this is my 2nd time servicing a penn intnl 50 reel, first was a 50-II and everything was smooth, just a cleaning and lubing service.
but I have this 50s reel that have the problems with the handle, its stuck and dont move at all, also the drag preset screw (knob) dont move forward or backwards, the drag lever moves freely all the way for the max to free-spool.
according to my previous time and to Alan posts, I just have to push the plunger pin to free the gear assembly, but I cannot push it down like it should (pretty sure its the culprit), so, my question is.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4143/35658024746_5186e3ecb9_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WjYGs7)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4208/35697230085_92e07c3680_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WorCQe)
does this had happened to any of you guys before?
should I just give that plunger a good hit to release the gear assembly?
should I use a plier to force the drag set screw to move backwards?
whats the worst damage I could do if I force the drag preset knob and same case with the plunger?
since this is an expensive old reel I dont want to break anything on my fault, I actually give this reel back to the owner but he didnt wanted it back, if you cannot fix it anyone else on the town would do, he said, so got the reel back to try one more time but not just forcing things up
John (Tightlines 666) is your guy on this one.
To fix the preset knob, you need to pull off that silver plate (part# 124) and rebuild/clean underneath. Underneath that plate is prone to saltwater intrusion.
If the handle isn't moving it's probably due to corrosion on the gear stud. You'll need to remove the gear stud and gear. Clean and regrease.
If I were you, I'd do a complete overhaul on the reel. Open the spool and check the drag. Grease with Cal's. Separate the drag cam. Check the pins on the cam. Liberally regrease it. Check to make sure the dogs are moving. I'd pull them out and put grease/oil underneath.
Quote from: FatTuna on November 28, 2016, 09:12:34 PM
To fix the preset knob, you need to pull off that silver plate (part# 124) and rebuild/clean underneath. Underneath that plate is prone to saltwater intrusion.
well, you are correct, on the 50-II reel I service months ago, I did all that and its my intention to do it on this reel, but I cannot move the preset knob, to take it out and clean the rest of the parts under it, its stuck, so, should I just get a locking pliers and force it?
I was going to do it, But I dont know if I going to damage the CAM under it
Quote from: FatTuna on November 28, 2016, 09:12:34 PM
If the handle isn't moving it's probably due to corrosion on the gear stud. You'll need to remove the gear stud and gear. Clean and regrease.
according to my friend, the reel was working and he was fishing with it when became harder to turn the handle to the point where it doesnt moved at all.
any recomendation on how to remove the gear stud under this situation?
thanks in advance
I'd start by removing the handle. Then the side plate. Remove all the screws on that chrome plate. Then I'd try and gently pry it off with a flat head screw driver. Once you manage to get the plate off there should be a slotted washer (part #59) that holds the preset knob on. Once everything is separated you'll be able to clean it well. The drag cam could also be part of the issue. You will need to access that from inside the plate.
In regards to the gears, I'd first inspect the inside. Which model reel is it? 50TW? On a 50TW, I believe you need to remove the three screws that hold a plate on the main gear. Then you remove the gear stud. If the stud is stuck you might have to bang it out. I use a hammer and a wooden dowel. The dowel is so you don't deform the end up the stud. Otherwise the handle might not fit back on.
Its a 50S 2 speed that has the plunger inside the gear sleeve with 2 pins that hold in. They must be corroded badly. Keep oiling it and trying. It will break free.
The problem rises if the inner race is worn beyond use from corrosion. It will need replacing. Lets hope not.
Steelfish for the preset knob you should just be able to remove the 3 screws that hold the plate which the preset knob is attached to. if you cant turn the preset knob or handle then the cam assembly is badly corroded/stuck. if you remove the three screws i mentioned, then the plate and preset knob should pop right off. If its hard then there can be corrosion between the plate and the frame.
thanks guys, I will use your ideas on the reel and post my findings
Hi
Thought I would throw my 2 cents in.....
If the handle won't rotate at all I expect the three tiny screws that hold the main gear to the drive shaft have backed out. The main gear is binding on the inside of the reel.
I would remove the handle, remove the plate that the drag preset knob is attached to, remove the right side plate screws and look at the gear from the inside. I believe the gear is binding on the pre set apparatus.
I think you'll find the small screws are the problem. Of course this is just my guess.
Good luck,,,,It's not that hard to solve this problem. Just hang in there.
josa1
By the way DON'T force the pre set knob or handle shaft to turn. This will only damage the reel!
josa1
Thanks Josa, those 2 cents sounds like a nice plan
Hi Steelfish,
It's important that you take pictures and post your findings. At some point in time I'm sure it will help us all out.
