This project started out as a good deed for a member. I had converted a P332 to a 322 some time ago and that about cracked Gregg Chow and I. It took 6 spools to get one to work as well as a couple of frames. This reel had the original 4 stack drag system that I converted to a 6 stack with Bryans kit and it became the smoothest of all of my Newells.
A member has been searching high and low for a metal 322 spool with no luck. I spotted a New Looking 322 on ebay and told him to just buy it and he would have the spool. He hesitated and then I got an idea for a win win. I bought the 322 and decided that I would convert my P332 back to its original frame and the silver Tib spool would be available for our member in need. He sends a payment and I ship the spool.
Today the 322 arrived was in near perfect condition and had a new P series handle which was a plus and the internals were very clean as the outside and in the first photo you will see the internals.
(http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a526/dwebb49/IMG_0802_zps8wgfpyfi.jpg) (http://s1282.photobucket.com/user/dwebb49/media/IMG_0802_zps8wgfpyfi.jpg.html)
Notice in the photo that the left side plate has smooth head screws. For those that don't know this is what you look for to see if the reel has the long cross bolts. Normally I would run from this because they can be very rusty and break. I was planning to use the Tiburon frame that I already had so no worry. Luckily though they were like new like the rest of the reel.
(http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a526/dwebb49/IMG_0803_zpsongrujl7.jpg) (http://s1282.photobucket.com/user/dwebb49/media/IMG_0803_zpsongrujl7.jpg.html)
This is the Tiburon frame in my 332 that will be removed and installed on the 322.
This is something that I have not mentioned before. Long ago I realized that with Bryan's 5 stack kit that there was room for a full size washer on top of the stack. Later I was installing a set and noticed something that I think is very important. The grooves cut in the gear for the eared washer are not cut deep enough so the first CF and thin washer don't get full force in my opinion. So, I decided to put the thin CF in place and start with a full size original keyed washer and will follow up with another photo.
(http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a526/dwebb49/IMG_0804_zpsshpmopaw.jpg) (http://s1282.photobucket.com/user/dwebb49/media/IMG_0804_zpsshpmopaw.jpg.html)
(http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a526/dwebb49/IMG_0805_zpspurpvi1d.jpg) (http://s1282.photobucket.com/user/dwebb49/media/IMG_0805_zpspurpvi1d.jpg.html)
Now everything is ready for assembly. You will see the .020" delrin on the sleeve then the gear will go in and stack as I stated before but it will be topped with a thin keyed washer, another .020 delrin and Belleville from Bryan's kit. It all fit perfectly in the stack and in the reel. You can see in the photo that I am using a P star so that I can use some wavy springs that I got from McMaster between it and the 3-18 washer for a little more cushion as I am ramping up the drag. I also had a new red plastic lock washer for the handle nut to keep it secure. Since the P handle is a little thinner than the plastic I will use a 3-16 on both sides which keeps the nut from hitting the screw that holds the sleeve in place.
(http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a526/dwebb49/IMG_0806_zpsx7nhnpx6.jpg) (http://s1282.photobucket.com/user/dwebb49/media/IMG_0806_zpsx7nhnpx6.jpg.html)
Now we have topic that many have battled and this is the easy way. When installing the SS rings to the frame with the short fillister head screws it is a good practice to also install the body screws. On almost every frame job I have found at least one body screw hole in the SS ring differing from the Tib frame. Most discover this after trying to put the side plate on and ruin a couple screws and have a blood pressure spike. Do the test and if they do not fit then remove the ring and open up the two body screw holes a couple thousandths with a mini round file. Reinstall and no worries. Make sure you lube the mating surfaces and all screw threads. You may want to get it apart some day.
(http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a526/dwebb49/IMG_0807_zps1h7smu77.jpg) (http://s1282.photobucket.com/user/dwebb49/media/IMG_0807_zps1h7smu77.jpg.html)
The drive system is ready to be installed.
