Hi everyone,
While searching for reals online I came across some reels from China. Please before anyone start bashing China and made in China products. At least give it a chance. Has anyone purchased any of these reels and did a taredown?
I saw reels made or sold by different vendors.
There's these lurekiller reel I saw on YouTube. And on eBay and amazon. Under $150.
Also these 2 speed reel. With no name and also gomexus 2 speed trolling reels.
Anyone have any experience with these reels?
One of them advertised as cnc stainless steel gear and shaft and some are brass shaft.
Spinning - https://youtu.be/KqYw8U3xVe4
2 speed reel - https://youtu.be/XtpAjLbvSLk
Spinning - https://youtu.be/QwkYaC0wCS8
Spinning - https://youtu.be/IrvAaiEvVO8
They may work fine......for a while. If there isn't a mechanism in place to get parts in the future, than it is a gamble. Just my opinion. Most of my reels are 20-30+ years old and I can still obtain parts for them.
That blue & silver Lurekiller is NOT a Saltist. I bought a 11000 to use as a trolly reel from the beach & pier for $32.00. When it breaks I'll just trash it. Lots of plastic & die cast metal. Rudy
Proof would be to give them a try on some big game, hard fighting fish like bluefin tuna, or large yellowfin even a big shark or two and the abuse of repeated saltwater trips where the reels get wet. I would be concerned with parts and warranty also.
I made the mistake of buying one of those made in china 50 w reel Nothing but a nightmare. Drag went from not much to lock down in about 1/4 inch on lever. Exterior parts started rusting first trip stainless they were not. Just plain carbon steel. Drag locked up solid when put into gear the smallest amount. Couldnt get consistant drag settings. One time high next low Kept taking it back and back and back but a 200 mile round trip each time. Finally lost my patience and sold it to a guy who doesnt take care of his gear at all. Hes happy with it locked down permanently and i bought an atd 80 .
Ya get what you pay for pretty much especially in the new equipment market.
Quote from: RowdyW on May 28, 2019, 11:08:06 PM
That blue & silver Lurekiller is NOT a Saltist. I bought a 11000 to use as a trolly reel from the beach & pier for $32.00. When it breaks I'll just trash it. Lots of plastic & die cast metal. Rudy
Picture?
Quote from: bill19803 on May 29, 2019, 03:29:30 AM
I made the mistake of buying one of those made in china 50 w reel Nothing but a nightmare. Drag went from not much to lock down in about 1/4 inch on lever. Exterior parts started rusting first trip stainless they were not. Just plain carbon steel. Drag locked up solid when put into gear the smallest amount. Couldnt get consistant drag settings. One time high next low Kept taking it back and back and back but a 200 mile round trip each time. Finally lost my patience and sold it to a guy who doesnt take care of his gear at all. Hes happy with it locked down permanently and i bought an atd 80 .
Ya get what you pay for pretty much especially in the new equipment market.
Picture?
very pretty, but some reels are not meant to catch fish...
they're meant to catch cheap fishermen :o
Ultramix, Are you affiliated with these reels in any way? I think you should post in the Welcome section of the forum and tell us a little about yourself. That is the place for us to welcome you to the site.
Scott
Reels made in China get a bad rap. However, China is beginning to feel the pinch of a higher standard of living and, thus, higher costs of production just like in the West. Chinese companies are doing most of their reel manufacturing in Indonesia and Malaysia now. Mainland China, Taiwan, Korea and, indeed, most Asian countries are completely capable of producing a higher quality reel if the consumer were willing to pay for it.
What the hobby needs is a return to good old-fashioned elitism where only the rich can afford the equipment and time to go fishing :)
-steve
Country of origin isn't the problem typically. The problem is the company backing the production/quality control and being able to obtain replacement parts as needed. Daiwa makes reels in China and my kids have 2 of them. They work fine and I can get genuine Daiwa parts if I need to. I don't think "Gomexus" and "Lurekiller" parts are going to be readily available.
I have to say that some chinese reels are well designed. The build quality on them is ok-ish but some areas leave a bit to be desired. I bought a Camekoon WT4000 spinning reel. Its design is well done but there are some minor imperfections in the build quality but not sufficient to detract from its functionality. For instance the sideplate screws I replaced with some left over from my first frame mod on my GTO 220, cleaned and greased the internals and reassembled correctly the drag stack which surprisingly had carbonfiber washers.