Thanks,
josa
Quote from: josa1 on November 29, 2016, 02:51:56 AM
By the way DON'T force the pre set knob or handle shaft to turn. This will only damage the reel!
josa1
X2
Sounds like you are on the right track here.
I would pull the handle, then the bridge cover/cam housing (3 screws) right side plate, then the headplate, then the 2 gear retainers, and the drive coupling. See if you can remove the plunger, and the pins next before push the gear stug through the side plate. Once you get this stuff apart, then you can remove the cam assembly and start cleaning, polishing/deburring the parts including the cam pocket, and gear stud/drive shaft retainer. Use some liquid penetrant, heat, and a wooden dowl and/or rubber mallet to apply some persuasion, as needed during dissasembly.
With a little persistance, you should be able to get it done. Keep us posted on your progress.
P.S. Sorry I am a bit late to the party on this one, had a busy day.
John
Thanks John, you're not late, I have some pending reels before the Intl 50s reel, Im going ti check it out in 2-3 days more
Hi Steelfish,
Just wondering if you had a chance to look at this reel?
josa1
I havent amigo Josa,
I've been pretty busy, then got a really bad flu for many days, then the same owner of the reel gave me a rod to fix and told me to fix the rod first.
I will keep you all informed on my findings once I took that reel again on the fixing table
Bump! Any luck with the stud / plunger removal?
I have a similar issue with my 50 SW...gear stud doesn't want to drop once I apply pressure to the plunger. I've tried tapping it with a rubber mallet while depressing the plunger and no go. I'm guessing it is quite worn...
Quote from: coastal_dan on January 30, 2017, 05:54:12 PM
Bump! Any luck with the stud / plunger removal?
I have a similar issue with my 50 SW...gear stud doesn't want to drop once I apply pressure to the plunger. I've tried tapping it with a rubber mallet while depressing the plunger and no go. I'm guessing it is quite worn...
This may be due to your pins getting stuck. You have to get the pins to seat inside of the gear stud to remove it. Then you need to remove them before you can remove the stud. If you are able to get the stud out first, you may be able to use a pic to push the pins through the stud. There is more then 1 way to skin the cat here. A rubber mallet, and vise may help.
John
Not to hijack but this seems like a good place to add in my findings as well...
I left the plunger depressed with a hand vise and screw overnight with WD-40 soaked in there...after dealing with this for a few nights I was finally just going to drill out the stud and buy another. So, I released the vise and flipped it over to drill and what do you know! It fell right out...as you can see the pins had some serious dirt/crud/gunk build up and didn't want to move at all. So, lots of cleaning later and good to go! I am going to replace the pins and spring to be on the safe side.
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg170/funferdriver/IMG_8499_zpss5qqlbgh.jpg) (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/funferdriver/media/IMG_8499_zpss5qqlbgh.jpg.html)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg170/funferdriver/IMG_8498_zpsvnjqcoln.jpg) (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/funferdriver/media/IMG_8498_zpsvnjqcoln.jpg.html)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg170/funferdriver/IMG_8500_zpsql539o7p.jpg) (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/funferdriver/media/IMG_8500_zpsql539o7p.jpg.html)
;D Moving On!
Nice work Dan!
I know I have been in the same pickle before. These pins don't seem to be as badly mared as I was expecting. Both the sleeve, and pins are extremely hard. These and the cam, cam pins, and spool shaft/pinion gears are the 7 hardest parts in the Internationals, followed by the main gears. The pins ocassionally need replacing, most other parts do not. The gears seem to have plenty of meat left on them and should crank smoothly after a good cleanup.
A few more tips for you...
When reassembling use a light coating of marine grease followed by some corrosion X.. same goes for the clicker pawl and spring. Don't be afraid to use some blue loctite on the gear retainer screws, and the clicker pawl nut. Might as well order a clicker screw cover while you are ordering parts too. Get yourself one of Alan's bearing packers and pack the non spool bearings with grease. Put the older bearing in the left spool position as these wear less quickly then the other 3. Depending on how much you have into the reel, you may want to consider a handle upgrade as well. The oversized rubber handles are nice.
Can't wait to see the finished product on your first International.
Now tell Daron they are easier to work on then you think ;)
John
Quote from: coastal_dan on February 01, 2017, 03:28:11 AM
Not to hijack but this seems like a good place to add in my findings as well...
No problem Dan
I have been pretty busy with normal work, I'm a CPA and the 1st three months are like hell too many reports for the IRS
Anyway, havent touch that reel yet and the owner told me that he really don't need it so, fix it when time allows
Good to see your reel is good to go
Make sure the pins on the plunge are facing the right direction. The pointy end faces in board, otherwise the plunger won't pop out properly.