(http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a526/dwebb49/IMG_0808_zps1ufa1k3s.jpg) (http://s1282.photobucket.com/user/dwebb49/media/IMG_0808_zps1ufa1k3s.jpg.html)
Project complete:
(http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a526/dwebb49/IMG_0809_zpsdlc2a0eu.jpg) (http://s1282.photobucket.com/user/dwebb49/media/IMG_0809_zpsdlc2a0eu.jpg.html)
(http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a526/dwebb49/IMG_0810_zpststkzo73.jpg) (http://s1282.photobucket.com/user/dwebb49/media/IMG_0810_zpststkzo73.jpg.html)
(http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a526/dwebb49/IMG_0811_zpsnxrviuue.jpg) (http://s1282.photobucket.com/user/dwebb49/media/IMG_0811_zpsnxrviuue.jpg.html)
I forgot to mention that I also put in a set of Boca Ceramics and the spool is very fast and smooth. The drag is also smooth as silk and need to get some line on it and back on the Calstar 700L ready for some Cobia fishing.
Quote from: Newell Nut on March 24, 2015, 12:33:19 AM
This project started out as a good deed for a member.
Nice job Newell Nut, good tip about the body / frame screws ... said member shall remain anonymous ;D
Enjoy the spool. ;)
I was in a bit a rush with the explanation and there is a step missing. Since the reel had the long cross bolts the 4 short ones actually screwed into tapped holes on one of the SS rings. These holes have to be drilled out and I used a 9/64 bit to do this and it is done so that you run regular screws into the frame.
Gregg does not like to sell frames to folks that have these long screws because it is a small problem but if you have some tools and a little mechanical skill then you are okay.
Very nice job. I've done that on a "S" series Newell a while ago. Some day I will look for it. It's in a box with its cousins.
Mike
Your not the Newell Nut for nothing. ;)
Good Job on that Reel Dwight. ;D
Great work Dwight! I need to finally get my hands on a nice Newell. I have been looking at the 322/ converted 332.
Neat build, thanks for that. You are the Newell man, for sure!
Nice work Dwight!
John
If you get back next December you can use it on the Pastime if you like or anything else in my collection so pack like. I have a couple special Penns too. ;)
Quote from: Newell Nut on March 24, 2015, 10:19:45 PM
John
If you get back next December you can use it on the Pastime if you like or anything else in my collection so pack like. I have a couple special Penns too. ;)
I will look forward to it!
Provided I can talk my dad into another day on one of them damn charter boats.
Lookin' good NN! The blue frames are my favorites. :o
I use that same technique for properly lining up the inner and outer rings...even with earlier Newell models. Sometimes the inner/outer rings just don't align exactly unless you do this technique...but this is especially true when aligning the inner ring with the Tib frame since it's made so precisely.
Newell Nut,
I have not had any alignment issues on the 4 Tiburon framed Newell's I have put together. Maybe because I have never used the short screws that hold the inner ring to the frame. I just use the long screws that pass thru both the inner and outer rings and into the Tiburon frame. I have a 322, 338 to 332, 533 to narrow width, and a 540 to 550 all with Tiburon frames. The 322 and 332 have Newell aluminum spools. The other two have Tiburon spools. All have Bryan's upgraded brakes. Am I dumb, or lucky?
Speedwagon2 ???
If you use the short fillister heads to fasten the inner SS ring to the frame you will more than likely find the problem that I discussed. Skipping those screws helps dodge the problem. This is mainly in the 200 and 300 series. In the 400 and 500 you will have more body screws and no little fillister heads to lock the inner ring in a fixed position.
Newell Nut,
Do you think there is any difference in frame strength if the short screws are left out?
Speedwagon2
SW: I won't speak for NN but I don't believe he's skipping the installation of the inner ring screws...but I've been wrong before. :)
I've changed out Tib frames in five of my original P200/P300 models and a NL 533. The P's as well as the NL series use the short screws (not the thru screws) for the inside rings. As in NN's picture above, you see all of the short screws attached to the inner ring and the Tib frame. The 2 longer screws in the picture are used only to align the holes. By screwing in the long screws to the inner frame first(use just a few turns), you can ensure that the 4 small screws will align properly. You then use the Tib screws for the outside ring.
By doing the above procedure, your holes will always align the first time...whether you're putting together a Newell multi-piece frame or a Tib frame. Personally, I've never had any issues using the above process.
X2 on your comments and yes I believe the reel is weaker when you leave the inner ring screws out. They were designed in there for a reason.
I just installed a green frame on my wife's S332 to match her reel seat and diamond wraps. As I installed I just wondered anybody would expect the Tiburon frame to make a reel stronger when you leave 8 screws out of the inner ring. I just don't understand that logic unless someone just got a Tiburon frame because it looks cool.
