My next build will be to pair with my everol 12/20. Being the fanciest reel I own (though not the highest purchase price) I wanna pair it with something decent. One thing that stuck out to me about the one I just built for a friend was the weight. I wanted to look for something lighter but still capable. I noticed there are heavy action graphite rods out there but they cost a lot more.
But is that the only concern? Are glass rods more common because they're more economical, or is there some other concern that eludes me driving a vast majority of deep sea rods to be glass based? I know a lot of SPJ rods are graphite for weight concerns, but those also tend to be intentionally built on lighter action blanks so there's no direct comparison there that I see.
Like you laid out, it boils down to feel/weight, durability & cost. Not familiar w/everols & depends a bit on how you use a "heavy" bottom setup, but if you're baiting or yo-yo-ing, a composite rod is a good compromise. A heavier all glass stick will work too if you have a rail to assist. I suspect the pricey more fragile all carbon/graphite blanks are only worth it for specialty jigging.
If casting is not critical in your type of fishing then I think a man can consider a Glass rod. There are situations where Glass fiber is even superior, to mind comes fishing on small boats in rough conditions where Graphite often gets damaged.
However Graphite makes a rod with a great feel, is much lighter, casts very well, but can not bend as much as glass and generally needs to be treated with respect. It is also more pricy.
For some years I used Glass rods when going out on a boat, but then changed to Graphite as casting is important when you sight fish for Yellowtail. I now get 10 yds further on my cast, but every once in a while break a rod as they are too long and fragile for that application.
Is a trade off but I suspect for bottom fishing Glass may be preferential.
if you wan to go the the best bang for the buck for a 90% use of the time on bottom fishing, no need to go fancy on the blank or worry on the weight of the blank, so a S-Glass or E-glass blank will work pretty good, graphite are more sensitive but more prone to break on high sticking mistakes, on the opposite Glass rods are less prone to break because they are super flexy and bit heavier, but why worry on keeping the weight light when you are going to put a 1/2 pound reel on it.
with that said, I try to use composite blanks for bottom fishing, they give you the best of both worlds, are sensitive, lighter than a 100% glass rod and many times with thinner butt diameter, normally the last 3rd or the last 1/4 of the blank has more Glass than graphite so, the tip is pretty flexy and less prone to break on high sticking.
of course composite blanks cost more than glass blank but less than a good quality graphite blank.
You're not going to need a very heavy rod for that reel. A 30lb. rod is fine.
Keith
Composite is a good compromise between the two, glass in the tip end, graphite in the butt end where it's unlikely to break. If you can go pull on some to see what you like
Fiberglass provides durability. Carbon fiber saves weight.
Not all fiberglass is the same. S-glass is between E-glass and carbon fiber in terms of weight/stiffness ratio (but closer to E-glass), and they tend to use better resins with S-glass.
They can theoretically build a blank with the same rigidity and loading perfomance with either glass or carbon, but it is often not practical (in some cases the glass blank would have too large a diameter and be too heavy), so if you compare two blanks targeted for the same usage, the fiberglass blank typically splits the difference, being a bit more bendy and a bit heavier.
As somebody who views my tackle as tools (I will not sacrifice too much durability for performance), the so-called "composite" blanks are my favorite for just about any saltwater use beyond the lightest stuff. Even my fly rods optimized for fish fighting are carbon fiber/S-glass composites. I don't do big game trolling or cow tuna live baiting, so I can't comment on that end of the scale.
The actual layout of glass vs carbon can vary. On my fly rods, the S-glass is just used to toughen the butt section for lifting. I think that the classic Calstar Grafighter bait/jig blanks use a pretty consistent ratio of both from butt to tip. Others opt for more or all glass in the tip transitioning to more/all carbon in the butt. This makes for a lighter blank with a softer tip, but since the tip is glass, still pretty durable.
Alex is right. If you are jut dropping bait, and winding in snapper plus the occasional amberjack, you can do fine with all glass. You just have to ensure that there is enough backbone in the glass to get some lift. I personally would go with a more versatile composite blank unless I was building for very high durability. OTOH, some folks just like the feel of the classic glass blanks, but these are mostly folks that grew up with the stuff.
One person's heavy bottom outfit is another person's medium bait rod. With a reel that will struggle to hit 20 lbs drag, I would say probably load it with 65 lb braid. Which puts the blank desired maybe around the 30lb class?