I was surprised that the pinion gear, oscillating gear and crosswind block are made of stainless steel, the main gear is made of bronze, The stainless alloy and bronze may not be of premium quality but are far superior then brass and pot metal used in 95% of spinners today.
I took some pics showing the internals of my Camekoon WT400
I keep a record of my reels service & repair history. Some reels have over 200 entries. I did not date my final comment, but remember it was very corroded.
BANNEX ZEST 100
5-Apr-08
Bought this tiny chinese reel for squid for $30
Loaded some 12lb line, had a cast with a 25 gr sinker and it worked well
Its got some features of a more expensive reel, and works well.
Will it last?
7-Dec-08
How do you open it?
prize" it appart! Not good.
Right side plate "twists" off.
This is and has always been a "LOUSY" reel
~ T H E E N D ~
As far as I know Banax is a south korean company with decent products. My first multiplier is a Banax OW7300 which so far served me well and not excluding that they may have some lemons as all the other makers fishing tackle.
Quote from: Tile on April 15, 2020, 08:24:39 PMAs far as I know Banax is a south korean company with decent products. My first multiplier is a Banax OW7300 which so far served me well and not excluding that they may have some lemons as all the other makers fishing tackle.
I've heard good things about Banax. I believe they made the older Millionaires for Daiwa (or was it vice-versa?).
I am not excluding that they may be the the OEM for some of the well known fishing tackle makers (on my Abu Revo XW-L there is a sticker saying Made in Korea which cold mean that Banax may be the ones manufacturing some reels for Abu).
Quote from: Tile on April 15, 2020, 08:24:39 PM
As far as I know Banax is a south korean company with decent products. My first multiplier is a Banax OW7300 which so far served me well and not excluding that they may have some lemons as all the other makers fishing tackle.
I've heard good things about Banax. I believe they made the older Millionaires for Daiwa (or was it vice-versa?).
[/quote]
When I posted this, I was wondering if someone was going to take me on at this as I remember I bought it because it had a "fairly good" reputation. Did not know it was from south korea, but then I don't always care too much about where it is made.
But my experience was not good, which may not always be the result of manufacture either. :-\
I have several Kastking Katmai fly reels - Very well made (machined). All the bearings are a standard metric size. Smooth, sealed, powerful mutidisc drag (replaced original with greased cf). For the money they can't be touched. The 9/10 weight is an excellent saltwater reel. They are superior to many 'Western' reels in terms of build quality. They won some awards when they first came on the scene. Just because it's says PRC doesn't mean it's crap.
Having said that for more complcated reels (where various spares will be needed) I would still go for one of the big boys.
Have been let down too many times by poor quality Chinese reels.
If I didn't buy the reels for me, then they were bought for my two kids.
Perhaps higher quality Chinese reels would have been a better option for me at the time, but what exactly is a 'higher quality Chinese reel?'
Until I know, I'll stick to my tried and tested Dam Quick's and Alvey's.
I love simplicity in engineering, plus they can handle big fish.
There are some good quality ones but there are also a lot of them which I would consider junk. Whenever I see a spinning reel with a pot metal main gear, irrespective of its maker I steer clear from it, just not worth it.
Here what I found in the interweb (yeah so it must be true),
Metallurgy
Chinese reels may look and function like their $$$$ counterparts, but a few reels a guy on amazon tested over time showed signed of inferior metallurgy.
Learned a hard lesson when we bought pressure parts for power plants from China. Horrible metallurgy and horrible reliability due to leaks.
Dwight
There are many good mid-sized spinners with alloy main gear, even aluminum. My Okuma Helios just keeps going and going - smoothly - with its aluminum main. My Pflueger Supreme MG with alloy "pot metal" main, has taken many big snook, never an issue. IMHO, unless you're using your reel like a winch, gear metallurgy isn't that critical... pump & reel, pump & reel! ;D
But pinion gears, however, must be steel!
Edit: Big game is another story of course.
Quote from: kiwiretzev on April 17, 2020, 06:55:16 AM
Have been let down too many times by poor quality Chinese reels.
If I didn't buy the reels for me, then they were bought for my two kids.
Perhaps higher quality Chinese reels would have been a better option for me at the time, but what exactly is a 'higher quality Chinese reel?'
Until I know, I'll stick to my tried and tested Dam Quick's and Alvey's.
