Hi guys,
Need some help and advice here. Facing the following difficulties:
1. Drawing line while tying rigs.
Have been tying some rigs with 30 lb mono. Everytime i draw the line to clinch and secure the knot, the line kinds of curls up at the knot, near where the swivel lies. I want the line to be continuous throughout the rigs with a nice circular bend in the middle, not curling at the ends.. Any idea what i can do to tie a more beautiful rig?
2. Aerodynamics of your rig.
Been casting some bottom rigs with a 3-way swivel. The hook line is longer than the sinker line meaning the the bait is at the bottom of the rig, followed by the sinker. It seems that any rig where the sinker is not at the bottom of the rig is not aerodynamic sound and is difficult to cast....Been having a really hard time to cast this rig. Any advice?
3. Dead bait keeps falling out.
My dead sardines keep falling out as i cast my rigs? The rig is the one i mentioned above with the 3-way swivel. I have been hooking my dead sardines as i would to a live one, that is above the lateral line. Is there a better way to hook dead sardines? I dont cast my live sardines, just use a float and them swim where they want.
4. Best way to secure a fishing lure to your mainline.
Been thinking of trying freshwater fishing and tying a fishing lure to my mainline. What is the best way to do so? The perfection loop?
My 2 cents
1. Wet the knot with silava so it slides easier
2. Got nothing on that one. I have the sinker at to bottom to keep the bait suspended
3. Try hooking them thru the head and using those little rubber bands dentist use for braces or some kind of floss to tie the bait on. Dead sardines get mushy. If you're using frozen get the salt cured ones. Also casting motion is important. Practice casting so you using one smooth continuous motion and eliminate and sudden jerks. Might lose some distance but it's better than no bait
4. Try learning the palomar knot. Very fast and easy to tie with a good breaking strength. There's a lot of great knots but I'm not great at knots and stick to easy ones. I pretty much know 5 knots and stick with those and manage to get by
Sounds like you've been fishing. Where are the pictures? Post em up!
I'm sure there much be more sound advice from others but really no pictures? Come man! Pictures!
Dead sardine can be tricky, they get mushy. Try putting the frozen ones in a cooler then give them a liberal coating of rock salt. This helps make them a little harder. Regarding the curling of the line. I have found some mono and flouro lines curl when tied and it is not necessarily the cheaper lines.
A good trick with dead sardines is to rig them fresh and THEN froze them . You can cast with confidence and the sardines defroze slowly in the water .
Quote from: Reel Beaker on March 16, 2018, 03:35:14 PM
2. Aerodynamics of your rig.
Been casting some bottom rigs with a 3-way swivel. The hook line is longer than the sinker line meaning the the bait is at the bottom of the rig, followed by the sinker. It seems that any rig where the sinker is not at the bottom of the rig is not aerodynamic sound and is difficult to cast....Been having a really hard time to cast this rig. Any advice?
3. Dead bait keeps falling out.
My dead sardines keep falling out as i cast my rigs? The rig is the one i mentioned above with the 3-way swivel. I have been hooking my dead sardines as i would to a live one, that is above the lateral line. Is there a better way to hook dead sardines? I dont cast my live sardines, just use a float and them swim where they want.
Hi, I'll respond to #2 and 3. Are you trying to make long casts? When you cast, does the bait and weight "helicopter" apart, spinning as it flies? I had this same problem with a slip sinker (fishfinder) rig. The solution was to shorten the snell length of the hook to about 6 inches. I also put a plastic bead above the sinker, to slow it from slipping too far up the line, but this doesn't apply to your rig. I would focus on shortening the distance between the 3 way swivel and the hook, and also the distance between the swivel and the sinker. Less distance - less helicoptering. The fish don't care if the hook is close to the sinker. If you need the bait to float off the bottom, a slip rig would let you do that. Once the sinker is set on bottom, you can let out some line and the bait will drift away from the sinker. Shortening the rig allows more of your casting force to move the rig forward, as oposed to being transferred into the spinning action.