Quote from: handi2 on March 28, 2022, 07:12:57 PMYou're not going to need a very heavy rod for that reel. A 30lb. rod is fine.
Keith
Ooh, while I was typing. Perfect timing :)
-J
I still have yet to do any offshore fishing. So i still don't speak from any experience. Haven't done any bottom fishing, haven't fished a conventional yet, this everol included. So loosely speaking it's all a "heavy" rod to me. I'll have to take your word for it.
Admission: all this time I thought "s glass" meant solid glass. I learn something new everyday.
Also this thing is more like a pound and a half (rounding down!!!) Which is why I was thinking maybe I can cut some weight on the rod. Sounds like maybe not the best idea to go full graphite.
Quote from: steelfish on March 28, 2022, 06:27:48 PMif you wan to go the the best bang for the buck for a 90% use of the time on bottom fishing, no need to go fancy on the blank or worry on the weight of the blank, so a S-Glass or E-glass blank will work pretty good, graphite are more sensitive but more prone to break on high sticking mistakes, on the opposite Glass rods are less prone to break because they are super flexy and bit heavier, but why worry on keeping the weight light when you are going to put a 1/2 pound reel on it.
with that said, I try to use composite blanks for bottom fishing, they give you the best of both worlds, are sensitive, lighter than a 100% glass rod and many times with thinner butt diameter, normally the last 3rd or the last 1/4 of the blank has more Glass than graphite so, the tip is pretty flexy and less prone to break on high sticking.
of course composite blanks cost more than glass blank but less than a good quality graphite blank.
Panga experience!
Used to do a lot of bottom fishing in the UK, and worked through various evolutions of blank designs for deep bait fishing. Basically the entire range of this discussion, but by far the more pleasing to use were what would today be called composite blanks, where a lot of the bulk of E or S glass blanks were replaced with much slimmer designs incorporating carbon. The lighter feel, also contributed a lot to the additional action and response of the rods.
The more robust nature of glass rods, is undeniable, but found that over quite a few years, only the odd bent guide as a casualty of boat fishing in that environment. It was only when we practiced a lot of casting from the boats did the full carbon designs start to come into their own, as the performance over glass and composite was significant.
Quote from: Jeri on March 29, 2022, 06:13:59 AM.............
The more robust nature of glass rods, is undeniable, but found that over quite a few years, only the odd bent guide as a casualty of boat fishing in that environment. It was only when we practiced a lot of casting from the boats did the full carbon designs start to come into their own, as the performance over glass and composite was significant.
This is precisely where we are with Yellowtail sight fishing. I now usually take a 10 ft 6 casting rod as we spot the fish, then try to sneak up to them but often the fish are very "boat shy" and it is difficult to get close enough to get a lure over the shoal. There is always a competitive element on the boat and if one can cast 10 yds further then the other, that angler has a significant advantage.
The trouble comes when pulling a fish to the boat, you need to get the fish close to the boat to stick a gaff in to it or sometimes lift it in to the boat by rod if its small. Bear in mind most boats we use are 17 to 18 ft and our seas are often very rough making for unstable footing. If you have to lift a fish in to a boat that is not much longer then your rod you are asking to high stick with known consequences.
As far as gaffing goes, nothing beats a very long (6-7 ft) and very slim and light gaff to enable you to handle rod and gaff at the same time.
So I settled on a composite rod that I found for a very good price, I believe it's a discontinued model. I got an ATX AXVJ7040-165 blank (I believe its classed as a vertical jugging rod, 20-40# 3-6oz/165g and only weighs 6oz) for $36. It has about the right bend to it, I think. I dont think it'll go to 180° but it went to 120° in the store just fine. Got some funny looks in the store...
I have a size 22 fuji reel seat I wanted to use, but its the standard not deluxe. Aside from appearance is there any difference between standard and deluxe that would make me wanna order another instead of using what I have?
And the party begins again!
Not 100% sure but I think the deluxe has cushions under the hoods and a little better finish. For a 20-40 the standard one should be fine
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on March 29, 2022, 05:41:15 PMSo I settled on a composite rod that I found for a very good price, I believe it's a discontinued model. I got an ATX AXVJ7040-165 blank (I believe its classed as a vertical jugging rod, 20-40# 3-6oz/165g and only weighs 6oz) for $36. It has about the right bend to it, I think. I dont think it'll go to 180° but it went to 120° in the store just fine. Got some funny looks in the store...