I love simplicity in engineering, plus they can handle big fish.
Paul asked a good question -- how do we know exactly what a higher quality Chinese reel is?
IMO, a poor quality Chinese reel is inexpensive, is built with a lot of anodized and plastic parts, and you cannot get replacement parts -- EVER -- (even if you buy an identical replacement reel for parts -- many times the parts will not interchange anymore because the reels are somehow different.)
A high quality Chinese reel is (3) times as expensive, is built with a lot of anodized and plastic parts, and you still cannot get replacement parts for it.
There are exceptions -- Penn China reels are of a very decent quality. And parts are available.
Best, Fred
I own several "flame" series spinning reels made by Piscifun, and after two years of rough use with kids, getting dunked in saltwater, and rinsing and oil they have held up just as well as the name brand "usual" types do. They are just as well made as comparable price point items from the other guys, and better than the usual name brand reels that you see on the cheap combos at many retailers.
I gave a way a Penn battle recently because it was nowhere near as smooth at twice the price, even with proper care.
Quote from: foakes on April 17, 2020, 03:00:30 PM
Quote from: kiwiretzev on April 17, 2020, 06:55:16 AM
Have been let down too many times by poor quality Chinese reels.
If I didn't buy the reels for me, then they were bought for my two kids.
Perhaps higher quality Chinese reels would have been a better option for me at the time, but what exactly is a 'higher quality Chinese reel?'
Until I know, I'll stick to my tried and tested Dam Quick's and Alvey's.
I love simplicity in engineering, plus they can handle big fish.
Paul asked a good question -- how do we know exactly what a higher quality Chinese reel is?
IMO, a poor quality Chinese reel is inexpensive, is built with a lot of anodized and plastic parts, and you cannot get replacement parts -- EVER -- (even if you buy an identical replacement reel for parts -- many times the parts will not interchange anymore because the reels are somehow different.)
A high quality Chinese reel is (3) times as expensive, is built with a lot of anodized and plastic parts, and you still cannot get replacement parts for it.
There are exceptions -- Penn China reels are of a very decent quality. And parts are available.
Best, Fred
That explanation, and advice, IMHO, is one of various reasons not to buy China made stuff. ;)
For those of you who think that bringing new participants into the sport of fishing is a good thing, disposable Chinese reels, spincast reels and Mickey Mouse combos have their place. If the entry point is too pricy then nobody will give the sport a try. Personally, I think the sport should be more expensive and elitist and all reels should be machined by hand.
-steve
:)
yeah, and do a training course akin to Basic, before you get a license...
and pay annual dues to The Piscatorial Bar...
and after 10 yrs. in good standing...
They let you LOOK at Steve's Private Ocean ;D
Quote from: oc1 on April 17, 2020, 07:03:37 PM
For those of you who think that bringing new participants into the sport of fishing is a good thing, disposable Chinese reels, spincast reels and Mickey Mouse combos have their place. If the entry point is too pricy then nobody will give the sport a try. Personally, I think the sport should be more expensive and elitist and all reels should be machined by hand.
-steve
:)
Oh, I duno, it seems like Zebco did a pretty darn good job over the years getting people interested in fishing reasonably with USA made stuff. ;)
I agree Tommy. Zebco did an excellent job. Follow the money.
-steve
Hello all,
I am curious about this question too. And I have found little consistent information. I have seem some praise them as value monsters that can disrupt the big guys, others dismiss them without trying them. Here is my two cents. Caveat is that I have a sample of one here, and this is only my opinion.
I got a Piscifun spinning reel about one and a half years ago. I wanted a light reel for stream and river fishing. I was using a Pflueger President 4000, so wanted to try something lighter for long days out. The Pfluger I still have and use [15+ years], no issues, and also Made in China...
So I bought the 3000 Carbon X model for about US$60. There was some kind of promotion and it came with a second shallow spool, always nice. I like research and wanted to find more about this company before. Whatever was online looked like sponsored content. Anyways I decided to take a chance at this price.
Here is my evaluation:
I will admit, one reason I bought this reel was looks. Yes, I am a functionalist at heart, but it doesn't hurt if it looks good too. This one looks good to me in all black, and it has a skeletonized spool [machined, they claim...] attractive and probably saves weight too. Basically looks like Daiwa Tatula to me, maybe this was the inspiration. They would call this a 'homage' in the watch industry.