That "helicoptering" force (assuming that is happening) may also be what is throwing your bait off the hook, so the shortening should help this also. Apparently the Brits like to use a "pulley rig" for surf fishing, and they have a way of fastening the baited hook to the sinker for casting aerodynamics, that releases on impact with the water. Breakaway tackle makes the hook and release device. I also keep some of that elastic thread with me to tie baits down when necessary.
Hope that helps.
Regarding the sardine: I agree with using elastic thread which works well. If you start with frozen sardine, the elastic thread is easier to put on and then it tightens as the sardine thaws. Be careful not to tie spinners directly to your main line when you freshwater fish. It will twist your line.
All knots need to be lubed (saliva) as you tighten them - if you don't you will get a weak knot with 'pig tails'.
Soft baits I always use plenty of elastic thread to whip it to the hook(s).
As has already been said - if you are getting pronounced 'helicoptering' shorten the link. Making it a lot longer could work as well, but you will get more tangles.
2 hook rig for the sardine, back hook as you have it, front hook latterly through the skull behind the eye or dorsal/ventraly(top to bottom) same area.
Quote from: smnaguwa on March 17, 2018, 01:29:43 PM
Regarding the sardine: I agree with using elastic thread which works well. If you start with frozen sardine, the elastic thread is easier to put on and then it tightens as the sardine thaws. Be careful not to tie spinners directly to your main line when you freshwater fish. It will twist your line.
what kind of elastic thread are you talking about?
http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/p/atlas-magic-thread-15atlutlmkthrdwhtlur/15atlutlmkthrdwhtlur?camp=CSE:DSG_pg46161_ecom_PLA_452&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7LyLh9T92QIVSFqGCh0UJAkWEAQYASABEgJbTfD_BwE
Quote from: Gfish on March 17, 2018, 02:24:40 PM
2 hook rig for the sardine, back hook as you have it, front hook latterly through the skull behind the eye or dorsal/ventraly(top to bottom) same area.
I have been trying that lately. A tandem hook rig with 2 snelled hooks on 30 lb monofilament. Unfortunately, the line on the second hook gets nicked by the first hook. Been hooking them above the lateral line before and after the dorsal fin. Will experiment more and see if the line nicking persist.. Does anyone know of a good solution i can freeze my sardines in so that they are firmer when i want to use them?
Get some bait brining salt. In a dry tray lay them out flat and salt one side. Turn them over and salt the other side. Let them sit at least 4 hours. They will toughen up good.
Quote from: handi2 on March 21, 2018, 03:27:30 PM
Get some bait brining salt. In a dry tray lay them out flat and salt one side. Turn them over and salt the other side. Let them sit at least 4 hours. They will toughen up good.
We just need to salt the sardines before freezing? No need to soak them in any solution? Will fish find them too "salty"? Does this also work for shrimp?
Quote from: Reel Beaker on March 21, 2018, 03:39:24 PM
We just need to salt the sardines before freezing? No need to soak them in any solution? Will fish find them too "salty"? Does this also work for shrimp?
Sometimes I just dowse bait with salt and throw it in the freezer. It is fine that way, but the salt draws out the liquids from the flesh, and it doesn't freeze, so it can get messy if it leaks in the freezer. The "right" way is to salt the bait and let it drain and dry for a couple days, before freezing. I guess if it is really done right, you don't need to freeze at all. I've never gone through with that, but you can find detailed instructions on the net. There is no need to clean the salt off for fishing; it likely helps carry the scent when it gets in the water. Hope that helps.
P.S. I use Kosher salt.
If you wanna get real elaborate about it, somethin that's been workin for me is to; make a threading needle outta stiff wire(e.g., clothes hanger), tie-on your hook and run the line from the "vent" up through the mouth. Secure the hook with a rubber band over the body and secure the line runnin out the mouth with another rubber band over the snout.
I actually do this with plastic ties insteada rubber bands and a small weight on the line, stuffed into the mouth and held in place by the snout tie. Also, I have a 1/2 x 1"circular flexible plastic "holder" that the hook goes through as well as the back plastic tie, situated on the belly. This is my trollin rig. I put each one in a zip-lock baggie, leader/swivel and all, and freeze 'em. Now the next thing is to figure out a way to keep 'em from twistin my main line so bad...