I had mentioned that I use wavy washers between the star and the 3-18 and this is it.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#9714k32/=win7cs
Newell Nut,
My 322 and 332 both have Tiburon frames with out the inside screws thru the inner ring installed. I guess I am running durability a test on these two reels. The 322 handled a couple of schoolie YTFs over 40 lbs last season. This years tear down, clean lube, etc did not show any obvious signs of the reel trying to twist or change alignment. After catching one of those fish, I tested the drag(cold) to see what it was at after adjusting it during the fight. It was at 24 lbs. Both reels have Bryan's 5+1 drags, and have tested around 30 lbs of drag cranked down hard. The 332 has not fished yet. You have a lot more time fishing and repairing Newell's then me, but looking at the design I believe the short inside screws are lot more important when the original posts and base are used because of the multiple frame pieces that have to be kept square to the side plates. The one piece Tib frame is much stiffer then the original posts and base and has a large increase in surface area against the rings and side plates. If there is a weak point, it will be the number and strength of the screws that pass thru the side plates and hold everything in alignment. If I am wrong, there will be a full forensic report and pictures. I may install the inside screws next time I have the reels apart; probably next spring. The best thing would be that I catch some bigger tuna this season and really test the reels!! I blew up a stock long beach a few years ago by over fishing the poor thing. It twisted and pushed the spool thru the left side. The experiment will continue.
Thanks for your imput. Speedwagon2
What was your reason for leaving the inner ring screws out?
Tunacious,
1. The huge increase in surface, or contact area between the Tiburon frame and side plates vs the lack of contact area between the original base, frames sections, and the side plates.
2. Carl Newell's original kits for the Penn reels had bars and base plates that were a large increase in surface area over the posts that Penn used at the time. The surface area of the frames against the side plate combined with the screws made the Penn reels with Newell kits much more resistant to twisting which is what happens the drag is loaded up and Mr Big Fish is headed south.
3. Tiburon did not send any short screws for the inner SS rings with either of the 300 series frames I bought.
4. I don't have a lot of experience rebuilding/modifying fishing reels. I do have a lot of general engineering experience including modifying motorcycle frames for racing, structural inspection in the construction industry and general tinkering with mechanical devices all my life.
5. Based on what I have learned from NN and other people on this site regarding Newell reels, I believe they are the most durable and corrosion resistant reels made. Combined with a Tiburon frame I believe they are strongest reasonably light weight reel made. I have several aluminum lever drags. I don't use them that much. A forged aluminum lever drag reel maybe stronger, but with a huge weight and cost penalty. Before answering your post, I asked the same question to Tiburon to see what they think. I cut and pasted the e-mail below. As I stated in my last post, this is an on going experiment. If I blow up one of my 300 series Newell reels, I will change my mind real fast. I did not throw those short screws out.
Dave Babcock(AKA Speedwagon2)
Hi Dave, I believe you are correct.
Bob
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Newell 200 and 300 series reels with Tiburon frames
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 19:02:38 +0000
From: Babcock David <dbabcock@san.org>
To: info@tiburonengineering.com <info@tiburonengineering.com>
Sir,
The original 200 and 300 series newell reels used short screws that secured the inner SS ring to the frame and base sections. They used longer screws that went thru the side plates and both the inner and outer SS rings into the frame and base pieces. When installing a Tiburon frame in these reels, are the short inner screws needed? It seems to me that the longer screws that go thru the side plates and both rings are sufficient.
Thanks, Dave Babcock
I have one question. Why do think Tiburon went to the trouble of drilling and tapping the holes for the short fillister head screws if they were not needed?
I have some Accurate frames for the Jigmaster that are loaded with holes, drilled and tapped every 1/4".
Speedwagon2:
Interesting response from Tiburon. I know that Tib doesn't include the small inner screws with their kits but it never occurred to me to not use the original Newell inner screws, especially when Tib had cut the holes in their frames for the inner screws. You don't lose anything for using two more screws on the inner ring. If anything, it just becomes more bulletproof. I was a Business major so I can't speak to the engineering process. You may be absolutely correct in your engineering assessment. It sounds like you've already caught a 40# yft without any issues. Hopefully, you won't experience any failures.