The weight of the reel is as advertised, about 220g, almost half the weight of my Pfluger. So far so good. It has good hand feel, and the screw-in handle and EVA knob is solid with minimal play. I also like the operation of the bale, solid and reliable trips. The drag is smooth too. They claim 10kg max - not sure if this number means anything in practice but no complaints yet.
At the beginning the reel was fine but I started hearing gear friction soon. I opened to check it out and the reel was very dry inside. I have similar experience with watch movements supplied from China - they can work well and some are based on expired Swiss patents, but they come dry and need to be lubricated proper. Lubing and even shimming didn't get rid of the gear nose, so I suspect it is down to loose manufacturing tolerances. There have not been any major failures otherwise, except that the drag knob clicker broke so now I have a quite drag adjustment. Fine.
After a full service, I can confirm 'specflation'. I refer here to inflation of technical specifications, or at worst, false advertising:
- 10 stainless steel bearings: I found 10 but some [less critical ones] were plastic. Yes, keeps weight down, but misleading.
- Carbon fiber body: It is made of some composite but not carbon fiber. Don't worry I was not expecting a carbon fibre reel for $60, just to give the example.
- Salt rated: Yes it has a seal on the drag. But nothing on the handle, and nothing on the shaft [and spool is skeletonized, like a said]. I don't do any salt fishing so not huge deal. But looks like they started the job and not finished it. Confusing.
Overall the reel had potential. Especially at 60USD range. But this is a competitive market segment. If I could repeat, I would not buy this specific reel. I cannot get over the spec-flation. Sorry if I am too critical, especially at this price point. For some this is not a lot of money, for some maybe not. Besides, my reference point in another Made in China machine [Pfluger President] at a similar price point. So I think there is a meaningful difference between 'Chinese Reels' and 'Made in China Reels'. If I had to fish for my life tomorrow, I choose my 15 yr old Pfluger over a new Pisicfun, no question. If the fish bite is another problem!
Finally, already mentioned by Fred and others long term value and sourcing parts for this kind of reel would be an issue. This is probably why after searching this forum for what look like popular Chinese tackle brands I found little results. I speculate these reels are not really made to be repaired, so not big surprise there is relatively little talk about them on this kind of forum.
All best
Bora
Most Penn reels are made in China including my Fathom and Battle reels. Made in China doesn't mean junk... where are most iPhones made anyway?
There are a couple of ways of looking at these modern Asian reels compared to perhaps a Penn, or another brand that has tight tolerances that will not degrade due to cheaper alloys and weaker components —-
First...the most expensive reel you will ever buy is the one that doesn't work.
Second...the best value reel you will ever buy is the one that doesn't need replacement.
One last thing —- with the exception of cosmetic, trim, and plastic bling parts —- every other spring, bearing, bail, handle, and gears —- are manufactured by (3) companies in China.
All of these other brands are just the basic parts slapped together with enough colorful sleek plastic to attract the fisherman with the wallet —- not necessarily to fish effectively for a half century, or more.
A company decides to come out with a reel or a series of reels —- and just sources parts from the lowest bidder that month.
You will never need to be concerned about getting replacement parts in the future —- because there is no customer support or replacement parts available.
Having said this, there are many good companies and brands from Asia and China (Penn, Shimano, Daiwa, Pflueger, DQ, etc.) But most of them are not copycats —- they are solid, established firms that have moved production to Asia in order to keep up with the competition and stay in business. Around 25% of the Asian reels fall into this class —- the other 75% are a waste of money and disposable.
Best, Fred
Quote from: MarkT on December 28, 2022, 02:17:37 AMMost Penn reels are made in China including my Fathom and Battle reels. Made in China doesn't mean junk... where are most iPhones made anyway?
[/quote
Completely agree. This is my point also. I have just a feeling that quality control is better and product promises are more realistic, when it's made in China for an already established brand compared to a new brand. There is quality coming out of
China no question. And here we can replace China with other country + other product. It's difficult to get market share as a new player, especially with relatively consolidates supply chains. What is the best way to do that i leave to the experts. In my case if they promised less I would probably be more content with the product. I can evaluate only on the expectations they gave me from the start. They all do it, but there are degrees.
I really dislike Chinese products. They have taken over hardware production and I curse them every time a nut or bolt just twists right off or corrodes quickly. Stainless? A joke. I check every pkg for the 'Made in China' label and put it back if I have any other option.