I would give ( bait tie ) a go - just put your bait on the hook and tie it on with bait tie - My prefer d bait to use here in NZ are pilchards cut in half with two hook rig - 7/0 at the bottom and a 5/0 above with lumo tubing between the two hooks - a short trace via a pulley rig and when casting the bottom hook is held by a bait release clip or impact shield clip and releases your bait when your sinker hits the water..
Rgds
Matt...
Another pic using the head .
The snapper over here love it. ;D
Go to the nearest sewing and fabric shop and buy elasticized thread. Use that to tie bait on. Dominick
Quote from: Mattman NZ on March 30, 2018, 06:14:19 PM
I would give ( bait tie ) a go - just put your bait on the hook and tie it on with bait tie - My prefer d bait to use here in NZ are pilchards cut in half with two hook rig - 7/0 at the bottom and a 5/0 above with lumo tubing between the two hooks - a short trace via a pulley rig and when casting the bottom hook is held by a bait release clip or impact shield clip and releases your bait when your sinker hits the water..
Rgds
Matt...
Why the difference in size for the 2 hooks? Does it matter?
I use the smaller hook at the top because most of my baits are thicker at the bottom and thinner at the top - and if im using a strip bait ie Kahawai or sea salmon both my hooks are nominally the same size - we call the top hooks on our rigs her in NZ the keeper hook.
Rgds
Matt...
if you are gonna use salt make sure it is not IODIZED salt or you too shall be sorry. Rock salt kosher salt are fine but the stuff in the round canister not so much
In answering some of your questions, for I assume that we are taking about surf casting with baits.
The biggest single benefit for keeping soft baits on the hook or hooks is bait elastic, and here there is a fair bit of science, sure you can use the very heavy stuff available for dress making, but there are much finer products available, whioch are surprisingly strong and very much less intrusive in the presentation. Cut of whole sections of sardine ar mounted on the hook, and then bound very securely onto the hook shank and the leader above the hook - including right up to the second sliding hook if you are using one.
Link below for one of the prime UK suppliers - I think they have a US outlets as well.
https://www.breakaway-tackle.co.uk/sea-fishing-accessories/bait%20elastic
The next challenge is to get the whole rg aerodynamic, and here, keeping the hook length shorter than the sinker length is critical, so that you end up using some sort of 'clipping' system. Simplest are the ones in the link below:
https://www.breakaway-tackle.co.uk/Terminal%20Fishing%20Tackle/Bait%20Clips%20and%20Impacts/bent%20rig%20clip
The clip is tied to the end of your sinker length nylon, and then the sinker mounted on the clip. Then the baited sardine, with the bottom hook being left proud is mounted on the side clip - this allows the baited hook length to carry the sinker on a slightly loose length of nylon. When casting the sinker with the bait still attached will carry the whole lot during the flight, and release on impact with the sea. More complex types are available, but these are also more secure during seriously powerful casting. Different options for different circumstances.
https://www.breakaway-tackle.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=192
The finer arts of surf fishing, even with small and soft baits like worms, clams and shrimps all tend to be variations on the theme above, just using more or less of the bait elastic. These systems avoid the need for more elaborate bait preparations, just use slightly defrosted frozen product.
Try using slightly heavier mono for your rigs, say 50lbs, the lines are slightly stiffer, and when lubricated will be less prone to curling up. The secret is to snug knots home before giving that final pull to secure the knot. Pulling knots tight when dry, and over other nylon generates heat from friction and deforms the nylon - hence the curly designs you have been perfecting.
Some future developments for you might be to google 'pulley rigs', 'pennel rigs', simple paternoster. These will lead you to other variations of sea angling bait rig styles. However, something I have found, is that fish are generally not impressed with complex rigs, so look to keep it simple.
Hope that helps
Cheers from sunny Africa
You have received some good suggestions above. One other option is using tougher bait, assuming its still effective for your target species. Some of the larger squids are very tough and can be fished unsalted and untied, if you can get them at a affordable price.
there are lots of bait presentations on this site:
http://www.sealine.co.za/view_topic.php?id=34386&forum_id=59
the very thin latexthread works very well for tying bait and it is easy to remove as well
Quote from: bill19803 on April 02, 2018, 04:47:05 PM
if you are gonna use salt make sure it is not IODIZED salt or you too shall be sorry. Rock salt kosher salt are fine but the stuff in the round canister not so much
mm... iodized salt is table salt right?
