and the like .
I have not spent a dime on repairs on anything to anyone in over 50 years except to a Warranty Service to Tighten the Handle on my 3 year old Refrigerator just a few months ago and the Guy had to drive 80 miles From Dallas for me to show him How to do it .
He was on hold with the factory for over 30 minutes and I just got tired of waiting which I should have just fixed it myself in the first place BUT I paid good money for a WARRANTY for them to send out a guy with about 50 lbs of tech equipment on his Nice Leather Bat Man UTILITY BELT along with a Lap Top and a Manual in 5 Languages none in which he was Fluent including English plus with all the Gadgets,Meters,Diagrams, and Call to The Factory Tech Service I had to loan him one of my Torque bits (which is still missing ) (just sayin I could have misplaced it ) to tighten the aforementioned Handle bracket after I showed him How to remove the Cover .Then he spent an additional 10 minutes putting all his gear back up then 20 more minutes in my Driveway writing the Repair Form up .
Had I known in advance what a Friggen FIASCO this was gonna be I might have been able to salvage a few hundred ol Bearings I got layin around ..........I dunno :o
:cf
Yep it is EARLY .
As regulars on Alan's site, we tend to forget how much we know or can actually do mechanically. It is second nature to us. We either grew into it —- or we learned these skills over many reels. Or by paying attention to the guys on our site who share their skills, expertise, and tricks of the trade freely.
This is true with nearly anything around the house, shops, workplace, basically anything that needs fixing —- we can do, if we wish to.
We take it for granted —- and shouldn't. It is a lifetime of learning and valuable skills.
This is something to be proud of, for each of us.
On bearings —-
Yes, if a new bearing is not easily available —- and the bearing can easily be cleaned, lubed, and will work to my satisfaction for another 20 years —- the shield gets popped off and tossed in the trash —- and the bearing is rejuvenated.
If it still doesn't work as when brand new after the bearing flush and lube —- then I have wasted time that I cannot charge a client for —- and I end up replacing the bearing anyway.
So, at least for me, a bearing/bearing set —- is one of the cheapest and most useful fixes on a reel. The bearing/bearings get more use than any other part of the reel.
Have I replaced some bearings that could have been restored? You bet! Have I had any complaints or comebacks from clients? No!
And for me, the same goes for a reel whether it is for a client, myself, or just shelf fishing. If it doesn't work properly when called upon to do so —- it is just a paperweight.
For me, it is just a no-brainer —- a new bearing improves the operation of an old reel to near new every time. Cheap and easy.
No Drama Llama.
BTW, those little Shakes 2052 maroon reels are pretty solid and well made. Couple of weak spots —- but generally a 100% reel.
Best, Fred
I'm gonna pull off a shield sometime this week and give it a good soaking and flush. If it don't work I'll get another. Gonna use grease or a mix instead of just oil this time to see if it's the issue.
Thanks all!
Jeff
Quote from: Cubby1973 on March 28, 2022, 05:11:49 PMI'm gonna pull off a shield sometime this week and give it a good soaking and flush. If it don't work I'll get another. Gonna use grease or a mix instead of just oil this time to see if it's the issue.
Thanks all!
Jeff
Good idea! A new bearing is never a bad idea whether it's needed or not, but most of us don't have quick access to quality correct size bearings so knowing how to rejuvenate the original when needed ends up being a great option.
I may have inadvertently of course left out the part that My Wife showed me how to get the Cover off the Bracket a week earlier . :-[ But Still..............
:) Ok Here is my take on fixing things , if it is old more than likely it was make well, that`s why it is still around
New parts are made to be throw away, made from recycled materials ,not virgin steels or real chrome .
Take things apart ,see how it was made . Or you can be that Refrigerator repair man that will replace the whole door because it is a component part . Was there a service call fee for the Warranty Service ?
Quote from: Wompus Cat on March 28, 2022, 06:50:52 PMI may have inadvertently of course left out the part that My Wife showed me how to get the Cover off the Bracket a week earlier . :-[ But Still..............
:d
Quote from: oldmanjoe on March 29, 2022, 01:31:44 AM:) Ok Here is my take on fixing things , if it is old more than likely it was make well, that`s why it is still around
New parts are made to be throw away, made from recycled materials ,not virgin steels or real chrome .
Take things apart ,see how it was made . Or you can be that Refrigerator repair man that will replace the whole door because it is a component part . Was there a service call fee for the Warranty Service ?