Quote from: reel man on February 01, 2017, 07:30:53 AM
Make sure the pins on the plunge are facing the right direction. The pointy end faces in board, otherwise the plunger won't pop out properly.
Reelman - I believe it is opposite this...rounded end of the pin should be facing out so that it slides and engages freely into the sleeve. With straight edges out it would not allow for a 'fluid' engagement into the notches of the sleeve.
I found this thread that discusses this problem...
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=2489.0
Let me know if I misunderstood you.
Thanks.
Quote from: coastal_dan on February 02, 2017, 05:52:07 PM
Quote from: reel man on February 01, 2017, 07:30:53 AM
Make sure the pins on the plunge are facing the right direction. The pointy end faces in board, otherwise the plunger won't pop out properly.
Reelman - I believe it is opposite this...rounded end of the pin should be facing out so that it slides and engages freely into the sleeve. With straight edges out it would not allow for a 'fluid' engagement into the notches of the sleeve.
I found this thread that discusses this problem...
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=2489.0
Let me know if I misunderstood you.
Thanks.
Correct.
The rounded portion of the pins face outwards on the 2 speed mech. and on the cam assembly.
John
Quote from: josa1 on November 29, 2016, 04:37:43 AM
Hi Steelfish,
It's important that you take pictures and post your findings. At some point in time I'm sure it will help us all out.
Thanks,
josa
totally agree that all threads asking for help should have an update with the ending story
well after some months I made some time between rebuilding fishing rods and take the Internationall 50s II for a second round.
read 3 times what everybody recommended me and applied all those tips on the reel, it was a battle to dead against it, started at 9pm (my normal hour to start working on reels) and finished at 2am, it took so long cuz from time to time the reel gave it a little bit but I didnt wanted to leave it for the next day cuz between family, rods and kids-homework I didnt knew when "the next day" would have been, anyway, I continued to dismateling all parts I could from exterior and interior until just have the gear assembly stuck which was always the main problem, with the help of the rubber hammer and after many hits, oil and patience I could take the gear assembly "shaft" out from the sleeve.
same deal than with Dan's reel, it was full of dirt/crud/gunk build up and I cleaned the interior of the sleeve and put againg the gear shaft inside but it was really a tight fit with lot of force to do it, so I made a "tube" with sand paper of 600grit and sanded the interior of the sleeve, later used a 1200grit to polishing a bit, did the same with the shaft of the gear assembly, sanding it with 600 and after with a 1200 grit and lots of water it ended up almost like mirror, put it inside the sleeve agains and night and day, now it spins freely inside the sleeve, added a drop of 321 oil and felt like a champ, good work Alex, watch marked 2am so, I put all the bits inside of small plastic bags separately for section, put reel frame and bits on big bag and went to sleep.
tomorrow or on the weeken I will clean the whole reel and lube it, it should work as new.
but.. please check the pic where Im showing a mark from the pins, really sure is where it got stuck and leaved those marks when using the rubber hammer at the end I took it out but no without leaving from marks inside the sleeve.
Do you think this would affect the reel with shifting from low to high?
checked on scotts and that part is $50 bucks, but dont know if its recommended to buy it and throw the stock one.
If it was me, I would replace the bridge since the are available and relatively inexpensive. You may get a bump when reeling and it is posdoble that it hangs up a bit if you don't pish the button all the way until it completes the gear shift. You could dremel it a bit and test.
John
Quote from: Tightlines666 on May 25, 2017, 07:20:49 PM
If it was me, I would replace the bridge since the are available and relatively inexpensive. You may get a bump when reeling and it is posdoble that it hangs up a bit if you don't pish the button all the way until it completes the gear shift. You could dremel it a bit and test.
John
if it was my reel I would get the bridge but belongs to a panguero guide that is always on a budget so, I think I will try the dremeling first, I think what I need to do is to smooth the bump, right? smooth it on the sides of the bump
are you agree or what do you think I should do to that nick inside the bridge?
Yes smooth the edges, and also the top portions. When inward pressure is applied to the handle while cranking in high speed, you may feel a noticable bump every 180 deg. If there is space, shimming on top of the gear sleeve may help to tighten it up.. oh wait that would only work for damage to the low gear grove, and shimming the inside would make it worse. I would assemble and test before modifying it. It may produce unacceptable performance. I yave had to replace a few of these due to marring. In the larger reels it is just a bushing.
