Hi guys,
was considering spooling some braided line. I know that line ratings on reels are for monofilament, and was looking for advice on what type of braided lines/thickness that can fit your spool on different spool sizes.
Will changing your felt drag washers to carbonex increase your reel drag? Recently, i changed my washers but it doesnt seem to me like the drag changed much.
Thanks.
RB, judging drag by how it feels can be pretty misleading. You might not feel a difference at low setting, but the carbonex will give you more range into the high setting and will be smoother when they get hot. Ya gots ta use a scale, as G-fish might say.... :)
There are charts here and elsewhere that compare the diameters of different lines exactly for the purpose you asked about.
Sid
Don't forget to grease the cf with Cals or similar it keeps it smooth with lower startup inertia. You wont necessarily get more drag with greased cf but it will be smoother. Lapping the metal washers also helps.
Oiled felt can work quite well for drags particularly at small drag numbers. But at higher settings I find it gets 'snatchy' - stick - slip - stick - slip etc. Also with long running fish I find felt can loose effectiveness during the fight - requiring tightening of the drag - on one occasion the felt drags failed almost completetly - starting with 15lbs of drag by the end of the fight I had approx 4lb. In the past I've had felt drags be useless after a season of catfishing - I've never had a failure with cf.
Braid is idealy spooled with a line spooling machine. It requires approx. 10lb of drag when spooling. Some guys here will use more drag on heavier braid - I've never found it makes a difference :-\ From my own experiments (and agreeing with Jerry Brown ;)) braid has a very minimal stretch which is removed by approx 10lbs of drag. Using 65lb braid I initially spooled with 10lb of drag. I then removed the line and respooled with 20lb of drag. Within a few feet (for me an acceptable level of uncertainty/accuracy) the spooled capacity was the same.
With braid you can choose the same breaking strain as mono and you get much greater capacity. Or choose the same diameter as mono and get greater breaking strain. Or anything in between - the choice is yours :)
Hope that helps a bit - Chris.
Hi RB, Sid & Chris are right, but I am not sure what type of reel your talking about, I think with felt washers you would be referring to bail arm spinning reels, but if your referring to overhead reels, then make sure, your second eared washer, is set in the groves, or you will not feel any more drag, as you will only be getting drag from one or two CF washers, cheers Don.
Ignore the line breaking strength and go by diameter.
I prefer 60 pound for most of my lite gear (up to 50 pound) but have 20 pound on my small kokanee and steelhead reels, Shimano Calcutta and Curado 50's. For your use, I think, 40 or 60 pound would be what I would recommend.
Most go with at least one lb test range heavier with their braid over their mono/fluoro topshot. That way if the line breaks most likely it will happen in the less costly mono.
Don't look to increase the drag generated by a reel without considering the stress that will be put on other components, stock gears and gear sleeves being near the top of the list for many classic Penn reels. Another way to look at it is that you are giving yourself the opportunity of acquiring many upgraded parts from the good people who hang out here.
Mike
It depends on what type of tackle and fishing you are doing. Felt works fine for light to medium weight tackle where drag will not be over about five pounds. Four pounds of drag will have a light weight rod bent double.
The only pressure I apply when spooling light tackle braid is to hold the line between thumb and forefinger; probably less than a pound of pressure.
-steve
Quote from: sdlehr on April 05, 2018, 11:33:23 AM
RB, judging drag by how it feels can be pretty misleading. You might not feel a difference at low setting, but the carbonex will give you more range into the high setting and will be smoother when they get hot. Ya gots ta use a scale, as G-fish might say.... :)
There are charts here and elsewhere that compare the diameters of different lines exactly for the purpose you asked about.
Sid
I got myself a small pocket measuring and weighing scale that reaches a max of 8 lbs. This is what i use to set my drag these days. I would tie a surgeon loop at the end of the reel line, put it over the "hook" of the scale and pull till i can hit 4/5 lbs. To be honest, your hand starts to hurt when you try to pull 5 lbs constantly to try to pull out line.
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on April 05, 2018, 12:12:46 PM
Don't forget to grease the cf with Cals or similar it keeps it smooth with lower startup inertia. You wont necessarily get more drag with greased cf but it will be smoother. Lapping the metal washers also helps.
Oiled felt can work quite well for drags particularly at small drag numbers. But at higher settings I find it gets 'snatchy' - stick - slip - stick - slip etc. Also with long running fish I find felt can loose effectiveness during the fight - requiring tightening of the drag - on one occasion the felt drags failed almost completetly - starting with 15lbs of drag by the end of the fight I had approx 4lb. In the past I've had felt drags be useless after a season of catfishing - I've never had a failure with cf.
Braid is idealy spooled with a line spooling machine. It requires approx. 10lb of drag when spooling. Some guys here will use more drag on heavier braid - I've never found it makes a difference :-\ From my own experiments (and agreeing with Jerry Brown ;)) braid has a very minimal stretch which is removed by approx 10lbs of drag. Using 65lb braid I initially spooled with 10lb of drag. I then removed the line and respooled with 20lb of drag. Within a few feet (for me an acceptable level of uncertainty/accuracy) the spooled capacity was the same.
With braid you can choose the same breaking strain as mono and you get much greater capacity. Or choose the same diameter as mono and get greater breaking strain. Or anything in between - the choice is yours :)
Hope that helps a bit - Chris.
Thats interesting. Currently using a shimano fx 2500 fb reel to catch nothing but sardines. Might start to oil the felt washers to see if its better then putting shimano tbm grease since i only need a light drag.