Quote from: Wompus Cat on March 28, 2022, 06:50:52 PMI may have inadvertently of course left out the part that My Wife showed me how to get the Cover off the Bracket a week earlier . :-[ But Still..............
:d
I totally Agree on the older the better scenario .
There was no service fee on the Repair but the Repairman was unaware how things are put together and Damn sure didn't know how to take it apart ....lol
I still have the Refrigerator we bought 46 years ago when we first got married and it still works Flawlessly . The only reason I replaced it was I could not find a Defrost coil at the time but found one later after we paid ten times more for a New one and this was about 11 years ago and going on the third one in those 11 years.
Just bought a NEW WASHER AND DRYER and Stove .
Delivery guys would not hook the Dryer nor washer up without me buying all new dryer vents and cord and Hoses for the washer. I still had to remove the connections on the Washer and hook it up after they left cuz they did not have a pipe wrench .
Then the Dryer worked 1 time and the knob was too hard to turn for my Wife and I called the place I bought it and they said their Warranty was only good for 24 hours sooooo after 2 months and three different repair appointments that did not show up they GAVE ME MY MONEY BACK and told me to dispose of the Dryer ..............
YOU KNOW I fixed it myself don't you :d
You won't Believe the Trouble I had with the Stove I SPECIAL ORDERED FOR PROPANE USE.
Quote from: Cubby1973 on March 28, 2022, 01:33:32 AMHi all! I have a Shakespeare 2052 that spine well , but just sounds weird! Hard to explain the noise, it's like a whiney light grinding sound. It also does it without the rotor on so that's what makes me think it's the bearing. When I took it apart to clean I noticed it was shielded on both sides. I soaked it in lacquer thinner and then soaked in TSI 321 after letting it dry.
If it is only noise...not grinding or rough...then yes...the thicker lube should solve the problem. I can tell you from experience that TSI 321 is
too thin to be a "quiet" bearing lube. I have had new/otherwise good bearings sing and howl when using it...that's the trade off for being so "free". 8)
Quote(Mo65) If it is only noise...not grinding or rough...then yes...the thicker lube should solve the problem. I can tell you from experience that TSI 321 is too thin to be a "quiet" bearing lube. I have had new/otherwise good bearings sing and howl when using it...that's the trade off for being so "free".
Mo got it right on the too thin of oil Like the TSI-321 as that stuff will go past any lube or grease in there and permeate the balls and can def make your old bearings whine .Trouble is you will need something like Brake Kleen to get that stuff out and off the surface and penetration level of the bearing THEN apply your Grease or heavier lube .
Good Call Mo ! :d
Quote from: mo65 on March 29, 2022, 10:39:41 AM If it is only noise...not grinding or rough...then yes...the thicker lube should solve the problem. I can tell you from experience that TSI 321 is too thin to be a "quiet" bearing lube. I have had new/otherwise good bearings sing and howl when using it...that's the trade off for being so "free". 8)
So true! Plus, original bearings in those quality older spinners have to be in awful rough shape before they're unsalvageable.
I've said it time and time again, there's no need for spinning reels bearings to spin freely forever like casting reels because the line pays out freely when the bail is open. Spinning reel bearings just need to be smooth and functional. When you're playing a fish free spin has no relevance. All that free spin hocus-pocus in spinners is just to impress the purchaser.
whenever a bearing is sketchy, i always replace it. :-\
Just in case I need to replace is there a place that sells the exact bearing or does anyone have the exact measurements of one? I can check with some calipers when I get home in a couple of hours.
Thanks
Jeff
Sometimes there's a number on them but it usually takes measuring. New old stock Shakespeare/Pflueger parts & bearings are tough to come by.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/36/14769-300322063950-366631365.jpeg)
Here's a copy of my cheat-sheet. I add to it when I need new bearings. I measure them I.D. then O.D. then thickness. I convert them from decimal to fractions and metric, then go shopping. I just look for the bearing that comes closest in the three parameters. They can decimal, fraction, or metric. I usually purchase a few extra to save on future shipping cost because there will be more reels.
-Mike
Quote from: PacRat on March 30, 2022, 06:49:56 AM(https://alantani.com/gallery/36/14769-300322063950-366631365.jpeg)
Here's a copy of my cheat-sheet. I add to it when I need new bearings. I measure them I.D. then O.D. then thickness. I convert them from decimal to fractions and metric, then go shopping. I just look for the bearing that comes closest in the three parameters. They can decimal, fraction, or metric. I usually purchase a few extra to save on future shipping cost because there will be more reels.