Everybody,
The answer from "Bob" at Tiburon was interesting because I don't know if he is in the engineering department, or just some guy who answers the e-mails in the front office. This discussion has got me thinking that the next time I have the reels apart I will put the short screws in. I built the 332(a narrowed 338) to have more line capacity then the 322 because of my experience with the fish I referenced. That fish would not have made it to the fish box if I was fishing on a sport boat. My partner was backing my boat down after the fish in sloppy conditions to keep from running out of line. As to the holes in the Tiburon frame for the short screws, they may cross over to some of the Penn reels because both the Tiburon frames I have in my 300 series Newell reels are also used in various Penn reels. Somebody with Penn/Tiburon frame experience can answer that question.
Speedwagon2
Quote from: Newell Nut on March 24, 2015, 01:03:45 AM
Enjoy the spool. ;)
Thought that I would show the final product which really turned out nice, the spool really sets it off
I had a lot of help from Paul Berinson on this, check him out at http://berinsontackle.com/ he has some original / hard-to-find stuff.
Quote from: speedwagon2 on April 01, 2015, 11:14:12 PM
Everybody,
The answer from "Bob" at Tiburon was interesting because I don't know if he is in the engineering department, or just some guy who answers the e-mails in the front office. This discussion has got me thinking that the next time I have the reels apart I will put the short screws in. I built the 332(a narrowed 338) to have more line capacity then the 322 because of my experience with the fish I referenced. That fish would not have made it to the fish box if I was fishing on a sport boat. My partner was backing my boat down after the fish in sloppy conditions to keep from running out of line. As to the holes in the Tiburon frame for the short screws, they may cross over to some of the Penn reels because both the Tiburon frames I have in my 300 series Newell reels are also used in various Penn reels. Somebody with Penn/Tiburon frame experience can answer that question.
Speedwagon2
Yes...the 322/332/338 Tib frames also fit other Penn reels....see Tib list - P20/21/29. http://www.tiburonengineering.com/products/frames
Having said that, I still use the inner Newell screws on my Tib frames. Use the two outer screws as described in this post to align the inner screws and you're set.
That reel looks Awesome Bonita! :o
Bonita, that is a GORGEOUS reel, where did you get that spool?
Thanks guys 8)
Quote from: fIsHsTiiCkS on April 04, 2015, 06:28:41 AM
Bonita, that is a GORGEOUS reel, where did you get that spool?
Check the first post in the thread .... and I think that you may be able to source from Tiburon.
Quote from: fIsHsTiiCkS on April 04, 2015, 06:28:41 AM
Bonita, that is a GORGEOUS reel, where did you get that spool?
Lots of history with that spool.
NN,
I have just taken apart an S235, with the long bolts, in anticipation of installing a Tib Frame. Does Tib provide the screws to replace the "smooth-head" long bolts on the left side plate and their counterpart on the right side plate or will I need to source the hardware elsewhere? What size, style, and thread should I look for?
Cheers,
Chris
The best way to buy the frame is from Gregg Chow and he will furnish the screws. Tib as understand does not furnish screws.
Try Gregg at chowderpuff7@yahoo.com and then follow the instructions in this tutorial and you should be fine.
Thanks! I just bought a frame from him on ebay for a 646. I'll still need a spool though because I actually have a 631 that I want to soup up. I'll post some pictures of my conversion when I finally get underway.
One other question..... does anyone know if I can convert the clicker on my 631 from plastic to metal components?
Try uluajunkies.com
Quote from: codisking on April 12, 2015, 11:39:38 PM
One other question..... does anyone know if I can convert the clicker on my 631 from plastic to metal components?
The standard metal clicker set for a 400 series will fit in a 500/600 series reel. There's also an Accurate kit if you can find it. The Newell kits are pretty easy to find.
Quote from: Newell Nut on April 12, 2015, 12:17:13 AM
The best way to buy the frame is from Gregg Chow and he will furnish the screws. Tib as understand does not furnish screws.
Try Gregg at chowderpuff7@yahoo.com and then follow the instructions in this tutorial and you should be fine.
I don't know if Gregg still provides screws or not.
I recently bought a Tib frame from him and there weren't any screws included.
Maybe he just forgot to put them in with the kit ???