I love my Penns but have zero Chinese reels. I wish there was a way to restore the American quality I remember. All that said, I did buy some freshwater TICA reels that served me well for a few years. Oh well.
Ditto Randy!
I never buy anything made in China and never will, no matter the cost, as long as I have another option. I only have 3 "made in China" Abu Garcia Cardinal 3 & 33 NIB collectable (because of their rarity) Shelf Queens. Fortunately, since I have 500+ vintage spinning reels to choose from, I'll never have to resort to buying a spinning reel that was "made in China" to use.
Those are an Accurate copy.
Interesting. The latest superpower/empire on the scene, China. If they haven't already, will they ever put out any real high-quality, real expensive consumer products?
Quote from: handi2 on December 28, 2022, 06:41:50 PMThose are an Accurate copy.
What are "an Accurate copy", Keith?
Quote from: oc1 on April 17, 2020, 07:03:37 PMFor those of you who think that bringing new participants into the sport of fishing is a good thing, disposable Chinese reels, spincast reels and Mickey Mouse combos have their place. If the entry point is too pricy then nobody will give the sport a try. Personally, I think the sport should be more expensive and elitist and all reels should be machined by hand.
-steve
:)Gota throw my 2 cents in on this subject. First, any newbie to the sport should seek out a nice used combo that hasn't been abused. If it's a little older, it's a good chance it's better quality. Then if they don't like fishing (shudder) they won't feel bad about dumping a bunch of money. As for China reels,,, I believe they produce some of the best home decoration items at very reasonable prices and should stick to what they do best. 80's and older quality reels which are readily available and mostly American made, is the best way to go in my opinion. I have heard the "it's to heavy" argument and firmly believe a little exercise to strengthen your arms would be a better choice than a light weight Chinese reel!
The conventional reel shown is an Accurate copy.
When I bought the UNDERHEAD spinning reel it was an Accurate copy too.
Interesting perspectives, folks. The segment of the market overlooked here are the folks that fish a week or less per year. They buy cheap combos from the convenience store or bait shop or Wallyworld...whatever... and do their thing. (OR they borrow your stuff and step on it) There are lots of people in that market segment and an enormous amount of fishing stuff is made in Asia just for them. There's no aspect of compromise there.
Those who fish for weeks or months per year have a much different perspective. We have expectations formed by the use of quality stuff and the wherewithal to take care of it. We know at the point of sale when we're compromising stainless for some alloy and metal for plastic or composite. We also know when the quality is adequate but is not excellent like it used to be....more importantly... like it should be.
What used to be excellently mass-produced now has to be custom-built. What is mass-produced in Asia is more often just good enough or less.
I gotta say, people ask me frequently what reel to buy. And as I've gotten more experienced at reel work I find it harder to give a good answer. They wanna get it new on Amazon not eBay or Craigslist. But most of it sucks.
Certainly! I think having more choice at more price segments is a good thing, in general.
I do not know if the fishing space is more or less 'democratic' now than it used to be, or probably just seems to be so... Thinking for example of DAM Pirate reels, even Mitchell 300s, but not an expert on this and not sure how their prices compare across generations.
Anyways they say "democracy is a slow process of stumbling to the right decision instead of going straight forward to the wrong one." True in politics and in fishing I think. So I am enjoying stumbling along and learning new things.
Don't get me wrong, it's not all bad. In 2016 the BG (made in China) redefined what a $100 reel looked like. That changed the expectations of the fishing public, and the entire tackle industry shifted in response. This was unequivocally a wonderful thing.
When people ask me now about affordable spinners, I tell them to get a shimano spheros. Coincidentally those are made in Malaysia not China.
Well, echoing Tommy, I have lots of 20-30 year old reels in both spinning,fly and conventional. I will never have to use junk reels.
We can thank Alan one more time for educating a lot of us. The Professor kept us from senseless purchases over the years. We didn't need everything we bought but the knowledge he shared steered us away from lots of inferior products, and gifted us the ability to discern the difference. :al :al :al
Remember China steals our technology and does not recognize any countries patents do they can copy anything for a profit.
Keith
That's not quite how patents work. Countries only recognize patents granted by their own national legal system. Countries are kind of big on maintaining sovereignty. (The EU is a minor exception. Since there is sort of a regional legal structure, you can apply for a patent across the EU in lieu of going to each member state individually.)