-Mike
Thanks Mike!
Jeff
Well, I tried grease and it didn't help much. So I went to good ole Amazon and ordered a bearing, actually it's a 10pk. for around 10 bucks. They will be here Saturday. I will update then.
Thanks
Jeff
Hey Jeff,
The ones you ordered are going to be chromed steel. Although they may be ok for freshwater they will rust quickly in saltwater. Even the SS bearings rust because of the lesser 410 SS they use.
Keith
Quote from: handi2 on April 01, 2022, 10:43:30 AMHey Jeff,
The ones you ordered are going to be chromed steel. Although they may be ok for freshwater they will rust quickly in saltwater. Even the SS bearings rust because of the lesser 410 SS they use.
Keith
Thanks Keith, I was thinking about that. I live in Illinois so shouldn't be a problem. I'll probably be cleaning and relubing all the time anyway.
Thanks
Jeff
Right!
And you have 9 spares!
Best, Fred
Quote from: foakes on April 01, 2022, 03:46:45 PMRight!
And you have 9 spares!
Best, Fred
Well Fred, it says they are sealed, so hopefully not as easily penetrated when it comes to being caught in a typical rain storm. But for $10 I'm sure the quality isn't the best, but you never know. The brand is PGN out of Florida, we'll see if they are actually made here.
Thanks
Jeff
They will work just fine on a Shakes 2052, Jeff.
Sometimes I think we over-amp on what a reel really needs as opposed to how it will be actually used.
Good for sticking with it and getting it done, Sir!
Best, Fred
Hopefully the wife agrees with ya! But I'll probably hear, "What do you need 10 of them for?!" Lol!
Thanks
Jeff
Bearings on reels are like nails and screws to a framing carpenter.
Waste and drop as few as possible —- but never take the time to pick up the extras that you do drop.
There is time for that later —- but stay focused on the job —- and get it done.
Best, Fred
It will be interesting to hear how much difference the new bearing makes. It could very easily just be a little gear noise transferring from the main gear & pinion worm gear through the main shaft. I've seen that happen a lot on older reels.
Quote from: Midway Tommy on April 01, 2022, 06:05:35 PMIt will be interesting to hear how much difference the new bearing makes. It could very easily just be a little gear noise transferring from the main gear & pinion worm gear through the main shaft. I've seen that happen a lot on older reels.
I'm thinking it could possibly be the same thing. But for a few dollars, I figured, what the heck. It's not a deal breaker, but my OCD can get the best of me sometimes. 🤣
Mike's cheat sheet should be helpful. I replaced the bearing on a Shaky 2071 awhile back; same size as noted in his sheet for the 2052 (7/8 x 3/8 x 9/32). Old bearing had totally locked up and all the soaking in the world did zippo. The reel still worked after a fashion by spinning on the shaft even with the locked up bearing. Like night & day with the new bearing. Cheap fix.
Frank
Quote from: handi2 on April 01, 2022, 10:43:30 AMHey Jeff,
The ones you ordered are going to be chromed steel. Although they may be ok for freshwater they will rust quickly in saltwater. Even the SS bearings rust because of the lesser 410 SS they use.
Keith
hopefully they are 440 stainless steel. they are available for those prices on ebay. they seem to work fine.
Well, the bearings came today! Not top notch quality, but pretty smooth. Definitely made a difference in noise and feel. Now I only hear the A/R and not the rough rubbing noise. I don't really see anything wrong with the old one, but who knows. It fit perfectly! I was afraid I'd have to sand the pinion gear or housing to get it to fit, but went right in snuggly.
I have the link if anyone is interested.
(10 Pack) PGN - R4-2RS Sealed Ball Bearing - C3-1/4"x5/8"x0.196" - Lubricated - Chrome Steel https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GT739PV/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_F68HCPHE7BAEXJTEY7YH
Also here's a photo of my set up, a 5'6" Berkeley Cherry wood from probably the 90's.
Thanks for all the help and suggestions! It's so great to have a place to go for help and options!