I have a size 22 fuji reel seat I wanted to use, but its the standard not deluxe. Aside from appearance is there any difference between standard and deluxe that would make me wanna order another instead of using what I have?
And the party begins again!
The following is probably all NOT conventional wisdom, so FWIIW:
I think that the deluxe has a thin metal skin over the hoods that some folks think make them stronger, or at least less crack prone. I never saw anything in the Fuji documentation that stated anything about improved strength. The deluxe seem to be more popular when you get into larger rods, and are just a couple bucks more. I just use whatever I have handy.
I would wager that many custom builders would lean toward aluminum seats once you get to this size rod, both for a more premium look and an expectation of greater strength. I personally would still go with a robustly installed Fuji. Using a reel clamp is actually more important than which reel seat you select.
I am not a fan of foam reel seat arbors, especially on bigger rods. Paste epoxy (PC-7 or PC-11 is great stuff) mixed with that mesh fiberglass drywall tape is my fave for making custom strong "arbors". Don't go all the way to the ends of the reel seat with the arbor wraps. This will make less of a sudden hinge point where the bending gets shut off. You don't need a full length arbor, just the two ends, and maybe also in the middle to support the clamp if the gap is large and you are using a graphite seat.
I am not a fan of the masking tape dams and liquid epoxy method for attaching seats, but this is used (mostly) successfully by better builders than I.
Install the seat with threads facing the butt (down locking?). And I am a huge fan of the Fuji lock rings (you have to buy these separately). Although with a proper clamp, lock rings are not as necessary.
-J
Slight clarification, all Fuji DPS reel fittings for the last 8-10 years have had cushions fitted, and more recently (pre-Covid) all the stainless steel hoods were CC or BC finish, no more polished or painted being manufactured.
The difference between standard and deluxe, is an additional thin trim band.
On this rod project either a standard DPS with a lock ring or the slightly heavier duty DPS-H would be my first choice, both light and robust enough to do the job at hand. The question of whether to go for anodised aluminium would be tempered against the likelihood of scratches to the anodising, and the small weight penalty, especially having gone down the route of a composite blank for some weight saving, given that the rod is going to be used mostly 'in hand', rather than stuck in a rod holder.
The only other addition to your preparation might be to score/sand the internal face of the winch fitting, to secure an improve bond face for the resin adhesive. An area where reel seats fail on commercial rods, due to poor bond and over-zealous winching with the reel from deep.
Agree with everything said above, especially Dave's point about drywall tape arbor. A bit messy to do but you essentially have fiberglassed the seat to the blank. I'm zero fan of masking tape. My add: Std. seat you have is fine in this class. Aluminum will add cost with not a lot of benefit in that drag range. These really aren't "casting reels", tho you might tune it so you can pitch with it. It's troll or drop, and you're building a jig blank, so this is probably a good balance. You might consider acid wrap, because that reel is a bit wider than a jigging reel and will help the roll. I saw you said something about acid wrap on the bottom rod you just did, you can do this easily.
I think Jason is gettin deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole.
if he have fun fishing from a boat soon he will realize he needs a smaller reel for that blank to be able to cast further when there are fish on sight but are boat shy (most of them), once he buy a new smaller reel his everol reel will need another rod for trolling or livebait fishing, then a big and unstoppable grouper will take his bait and give him a adrenaline rush for the fight he will end up losing the fish, next day he will be looking for bigger and stronger reel and rod.
dont ask me how I know this. ::) ::)
I actually went ahead and closed the browser windows with saved searches where I find my impulse buys. Ive come to the conclusion that I have enough. I can cover just about all types of fishing that I'd be likely to do, so I need to stop.
I may eventually find myself with a more jigging friendly reel, but I'm gonna wait a bit. At least that's the plan.
Whatever, dude. You're gonna find a jiggy on a pole in someone's trash on your street, or at yard sale across the way for five bucks, and being you (like the rest of us), will not allow it to stay there. Then you will be building a narrow jiggy. Your Everol will become a live bait reel (needing rod, as Alex says) to trolley rig for kings off pier with. You have surf spinner as I recall, so you'll then need a 12' for an anchor rod. Then you need a plugging rod for Spanish and bait, and you're gonna want all three rods to match wraps on your pier carts so as not to look googan. I'm saying this as your friend so you can go ahead and build the rods with the theme in your head to match, and not be rewrapping errythang later. You already built the cobia rod, maybe that's it, so your Penn can go from cobia rod to anchor rod and back, and the jiggy and everol will all three match when you take them on the boat.