Quote from: Reel Beaker on April 05, 2018, 11:13:08 AM
Quote from: bill19803 on April 02, 2018, 04:47:05 PM
if you are gonna use salt make sure it is not IODIZED salt or you too shall be sorry. Rock salt kosher salt are fine but the stuff in the round canister not so much
mm... iodized salt is table salt right?
Table salt can be either iodized
or uniodized. I use kosher salt.
Quote from: Reel Beaker on April 05, 2018, 11:13:08 AM
mm... iodized salt is table salt right?
Most table salt in the US is iodized.
I prefer canning and pickling salt, Kosher salt is my #2 choice. I prefer the finer C&P salt over the slightly courser Kosher salt and do not like the much coarser rock salt all that well.
Mattman, could you show some more detail on that blue spider sinker? Thanks.
Hi Decker - they are known over here as Gemini Breakaway sinkers - I bought the Gemini System 100 mold and buy in the components. The tails can be short or long and the legs are ether standard or long and each leg can be a justed to snap open independently - I colour code mine foe easy weight reference ie blue = 3oz up to red = 4.5oz
Rgds
Matt...
Quote from: Mattman NZ on April 07, 2018, 06:51:16 PM
Hi Decker - they are known over here as Gemini Breakaway sinkers - I bought the Gemini System 100 mold and buy in the components. The tails can be short or long and the legs are ether standard or long and each leg can be a justed to snap open independently - I colour code mine foe easy weight reference ie blue = 3oz up to red = 4.5oz
Rgds
Matt...
You made these yourself? So professional...
It is a mould kit and components sold by a company called Gemini in the UK
http://www.gemini-tackle.co.uk/listings.asp?id=216
As said previously, there is a lot of good information on surf angling avaialble on UK web sites, they really have developed it to a fine art form.
Hope that helps
Jeri
Thanks, gents! Good stuff on that UK web site.
Surf fishing in New Jersey can require a lot of lead and long casts. If one can cut down the sinker weight, it allows the use of lighter rods. I have a few "sputnik" sinkers but haven't settled on a good one. My complaint about Breakaway sinker is that once the legs snap back for release, you can't get anchored again, and on each retrieve you have to reset the legs. I saw some sinkers on that site that have spring-steel legs, so that they can release and then snap back for anchoring. Would like to give that a try. http://www.gemini-tackle.co.uk/listings.asp?id=239 Also my impression is that these are designed primarily for stony bottoms, where New Jersey is pure sand.
Here in southern Africa, we use a sinker similar to a fixed wire sputnik - with the wires at the side, but replace the wires with very heavy nylon. These dig into sand, and can be moved, and then re-anchor, but breakaway type sinkers are designed primarily for sand and heavy currents. Google 'weed eater sinkers' - for pictures.
A point here, is that the nylon sinkers can be reset, but wired sinkers like breakaways have much better anchorage characteristics in heavy side current situations. A point with bait fishing, is to anchor the bait, and allow the scent to draw the fish to the anchored bait, rather than move the bait about looking for fish.
One way of cutting down the weight required to anchor baits, is to use thinner main line, which is where braid is superb at increasing anchorage of baits, as it cuts through any side current or tidal movement better than normal nylon of a similar strength.
Distance cast, just increases the problem of side current on line, so again braid provides a solution. This is what we have found in our fishery in Namibia, where we virtually have continual current situation, even on calm days. Braid down to 35lbs is used routinely with a 75lb casting leader, and holds well in mos currents even with big baits.
Hope that helps.
Jeri,
That is a very good point about using thinner braid to cut down the drag on the main line. Currently I use 20-30lb mono because it is easier on the thumb and easier to untangle a bird's nest. But I'm an experienced caster and should try braid.
I am going to try making a weed-eater sinker. http://www.basilmanning.co.za/grapnel-weedeater-sinker-14985.html I've also seen where NJ guys will put 3 galvanized screws into a pyramid sinker, and have not yet tried that.
Thanks,
/Joe