Thanks
Jeff
Good for you! Maybe the races had some rough areas, or even possibly the the balls. At least she's rolling smooth & quiet now. 8)
Bearings are fascinating. I've had them cleaned and looking flawless, even feeling silky smooth when rolled by hand, then put in a reel and it sounds like the rear end gears in a school bus! Then on the opposite side of the coin, I've had bearings full of rust and crud clean up smooth and quiet as a mouse. Glad you got 'er back in the game! :fish
Quote from: mo65 on April 03, 2022, 11:30:19 AM Bearings are fascinating. I've had them cleaned and looking flawless, even feeling silky smooth when rolled by hand, then put in a reel and it sounds like the rear end gears in a school bus! Then on the opposite side of the coin, I've had bearings full of rust and crud clean up smooth and quiet as a mouse. Glad you got 'er back in the game! :fish
I can say the same , some will surprise you ...
Quote from: mo65 on April 03, 2022, 11:30:19 AM Bearings are fascinating. I've had them cleaned and looking flawless, even feeling silky smooth when rolled by hand, then put in a reel and it sounds like the rear end gears in a school bus! Then on the opposite side of the coin, I've had bearings full of rust and crud clean up smooth and quiet as a mouse. Glad you got 'er back in the game! :fish
I concur. The first time I experienced this was on a 2052. This was a DA with the plastic arbor and click gear. As you can see in the photos the inner and outer races appear to be plastic (they may have a steel liner inside the plastic, but I don't know.) The bearing felt good before I restored the reel. I cleaned the bearings and greased them but when I re-assembled the reel it was rough. I was perplexed because it felt alright before I cleaned and re-packed it. I just figured the plastic bearings were cheap (even though they felt good outside the reel) so I replaced them like Jeff did and all was well.
I had this happen a second time on a DAM Quick which had very high quality bearings but they worked and sounded better before I cleaned and re-packed them. So now, for my personal spinning reels; if the bearings feel good, I leave them alone. If the reel is going outside my local area, I just replace the bearing whether it feels bad or not.
Here's some photos of the plastic bearings. Have any of you seen these in Shakespeares before?
(https://alantani.com/gallery/36/14769-040422005007-36672651.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/36/14769-040422004958-36671328.jpeg)
-Mike
Quote from: PacRat on April 04, 2022, 01:15:55 AMI concur. The first time I experienced this was on a 2052. This was a DA with the plastic arbor and click gear. As you can see in the photos the inner and outer races appear to be plastic (they may have a steel liner inside the plastic, but I don't know.) The bearing felt good before I restored the reel. I cleaned the bearings and greased them but when I re-assembled the reel it was rough. I was perplexed because it felt alright before I cleaned and re-packed it. I just figured the plastic bearings were cheap (even though they felt good outside the reel) so I replaced them like Jeff did and all was well.
I had this happen a second time on a DAM Quick which had very high quality bearings but they worked and sounded better before I cleaned and re-packed them. So now, for my personal spinning reels; if the bearings feel good, I leave them alone. If the reel is going outside my local area, I just replace the bearing whether it feels bad or not.
Here's some photos of the plastic bearings. Have any of you seen these in Shakespeares before?
(https://alantani.com/gallery/36/14769-040422005007-36672651.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/36/14769-040422004958-36671328.jpeg)
-Mike
Yeah, that DA I repaired the plastic arbor on the main shaft a couple of years ago had a bearing with nylon races. I think Shakespeare switched to that type of bearing in their later US made spinners.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/24/17004_11_05_18_7_54_05_24433427.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/24/17004_11_05_18_7_54_07_24434388.jpeg)
Meanwhile the Handle fell off my Fridge again just now .
1 Day after warranty expired . ::)
I have a Pflueger 551 (same as the Shakes 2062) that came in with that gravelly sound. Did my very best to refurbish that bearing: pulled a shield, soaked, scrubbed, soaked, scrubbed, ... lubed with viscous oil, then tried grease. Eventually replaced it with a new one; It was a standard size. I first bought a very cheap bearing and it only helped a bit, with the support of grease. Bought a better bearing and with a viscous oil the reel was back in business.
I'll still attempt to save a bearing, but will not hesitate to replace them if cleaning doesn't work.
The noise a bad bearing can make resonating under the rotor of a spinning reel, esp an older deep cup type, can be intolerable.
Quote from: Paul Roberts on June 07, 2022, 01:03:44 PMThe noise a bad bearing can make resonating under the rotor of a spinning reel, esp an older deep cup type, can be intolerable.
A little hearing loss neutralizes that annoyance. ;D
HA! Get's easier to act like I can't hear people I don't wanna listen to anyway, as I get older.
Any good way to tell if that cleaned & lubed and good sounding(when tested before reassembly)b.bearing is gonna be bad before it's put back and the reel is buttoned-up?