Can't work any other way. Otherwise China would have to recognize and enforce US patent law, and vice-versa. Don't see that working out too well..
-J
Quote from: jurelometer on January 05, 2023, 01:33:56 AMThat's not quite how patents work. Countries only recognize patents granted by their own national legal system. ....Can't work any other way. Otherwise China would have to recognize and enforce US patent law, and vice-versa. Don't see that working out too well..
Whoa!
Common sense & factual info instead of emotional rants & vitriol on the internets-who'd a' thunk it?
Quote from: whalebreath on January 07, 2023, 09:59:12 PMQuote from: jurelometer on January 05, 2023, 01:33:56 AMThat's not quite how patents work. Countries only recognize patents granted by their own national legal system. ....Can't work any other way. Otherwise China would have to recognize and enforce US patent law, and vice-versa. Don't see that working out too well..
Whoa!
Common sense & factual info instead of emotional rants & vitriol on the internets-who'd a' thunk it?
Still doesn't stop China from stealing the technologies & designs, reproducing them and then trying to pass their garbage off as authentic. >:D Gibson is merely one isolated example. ;)
Quote from: whalebreath on January 07, 2023, 09:59:12 PMQuote from: jurelometer on January 05, 2023, 01:33:56 AMThat's not quite how patents work. Countries only recognize patents granted by their own national legal system. ....Can't work any other way. Otherwise China would have to recognize and enforce US patent law, and vice-versa. Don't see that working out too well..
Whoa!
Common sense & factual info instead of emotional rants & vitriol on the internets-who'd a' thunk it?
Appreciate the kind words.
-J
If I'm not mistaken, wasn't the earliest documented "fishing reel apparatus thing" made somewhere in the Far East? IF that is true.....hmmmmm.
It wouldn't excuse modern-day improprieties but in concept, somebody "took" that first contraption and started something. The same could possibly be said for gunpowder, guns, cannons, artillery, plates, bowls, candles, ad infinitum.
Frustrating when somebody takes your stuff and copies it but the practice does have "interesting" roots.
The infuriating modern aspect is when the copy is a cheap knock-off after careers were spent on a quality original.
Generalising everything out of China as bad is a fool's game nowadays. Plenty of quality items being produced there - but critical to highlight that these items are being made by established brands with reputations to uphold, and most importantly, with quality control at the end of the process.
The no-name stuff is being produced with no investment in R&D, it is just a cosmetic copy of the "real deal" object - accordingly, things like metallurgy go out the window because the company producing the item fundamentally does not understand the end use. And when they've finished their run of 1000 "Shinmanu Stello" reels, there's nobody doing anything more than cursory QC before they're boxed up and sold to unsuspecting fishermen thinking they've cracked the code to getting quality gear at 1/10th the price.
At least the Penn Fathoms are a good reel coming from China
Quote from: boon on January 10, 2023, 08:04:46 PMGeneralising everything out of China as bad is a fool's game nowadays. Plenty of quality items being produced there - but critical to highlight that these items are being made by established brands with reputations to uphold, and most importantly, with quality control at the end of the process.
The no-name stuff is being produced with no investment in R&D, it is just a cosmetic copy of the "real deal" object - accordingly, things like metallurgy go out the window because the company producing the item fundamentally does not understand the end use. And when they've finished their run of 1000 "Shinmanu Stello" reels, there's nobody doing anything more than cursory QC before they're boxed up and sold to unsuspecting fishermen thinking they've cracked the code to getting quality gear at 1/10th the price.
That's what I's wondering about. I thought they had to have some high quality stuff, I just haven't seen it or heard about it yet. Any examples?
Ok, slightly off topic, but I found a good deal on Sufix Tritanium Plus line, but then I saw it is currently made in "Gina" :D so I am hesitating to buy it. I've read good things about it, but that was from way back. Any comments about this line from more recently?
Quote from: Gfish on January 11, 2023, 06:11:11 AMThat's what I's wondering about. I thought they had to have some high quality stuff, I just haven't seen it or heard about it yet. Any examples?
Chinese factories make what we pay them to make. If you ask what's the cheapest you can make something, well the cheapest is pretty cheaply made. But their workforce also contains skilled craftsmen who take pride in their work, and being Chinese doesn't negate that.