You may not be aware, that the smaller reel bridge, which is cheaper, fits the larger reel (shh.. don't tell Maurine). I think the 30 fits the 50 (though this may only be in the older reel styles). I always had tye old bridge in hand, and compared it to available parts in hand before purchasing locally. MysticParts indicates they are not compatible though. So, I might be mistaken on which 2 smaller International models this applies to.
I can't remember now for sure?
I think this one might eork on your reel through...
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/3-30S.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/3-30S.aspx)
John
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Here is a photo I just took of the 50 (single speed), and 30S (2-speed) bridge assemblies. The diameter and hole patrerns are identical, but the prices certainly are not! I am 95% sure the 30S bridge works on the 2-speed 50 reels at 1/3 the cost.
John
thanks JOhn for this info
is it the camera angle or its the 30s bridge thicker than the 50s?
pretty sure they should at least be the same but 30s looks thicker than 50s
Quote from: steelfish on June 26, 2017, 10:50:19 PM
thanks JOhn for this info
is it the camera angle or its the 30s bridge thicker than the 50s?
pretty sure they should at least be the same but 30s looks thicker than 50s
The 30s (2-speed) bridge pictured above is thicker then the 50 (1-speed) bridge pictured above. The shop didn't have any 2-speed 50-sized bridges in stock.. probably because the stopped ordering them after we discovered the 30S is the same bridge priced at 60%+ less. I just wanted to show that the diameter and hole patterns are identical. I couldn't condirm 100%, because neither myself nor the shop have the 50 bridge.
Maybe Mauren could check their parts from stock, if she has time?
John
ok, Im still Stuck here
I was able to the get the handle and shaft out from the bridge and now they are working, but what until I was installing everything again I did noticed that I never took care of the stuck accentric screw part 143-50, and its stuck of course on the part 141-50 "CAM follower", I did tried yesterday to unscrew it with lots of oil and liquid wrench plus heat from a heat gun, which put the oil almost boiling that it started to drop from the screw bellow, I though that was the ticket but I just couldnt move at all the screw, tried right turn and left turn but no avail
so, should I heat it more or left the parts swiming in oil for days?
is it reversed threaded or normal threaded?
I checked my parts stock and funny enough, I don't have any cam followers for the 50 left in stock. I do have pins, the screw, and the cam, along with all of the sub assembly parts for 20, 30, 80, and 130 class reels. It is standard/lefty-loosy threads. You may be able to drill it out in a vice grip and buy a screw, or I can mail you one. Good luck!
Just lmk if I can help here.
John
Well, thanks.
Igual already bought The CAM follower and The screw, found them on fleabay at good price, I will get them in a week, hopefully now it Will work and be able todo test it.
I Still havent gotten The 50s bridge until check How it feels with The small nick in The bridge bushing
as an update to this thread the reel is already finished with new parts on it and ready for some heavy action with 150lb braid on it and topshots as big as needed, not many heavy action in the local waters so, it might not see much action after all ;D ;D, but it will be my dedicated reel for big groupers and sharks.
even got a new 50s bidge so, its ready to fish with confidence, still missing rod clamp kit (screws, clamp and nuts) but its available on scotts, I will get it on my next order.
on of the pictures there is a 30t I serviced from a friend and my 50s both with 150lb braid (big test line for abrasion purposes) when we went shark fishing on a boat, no luck.
Glad to see you got it sorted. Doing a couple of reels like they should have given you the knowledge, experience, and confidence to crack any International out there. Don't be afraid of those lever drags.
Maybe your friends will start sending you there reels now?
John
Quote from: Tightlines666 on August 23, 2017, 06:48:52 PM
Maybe your friends will start sending you there reels now?
John
John, this is the is the 5th international reel I recieve in my sidejob (night switch, I like to call it), but the first ones where easy to find the problem and to open them up, this one was pretty stuck by corrosion in many parts and I didt wanted to break something trying to force it, but thanks to you and other guys I finally fix it.
there is no much big game off-shore fishing in this latitudes on the north sea of cortez, big game is good on the pacific side of Baja north or even better on Baja South (cabos and La Paz, Bocana, etc), so, not many guys here have this big reels.
they are pretty straigh and have less internal parts than many 2 speed reels I have seen.
Quote from: steelfish on August 23, 2017, 07:05:42 PM
Quote from: Tightlines666 on August 23, 2017, 06:48:52 PM
Maybe your friends will start sending you there reels now?
John
they are pretty straigh and have less internal parts than many 2 speed reels I have seen.
I like the rigged/overbuilt simplicity of these reels, and consider them true workhorses of the big game lever drag family. They may be a bit heavy, and rough with looser overall tolerances, and a bit probe to water/salt intrusion, but they work. If serviced semireguarily, they can last decades. Parts support is good overall as well.
John