I actually have the mustad thor braided fishing line. That was why i was asking about braided lines, as i was wondering if i should start to use the line. Its 30lb, 0.25mm thick and 100 yards long. Seems to me like the only suitable reel size would be those in the 1000 series as it is only 100 yards long. Since i only use small reels for fishing sardines, it seems like overkill to use 30 lb braid for something that only needs like 6 lb line. I could try to spool the shimano fx fb with braid but i recently spooled it with normal 10 lb mono, and the line capacity of the 2500 fx fb reel is 6-200 8-140 10-120(lbs-yds). 0.25 mm is the thickness of normal 6 lb line i believe, which means this braid can only spool half of the reel since the cap is 6-200 and the braid is only 100 yds long(correct me if i am wrong), which is zzzz..... I also dont have a spooling machine which is double zzz......
Why do i need drag to spool braid anyway? Do i need drag to spool mono?
Quote from: Donnyboat on April 05, 2018, 03:05:02 PM
Hi RB, Sid & Chris are right, but I am not sure what type of reel your talking about, I think with felt washers you would be referring to bail arm spinning reels, but if your referring to overhead reels, then make sure, your second eared washer, is set in the groves, or you will not feel any more drag, as you will only be getting drag from one or two CF washers, cheers Don.
Yes, i am refer to spinning reels. It is the only reel that i know how to use and service...
Quote from: oc1 on April 05, 2018, 06:38:51 PM
It depends on what type of tackle and fishing you are doing. Felt works fine for light to medium weight tackle where drag will not be over about five pounds. Four pounds of drag will have a light weight rod bent double.
-steve
Thats really interesting. If you recall i bought a Okuma Azul last year at a clearance sale which i serviced on my own. It had a stainless gear train so i was thinking of upgrading the washers to carbonex. The carbonex washers which i recently got was for another reel, which i bought from a tackle shop that was imported from smooth drag(It had smooth drag plastered all over the packaging). I spooled the Azul with 30 lb high tensile line. This week, i caught my first grouper(orange spotted grouper) with this reel. The reel cranks more silently now, after catching the grouper. I believe the grouper gave the reel and its gear a good work out. Was thinking of trying to hit 7 lbs of drag with this reel and wondering if carbonex washers are the way to go since i need to like turn the drag knob almost all the way to hit that drag range.
And oh wow that grouper was only like over 2 lbs and it made my arm hurt to pull it out of the water. Was like trying to pull out a rock from the sea. The only indication it was a fish when the grouper turn its head slightly in the water, and you could feel some kind of movement/vibration.
Using braid you should be able to feel everything the fish does, mono (because of stretch) masks some of the 'feel'.
For very light tackle oiled felt or carbontex will be fine - both will produce adequate drag - even with tiny spinners ;) I still prefer greased cf because once installed they require very little attention.
For spooling light braid use whatever drag you can get.
For mono NO DRAG - applying drag with mono can pop plastic/light weight alloy spools. For light mono I chuck the spool in a bucket of water and run the line through my fingers applying enough force to keep the line straight. Yes there will be some line twist - it's inevitable with spinners - but when you cast the twist 'unwinds'. If you don't want line twist get a baitcaster/conventional.
Quote from: Reel Beaker on April 06, 2018, 06:20:14 AM
Why do i need drag to spool braid anyway? Do i need drag to spool mono?
Again, forget pound test. Spool the 30# and then top off the reel with mono. Tie a 10' section of mono or Dacron on the spool and then tie the braid to the mono/Dacron to keep the braid from slipping on the spool.
Why use Spectra?
#1 low stretch
#2 small diameter
#3 is not effected by IR and lasts far longer than mono
You need to pack braid tight so it does not dig into the line, mono needs some but VERRY LITTLE, do not over tension mono and stretch it when spooling, you will damage spools. Jerry Brown recommends 10# of drag when spooling Spectra.
Quote from: Reel Beaker on April 06, 2018, 06:20:14 AMSince i only use small reels for fishing sardines, it seems like overkill to use 30 lb braid for something that only needs like 6 lb line.
The 30# braid will give you the advantages that Lee described, be small enough to cast well and large enough to handle well. If you feel like you are over-gunned then use a 6# leader.
-steve
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on April 05, 2018, 12:12:46 PM
Don't forget to grease the cf with Cals or similar it keeps it smooth with lower startup inertia. You wont necessarily get more drag with greased cf but it will be smoother. Lapping the metal washers also helps.
Oiled felt can work quite well for drags particularly at small drag numbers. But at higher settings I find it gets 'snatchy' - stick - slip - stick - slip etc. Also with long running fish I find felt can loose effectiveness during the fight - requiring tightening of the drag - on one occasion the felt drags failed almost completetly - starting with 15lbs of drag by the end of the fight I had approx 4lb. In the past I've had felt drags be useless after a season of catfishing - I've never had a failure with cf.
Hope that helps a bit - Chris.
What is lapping metal washers?
Why did your drag drop with long running fish? As more line on your spool get depleted, isnt your drag suppose to increase by a factor of 2 when it gets to half its original capacity?
Lapping is using a flat surface with an abrasive to try and make the washer as flat as possible so it has even contact with the drag material. Like sanding but on a flat surface.
The felt drags lost the ability to provide friction so the drag numbers decreased
As Sheridan said - when I checked the felt washers they had a hard glazed surface, almost burnt looking. Thus reducing the coefficient of friction to a fraction of what I started with.