Van staal is made in China. And while I have a lot I don't like about those reels I have to acknowledge that workmanship is superb. IPhones are made in China. I'm team android but they're not cheap junk. Lots of batteries, ceramic bearings, and a lot of machining in general comes from there.
And let's not forget some cheap crap is still made here too. If we judge a country by the worst they have to offer, none of us look good.
Quote from: foakes on December 28, 2022, 02:29:25 AM.................
Having said this, there are many good companies and brands from Asia and China (Penn, Shimano, Daiwa, Pflueger, DQ, etc.) But most of them are not copycats —- they are solid, established firms that have moved production to Asia in order to keep up with the competition and stay in business. Around 25% of the Asian reels fall into this class —- the other 75% are a waste of money and disposable.
Best, Fred
I have said this before and apologise for those I am boring, but in the early days when Okuma was largely unknow (here in any event) I purchased CONTURA CR-453CS from a company in the states for $110-00. I still have it, I used it a lot it worked satisfactorily but I never liked it. It is still perfectly useful!
The build and quality was not up to scratch and when something broke I would complain to the local agent and in a week or two the replacement part would simply arrive free of charge in my letterbox. This happened 3 times.
This is the best service I ever received from any reel manufacturer.
I could probably still get $35 for it if I sold it now.
Being older than dirt, I remember when "Made in Japan" was equal to "Junk", much like everyone is talking about "Made in China" today. How things have changed.
Quote from: Cor on January 11, 2023, 06:38:45 PMQuote from: foakes on December 28, 2022, 02:29:25 AM.................
Having said this, there are many good companies and brands from Asia and China (Penn, Shimano, Daiwa, Pflueger, DQ, etc.) But most of them are not copycats —- they are solid, established firms that have moved production to Asia in order to keep up with the competition and stay in business. Around 25% of the Asian reels fall into this class —- the other 75% are a waste of money and disposable.
Best, Fred
I have said this before and apologise for those I am boring, but in the early days when Okuma was largely unknow (here in any event) I purchased CONTURA CR-453CS from a company in the states for $110-00. I still have it, I used it a lot it worked satisfactorily but I never liked it. It is still perfectly useful!
The build and quality was not up to scratch and when something broke I would complain to the local agent and in a week or two the replacement part would simply arrive free of charge in my letterbox. This happened 3 times.
This is the best service I ever received from any reel manufacturer.
I could probably still get $35 for it if I sold it now.
Okuma has been, and still is —- an excellent tackle manufacturer, Cor —-
I hope they continue their strong customer service and parts support.
They should, since they seem to have a better grasp on their manufacturing model and philosophy than a couple of other Japanese-based manufacturers —- who used to have excellent service and parts support — Shimano & Daiwa.
This goes for the rest of Asia also —- many of the manufacturers have some pretty good products. The average angling consumer probably will never know the difference —- since they have always fished disposable reels.
The guys on our site will have the knowledge to discern the difference.
Lot of my tools and equipment come from Asia —- but I would like to think that I can judge quality —- and also am able to weigh the advantages of value —- price, quality, materials, etc..
I think of what my Dad told me when I was a kid —-
Buy the best true quality tools you can afford. They will end up being the cheapest. If you don't have enough money for the good quality —- wait a while until you do have enough.
And, when we keep having to make excuses to justify a less than acceptable tool performance and quality —- it is likely the wrong choice.
Reels are just tools.
They should hold up for many decades, catch lots of fish capably, keep going, and have part replacement support.
Best, Fred
Quote from: foakes on January 11, 2023, 07:19:54 PMReels are just tools.
Best, Fred
I used to think Reels and rods were just tools, but since few years ago for me they are no longer simple tools, they're TOYS!! and let me tell you some of them are pretty expensive toys ;D
and pretty sure thats how are considered by many guys, thats why some reels ended up on a cabinet as queen shelf or as a collector trophy, you dont see many guys collecting hammers or screwdrivers but many here collect reels, the older the better, if you treat your average reels as average tools they will last just one season but if you treat them as toys that give you happiness they will last decades.
I never felt any excitement when I modify a tool as when I modify a reel, but yep, in part you're right, some guys treat and consider they reels as simple tools that dont need any modification or service until its broke and then just blame the brand and buy another.
I fill confess to accumulating Estwing hammers with the stacked leather handles. Beyond that, tools are tools.