Alex, that about get it for the rodwrapping piece? That's what happened to me anyways.
I see you mentioned you have never fished from a boat.
With all respect I think you need to take a break from the internet and go fishing. You will learn more doing this than :fish :fish :cf :cf
Keith
Quote from: handi2 on March 30, 2022, 06:08:20 PMI see you mentioned you have never fished from a boat.
With all respect I think you need to take a break from the internet and go fishing. You will learn more doing this than :fish :fish :cf :cf
Keith
You think I would be online this much if i had a boat? Or access to a boat?
And to clarify, I've fished from boats quite a bit when i was younger, but it was inshore and we were generally sight casting, nothing really vertical.
You need to put in a little time on a few half day drift boats. That's all they do is bottom fish on the reefs. Search the web for drift boats near you to start. Later you can graduate to day charters then multi day trips. Rudy
I would only add to the point about the rabbit hole, as when Jason started on this endeavour, we did all warn him of the rabbit hole effect, and that it has absolutely no escape ladder........ :al
There is no theoretical position where any man has enough rods and reels, as a similar position as no woman can have too many shoes.
Quote from: thorhammer on March 30, 2022, 05:42:04 PMWhatever, dude. You're gonna find...
Alex, that about get it for the rodwrapping piece? That's what happened to me anyways.
somehow I missed this. And you're most certainly right, but I decided its time to actively stop searching online for deals. I have enough. If something pops up that I can't pass up, well i won't pass it up. But the wife hasn't seen the everol or the bill yet....
And with regard to matching sets, I'd be lying if i said i wasn't considering rewrapping some of my earlier pieces, bring them up to my current skill level. Though i may do better to wait a few months and bring them up to my future skill level 8)
Quote from: Jeri on March 31, 2022, 08:03:04 AMI would only add to the point about the rabbit hole, as when Jason started on this endeavour, we did all warn him of the rabbit hole effect, and that it has absolutely no escape ladder........ :al
There is no theoretical position where any man has enough rods and reels, as a similar position as no woman can have too many shoes.
Oh I was warned about this rabbit hole. As far as places to get stuck, at least its fun. Rod n reel work scratches the same itch for me as modding cars, but at a much lower cost, and with far lower odds of dying in a fireball at 160mph if something goes wrong. And I wish my wife was that type. This would be much easier if I could point to her closet every time she pointed to my rod rack.
And Rudy is that the normal progression? I guess I gotta start somewhere. I've got a vehicle that can tow stuff now. A boat is in my future, but I'm not sure how far. It won't be a deep sea vessel though so I still need to look at charters.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on March 31, 2022, 01:33:40 PM... This would be much easier if I could point to her closet every time she pointed to my rod rack.
well, amigo, that will never happen.
my fishing gear addiction stopped been a problem when few years ago I bought to my wife a nice laptop and some other things for her with the spare money from the custom rods/repairs.
she actually had a carpenter made me a nice cabinet for my fishing reels with a hidden sliding door for my rods and plenty of room for my few rod components and reel repair tools , that was 4 years ago, now the rod rack on the cabinet is full and my tools/parts for fit on the rest of the drawers, my RC cars had to go to a storage box to make more room for reel, etc,
And Rudy is that the normal progression? I guess I gotta start somewhere. I've got a vehicle that can tow stuff now. A boat is in my future, but I'm not sure how far. It won't be a deep sea vessel though so I still need to look at charters.
[/quote] Jason you don't have to follow any order. Just make some choices. If you are interested in a 1/2 or full day charter go down to the piers and check with the captains if they need any fill ins for a full charter, cabin cruiser, 1/2 or full day. They usually take 6 people so you pay 1/6 of the charter. They usually troll but if everybody wants to bottom fish they will do that if they have decent locations of good reef's to fish. Ask around at the docks about the boats & captains reputations. Do they have a no fish, no pay deal? Usually they want you to use their gear but if you talk to the captain and let him know that you want to try a rod you built & a reel you rebuilt they will usually go along with you. Half day charters "start" at about $600/ 1/2 day to $1200/ full day.
Fiberglass (plastic) rods are very dangerous. When they break they explode sending pieces of glass everywhere.
Keith