Most of you, who have been around and into spinners for awhile —-
Don't need to hear a worn bearing —- you can feel it before you hear it.
Yes, you can quiet it down with grease —- but you know when it is right —- and you just feel the glassy smoothness —- instead of a slight resistance and afterwards maybe a howl.
A bearing will never get better —- it will just continue to wear.
Sometimes it will outlast the owner —- sometimes not.
If it doesn't bother you —- then it is likely good for another 10-20 years of steady fishing.
If there is even a slight roughness or bearing "feel" —- I replace the bearing & lube it properly.
Any bearing can be sourced & ordered just by the three measurements.
I generally can tell if a bearing is questionable before I take the reel apart.
I think most of us can.
Best, Fred
Quote from: Gfish on June 08, 2022, 11:20:46 PMHA! Get's easier to act like I can't hear people I don't wanna listen to anyway, as I get older.
Any good way to tell if that cleaned & lubed and good sounding(when tested before reassembly)b.bearing is gonna be bad before is put back and the reel is buttoned-up?
Use a Sharpened (tapered)ol # 2 Lead pencil and stick through the bearing. Hold the Bearing in one hand and turn it while putting pressure on the inner race with the pencil in dif directions . If you feel anything ya needs a Bearing .
Not saying it won't work ok if you want an OK Feeling Reel .
Thanks Hoss. Makes sense. Check it best as I can before disassembly, then if suspect damage, check like you said. Guess I've never had a bad one before...
Godda OC 979 and a Monofil 25 I will be sending you, unless you tell me different, Henry.
The first used Cardinal 7 I ever purchased had been well used, and in salt water to boot. The bearing seemed halfway decent but since the reel had seen a lot of salt water I decided to soak it in lacquer thinner to thoroughly clean it up. It spun fast & free so I added a fair amount of oil for lubrication. When I put the thing back together everything worked as smooth as could be but that sucker howled and sounded like a Werewolf on a full moon. :o I took the reel apart removed one shield and packed that bearing full with Super Lube and added a little synthetic oil. When I put it back together it was as smooth as a baby's butt and purred like a kitten. :d
I learned a valuable lesson on that reel. Never buy an older used reel that has any signs of salt discoloration or corrosion. I have avoided them like the plague ever since. ;)
QuoteGodda OC 979 and a Monofil 25 I will be sending you, unless you tell me different, Henry.
I bought A gob of parts in the last year or so and one bunch was suppose to include a lot of OC parts but never got them so YEP I would want em ..... ;D
That 979 is kinda neat as it is pretty Narrow .
I am working on the ShakeySpear part for you .I knows I got it just don't know where it is ....lol Thanks :d
I too, like Henry, use a pencil-sharpened piece of wood (5/16" arrow shaft) as a bearing spinner. I roll the bearing around on the bench top, listening and feeling. I can also test spin the (clean) bearing to see how long it spins. Cheap, or lower tolerance, bearings don't spin long. The record for me came from a Quick Super 270, that spun for over over 20 seconds.
I don't have the amount of experience that Fred has, so I've always simply expected most spinners to give a bit of "rotor hiss". I can tolerate a bit of "growl" too, but some come in that are... intolerable; A real "something ain't right" sound. Possibly, I'm just used to -expecting- the noise, and haven't looked/listened close enough. Or done the work to know the difference.
Some of the noise seems to be due to gear mesh tolerances, either native or from wear. The quietest, glassiest, reels I own are my worm-driven reels. The bevel and hypoid reels I have all hiss or growl; Possibly they have looser mesh tolerances?
So... I'm going to replace a few bearings on my reels and see what happens. Possibly some of that "tolerable" noise can be alleviated. First up is my BG15, that's been fished hard, and still on the original bearings. It hisses/whirs pretty good, and growls the slightest bit. I have some Boca ABEC-5's to try. Probably should have 7's, but we'll see how the 5's come out.
The question will remain, how much noise is tolerable/affordable. The Pflueger 551 (2062) I have I would not have been able to fish with until I replaced that bearing. It is now 'glassy' and pretty near silent. We're going to become pretty good friends I think.
So... I ran my ball-bearing test(s) on my BG15. It was well worth the work, clearing up some questions and assumptions I've had about bearings, gears, and other stuff related to noise in spinning reels. Since it's gotten a bit off topic and off-brand here, I've decided to post the results in the main Spinning Reel section.